Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > I can't do poi - would swing torches be any easier? *DELETED*

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Wheee
member

Member Since: 12th Feb 2006
Total posts: 33
Posted:Post deleted by Wheee

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Gee, Whee - how come that poi have been expensive and a mistake - I can follow up on painful and frustrating maybe, but expensive?

All I can give you is the advice not to give up that easy on Poi. It's taking down some road of frustration and maybe even anger sometimes, but after some time it's really boosting. You just have to pass that first obstacle - then it'll fall into place.

But surely as much as I can tell, clubswinging will not be much easier, just different...

Good luck hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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dm33186
newbie
Location: Madison Wisconsin
Member Since: 25th Dec 2005
Total posts: 5
Posted:clubs are just as hard if not harder.

poi you can cheat a bit as they are not rigid from your hand and you have 1 grip

club swinging has multiple grips that have to be switched amongst within moves (ie shoulder reels take the ball and socket grip along with the ring grip. weaves take a different grip yet). Also as you said they are rigid but that means your arm movements have to be more fluid to make clubs look good.

Use the clubs as a learning tool for poi, you can use them to help figure out timing a bit along with hand/arm/wrist movements. Once you do get that down and get it transferred to the poi go back to the clubs and try to clean up your club planes. This will immensely help you poi in flow and looks. This was mentioned to me after doing a club swinging workshop at a fest and the person came up to me late and said my poi were looking a lot better.

Once it all clicks though it is relaxing and rewarding once you nail certain moves and can move onto fire and performances. Nothing like being in my colleges homecoming parade with fire a month and a half after picking up poi for the first time and having a few thousand people see you and a few random comments later in classes etc.

Don't give up either way but for some inspiration check out www.jentony.com and find the promo video they have in multimedia, she does some amazing club swinging and is a wonderful person. I had the opportunity to meet both Jen and Tony last month in Madison, Wi. Great people and amazing jugglers and performance artists. One tip though, she does club snakes, they are very beautiful when done right and involve the club wrapping around your arms. This is once club move that will not transfer to poi due to the nature of the props. Learn these with clubs (there are diagrams of how to do it in you search google for club swinging you should find an out of print book that has been put into a pdf) but my advice is practice these intermittently as they use muscles you never knew you had and your arms will hurt the next day if you do more than 10 minutes with the trick.

Have Fun


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TheBovrilMonkey
TheBovrilMonkey

Liquid Cow
Location: High Wycombe, England
Member Since: 3rd Sep 2001
Total posts: 2629
Posted:It depends on the move.



If you're still wanting to get the butterfly down, then clubs are a bad idea, it's really hard on the wrists.



However, moves like the weave can be a lot easier, since you can spin as slow as you need to and it doesn't involve much wrist flexing or shifting grips.



Handily, there's this book here by Anna Jillings: Modern Club and Pole Swinging that's a very good read.



Also, to save you buying clubs until you're sure to want to, you can make some out of newspaper. This page here details how to do that.



Written by:


One tip though, she does club snakes, they are very beautiful when done right and involve the club wrapping around your arms. This is once club move that will not transfer to poi due to the nature of the props.





That's not strictly true, you can do a fair few snakes with poi - they're just isolated circles in awkward places. Still can't do anything like travelling snakes though smile

EDITED_BY: TheBovrilMonkey (1139746439)


But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.

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Wheee
member

Member Since: 12th Feb 2006
Total posts: 33
Posted:Post deleted by Wheee

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Wheee
member

Member Since: 12th Feb 2006
Total posts: 33
Posted:Post deleted by Wheee

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pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted:Or why not a cheaper version of a broom handle with padding on the ends to avoid injury?

You can be good at poi if you want to, it just takes a bit of practice. Things are much more satisfying if you have to struggle a bit to achieve them, life would be boring if we could all do something the first time we tried.

Staff is no easier to learn than poi, again just different, why not challenge yourself to go forwards, not sideways, it won't take much time, and you never know, you might find it satisfying and gain a sense of achievment and confidence?

Have you tried looking in the meet others and events sections for people in you area who could help you? Often you find its easy to pick things up when there is someone there to show directly, and give you tips.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Wheee
member

Member Since: 12th Feb 2006
Total posts: 33
Posted:Post deleted by Wheee

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scherrah
scherrah

newbie
Location: Oklahoma
Member Since: 22nd Feb 2005
Total posts: 10
Posted:Written by: Wheee
As for other people - I know people who can do poi - this is why I was interested - but won't ask them to teach me for pretty much the same reason people shouldn't learn to drive from their marriage partners - the frustration would cause arguments and strain the friendship too much.



