Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > the best spinner in the world... and the state of spinning today

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:once upon a time, when my horizons were small, and the total number of members on hop was less than my currrent member number(aaah the good old days when i went by mineiro biggrin ), i harboured a secret(hah!) desire and need to be 'the best spinner in the world'

this year, with organising uber events, travelling the world, and being generally reinspired to spin after a year of jugglefever i have come to the following conclusion:

there will never be a best spinner in the world.

i long ago stopped thinking it would be me ubblol but now have stopped thinking it could be anyone.

why?
well. theres a few obvious reasons.
spinning is not competitive, its contemplative. this means you will never be able to judge objectively who is 'better' at spinning. and long may it remain that way.

people have entirely different focuses(foci? focal points? crocuses?). how can you compare RHD to meghan? you can't. simple as that. unless meg spends a year on throws, and antti and tommi spend a year on contact(which, quite scarily, i think they have....). or.. glass and oli. eek! what kind of comparison is that?
and, most importantly, people who have different focuses have got soooooooooo good at the individual sections of what they do that in order to catch up you'd have to give up on another section, allowing some other single minded bugger to totally forge off into the future and blow you away when you look back at what you used to do. some good examples being wibblingmatt, rhd again, meenik hug, devkev, oli... the list is long and there are so many i have not named.

one of the great things about these people, and many of their contemporaries is the new respect that spinning gains within the performing and specifically object manipulation communities. no longer can a snooty juggler(or diabolist, or staff spinner about poi, etcetc) turn round and say 'huh, poi is not worth my time because i could learn everything in a day' (and beleive me, that is an accurate paraphrase from bristol juggling convention three years ago from a top juggler). it takes time and dedication, understanding and insight, openness and a willingness to share to become a top level spinner.

Some kind of conclusion? hmmm. well, er... i don't really have one, and i suppose i'm opening this up for some kind of discussion here. i don't want replies that say 'xxxxxxxxx is the best'. i want to know how people feel spinning is developing and has changed since you started. i want to know what you respect about people that inspire you, and how you feel that inspiration is good for the community at large. i want to know what you don't like about the new spinning community, and how it has been belittled by its incredible growth.

i also recently rebumped an awesome thread of NYCs about 'the london factor' (sorry, no link, cold fingers) i'd like to hear also what you think makes a successful spinning community and why some places deliver one style as opposed to another... er. that'll do for starters. i need a cup of tea.

i one last thing: I consider it an honour that many of the most innovative and exciting spinners in the world are my friends, and choose to spend some of their time sharing their skills and inspiring me to develop mine. thank you all( i think you know who you are).

Rob


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Dut
lurker
Location: Nashville, TN
Member Since: 22nd Mar 2002
Total posts: 380
Posted: Written by: mcp


digression: How is it that david elsewhere or kujo the flying water buffalo ever battle anyone? That surely can't work?



i have no idea who those people are, but imagine if they battle each OTHER!

total chaos... i'd assume.


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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted: Written by:

www.detoursvideo.com

If you go to the detours site, you can download some of Elsewhere's videos, just recently, he put up his Slurpee commercial and a link to an interview he did for 'Open Your Eyes' magazine.

The interview is here:

http://www.oyemag.com/elsewhere.html
br>
I have a lot of respect for Elsewhere, not only because he's damn good, but because his experience and views on dancing is much like mine.

Elsewhere~
 Written by:


I was really motivated to be a good dancer. I had seen this one video at a friends house. It had this one dancer, this Asian guy with a blue windbreaker. He was at a contest and was, by far, the most talented dancer there. He really struck a chord with me and influenced my dancing. He was sort of the basis for my style in the very beginning. Then I pretty muchits kind of whacked, but I copied what he had. But one of the things I noticed when I was trying to copy him was that I couldnt copy it exactly. No matter how hard I tried, I couldnt copy exactly what he did. At first it was a frustrating thing, but then as time went on I learned that, that was a good thing. That was actually me putting my own spin, my own style into it.

As time progressedprobably two or three yearsI realized that the overall consensus within the dance community was to be original. Being original is virtuous. Copying is a bad thing. The combination of realizing that originality was held in such high regard and the fact that I was failing at copying made a light bulb go off in my head. I decided I should just create my own style. More and more I just fed into that mentality and developed what I have now, which is, I think, a semi-original style. Of course nothing is purely original. You get influenced by a lot of things. One, obviously, is all the people in the breaking scene.





I really liked when he admitted he copied people, because that's what I did too. I used to watch videos of an old Pylon glowsticking video, and copy my moves. Of course now I know it's bad but like a certain saying goes, "Fake it, until you make it".

