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Forums > Social Discussion > Pizza tycoon building no-sin city

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:So... Tom Monahan, the uber-Catholic former owner of Domino's Pizza, is going to build a city in Florida based around the Catholic faith. There would be no abortion offered in town and drug stores would not offer contraception of any sort (condoms, pills, etc.). There would also be no pornography available, either on TV or in stores, and I imagine a number of other stuff (no liquor stores on Sunday, etc.).

On the one hand, I think people should be able to live as they wish and maybe it's a good thing that if people this fundamentalist want to go off and build a commune and mind their own business maybe it's better.

On the other hand, I do wonder about the legality of reversing state and federal law legalizing abortion. I also wonder if this wouldn't be a good time to start a huge drive among, say, 1000 or so gay couples to move in since they can't discriminate on housing... devil

CNN.com: Pizza Tycoon Building No-Sin City

Written by: CNN.com
New Florida town would restrict abortion

Domino's founder building community around Catholic university

NAPLES, Florida (AP) -- If Domino's Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan has his way, a new town being built in Florida will be governed according to strict Roman Catholic principles, with no place to get an abortion, pornography or birth control.

The pizza magnate is bankrolling the project with at least $250 million and calls it "God's will."

Civil libertarians say the plan is unconstitutional and are threatening to sue.

The town of Ave Maria is being constructed around Ave Maria University, the first Catholic university to be built in the United States in about 40 years. Both are set to open next year about 25 miles east of Naples in southwestern Florida.

The town and the university, developed in partnership with the Barron Collier Co., an agricultural and real estate business, will be set on 5,000 acres with a European-inspired town center, a massive church and what planners call the largest crucifix in the nation, at nearly 65 feet tall. Monaghan envisions 11,000 homes and 20,000 residents.

During a speech last year at a Catholic men's gathering in Boston, Monaghan said that in his community, stores will not sell pornographic magazines, pharmacies will not carry condoms or birth control pills, and cable television will have no X-rated channels.

Homebuyers in Ave Maria will own their property outright. But Monaghan and Barron Collier will control all commercial real estate in the town, meaning they could insert provisions in leases to restrict the sale of certain items.

"I believe all of history is just one big battle between good and evil. I don't want to be on the sidelines," Monaghan, who sold Domino's Pizza in 1998 to devote himself to doing good works, said in a recent Newsweek interview.

Robert Falls, a spokesman for the project, said Tuesday that attorneys are still reviewing the legal issues and that Monaghan had no comment in the meantime.

"If they attempt to do what he apparently wants to do, the people of Naples and Collier County, Florida, are in for a whole series of legal and constitutional problems and a lot of litigation indefinitely into the future," warned Howard Simon, executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union of Florida.

Florida Attorney General Charlie Crist said it will be up to the courts to decide the legalities of the plan. "The community has the right to provide a wholesome environment," he said. "If someone disagrees, they have the right to go to court and present facts before a judge."

Gov. Jeb Bush, at the site's groundbreaking earlier this month, lauded the development as a new kind of town where faith and freedom will merge to create a community of like-minded citizens. Bush, a convert to Catholicism, did not speak specifically to the proposed restrictions.

"While the governor does not personally believe in abortion or pornography, the town, and any restrictions they may place on businesses choosing to locate there, must comply with the laws and constitution of the state and federal governments," Russell Schweiss, a spokesman for the governor, said Tuesday.

Frances Kissling, president of the liberal Washington-based Catholics for a Free Choice, likened Monaghan's concept to Islamic fundamentalism.

"This is un-American," Kissling said. "I don't think in a democratic society you can have a legally organized township that will seek to have any kind of public service whatsoever and try to restrict the constitutional rights of citizens."

(Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.)



