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ChaosQueen
GOLD Member since May 2005

ChaosQueen

Member
Location: Grants Pass, OR

Total posts: 10
Posted:Anyone got any tips on the 5beat butterfly? You can see videos of it on sphericalism.com.....I think I spelled that wrong though. weavesmiley

*With Love and Light*

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:learn thread the kneedle extra beat first.

This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I agree to start first with Thread the needle (2 beats with each hand or 04 siteswap) and than 5 beat that is actually "half" of 6 beat thread the needle where you put and extra twist to add one beat to each hand in you thread the needle.



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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oli
SILVER Member since Jul 2003

not with cactus
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devo...

Total posts: 2052
Posted:^what richee says, learn a 7bt weave, then try and do something like that but in butterfly just on one side of a normal 4bt butterfly.

Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Isn't 5bt Butterfly the same as 5bt Thread the Needle?



To get a 4bt TTN, it is usual to put an extra beat in around your elbow. For a 6bt, you add in another spin around your wrist. Sorry, I can't explain it much better than that without showing you first-hand...



Although there is a video somewhere of Durbs showing some Thread the needles variations, Mainly 4bt, in forward, reverse, and split time forward/reverse. Look for A video thread With lots of durbs' Videos in it. I'll search later for it, but right at this second I'm a bit busy...



But there are more than 5, or even 6bts to be found... I can do a 10bt Thread the Needle. Don't stop at five, see how far you can go!



EDIT: edited to give a bit more information on getting extra beats

EDITED_BY: Leaning_Towards_Corruption (1139413850)


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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[Nx?]
BRONZE Member since Nov 2001

[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both

Total posts: 3749
Posted:*handbags* ooooh look at you.

I dont thinkn that was the question actually.


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by: Leaning_Towards_Corruption

But there are more than 5, or even 6bts to be found... I can do a 10bt Thread the Needle. Don't stop at five, see how far you can go!

EDIT: edited to give a bit more information on getting extra beats



can i borrow 4 or 5 of your extra elbows? ubbloco

-- dut


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Yeah, they're called your shoulders... wink

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by: Leaning_Towards_Corruption

Yeah, they're called your shoulders... wink



shenanigans! i have a clavical in the way, so i definitely won't be threading my shoulders anytime soon. you'd have to somehow get your left shoulder 360 degrees around your right shoulder (required for the one-wrist twist, one elbow twist 10 beat you claim) without "turning". basically tho, you get a max of 90 degrees out of shoulder twisting before it becomes a turn in my book, so this is contradictory.

if you had said a 10 beat b-fly weave instead of TTN, i might have believed you for a second as you get a free turn in that move, and it could possibly only leave you with only 360'ed elbows and wrists... *shakes head* i guess you could be a contortionist? i'm just not going to believe it of anyone without a pic of them twisted up that much. wink

-- dut


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Hmmm...

I've put a video of it in my Gallery. If it's not a 10bt TTN, what is it? smile

I've just this second shown Bluecat, and he says 6bt with a couple of Hugs... So I fear there is a 99% chance I'm wrong in calling it a 10bt TTN...
But please, tell me what you think smile


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Dut pretty much summed it up LTC.. for info on degrees, check out Rev's Poi goes Punk thread..

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:I wouldn't be calling that a 10 beat TTN, I see it more as a BF with one spin over the shoulder, then 3 spins with one arm over top of the other, then the 4BT TTN, to be repeated on the opposite side to create a 10 beat pattern.

It's a great pattern though, but I think it might be improved a little by cutting out 2 of the three spins with the arms crossed, and maybe work in an OTH BF beat or two. It's always been my impression that the TTN has a constant switching of the top wrist, as well as moving in and out relative to your body.


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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa

Total posts: 1799
Posted:do the five beat in split time thread the needle.. you could.

smile


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Even beat TTNs are same time, odd beat ones are split time (assuming you want them symmetrical). A 5bt TTN basically starts with a 3bt split time TTN and then you do an extra circle with each hand in much the same way you'd do a 5bt weave.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Ah ha!!

This thread has taught me more about the threading of needles!