I 'faked' it, by copying figure 8, stomach traces and learning concepts from GS.C (like tossing, which never occured to me, actual tracing, like head trace/leg trace and stuff like stalls/kicks) But once I got to a point where I learned a lot and I didn't need to copy, I 'made' it, you know? Now I'm coming up with more original moves and combos now that I have that foundation.

None of us can truly be original either, because in some part of our glowsticking and especially stringing, we share same moves (figure 8, or spiral, stuff like that) It's the combos/and many other factors that can set us apart


 Written by:


How much do you practice?

Elsewhere~
Well its changed. When I started it was everyday, as much as I possibly could. I would come home, open the garage, and practice until it was dark. Then when I started college, it took less of a priority, but I was still doing it on a pretty regular basis. Nowadays I almost never set time aside to practice. I practice whenever I feel like it. Its spontaneous practicing. Whenever Im listening to music and I hear a good track, I get off my ass and practice in front of the mirror for a good two minutes. Right now its not a big priority, because I have a job now and Im doing other projects that kind of take away from my dancing.





I am also at the point where I do not regularly practice glowsticking anymore. I just randomly bust out while listening to a song, and very rarely do I take the time to crack fresh sticks and glowstick for a good hour or 2. I know for a fact Wes knows what I mean (cuz we both don't really practice anymore, at least not like we did back in the day), and probably even Dave/Paul.


 Written by:


With all the people and dance styles that have come before you, how do you stay original?

Elsewhere~
Thats hard. I think that in the very beginning when most people start, its kind of necessary to copy people. But once your dancing matures I think videos can be a little unhelpful. You can watch them over and over again so youre kind of brainwashing yourself into wanting to dance like that. Im not saying that videos are a bad thing. Im saying that they are good to some degree, but I just think that they are easily abused.





I also have to agree with this, because videos are only a small picture of what someone can do. I remember seeing Will's and Wes' videos but when I saw them for the first time at Halloween, they had way more moves and were much better than the videos. I believe videos only show a slice of what someone can do and they are defintely better in real life.

I also think videos are easily abused, because there are some people who just watch the same videos over and over and over. Skill stagnates and subconciously, they attempt to glowstick like the person in the videos. I get loads of random PMs, from people telling me how they watch my videos regularly and how they want to 'rave' like me. I think that watching videos too much is just not 'healthy' relative to your dance progression. Just goes to show that moderation is the best and that doing anything too much has consequences.

 Written by:


To what extent are your moves choreographed versus just letting it flow?

Elsewhere~
Its aboutI would say 75% all freestyle and 25% pre-choreographed. But the thing is a lot of my freestyle is in a sense pre-choreographed because even though Im doing things off the top of my head, theyre small routines that I already know how to do. For the most part when I do go out in a circle or during a contest, Ill usually think of two or three moves to do during that set. Ill have those moves like on standby in my brain. And then everything else in between those moves will just come off the top of my head.





How do you guys feel about this? I defintely have my 'combos' that I pull off exactly the same everytime. Like small setups inbetween my freestlye.

For example, trace, trace, trace, then a setup where I get both sticks in one hand, double helitoss, trace, trace, trace...etc..

Is this the case for you guys too? I really don't think it's possible to be 100% freestyle, without using a combo you use a lot or practice

Elsewhere~
 Written by:


The competitive aspect is good though. I like the fact that there is competition and battles, because that only makes you better. One of the big reasons I practiced really hard was for the sake of competition. I wanted to basically take everybody else out.





This of course, is coming from a bboyer, but what about glowsticking? Here's a hypothetical, what if glowsticking was competitve? Do you think we'd be better? Would more 'taunting' type moves come out? What do you guys think?

Thanks for reading this far (if you actually have ) please discuss

Chen

P.S. Basically what I'm asking is what you guys have to say (About IF there was competition in glowsticking/stringing how good would we be and about chereographed moves/freestyle)



David Elsewhere - Kollaboration 2001 video
http://erison.cs.nthu.edu.tw/video/kolla2001.wmv
br>http://www.nata2.info/humor/movies/kolla2001.wmv

Hope that helps smile


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:you like david elsewhere a bit too much don't you kael? wink

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:Notice I didn't type that. I just copy-pastaed it from somewhere else wink

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted: Written by: coleman


how did you arrive at the assumption that that situation was caused by the fact he didn't like your style of twirling josh?

that idiot could have had a million 'reasons' for doing something so rude, but i doubt it was because he didn't particularly enjoy your style or move selection.



yep - thats right I wasnt reading his mind when I made that comment. However as I'm not an outstanding kind of guy - I was really honestly just minding my own business and wasnt anywhere near him. I think the only plausible options when we consider motivation are ; completely random choice out of the blue, or that he chose me.

