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Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > butterfly kicks, wushu, capoeira, etc

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drewjitsu
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

newbie
Location: CA & NM, USA

Total posts: 19
Posted:*this is a variation to a post i put in staff moves, but i decided what the hell-- ill ask if anybody here has any ideas too...



hello my flaming friends lol



i have been practicing wushu for a long time now and spend a lot of my time training with weapons. in my routines i regularly incorporate aerial kicks and jumps. i am wondering if anybody else has tried this. i've tried doing it with my practice poi but the lack of rigidity makes it next to impossible to keep everything lined up while i'm flipping through the air. ive been able to land a few simple, slow-spinning jumps, but when i try to go inverted or spin really fast, everything just goes crazy and i hurt myself frown ...but ill keep trying



here is a video with some good weapon demos to help you get the idea: beijing wushu team

you can also just search "wushu" at google video and see others



so....has anybody tried this or can do it already? if not, i think it could add another dimension to spinning fire and elevate fire performance to another level!!



but a warning as well - it took me over 2 years of conditioning and training to be able to land aerial kicks smoothly and consistently. i've seen others do it in less than half the time, and many more not able to do it at all. i had to spend a lot of time doing intense stretching, ballistics, and plyometrics. not to mention recovery time and physical therapy for the numerous injuries i sustained from my failed attempts. a trampoline can help too.



any discussion or words of wisdom from my firey brethren???? i am currently experimenting with relatively static hand positioning as i spin/flip my body...any tips?


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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York, USA

Total posts: 3354
Posted:I've found that doing jumps with poi isn't that hard, granted its harder than a solid toy, but still very doable

I have a background in ice skating, so I was trained with jumps, and when I first picked up poi some of the first things I tried doing was transferring skating movements to poi. This includes jumping.

What I've found is that its easier to wrap the poi around each other, have them in one hand, and then jump at whatever angle you want.

Although there are nice things you can do with poi in separate hands when you jump.

if you're really keen on jumping with them in separate hands, my advice is to just practice and play with the angles of the poi


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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drewjitsu
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

newbie
Location: CA & NM, USA

Total posts: 19
Posted:thanks fireNice -

Jumping with poi one hand is definitely a lot more doable, I guess I figured that would be a cinch if I could get some down with both hands.

You're right on about the angles...I've been hitting the ground a lot when I throw my arms really low for an inverted jump. It's tough to get the momentum for the kinds of body rotation I'm used to while holding my arms in on the preload...maybe i should make my poi heavier lol.

That's funny though that the one move I sorta got down reminded me of ice skating, so yeah I see where you're coming from!


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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:I've not seen very much jumping with poi, but it's something I'm trying to work with as well. Unfortunately, I haven't played with such things for many years and my body is feeling a little worse for wear these days.

The easiest jump maneuver is probably from a corkscrew, which would actually work well for alot of the jumps in the link you posted. There's also the style of jump that's towards the end of Yuta's video that I've seen often in various formats. Yuta (as with most things in that video) does it with more flare and more flawless than I've seen elsewhere. There's also some jumping in the Pa-li-Tchi (I think I got that right) video with the poi spinning verticle, which is much harder to keep a solid plane and not smack yourself. This is the type of spin I'd most like to make work during a jump.

If I knew anything about ballet styled jumping, it would definitely be something I'd try and incorporate in there.. Ahwell.. just gotta keep workin at it.


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 263
Posted:actually, having watched many many wushu (and other martial art) videos and having done some training in the past I can see lots of potential for some really kick arse moves with the jumping and all. If you are anywhere near as athletic as many of those in the video then I have some move ideas for ya.

Jumping corkscrew (4bt or 2): corkscrew above you and as you do get ready to move and do a high spinning jump and do the bottom part of the corkscrew under you body/through your legs. Once landed back on the ground you could drop right into a poi matrix.

Flying pirouettes (spelling?): as you are walking, start a windmill, turn it into a giant windmill, sidestep turn body and jump and spin with arms out (have to spin your body at a 45 degree angle or if you are REAL good 90 degrees). Land and continue ground pirouettes or windmill or flowers or some such lovely move. This move could also look really cool from a weave. Say a forwards weave on say your left side. cross over but instead of of bringing your right hand back over to the left side extend it out behind you and spin with the arm while jumping, your body will spin 360 and land you in the same position you started. Should look like a big verticle circle to observers. Dunno what the jumping part is called though i've seen many a person do it.

Front and backflips should work. especially if you spin the ppoi in same time wheel plane before jumping. just do a hand wrap or 2 before takeing off so the poi don't hit the ground, and as you are flipping you can unwrap.

Helicopter: Again, corckscrew above head, as unwinding sidestep turn and spin in same direction as poi and extend arms out to sides. Of course you should do a hefty and fast spinning jump here as you spin idealy with legs tucked up close in. Land and continue corkscrew or do a body wrap and reverse direction etc etc.

