Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > wrists v. shoulders
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Posted:
I am new and trying to correct my mistakes before they happen. I wanted to inquire about how much (when first starting) of one's movement should be in the wrists and how much in the shoulders. of course, i know i am not supposed to be a stiff board, but when im swinging forweard and backward, where should the control be? Sorry for a dumb question
I am new and trying to correct my mistakes before they happen. I wanted to inquire about how much (when first starting) of one's movement should be in the wrists and how much in the shoulders. of course, i know i am not supposed to be a stiff board, but when im swinging forweard and backward, where should the control be? Sorry for a dumb question
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with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Posted:
Don't worry, its never easy starting out!
The movements should come from the wrists, although in 'giant moves' they sometimes come from the sholders.
Have you found the free lessons on this site yet? there is a link at the top of the page.
Also this book is great click me!
Good luck, happy spinning!
Don't worry, its never easy starting out!
The movements should come from the wrists, although in 'giant moves' they sometimes come from the sholders.
Have you found the free lessons on this site yet? there is a link at the top of the page.
Also this book is great click me!
Good luck, happy spinning!
Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.
“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
SILVER Member
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Posted:
Get the Yuta and Devilishly Yers videos, & study em.
Bad habits to avoid:
Rushing - it's fine to try something quickly until you get it down, as often you have to force your body to do a move & then your muscles will remember it, but it's easy to spin too fast all the time & end up a sloppy mess. Once you have a move down, make sure you can do it as slowly as the poi will physically go & still spin. This will help you get a feel for the movement and is good practice for any physical skill.
Messy planes - planes are where the poi are spinning relative to you ie if you're doing a weave they should be parallel with your arms, butterfly should be perpenicular to that etc. Make sure they're not wandering on the exit of moves (I'm having trouble with my left poi going off by itself after double wraps atm), and try spinning in a restricted space to help clean them up.
Timing, timing, timing - This isn't mentioned very much, but timing is hugely important. Moves should not have cheeky extra spins added in to return to regular timing (usually weave), unless absolutely necessary, or deliberate. Practice with music wherever possible, and if you've practiced moves to the point where you can do them really slowly (anyone can go fast) you should have enough control over the poi to fit them to a beat. Also pay attention to what the song's doing - is it a slow buildup, a fast hectic bit etc, cause songs are (conciously or not) usually written around an 'emotional contour' ie they'll build in intensity to a crescendo and then wind down. This is a useful trick for performance & will help keep shows interesting.
Disclaimer; these are all observations & my opinion, I'm not actually very good at all.
Get the Yuta and Devilishly Yers videos, & study em.
Bad habits to avoid:
Rushing - it's fine to try something quickly until you get it down, as often you have to force your body to do a move & then your muscles will remember it, but it's easy to spin too fast all the time & end up a sloppy mess. Once you have a move down, make sure you can do it as slowly as the poi will physically go & still spin. This will help you get a feel for the movement and is good practice for any physical skill.
Messy planes - planes are where the poi are spinning relative to you ie if you're doing a weave they should be parallel with your arms, butterfly should be perpenicular to that etc. Make sure they're not wandering on the exit of moves (I'm having trouble with my left poi going off by itself after double wraps atm), and try spinning in a restricted space to help clean them up.
Timing, timing, timing - This isn't mentioned very much, but timing is hugely important. Moves should not have cheeky extra spins added in to return to regular timing (usually weave), unless absolutely necessary, or deliberate. Practice with music wherever possible, and if you've practiced moves to the point where you can do them really slowly (anyone can go fast) you should have enough control over the poi to fit them to a beat. Also pay attention to what the song's doing - is it a slow buildup, a fast hectic bit etc, cause songs are (conciously or not) usually written around an 'emotional contour' ie they'll build in intensity to a crescendo and then wind down. This is a useful trick for performance & will help keep shows interesting.
Disclaimer; these are all observations & my opinion, I'm not actually very good at all.
addict
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
577 posts
Location: Oregon, USA
Posted:
Good words from the folks above. But to emphasize the answer to your question, wrist control is *very* important. Once you gather wrist control and being able to direct the poi with wrist movements alone, you will find movements become much much easier and the chances of smacking yourself in the face decrease dramatically!
If you have problems trying to figure something out, start with figuring out what your wrists need to be doing.
That's been my experience anyway.
Good words from the folks above. But to emphasize the answer to your question, wrist control is *very* important. Once you gather wrist control and being able to direct the poi with wrist movements alone, you will find movements become much much easier and the chances of smacking yourself in the face decrease dramatically!
If you have problems trying to figure something out, start with figuring out what your wrists need to be doing.
That's been my experience anyway.
Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.
Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"
newbie
5 posts
5 posts
Posted:
So, I am watching the videos and trying to figure it out.
https://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons/poi_lessons.php/poi/4
So, with videos like that, it seems like more than just the wrists are moving and I'm having a hard time figuring out where that movement is coming from. Help?
