After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
Written by: Lurch
they aren't super human creatures to do our bidding. But they are trained, and some of them are very well trained, up to and beyond military training in various tactics.
Written by: Lurch
you shouldn't ask them to take away one of the most important and useful tools they have to protect you and themselves.
Written by: Lurch
You guys ask them to save your life, get into fights for you, take the rapists, the murders, and the drug dealers off the streets, and you're going to let the bad guys be better armed than the police? WHY?!?
Written by: Lurch
I know for a fact they are required nearly everywhere before you can apply for a concealed permit.
Written by: Lurch
They are not idiots, and they are not your suicide puppets to dive into a gunfight to protect you.
Written by: Lurch, Unknown source
But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred in any given year.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
Written by:
Police don't need guns when the population has no access to them either.
Written by:
You actually think a police officer would be within his rights to say "I'm sorry you're getting mugged with a knife, but it's not my duty to risk my life so I'll just stand over here."??
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
the best smiles are the ones you lead to
Written by:
Say I have a taillight on my car out, like a couple weeks ago. I get pulled over. The cop comes up to me to ask for my license and registration. Sure, I might be a dangerous nutcase or something-- but how the hell does that justify the fact that this guy next to my car is carrying a -lethal- weapon ready for use? The sole function of that gun is to kill people-- that's specifically what they're designed for. Since when does 'serve and protect' also mean 'and maybe KILL YOU' ? There's no justification for police to carry lethal weapons. They are civilians, and they're here to help, not to hurt anybody. It's not like they even -want- to use them. It makes absolutely no sense. I -like- the police, being able to dial 911 when you catch someone breaking into your house is a beautiful thing-- but the guns still make me cringe.
Written by:
In my own state, the biggest city has a population of about 1 million-- even there, they had teams of police in riot gear, with armored trucks, fully outfitted with things like AK-47s. They also bring that stuff out whenever there is a protest, or on various other days of the year. And then they make sure to send out reporters to get as many clips as possible of passersby on the street saying things like "Oh it all makes me feel so much safer!"
Written by:
Plus why is it necessary to use the 'wolves' own tactics against them? Nonlethal weapons work just fine there
Written by:
why is it fine for a policeman to shoot some poor drunk shmuck for reaching for their wallet in a suspicious way, yet somebody who commits rape or murders only gets quietly led away if he keeps his hands in the air, and then maybe gets a few years in jail?
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by: Lurch
My defence of them is because I prefer to defend my right to protect myself. And I will defend the right of the police to protect themselves, and the public as well. I don't see how either of those are unreasonable.
Written by: Lurch
If you're trying to deal with someone who is drunk, and combatent, will not listen to your directions, and they try and flee, or suddenly reach for something in their pocket. Is it safer for you to assume 'oh its just a wallet' or 'he has a weapon'? It comes down to training, and common sense, and common sense is not so common anymore sadly. Don't put all the blame on the officers for someone elses stupidity
Written by: Lurch
3 retention features that all have to be disengaged before the weapon can be drawn, and then there are usually at least one or more features on the weapon itself before it can be fired.
Written by: Lurch
I agree, and I'll gladly you give me my gun once you take all the guns away from the criminals first.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Written by:
Strange... I've seen this happen once, and seen it on TV more often than that. If there is a drunk person resisting arrest, then the officer restrains them with a wrist lock or similar before slapping on the cuffs. If the guy reaches inside his coat, then he gets a baton to the wrist, and is then taken down by one or more officers. I don't see where guns need to figure into the equation.
Written by:
Strange, all I've ever seen was a strap across the butt of the gun, then a safety catch on the gun itself... When it's an officer holding a rifle/shotgun then it's just the catch.
*genuine polite interest, not attacking you* : What are the others?
Written by:
I think the entire point of what people are saying is that if there was tighter gun control, then you would never NEED to defend yourself with a gun. All you'd ever be commonly facing would be a knife/other melee weapon, for which there are plenty of defences, the vast majority of them non-lethal.
Written by:
Pray tell, how are we supposed to tell whether you're a criminal or not? The guns need to be taken away from everybody, because criminals aren't obvious and it's not a career path.
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Written by: Lurch
I'm not arguing about the 'rent-a-cops.' To be honest they scare me too, as many of them are doing that because they couldn't make it on the police force.