It's been my experience that people who spin poi are more than happy to teach others (if they have the time, of course).

A good attitude when going into it would help you a lot too. smile You have to learn somewhere, yo.


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Daiz
Daiz

Radioactive Member
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Member Since: 12th Feb 2006
Total posts: 106
Posted:It really depends, I personally think that you should teach yourself poi, but my trick is that I personally do not go slowly, if I do; I mess up more. Go fast but hold the poi farther from you with your arms still bent for flexibility and speed shifting.

-WD


I'm gonna cut you up so bad, you gonna wish I ain't cut you up so bad.

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:I'm completely self taught, but I'll teach people the basics if they seem interested, or if I can manage to shove my 'evil scary' looking poi in their hands and get them to spin them..

I don't think it's a question of ability, its a question of knowledge and attitude. It seems like you decide something is too hard and try to move onto the next one before you even get any of the basics down.

Poi can be downright boring if you can only do one or two moves and no transition between the two, but once you get a few more and start linking together then a whole 'nother world opens up. You don't give up because its difficult, you keep going because its difficult.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:Practice practice practice. It'll come to you biggrin

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yo,

whee I think you have a lovely name, and a terrible attitude

"As for why not challenging myself? I want something that is fun not frustrating. If its going to take weeks of practise to get even the most basic of moves right its not fun - thats hard work - and from past experience wasted effort, I don't improve at things requiring co-ordination - I can do something or I can't. For example I learnt to spin a yo-yo at the bottom of the string and recover in about half a dozen attempts 20 years ago. Thats still all I can manage with a yo-yo."

You are plainly not a juggler. for a juggler the point is to increase you level of co-ordination consistently, so that you hand speed, and depth perception get sharper every time you practice.

That first thing you can do without frustration, that should be your threshold, your doorway into the pleasure of achivment, its the beggining of the jpourney, not its end, not its objective.

the reson why your co-ordination has never gotten better is that you have never trained it. If ten years ago you had pushed yourself to do something you couldent with the yo-yo, im shure you would have a much better time learning poi now.

I dont mean to beat up on you, im just pionting out that if you want an instant hit of being able to do something without effort, your not really a jugler, and should consider something else, like water slides, they are fun, and require no effort to learn.

If you really want to learn a co-ordination skill (and believe me, co-ordination is a learnt skill, it gets better with time, and is terrible when untrained, the block your stumbling over) you most have to change this statement:

"I can do something or I can't"

which is rubbish, the truth is you can't do anything but you could do everything if you (a) belived you could and (b) had the real drive and enjoyment in discovery to persist with that thing beyond the imeadatley obvious first trick.

how dare you come on here and whine about spending money on something you cant even be bothered to practice, and to a set of peaple who have all put hundreds of hours into learning thier art.

enough negative.

constructive advice.

1) start with staff, its bay far the easiest, and will teach you all you need to know about circles in order to do poi or clubs if you decide to learn.

2) take your staff with you everywhere, and I mean everywhere, shops, bathroom, colledge, work.

3) learn this mysterious thing called 'backwards' and fit it together with forwards, after that dont bother trying to learn anything from the net or videos for a while, just get used to playing with your staff, forwards and back, try and invent your own way of spinning.

4) decide on 1 impossible trick you definatly cant do, attempt this trick 10 times every day, dont worry about getting it, just try it.

I dont mean this to be a personal attack, but im a bit offended.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:oh and I nearly forgot, torches are waaay harder than poi.

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Imbalance
Imbalance

not different, just not the same
Location: Charlotte, NC
Member Since: 9th Sep 2005
Total posts: 263
Posted:*applaudes Nx?'s post(s)*

I once learned every move that there was,
Every style, Every technique.
Then I woke up, and forgot it all,
So now I struggle to dream.

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:Thanks,

I really want to say that Im not trying to insult or demean you whee, Im just trying to point out the most obvious problem with your learning, and the most obvious solution, i just hope you do learn to get into something, because its the best feeling around. good luck.

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Wheee
member

Member Since: 12th Feb 2006
Total posts: 33
Posted:Post deleted by Wheee

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:You could always just play with one poi wink There is a surprising amount of stuff you can do with a single chain....

That said, it's good to see a response like that from someone, lots of respect for that. But I've never really bought into that "some people can, some people can't" mentality.