-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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FireByNite
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

FireByNite

Are you up for it??
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 349
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning

I also wonder if this wouldn't be a good time to start a huge drive among, say, 1000 or so gay couples to move in since they can't discriminate on housing... devil



go on - I dare you to start this biggrin
I'd help but am not gay & am half way around the world


Are you up for it?
wink;)

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NOn


activist for HoPper liberation.
Location: ffidrac

Total posts: 1643
Posted:yeah i would wonder about the legality of it, and how he would enforce his preferred laws? what if someone started trading in blackmarket condoms?... will they not let non-catholics in? do you have to have papers proving your catholicism, and attend confession regularly or get kicked out?... actually what would there be left to confess about...?

Besides, it's already been done, they call it Vatican City.... biggrin


Aurinko freedom agreement reached 10th Sept 2006

if it makes no sense that's because it's NOn-sense.

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Umm... so what? Seeing as how you could just walk a couple of hundred feet in any direction and be in an area that DOES allow all of the state-wide legalities, I don't see it being an issue. I wonder if it would be legal for them to do this... I mean you have neighborhood partnerships that supposedly can force you to do certain things (have the same kind of mailbox as everyone, have a mandatory light fixture installed in your yard, etc. etc.). How far can they really go. I know in my area (Ohio) you now have neighborhood bans on sexual offenders. Why not gays, hell, even blacks or whatever else you want?

I know next to zilch about property law, but I wonder... Maybe warning signs should be posted at the city limits. warning: you are entering a Christian fundamentalist zone. Abandon hope all who enter here.


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: i8beefy2

How far can they really go. I know in my area (Ohio) you now have neighborhood bans on sexual offenders. Why not gays, hell, even blacks or whatever else you want?



Well, there's housing laws.

I actually support this community.

Look, we can't change these people, so if they want to wall themselves off and call themselves perfect...great.

Can't wait to see their teenage pregnancy rate. frown


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:It's kind of cute... first people go to America from Britain (and anywhere else) to be able to practice their faith in freedom. Then follows lots of politics and confusion about which fates and beliefs should be practiced, until Mr. Domino-Pizza (which I like, by the way... it'll be quite ironic knowing I'll support Catholic Village with my double-decadence cravings!!) decides it's time to NOT embrace religious freedom anymore and make his own community where things are restricted again.

I suppose if it really was illegal you could sue and win, and they wouldn't be able to found it. But as long as everyone lives there by their free choice I think it's fine. Of course, this will change as soon as children of catholic adults are involved. My worry is not only that they're raised to catholic faith without alternatives, but that they leave the place and die within a week because they think drug dealers are selling them candy or something...

but then, they're not really supposed to leave, are they? It'll be interesting seeing the first generation of Catholic-town offspring reaching their teens and getting "outside television" when their parents aren't watching, along with all the other rebel stuff they'll do smile

It's a bit like "the Village"...


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I want to move there and exploit teenagers who need abortions! biggrin [/sarcasm]

To be honest I hardly care. It's only a few thousand people, and it's in America.

*Goes back to living his life*

rolleyes


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Skulduggery
GOLD Member since Aug 2004

Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales

Total posts: 8428
Posted:Didn't Mr Disney do this kind of thing already. He built a town and had seperate rules from the state that everyone moving in had to live by. I think it only would work if no one is allowed to buy their own property within the town and it is all on a rented basis. That way all the terms of living there would be signed and agreed to in a tenancy agreement.

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning

Can't wait to see their teenage pregnancy rate. frown



I think you left out the word 'Illegitimate' wink

As for banning pornography, Hey, they'd have to ban the internet... The University would be a bit, well, Sh!t without it...

IMO, It's like one guy buying himself a Huge house, and letting whoever he wants live there. Just like many people would vet a lodger coming into their house.

I Think this could be an interesting experiment. 17th century america, anyone?


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Is there anything stopping you handing out porn in the streets?
Sounds like I have a future holiday planned wink

I agree with the doc on this - if they're the kind of people who feel the need to live somewhere like this, then I think it's better for everyone else.
In a way it's kind of a shame that anyone feels they have to move there though.