Rodeo: This seems like it'd be rather hard but the details seem to work in my head. TTN above head in horizontal plane leaving one hand above drop the other down to about shoulder height and long arm it as if you were gonna do a giant. jump and spin in the same direction as the poi you lowered while keeping the other poi above head. The top poi would now be basically spinning anti-spin because you are turning against the rotation of the top poi (the same direction as the lower poi) If you jump with one leg while tucking the other it would look like you are riding a horse while spinning a lasso (more or less).

Extended chase the sun: spinning and turning in the air with the poi. Shouldn't be that hard since you can put your hands together on the down swing to get momentum then on the up you jump and spin over then land again on the downswing then do the behind the head part.

dunno these are just ideas that jumped out at me. I'm off to the outside now to try some of this stuff.


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:I've been working my body back up to accomplish some of that stuff. Already tryin alot of the things you discuss, Imbalance. I need to get some contacts for the flips tho, otherwise my glasses'd go flyin off into the wild blue yonder. Much of it is not nearly so simple as it would seem. Tryin to get poi to behave while you're flinging your body around is *not* an easy task.

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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drewjitsu
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

newbie
Location: CA & NM, USA

Total posts: 19
Posted:thank for the ideas imbalance

althought i've been doing wushu for years now, i've only been spinning poi 1-2 months, so i realize i need to work on the poi moves more before incorporating body aerials. it's definitely nice to have this new kind of challenge!

suibom- unfortunately i will be moving back to the bay area april 1st, so i won't be around for your visit. but hey, the bay is even closer to oregon you should come down and visit there lol! i also posted a little bit about plyometric training in the staff moves forum if you're interested in increasing your jumping abilities


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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Bummer.. yeah, I'll also be missing the NM regional Burning Man event by a couple of weeks in the other direction. Ahwell, you lose some, and then you lose some, and then you go out and spin some and it just doesn't matter :P.

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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Imbalance
GOLD Member since Sep 2005

Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA

Total posts: 263
Posted:Oh i am quite sure that keeping the poi in line when flinging your body around is very very hard. I am no longer nearly as in shape/athletic as I once was and therefore all that stuff is so much harder/impossible till i decide to actually get in shape lol.

As for contacts...pssshh i wear glasses also. While i HAVE contacts I nearly never use them and when I spin, i just take off the glasses. My vision isn't HORRIBE but its not great either (-3 in each eye). But honestly you don't need to see that much for poi. As long as you can see a flying shape about 4-5 feet away from you, you'll do fine. Though I imagine for the jumping stuff you may want a bit better vision for landing...lol. Honestly though, I've taken to spinning with my eyes closed. Really helps me burn things into muscle memory and is (in my opinion) quite relaxing. Of course the poi catch and what not, but if you can do a move with your eyes closed then you have it nailed. But thats just my opinion.

But if/when you guys get all these new moves worked out I wanna see the video ;-)


I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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Twiggy


Twiggy

member
Location: Birmingham, UK

Total posts: 162
Posted:You should be able to do an aerial with forward circles into backward circles.. maybe lol.

Ive been thinking about trying to squeeze a Butterfly twist in somehow, its the only move i can do consistantly. Maybe from a corkscrew, just worried about the mid air collision.


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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:Maybe you could do something that looks like this

Sort of a full body isolation...


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Saskeah


Saskeah

member


Total posts: 43
Posted:I've been wanting to try some capoeira for ages, but I just don't have the initiative to get into it. New community and all that, I find it really hard. I think that I need something to spice up my poi spinning as well, although I've been leaning more towards dance as one option. It seems like once you get to a point, tricks and amateur body movement just don't cut it, you know?

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Written by:
Maybe you could do something that looks like this
Sort of a full body isolation...



The problem with this type of move, and most aerials, in fact, is that you rely very heavily on arm movements for control. Trying to coordinate the arm movements necessary with the direction and speed the poi are going and will be going after the arm movements is a very daunting task.


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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jesusofsuburbia


member
Location: auburn wa

Total posts: 27
Posted:an easy one to seperate the butterfly to your sides so there going opposite directions(butterfly weave) then jump up, extending both legs out and wrapping both poi. try to wrap it twice before you land, its very hard but looks good

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Wrap em around your hands, do your thing, and then unwrap em. Easy enough. Maybe not exactly what you want,but good place to start.

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Iocaine
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Iocaine

newbie
Location: Maryland, USA

Total posts: 12
Posted:My brother was a 3 time wushu nationals competitor for dual chainwhips. It kinda made his transition into poi rather easy. One of his favorite moves was to do the full wind up into a butterfly kick. the wind up allows you to keep the poi moving on a horizontal plain with you and then you keep one below you and the other behind you while in the air. It actually looks rather impressive.

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