Written by: Lurch
And the worst thing a police officer can do is back down and give up. Whatever force the badguy presents they must return, equally or greater than. To ask anything less of them is foolhardy.
Written by: Lurch
during a traffic stop when the suspect walked back to his car, grabbed a rifle, and opened fire..
Written by: Lurch
Many officers are shot with their own weapon, which is saddening, and yet another reason you guys will probably add to your drive to disarm them.
Written by: Lurch
Making more gun laws will do nothing but remove guns from law abiding perfectly healthy good people.
Written by: Lurch
I don't fit the profile of a violent criminal, but you don't want to get into a profiling debate..
It is illegal for a felon to possess a firearm in this country. How about we start there?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
everyone's unique except me
Written by: Nephtys
I don't understand the focus on accidental gun deaths, are non-accidental gun deaths less bad?
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
Written by: _kevlarsoul_
I think that disillusionment with the police is at the heart of the initial post of this thread.
Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Written by: Sethis
I know I feel very intimidated by police carrying either pistols or automatic rifles... It would be so easy to accidently kill someone. Why take the risk? And if we've outlawed capital punishment, then surely there is no ethical justification for killing crimminals at the scene of the crime, with no trial?
What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)
Owner of Dragosani's left half
Written by:
So why aren't you more scared by the number of armed civilians out there? Surely that's even worse than semi-trained mall cops?
Written by:
I think it would be a fair statement to say he wouldn't have had that gun if he'd been in the UK. People don't carry weapons around in their cars or trucks here. It's just not done (except by serious criminals). If there is almost no risk of someone reaching under the seat and pulling out a Mag 50 AE or something stupid like that, then the cop doesn't need a gun in response.
Written by:
Lurch, I'd like a response (if you care to give one) about the issue I raised earlier about escalation - surely readily available guns to anyone who doesn't already happen to have a criminal record is the main reason the police in the US have to carry guns?
I think that examples like the one you gave of police being beaten up on the wrong side of a chainlink fence are hardly as common as police drawing their weapons. The main reason police fire their weapons is in response to someone with a weapon pointed at them.
Written by:
The reason I keep bringing up gun control is that I think it is inseperable from the issue of arming police. I believe that, particularly in the US, if there were tighter controls on who could have a gun on both sides (so specific, highly trained units - like swat teams), there would be less gun related deaths of innocent people, less hold-ups, less car-jacks, less stuff like drive-bys (you ever tried doing a drive-by with a knife? Not easy!).. And I realise gun control is an issue many americans shy away from talking about, but seriously, you guys are 150 years behind the rest of the developed world in that respect. It's like the wild west never ended, it just moved into the suburbs. Hence the need for quick-drawing sherrifs.
Written by:
I'm using stats from 2001 because that's the only year I could quickly find all the data for both countries on:
US: civilians allowed to own firearms
total population: about 281,500,000 (based on 2000 census)
gun deaths: 29,573 --> approx. 0,01% of total population
Netherlands: civilian gun ownership not allowed
total population about 16,000,000
gun deaths: 89 --> approx. 0,0006% of total population
Written by:
Sounds to me like you don't trust them in their training or ability to follow it through. Surely before we arm police, we must be sure they're not going to go out trigger-happy killing anyone who looks at them funny. So when you, an ordinary (I'm assuming ) guy goes out into the street and feels intimidated at being close to this person who is supposedly responsible and trustworthy enough to be given the power to instantly kill someone should the situation merit it, I think there's obviously, deep down in your beliefs(and mine), something wrong with the institution which has given this guy his gun.
Written by:
There are situations in which the police needs to have guns but it is simply irresponsible to have police marching around with automatic weaponry all the time in crowded places which seems to be coming into style in Britain now. Are they really going to open fire with so many civilians around? If not then why arm them in the first place?
Written by:
Just to clarify, you mean automatic weapons, as in machine guns right..not automatic (i.e. not revolvers) pistols.
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Ancient wiseman say "It is very strange person, who, when left alone in room with teacosy, does not try it on"
Written by:
In this country, the NEED to own a gun just doesn't exist, due to the fact that only criminals have them
#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored
Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals
Using the keywords [police lethal weaponry] we found the following existing topics.