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Domino
SILVER Member since May 2004

UnNatural Scientist - Currently working on a Breville-legged monkey
Location: Bath Uni or Shrewsbury, UK

Total posts: 757
Posted:Mate of mine said something similar about The Rapture, God's One True People are taken from the Earth, leaving the rest of us to get on with life...

Give me a lever long enough and a place to stand and I can beat the world into submission.

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Interesting...however the town claims otherwise.

http://www.avemaria.com/news/pressRelease.asp?inc=PR03022006
br>
For what it's worth.


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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston

Total posts: 2666
Posted:No condoms? Yuk no thank you you wouldnt be able to move without bumping into an STD

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:or a baby

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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TheBovrilMonkey
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England

Total posts: 2629
Posted:Yeah, but it'd be a whole town running on proper traditional values, which means no-one will even think about sex until they're married.

Therefore, there'll be no STDs or teenage mums, because we all know it'll work exactly how they want it to with no complications umm


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:ditto

What Bov said. No Sex before marriage = no transmission of STDs (if someone's a virgin, it's pretty certain that they'll be infection free) or [censored] Children (children born out of wedlock, or illegitimate, for those who know not the proper meaning of the word [censored])

But, as happened in many older civilizations, Men can't stop thinking with their whatsits, rape young women, get them pregnant, or young girls (and boys) decide to go against their faith and sleep with their partner anyway.

Brilliant Ideals, good luck getting it to work..


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:my sister is a censored i have great funn calling her one all the time lol

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: Leaning_Towards_Corruption

Written by: Doc Lightning


Can't wait to see their teenage pregnancy rate. frown



I think you left out the word 'Illegitimate' wink

As for banning pornography, Hey, they'd have to ban the internet... The University would be a bit, well, Sh!t without it...




No. Just have filtration software.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Eera
BRONZE Member since May 2003

old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Sounds like a pretty boring place to me. Let's hope the TV is good as you'll have nothing else to do of an evening.

There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land

Total posts: 475
Posted:Wait. a catholic university?

Wouldnt that make all of their degree's invalid?


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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Tao Star


Tao Star

Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 1662
Posted:sounds awful to me. and kind of dangerous...i mean, i'm bumping in to people all the time who disagree with my beliefs, live in a way i think is wrong or actively hate me for what i believe in. that's part of life as far as i'm concerned, it reminds me how precious my beliefs are to me and that i'm allowed to express them. it also reminds me that i'm not more right than other people and makes me challenge what i think.

being seled off in a little bubble makes people believe they're the only ones in the world, and the thing is you cna't stay there foreve can you? or maybe you can. but i think being challenged is pert of growth...so good luck to them, if they want to just hang around together all the time.

sounds like a bath going cold to me.


I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.

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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land

Total posts: 475
Posted:I think this pizza man is living in a dream world.

This city of his is going to be Crawling with sin.


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear

Total posts: 4693
Posted:yeah, i mean think about it, they'll only be eating pizza! how gluttonous will everyone be! oh, sorry, not the topic of the thread wink :P

the real question is, will dominos be the only fast food allowed?


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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wonderloey


wonderloey

enthusiast
Location: Melbourne - home of pirates

Total posts: 255
Posted:Whatever floats your boat..

Sounds like the kind of place that nightmares are made of...

You can leave, but you can never go home... confused


"You've gone from Loey the Wonder Lesbian to everyone wondering if you are a lesbian." - Shadowman

Yesterday is yesterday. If we try to recapture it, we will only lose tomorrow.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Anyway, this is why I won't buy Domino's.

I'm not going to tell you what to do and I'm not going to tell you what not to do, but...