If the coordination thing is right, than yes, it will be hard, but it is certainly not impossible. People (I hesitate to say "like us") have done various coordination dependant activities our whole lives. Thats by no means a requirement, but it is definatly an advantage. That just means you need to take it slower, and break it down into smaller steps.

If your friends are spinners, ask them to help you. If you feel yourself getting frustrated to a point where you might become angry, call the session quits and just start it some other time. There is no reason to get mad over poi, but having someone teach, and show, in person, will help you 10,000x more than any video online.

Remember that that first 'move' is always going to be one of the hardest to learn. Once you get that down it will go surprisingly quick because you'll have the experience and have a feel for the poi. Forwards butterfly becomes split time, then reverse, and reverse split, and low waves and mexican waves and you've already got 6 moves.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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pricklyleaf
pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester
Member Since: 7th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1365
Posted:Can I also add, teaching someone poi is very different from teaching someone to drive.

When teaching someone to drive, you are in the car with them 100%of the time, but when teaching poi, normally you show them how to do something, go away to let them practice it, come back to see how they're going and give them some more tips, keep coming back till they've got it.

In my experience, most people learn about 10 times faster when shown a poi move in person, than when shown one in a book or video, so it's really worth asking your friends.

I've never heard of teaching someone poi in person, causing arguments and problems, it's not like driving at all.


Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

Ralph Waldo Emerson

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newgabe
newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali
Member Since: 3rd Mar 2005
Total posts: 4030
Posted:Well, I can sympathise with Whee, being a very slow learner myself. And being an old lady and all... with fast learning, fit trained people all around me. redface I wish I was there to show you some slow simple impossible to hit yourself ways to start that I have figured out!

Where do you live, Wheee?


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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FoxInDocs
FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1848
Posted:
I'm probably sticking my nose in where i don't belong... even being in tech forums is that for me... but i disagree with alot of you, and agree with whee.

Co-ordination, while it can be learnt by most people, comes alot harder for some people and not at all for still a smaller group. I have a friend who's so unco she couldn't even get that whole "arms and legs moving in sync when running" thing down.

then theres me, i'm very coordinated, but i'm not so good at the creativity, i learn moves fairly quicky when shown, but i can't make them up, and i can't string them together very well... same with my belly dancing.

having said all that, don't give up, whee.

If you've found you could get a couple of the basic movements without too much of a problem, Do go and find someone to show you moves.

Get frustrated. i find my coordination increasess when i'm p!ssed off... that's how i learned to play guitar, i couldn't work out how to strum it for ages and it annoyed me so much i just hit the damn thing with the pick and Voila! a strum! just swing the things round in frustraiton and maybe it'll come.

Also, like Nx said, just try things at random... i find alot of my bellydance moves come to me that way... i'll have been trying things for weeks and weeks in class and then i'm standing infront of the mirror brushing my teeth and i give it a go and it works and i'm like "what have i been doing all these weeks!? this is so easy!"

anyways, i think that's it for me. Good luck, and do keep trying.


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:I agree with the boot-fox too.

there are peaple who have real physical problems with co-ordination, and if you are one of thease then I am indeed amazed at your persistence and salute you for it.

I do strongly believe that cordination gets better with practice, so I hope it helps you. smile

T wave


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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boobookittyfudge
boobookittyfudge

sneaky little kitty
Location: Missouri
Member Since: 10th Sep 2005
Total posts: 251
Posted:don't give up. i have to agree with the "find a poi friend" mentality. i would never have gotten as good as i am now without my poi buddies. and we tend to laugh at each other more than get angry. just relax and make a fool of yourself, but be able to laugh about it. sometimes it is frustrating. but if you want to get it, you have to keep trying. someday it will just click.

you want the truth? you can't handle the truth!

mmmmm...cheesecake

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esmokah
esmokah

journeyman
Location: wisconsin
Member Since: 21st Feb 2005
Total posts: 75
Posted:learning poi, well, anything really involves a lot of blood swear and tears. start slow with some basics and try not to make it a chore to learn. pick them up when you get inspired and put them down when you get tired or too pissed. push yourself until you hit a wall with what you can do, then learn everything you know backwards. it'll feel so much different. once you clear that, learn more until you hit the next wall. practice makes perfect!

I've never seen a supernova blow up, but if it's anything like my old chevy nova it'll light up the night sky!

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Really my friend - I would guess (spank me for it!) that nearly 80% of the spinners thought they'd never learn it!

Just take it easy... and the rest will follow biggrin


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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