Could have been just cuz I was having so much fun? perhaps. There are defnitely people who think that people who spin only do so to show off as an ego booster- and thats the ego-driven atttitude that I believe some people do have when they twirl - and also the thoughts that people who are watching no doubt sometimes have.

<whinge>

I wish people would only look at me as another person loving their music and dancing to it, cuz thats what I'm doing when twirling most of the time - I just dance diferently to most people on the dancefloor smile

</w>


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Neser
Neser

member
Location: North Queensland
Member Since: 27th Dec 2005
Total posts: 63
Posted: Written by: GeoffonTour04



I only really practice with firechains so if people start getting a bit close (if they're doing it to annoy) I speed up to 'injury' level smile





*grins in high amusement*



Ah, I am soo tempted to do that sometimes. But then you got little whiny children (not literally, just they way they act) who reckon they'll complain to the police or some other authority figure because we have weapons. rolleyes



Personally, Im waiting for someone to be hit (out of their own stupidity though, those who like harrassing poi spinners namely) and try to tell an authority figure, at which point I would tell them in response: "Look, my safety TOLD you to watch out and keep your distance. You were bloody STUPID enough to walk into a spinner and not expect to be hit? Hey! Heres an idea! Lets walk into oncoming traffic and expect them to stop!" Wonder how many could argue with that.



Edit: Hmm just remembering the other day, a teacher had actually told some students off who were trying to grab/touch the spinning poi at the time... He actually told them it'd be their fault if they got hit. ubblol



~ Neser

EDITED_BY: Neser (1142580534)


Fuel your fascination, burn your desire and dance with flames

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted: Written by: KaelGotRice


Notice I didn't type that. I just copy-pastaed it from somewhere else wink



I think you protest too much.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Dut
lurker
Location: Nashville, TN
Member Since: 22nd Mar 2002
Total posts: 380
Posted:i protest that you're protesting his protestation!



ubbloco


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Cynicdave1
member

Member Since: 8th Apr 2005
Total posts: 36
Posted:David elsewhere does battle for a few people who are into 'rep', but once you get to his level, it's not really about battling. it's more about sessioning to please the elite dancer s amongst themselves. And let me tell you, if you are lucky enough to see these dance circles, they are btter than any crap MTV puts out. especially because the people in the circles are not just great dancers, but extra ordinarily talented and stylish in other ways too (some are fashion designers or work as choreographers and such), so they tend to dress in ways that make me feel uncool for not being creative enough. like i said once, it's like being on a set of a michael jackkon music video in the late 80s.

I'm the one who originally compiled the slate.com article and I find myself agreeing with those who i normally disagree. that's one of the dogmas of glowsticking.com -- no competitions. it stems from our experiences and frustrations in our own rave and clubbing scenes. i've seen people get very hurt from foolish things like stringing (an accidental whack to a girlfriend, some drunk clubbers, etc).


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Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:
"No crews, no battles..

we are just some friends
who likes to hang out

and do what we like to do."


Chicago 2002

- Wes, Myron, Bryan, Will, Wayne, Scootch

-----

love and light,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted: Written by: Cynicdave1


i've seen people get very hurt from foolish things like stringing (an accidental whack to a girlfriend, some drunk clubbers, etc).



that sucks frown

but how does it apply to not competeing with each other?

it sounds more like that depends on how busy the club where you're spinning at is, how attuned the spinner's spacial awareness is, and what type of people go to the night.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:hmmmm interesting thread, thank you all smile

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Mags The Jedi
Mags The Jedi

Fool
Location: Cornwall, UK
Member Since: 30th May 2004
Total posts: 2020
Posted:Nice thread Rob, thanks to you and everyone else who's described their feelings/experiences of the development of the Worldwide Spinning Community (if such a thing isn't just a product of our over-fertile imaginations. smile )

We've agreed that "best" is not possible, as the criteria for judging are intrinsically and subjectively personal, but that doesn't mean that "better" isn't possible. I think it's important that we all remember regularly that someone will ALWAYS be "better" than we are, and that should humble us and drive us forward.

To paraphrase Newton: If we spin faster, it's only cos we're spinning on the shoulders of giants.

wink

Love you all

devil


"I believe the cost of life is Death and we will all pay that in full. Everything else should be a gift. We paid the cover charge of life, we were born."

Bill Hicks, February 1988

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:I love finding people that are better than me( and there are lots:-)) because that means there is always something to learn and someone to learn it from; and that is exciting.

And I also love finding people who are not yet as skilled as I am; because then there is someone to teach, and that is also exciting!


It's a win// win situation, this beautiful spinning world...


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:good point mags.

biggrin


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Ronopotamus
Ronopotamus

addict
Location: Ireland, but floating around a...
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 412
Posted:"If you don't play to win, you can't lose"

a lovely something eimhin said the other day.

grouphug


Don't bolt your door with a boiled carrot...