Just remember, although Monahan no longer own's Domino's, he still has a lot of stock in the company and every time you buy something from Domino's a few cents of your money go into Mr. Monahan's pockets.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:slightly off topic but along similar lines i watched a program about evangelists in UK schools. a multi millionaire car dealer had funded a number of schools in the UK along his christian beliefs, so much so that in science lessons they did not teach the kids about Darwin theory and enforced the belief that the world was created in 6 days eek


after months of research they only found 2 ex-teachers who would speak out against these schools, one remarked about the constant bible bashing and indoctrination, another commented on the fact that teachers where not recruited for their skills but because of their beliefs.

they show'd a parent teacher meeting and the parents where up in arms about this yet the teachers played it down. the familys and more importantly the children where helpless as these where the only schools in the catchment area and could not send their children to other schools because of the local councilors policy.

the schools themselves where VERY strict, one boy they interviewed was permanently expelled because he smoked, not on school property or in school time but out of school and away from the school.

everyone has the right to their own beliefs don't get me wrong but to force your belief on others is wrong and alienating and distancing yourself from socioty i feel this is no better than a cult


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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee

Total posts: 607
Posted:...wait, then you don't think that other schools should have lessons that teach only Darwin's theory, and enforce the belief that the world was created by chance billions of years ago?

Getting together with a bunch of like minded people to start a community is a time-honored tradition that has been very popular and has worked reasonably well. Some past examples are:

The Pilgrims in America
The Mormons' move to Salt Lake City
Monasteries (Christian and otherwise)
Hippie Communes
Nudist Colonies
Gay Bars

If a bunch of Catholics want to get together and start a town, I have no problem with that. I may happen to almost completely disagree with the values of Catholicism, and the way in which they will be living, but that is true whether they are all living together or not.

In America, people are generally free to live out their beliefs, and to hang out with people that they like. Communities that violate the norms of the outside world (nudist colonies, monasteries) are usually tolerated as long as they don't have lots of guns. Catholicism is a well established way of life, and there have been plenty of towns in the past that followed Catholic values.

Of course, as Stout pointed out, the idea that this man is building a Catholic town that will outlaw contraceptives is a myth, so our discussion is academic. http://www.avemaria.com/news/pressRelease.asp?inc=PR03022006
br>
And no, DoktorSkell, degrees from Catholic Schools are not "invalid" any more than heart surgery from Catholic hospitals are "invalid."


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Sym
BRONZE Member since Sep 2004

Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk

Total posts: 1858
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917

...wait, then you don't think that other schools should have lessons that teach only Darwin's theory, and enforce the belief that the world was created by chance billions of years ago?



rolleyes

here we go again....


Actually I'll be interested to see what they have to do about that. Case law says that ID cannot be taught in schools as science, so, if they want to teach ID at all what are they going to do?

Also, will the rest of the science classes follow the same level of accuracy? Will the flat earthers and young earthers be out in force in the other areas of the class room? ubbloco


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: Patriarch917

...wait, then you don't think that other schools should have lessons that teach only Darwin's theory, and enforce the belief that the world was created by chance billions of years ago?




The statement, whether meant in jest or not, is meaningless since no theory teaches that evolution occurs by "chance." Nor has any theory proposed that the world or universe happened by chance.

I do wonder whether they will try to have community public schools teach evolution or creationism (or "ID"). Such a policy (the latter, not the former) would clearly be illegal.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:must resist a rant....................Catholicism has much to answer for............... the Spanish inquasition, the witch hunts, the great crusades. the attitude " it's gods work" bull sh*t!!!! it's someone's own ideology of a eutopian society under one rule.



(sorry for spellings but i tryed to correct them)


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:How many years ago was that? You're not telling me you're blaming the Catholics that are alive today for the Spanish inquisition?!?!?

If you think like that, then you as a Brit have to answer for quite a deal of slavery, colonialism, imperialism and driving other races to extinction. But hey, that's different, isn't it?

Much as I think Catholic Town is a silly idea, it's what they believe in, and at least it's a peaceful act of retreating, and not going around forcing everyone to have a society like the one they want in their towns.

*insert frown at how once again I feel I have to defend a group I don't agree with because of somebody's point of view*


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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