Forums > Social Chat > Thought of the day....

Posted: 26th Apr 2001
Supes,I agree there are some serious problems with out prison system- though I'm not sure what the answer to it would be. I'm not a fan of capital punishment, though i do believe that if you wrongfully take a life you forfit your right to life. This is real gray area for a lot of people because its tough to draw difinative boundries as to what is fair and unfair. And who are we to decide the way a nation should act. I think that Immoral people deserve to be treated as such, but in the end- everybody gets their's. I suppose I could talk for hours on this,but I think other people will be doing that for me... You may have just opened a huge can of worms my friend, hope you're ready for it. N8.------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 26th Apr 2001
Hey Supe, Wow. This one strikes home for me. I know you didnt mean anything offensive by that, so I wont take it that way. I was a criminal several times myself once. A plague to 'society' It does cost quite a bit, but personally, I believe this isnt the issue. Do you know how many people get arrested each year for marijuana? A hell of a lot. Obviously our elected officials dont care about the cost per individual. In sunny Florida, we our governor is pro-prisons/jails, and is cutting back on funding for drug programs. The cost of most public drug programs per year is 1/5 of what is cost for a cell per individual. And it does so much better. I believe that if we are going to change anything, first we need to eliminate the politics. In our society, I dont see that happening. I agree that criminals should pay. But I also believe that so many of our laws are completely bogus and immoral. Its a difficult subject to come to a head on . Sorry for going buck! I used to be of the same mind until I became one myself and realized that I was a person. ------------------~I dont care if they eat me alive, Ive got better things to do than survive. ~Ani

Wow

Posted: 26th Apr 2001
Sorry, but that sounds like something my racist redneck brother would come up with.As Shibaki said, you may not have meant it to be offensive, but im sure many people would!I myself have never been in prison, never would like to, but im sure its not a can of laughs, Id say a lot of people would prefer to be running the treadmill than where they are.And what about wrongfully convicted? Just burn them all?Just my opinion but i think this is a really unappropriate discussion for a "home of poi" discussion board.

- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

Posted: 26th Apr 2001
Danger Will Robinson, Danger! Danger!That would be my answer to the can that just got opened.I am biased and jaded on this issue, to an extreme degree. I have been raped and beaten badly, twice. Both times I watched the assholes walk due to glitches in the legal system (I was a college student alone at night therefore where is the witness to prove it was rape? Oh gee I don't know..could it be the beaten face???) and I was in a really bad relationship where I was beaten badly repetitively, but when I pressed charges nothing happened..even though he was on parole, which I didn't know about until after I left him!!! Then one of my best friends went to jail because she was with someone who had pot in the car she was riding in. I say legalize pot. No problem.As for prisoners rights...I live between Attica and Albion Penatentaries (Albion is the female equivalent to Attica). A good portion of the population here works at the prisons. Recently they took away the prisoners cable television, they can no longer get college degrees, they can't work out in a supplied weight room for hours, and the prison is now smoke free. There are things that are not basic human needs that prisons afford that shouldn't be given, I think (like t.v, work out rooms, etc). These are luxuries most people on the outside can't afford, no reason a law breaker should get them. Shelter, food, clothes, a basic education and maybe a trade skill. There you go. Though I think if you rape, kill or fuck with kids you should just die slowly and painfully.I think I will stop now, getting a little (well alot) worked up. Oh Supe, what did you start? ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
i agree with Frenzie. i know you meant to find some point of views on a controversial subject but i think you just picked the wrong place to bring it up. i know you didn't mean to be offensive to anyone supes and we are all aware of that and are cool enought not to hold it against you . i hearby declare this topic closed: All in favor say Ay. All opposed say Nay.------------------the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
All I have to add is this;The system doesnt work.Innocent poor ppl go to jail,Guilty rich ppl walk free,Offenses against ppl are punished less than offenses against profit$Ppl who are sent to jail are statistically far more likely to re-offend.putting ppl in the chair doesnt change anything. It might be cheaper...but hey.Treat ppl like cattle, they will behave as cattle. everyone models themselves on other ppls expectations, no matter how aware you are of it, ask someone who has been convicted.The psychology of punishment is particularly fraught with potential erroneous learning.Pele, I feel for anyone who has been through such an ordeal, not once but twice...it is totally fucked that ppl can walk free simply cuz nobody can verify the lack of consent...but as flawed as it is, what is the alternative? I detest anyone who would do such a thing...argh.Josh