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted::rolleyes: irish :rolleyes:

wink hug beerchug

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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TeknoTurtles_Fuzion
newbie

Member Since: 27th Mar 2006
Total posts: 3
Posted:"No crews, no battles..

we are just some friends
who likes to hang out

and do what we like to do."

Chicago 2002

- Wes, Myron, Bryan, Will, Wayne, Scootch

ok yea.....but it doesnt have to be like that..not saying i dont respect that cause i do.. but i mean here in san antonio...we have battles...we have crews...because its all just for fun and games....it helps u to challenge ur self it gives u a boost when ur practicing since u know ur having a battle coming up...u come up with stuff u would never imagine to have...witch makes it very exciting same as when u have that battle in front of AT LEAST 50...you get this indescribable rush...something like a rollercoaster or something like that..see it like this.
let say ur playing someone on a sports games or any other 2player game..after u lose or win...ur going to practice so next time yall play u will even be better and have more fun doing more advance stuff...u know

and well later on if u want to just stop battling well then just stop its not like anyone is forcing u anyways...but most likely after you stop battling...there will be so much skill in what u do cause of where battling has taking u...that possibilities are endless..
well yall might disagree with me but i had lotsf of battles and still to now..i have so much fun doing it or as simple as just strining in my room...its all good.



TT 3....the comeback

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:lol

amercan punctuation is much simpler than british...

T wink


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:That is where I'm getting at.



IMHO - battles are retarded and do more harm than good to the scene over here from my experience. And I can't really say I've seen any true master of poi who competes in a "battle".


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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shen shui
shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa
Member Since: 4th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1799
Posted:kael, are you saying that only non-masters battle? ooorrr that masters simply dont battle... there is no need..?

smile


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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_khan_
_khan_

old hand
Location: San Francisco, California, USA
Member Since: 17th Nov 2004
Total posts: 768
Posted:I think the true masters really have nothing to prove. meditate

taken out of context i must seem so strange
~ ani di franco

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:there are no masters, and so, they dont battle wink

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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godavidson
member
Location: Wellington
Member Since: 29th Mar 2006
Total posts: 29
Posted:I am quite surprised that no one has at all mentioned Circle of Light 2006 in this thread. Is this not a form of competition to find the best performer, be it with the aid of a video camera and editing? There must be some criteria in which entrants will be judged that could also relate to a live scenario. Plus it would have to be a series of events around the world to establish consistency as a mark of a "champion" spinner.

I only said that because I would want an excuse to travel the world doing what I love. I am not to shallow to admit that it would be nice to have traveling expenses paid for to "compete", though I would aim for forth in order to avoid publicity :-)

g


Tuesday, Frank Kitts Park, Wgtn

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:if you looked at the fuss over last years vid, it was almost cancelled, then brought back as a compilation.

the point of the col series is inspirational spinning anyhoo


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted:I agree, i think that the cols are meant for inspriation overall. I'm guessing that the origional motivation for making it into a competition was to encourage people to make the effort and enter their very best.

Although its now been made into a competition again, for slightly different reasons, col2005 showed that people will still do their best and make a good effort with or without the competition aspect of it. I think that although there is a huge prize for the next col, its main aim is still as a compilation than a competition.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Meenik
Meenik

enthusiast
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Member Since: 7th Nov 2001
Total posts: 272
Posted:I think that saying not-battling is better than battling is the same as saying this spinner is better than that spinner.

A group of people "battling" for beautiful reasons is a beautiful thing. It's not the activity that decides the motives in people's hearts.

We "battled" at UberPoi in Scottland, and it was one of the funnest, most loving poi related community activities I've ever participated in. This is because the community was very supportive of each other, and Glass led the battle with great skill, making it easy for people to see the beauty of it.

People do this with everything: They get the motive mixed up with the medium. They condemn religion because of the hypocracy, for instance, when the religion isn't the problem, the hypocracy is.

...although I still shy away from competitions myself :P

-n


"They're interdimensional fractal intelligences. That's why they wear funny shoes."

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ado-p
ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland
Member Since: 13th May 2004
Total posts: 3882
Posted:Uberbattle ubblove

never did i feel so free, enthusiastic and badass all at the same time.

smile


Love is the law.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted: Written by: KaelGotRice


IMHO - battles are retarded and do more harm than good to the scene over here from my experience.



Hrm... I've never seen any of the negativity from battling you've described. You must be thinking of a different community. ubbangel


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:i recon we should go for real battles, we can even go for varieties, morning star verses nine section whip... bike chain verses rope dart...

or is that a bit negative? ubblol

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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