Me likey! smile


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by: Suibom

Dut pretty much summed it up LTC.. for info on degrees, check out Rev's Poi goes Punk thread..



here's what i said in the video thread:
Written by: dut


looks like two over-the-shoulder-to-4-beat-TTNs. basically to get to anything traditionally called "a 10 beat TTN" (much less THE 10 beat TTN), you have to go through the 4/6/8 first sequentially, or wrap your arms that many times in one circle. so right hand wraps left hand by 720 degrees. you've got one TTN with right wrapping left by 180 and one with left wrapping right by 180. i dunno. since it's got each hand on "top" like that, it might be the 5-beat TTN that originally brought this move up (with some extra circles thrown in). this is basically the reason people want to stop using the word "beat" as it confuses people into thinking your counting "circles" instead of degrees of "wrap" that have to be undone by that many circles. let me know if this makes any sense. i'll try to find a vid of a real 6 so you at least see how twisted the arms look there and imagine trying to add another 360 degrees of twist. lol.



i supposed i flubbed up by using both definitions of "degree". I use degree like degrees of a circle -- 180 degrees is half a circle, 360 is a full circle. Rev talks about first, second, etc degree being equivalent to mine, but divided by 180. my 180 is his first degree, my 360 is his second degree. if you imagine you hands side by side in a line, and then cross the right hand so it's to the left of the left hand, you're now in 180 or "first" degree, where the 4 beat TTN happens. if you cross that hand back under so it's on the right again (except now with your arms pretzelled) you're at 360 or "second" degree where the 5 beat weave and 6 beat TTN happens. i guess it's arbitrary either way where the circle starts (side by side, or top and bottom), but the idea is that one hand spirals around the other arm completely, not just slides down the outside. every "beat" is another 180 degrees. so 540 is "third" degree and used for 7 beat weaves (and 8 beat TTN). for 10 beat TTN, you'd need the right hand to spiral over, under, back over, and back under the left arm -- not likely if your arms have bones and only the usual number of elbows.

that should help on what is meant by "degree" tho. i also have to mention i really like the over the shoulder -> 4 beat transition and don't think i've ever seen it before. good stuff. take out the extra circles that don't add "beats" if you want and it'll be even more impressive. biggrin

-- dut


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shen shui
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

shen shui

no excuses. no apologies.
Location: aotearoa

Total posts: 1799
Posted:thanks dut.

massive.


those that know, dont say. those that say, dont know.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:dut


hey partner.. love the help there.. but one thing..
4bt != first degree
4bt == second degree..

2bt = first degree one side, zero degree the other..
3bt = first degree and first degree
4bt = second degree and first degree
5bt = second degree and second degree
6bt = thrid degree and second degree
etc...

the easies way for people to learn degree is to look at that list and then look at the hand position you are in at the end of the twisting on either side of a weave or during either half of a ttn... each degree is 180 degrees of hand movement..


More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Errr rev only if you're talking about split time TTNs. Same time TTNs are perfectly symmetrical in even beats.

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego

Total posts: 1269
Posted:yeah... the point I was trying to make was that the degree changes on even beat not odd. I went on a a drunk posting spree last night.. haha

More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Tom_Shill
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 213
Posted:Helpful thread guys, thanks. Slightly irritating though, I span for about 3 hours the other night trying to work out why I couldn't do a split time 4beat TTN rolleyes

Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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Tom_Shill
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 213
Posted:I just came accross an interesting 6bt varient using the hand positions for a 4bt. This is going to be a bit difficult to describe. You start off doing a 4bt backwards TTN. I'm afraid I'm going to use the word 'beat' because if I try to use degrees I'll mess it up. So if we take a beat to be when the poi reaches the bottom of its circle, the first beat is with the right hand passing under the left elbow. Normally it would push forward down the left hand side of the left arm. Instead pull it back to your left armpit so that beat 2 happens behind your back. Then carry it forward into what would normally be beat 2 of a 4bt TTN. Repeated on the other side this gives a 6 beat pattern. I'm not suggeating that this is a 6bt TTN, it just feels quite cool. It's not massively complicated, so if this doesn't make sense I'll upload a video.

Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:^^ haha. does it look pretty much like this? maybe with a few less "beats/circles"...

http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showpho...=500&page=1
br>
-- dut


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Tom_Shill
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 213
Posted:ahem... redface yeah more or less, just backwards and with less circles. *Goes and stands in the corner*

Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:Why stand in the corner? Those are great planes to work in and out of... Just because it's not technically a multibeat TTN, doesn't mean the pattern is worthless. You could do the 4BT TTN for a 3 pr 4 seconds and then expand it with a few spins, either over the shoulder or under the arm, and then back to the 4BT.

This thread has put me on a MISSION to clean up my 4BT TTN forward and reverse.

I want to figure out how to smoothly use those reaching across BTB planes mentioned above.
I want to be able to move forward and backward with this move.
And I know there's some forearm and handwraps burried in here too.

It's going to take a month


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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by: Tom_Shill

ahem... redface yeah more or less, just backwards and with less circles. *Goes and stands in the corner*



hey, if it weren't for you i would have forgotten this has a backwards. wink it is funny that you talk about a move like 5 posts under the guy who asks to go see what his move is in the gallery. homeofpoi connects people to the collective unconscious more than anything i think. ubbloco

-- dut


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Tom_Shill
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 213
Posted:I uploaded a video anyway, just in case your backwards is different to mine. wink

Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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