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
I say aye, though Im not opposed to checking others' views. Its weird though, I just got a Moby cd today, and was flipping through the booklet, and came across something hed written about prisoners. Hopefully its not too long. Its just an interesting view, though I could dispute a point or two. It horrifies me that we allow prisoners to be treated so poorly. If someone is found guilty of committing a crime then we as a society have given ourselves the right to punish them by locking them up. But we also acknowledge that even someone convicted of committing a crime retains some basic civil rights. Unfortunatley our prisons (especially here in the US)are places where peoples basic rights are trampled on pretty much as a matter of course. Prisoners shouldnt have to fear rape, abuse & murder while theyre incarcerated. A civilized nation should concern itself with protecting and maintaining the rights of all of its citizens, be they prisoners or not. A prisoner should be able to pay their debt to society with ample, constitutionally guaranteed, protection from harm. And while Im getting worked up about the rights of prisoners, let me take a minute to point out the utter absurdity of consensual crimes in a supposedly free society. How can we justify locking people up for committing actions that have no demostrable repercussions to anyone else? If someones actions compromise the rights or will of another individual, then fine, punish them. But if someones actions dont affect anyone other than the person committing the actions, then what business is it of the states? Im specifically referring to drug use. I dont use drugs, and I think that drugs can be terribly destructive and dangerous, but I dont see how the state can arrest anadult for doing something to their own body. An enlightened state should warn its citizens about dangerous activities, but it shouldnt be allowed to lock people up for doing things to themselves. I do not want any government making decisions regarding what i can put in to or do to my body. An individuals own body is nott the jurisdiction of the state. Although we may find suicide, drug use, abortion, self-mutilation, etc, abhorrent, we cannot as an enlightened society make criminals of people that want to do these things to themselves, so long as their actions dont compromise our rights. Because we find somthing distasteful is not justification enough for us to deem it criminal. wow that was long. thought id throw in his two cents too. anyways compadres, much gratitude to all on this board------------------~I dont care if they eat me alive, Ive got better things to do than survive. ~Ani

Wow

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
Yikes.Scary topic.First of all Pele, hugs, my heart goes out to you.Secondly I would just like to say that there are evil people in the world and hatred breeds hatred. There are some people in prisons that don't deserve to live, as they have misused their humanity. But who are we to judge who lives and dies? I certainly wouldn't make that choice.I do agree that prisoners should be made 'useful' instead of just rotting away in their cells.If you ever think people have an easy time in prisons talk to somebody who has been there and I'm sure they will tell you it's not such a holiday camp, and watch shawshank redemption,which is sure to put the chills down you. My Uncle was accused of rape by a girl who got scared when whe got pregnant by her married lover and decided to 'accuse' one of the men working for her father but it then turned out she wasn't pregnant. The case went on for few years and a lot of trauma later, he was proved innocent. I shudder to think that he could have ended up in jail. However part of him died I think the day he was branded as scum, it broke his heart to think people could think him capable of anything like that, and I've never met such a gentle man as him before.And then there are the people who are jailed for ridiculous charges like holding cannabis. You can be jailed for 5 years in Japan for possession. One of my mates over here spent a stretch in prison for posession of speed and it took him a long time to get his life back together and has been branded a 'criminal'. As a talented musician he is given some lee-way, but his career took a hell of a nose-dive and he is only building it back up now. Girl of Mars I am with you, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but this is a topic that could be hurtful to a lot of people so it might be better to let it rest------------------"London is a city coming down from its trip and there's going to be a lot of refugees" - Danny,Withnail & I

