According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by: Patriarch917
I assume you are speaking to onewheeldave's logic. However, it is also true that by the principles of humanism, it is theoretically possible for the needs and interests of humans to change so as to make rape legal. That's the whole point of moral relativism: there are no such things as moral absolutes.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Written by: Patriarch917Written by: jeff(fake)Written by: Patriarch917
If onewheeldave is right, then you have the ability to create your own morality. However, he seems also to suggest that the people of South Dakota may also create their own morality that is different from yours. Even if you strongly believe what you say, surely you cannot fault them for deciding to create their morality in a different way?
By your logic if the government of South Dakota were to declare rape legal then it would be moral.
I assume you are speaking to onewheeldave's logic. However, it is also true that by the principles of humanism, it is theoretically possible for the needs and interests of humans to change so as to make rape legal. That's the whole point of moral relativism: there are no such things as moral absolutes.
Written by: Sethis
Patriarch, you're doing it again. You've seen superficial similarities between my position and a position that you have come across when talking to other people.
You have then assumed that my argument is the same, because it is similar. It isn't. You're arguing against some other people you've heard/spoken to, not me.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: Sethis
[the issue in this topic is...] whether the government of South Dakota has made a reasonable decision. This isn't a thread about whether abortion is justifiable. I repeat, if you want to argue about it (and that goes for everyone else too) then bump/start a thread on it.
Written by: jeff(fake)
In an general sense morality is relative. However, for arbitary reasons human beings world wide share an almost identicle fundemental system of emotions and values. A Chinaman and an African can both agree that murder and rape are generally wrong for instance. We base our moral system on these values. Thus morality is in a specific sence absolute accross the human race.
Written by: jeff(fake)
Now it is theoretically possible that a subspecies of human could exist whose fundemenal values are completely different, in which case things we regard as morally wrong might not be for them. However such a group doesn't exist.
Written by: jeff(fake)
…I am perfectly justified in applying my moral standards to the senate of South Dakota and their immoral ruling. For all human societies currently in existance outlawing abortian is never justified.
Written by: Patriarch917
The best data that we have indicated that the majority of people in South Dakota hold a particular view on the morality of abortion that is different from jeff’s
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: jeff(fake)
Like I said before, by your logic if they voted rape legal you would consider it moral. People don't choose their morality, they are born with it hardwired into their brain, and the people of South Dakota are no different to the people in North Dakota or Britain.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"
^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^
Written by: FireTom
As fo the rest I have nothing more to add, as my points seem to get ignored anyways...
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
Written by: jeff(fake)
Humans (thats us) have a set of needs and emotions which are hardwired into our brains. With the exception of sociopaths and some of the brain damaged, this is undeniable. We all retract our hand from fire and we find suffering unpleasant.
Now we base our morality on trying to minimise the things which cause suffering. Since those things are common to us all, we all share a common morality.
(...) but forcing a woman to give birth to it when she does not wish to causes her to suffer. Thus their desicion is immoral as it increases human suffering, despite what Patriarch or the senate of South Dakota may think.
(...)If you hold the view of morality which Patriarch is argueing then the Holocaust was a moral action.
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: Patriarch917
Most of the arguments in favor of killing children in the womb are also based on theories that something about them makes them "less human" because they are young, immature, not as smart, feel less pain, etc. Whether these things are enough to take away their right to live is a personal choice that one can make. From a perspective of religious humanism and moral relativism, however, one cannot insist that South Dakota does not have the same right to choose their own morality.
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Written by: Patriarch917
@pounce: Reconsider the substantial points made by Sethis, Firetom, onewheeldave, and others, and I'm sure that you will revise your assessment that this thread is a "debate" between any two people.
I was always scared with my mother's obsession with the good scissors. It made me wonder if there were evil scissors lurking in the house somewhere.
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons for you are crunchy and good with ketchup.
**giggles**
Written by: stone
To me, the abortion debate is just more of the Christian double standard on morality. Like changing the intention in the bible from though shall not kill, to though shall not murder, when it suits them. Furthermore, do any of you guys, protesting about the new laws, ever consider protesting against about capital punishment or sending kids off to invade oil rich countries etc. My guess is probably not.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: Stone
I agree FireTom, there is not much room for hard wiring morals in deterministic brain. The only thing hardwired in the brain is survival, the rest are learned responses.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
Written by: jeff(fake)
I quite agree. I've been trying to answer all the points every one has made but the thread just seemed to get taken over by Patriarch's obsession with my views on the origins of morality.
[
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: FireTom
but I emphasise that society has no right to intervene into the families or personal rights.
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
Written by: jeff(fake)
It's best to say that most people are pro-choice for a variety of rational reasons, or pro-life for irrational ones.
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
Written by: Kyrian
Or, what logical step between zygote and self-awareness am I missing, thats relavent to this day and age? (Medical intervention is a confusing one at this time, and will only continue to be.)
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Are you up for it?
;)
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Written by: myself
I emphasise that society has no right to intervene into the families or personal rights
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Using the keywords [south dakota outlaw * abortion] we found the following existing topics.