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Posted: 26th Apr 2001
First of all I wanted to say that while the sentiments are greatly appreciated, I have healed and moved on..a little more untrusting but...I have forgiven the boys who did this and stopped blaming myself because those were the only ways I could heal. I may have come across several hard times in my life but I would *never* change one for they have forged me into the person I am today, and I kind-of like her. Anyway, One of my favorite movies has an amazing quote about this very topic, which I don't think should be closed at all but should be handled with respect in knowing the varying emotions that can be a result of it...."Those who are thieves can not help themselves....If you suffer your people to be ill educated and their manners corrupted from infancy and then punish them for the crimes which their education first disposed them what else can be concluded that first you make thieves and then punish them?"It comes from the movie Ever After and if I am not mistaken is based on part of the book "Utopia".While I think there are people who have a predisposition/psychosis for crime, I also think that many criminals are bred/created and feel they have no other choice. Does this excuse their actions? Of course not but it does waylay some thoughts on responsibility for our children and behaviour. ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
i think the topic should stay open, everyone seems to be handling themselves rather appropriately.i dont really see what the harm is if you want to do something to yourself either, but it does usually affect other people. take suicide for example, whenever (well, not always, but most of the time anyway) someone kills themselves, their friends and family always think it was something they did, or they didnt do, it always makes them feel horrible. while i think the real problem is with their friends and family, the person should realize what it will do to them, and make dang sure that they are okay with that before doing something like this to "themselves".also about the prison thing, i dont see why we cant have the prisoners do something constructive. i think its ridiculous that they have to fear things like rape, we put them in prison to control them, but even in prison they arent controlled. they spend all day watching cable and lifting weights, what a waste of time and life. tv just sucks everything out of you, we should be helping them, or teaching them, i mean they have plenty of time on their hands, and nowhere to go, how about doing something constructive, teach them a hobby (poi perhaps!), teach them a skill, they just sit in a cell and rot. $40,000 is alot of money, i think i could live on a third of that (of course a lot of that goes towards the security aspect) why dont we put that money to good use? sure these people have committed crimes, sure these people may be murderers, rapists, thieves or anything like that, and sure many of them probably dont deserve to keep their rights, but we still need to remain civil about their treatment, and as long as they are there, we may as well try to help them. they are still (most of them anyway) capable human beings, who maybe if they had another chance, or found something positive to do would be able to turn their lives around, or at least better their circumstances and not just waste away.redbrother,God bless

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
This is one of my favourite things to hear on the penal system. Because controversial as the original comment sounds, it just hammers home the importance of treating the legal sanciton of jail as an opportunity for rehabilitation rather than just a revenge thing.If jail wa cheap, we'd not think twice b4 throwing ppl there for any misdemeanour. But at this price, we've got a real and pressing motivation to spend whatever money qand effort it takes to get people back on the tracks, rehabilitated, and in a state to come out, work, pay some taxes back into the system, and make whatever contribution to society their unique talents provide. I've got no problem paying what it takes to get someone 'mended'. I do have objections to paying for inhumane treatment in society's oubliette.mikeyB

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
Well supes.... I hate to say I told you so.... But I gotta give you a lot of props for being the one that started this thread, that took guts, knowing that you were prolly gonna be everybody's virtual punching bag for a while. Not a whole lot of people will openly stick their neck out like that, you might be wrong, and well in some case you might be totally rightBut none of us can define right and wrong for a world of people...so what is there to do?------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
HOOOOOOOOOLD Ooooon.I prematurely posted..This was suspose to be a list of three Smart-ass jokes...The prisoner one: and two others...Granted the prisoner one was a little touchy, but i figured the other two would smooth it out....i need to learn how to copy and paste better.But it did generate some decent conversation...By no means was i trying to offend anyone very ...Especially you Pele. If there is any former inmate i have a problem with...it would be my father. He tended to spend more time in jail than taking care of my mom and I. My sincerest apaologies to anyone that this might have hurt.But since we are on the subject.....the system is whack! S'pecially here in the states. My friend sells a little pot on the side (maybe not a little 4lbs worth), gets caught selling and goes in the pen for 5-10 yrs...Hes a straight "A" student at A&M, going to business college, now hes screwed...BUT BUT, the sick fuck that molested and raped our close friend's 7 yr old grand daughter, was a previously convicted child molester that spent 2 yrs of a 6 yr stretch at Huntsville state prison. He is released back out onto society, into a community 3 blocks from a school. When convicted this time he recieved a sentence of 7-10yrs... thats the only problem i have with our prisons..those are the people that never need to get out.People put in prison for tax evasion, and embezzlment..what a crock of shit! Save the cells for the real sickos that cannot conform to society.this post shows the beauty of this board and the people on it...Somewhere else this would have reallly gotten out of hand, but here it just stayed very calm with no flame wars...everyone should spin, it would make the world a better place..Ill watch my posts a little better in the future peeps..Super'------------------"Only the warrior that hears the call will know when to leave, Where to go" -unknown

Courage is resistance to fear, mastery of fear--not absence of fear.


- Mark Twain

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 27th Apr 2001
so whats the rest of the joke?