So, I am watching the videos and trying to figure it out.
https://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons/poi_lessons.php/poi/4
So, with videos like that, it seems like more than just the wrists are moving and I'm having a hard time figuring out where that movement is coming from. Help?
SILVER Member
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
with added berries
1,365 posts
Location: Manchester, England (UK)
Posted:
Thats not really a very good example. when spinning just forwards circles, your arms should be by your sides and all the movement and control coming from your wrists. Don't worry too much about it at this stage, it will come naturally with practice.
Thats not really a very good example. when spinning just forwards circles, your arms should be by your sides and all the movement and control coming from your wrists. Don't worry too much about it at this stage, it will come naturally with practice.
Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.
“What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.”
Ralph Waldo Emerson
SILVER Member
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Posted:
In that video most of the movement is from the fingers, and his shoulders are moving as a result of the weight of the poi.
Fingers & wrists are used equally, and shoulders also. I wouldn't worry too much about this, it's not really something that can't be worked on later. Once you have the basic moves down & can improvise a bit, then worry about the finer parts of control. Until then your brain won't be reading the movements accurately enough to get it properly smooth anyway.
Written by: dollish
So, I am watching the videos and trying to figure it out.
https://www.homeofpoi.com/lessons/poi_lessons.php/poi/4
So, with videos like that, it seems like more than just the wrists are moving and I'm having a hard time figuring out where that movement is coming from. Help?
In that video most of the movement is from the fingers, and his shoulders are moving as a result of the weight of the poi.
Fingers & wrists are used equally, and shoulders also. I wouldn't worry too much about this, it's not really something that can't be worked on later. Once you have the basic moves down & can improvise a bit, then worry about the finer parts of control. Until then your brain won't be reading the movements accurately enough to get it properly smooth anyway.
newbie
5 posts
5 posts
Posted:
does anyone know of a better (free) video to demonstratate what is going on in the hands? Doesnt the body, like paper, have memory? and if something is learned incorrectly, then it is difficult to break? I'm taking things slowly but my shoulders are still (good) soar at the end of my practice sessions. I am practicing for about half an hour - hour every day. Just forward, backward, x-overs, and split time
does anyone know of a better (free) video to demonstratate what is going on in the hands? Doesnt the body, like paper, have memory? and if something is learned incorrectly, then it is difficult to break? I'm taking things slowly but my shoulders are still (good) soar at the end of my practice sessions. I am practicing for about half an hour - hour every day. Just forward, backward, x-overs, and split time
110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
3,149 posts
Location: London
3,149 posts
Location: London
Posted:
i really wouldn't worry about totally copying the mechanics of someone elses movement. That's an excellent way to get bad habits. Instead, concentrate on how the poi are moving.
Check the poi are staying in line with each other, not pointing together or apart.
Check that they're keeping a fairly constant speed. It's common for the part of the circle where the head is going upwards to be slower than when it's going down. You can compensate by giving slightly more 'zing' at the bottom of the circle.
And check they're going in nice circular shapes, rather than wobbly ones.
A big mirror will help.
i really wouldn't worry about totally copying the mechanics of someone elses movement. That's an excellent way to get bad habits. Instead, concentrate on how the poi are moving.
Check the poi are staying in line with each other, not pointing together or apart.
Check that they're keeping a fairly constant speed. It's common for the part of the circle where the head is going upwards to be slower than when it's going down. You can compensate by giving slightly more 'zing' at the bottom of the circle.
And check they're going in nice circular shapes, rather than wobbly ones.
A big mirror will help.
Written by:Yes, it can be. i made a [Old link].
if something is learned incorrectly, then it is difficult to break?
"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."
SILVER Member
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
not with cactus
2,052 posts
Location: bristol/ southern eastern devon, United Kingdom
Posted:
you can control the spinning of your poi with your wrists, fingers, elbows, or shoulders or a mixture of all of these pivot points. it depends what moves that you are trying as to exactly what the mixture is and many moves can be done using differnt mixtures.. i have noticed that when people first pick up poi that there is a tendancy to spin cirlces at there sides, in wheel plane... as in the weave, using there whole arm, and i think is important to be able to do clean wheel plane circles usuing just your wrists.
but it is not something that you really need to think about, just keep spinning and the control will come.
you can control the spinning of your poi with your wrists, fingers, elbows, or shoulders or a mixture of all of these pivot points. it depends what moves that you are trying as to exactly what the mixture is and many moves can be done using differnt mixtures.. i have noticed that when people first pick up poi that there is a tendancy to spin cirlces at there sides, in wheel plane... as in the weave, using there whole arm, and i think is important to be able to do clean wheel plane circles usuing just your wrists.
but it is not something that you really need to think about, just keep spinning and the control will come.
Me train running low on soul coal
They push+pull tactics are driving me loco
They shouldn't do that no no no
SILVER Member
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
4,030 posts
Location: Bali, Australia
Posted:
Well said, Simian and Oli.
When I show newbies, I make the poi do circles parallel to the ground (floor plane?). After the tiniest initial 'push off' the poi will move for ages by themselves, with nothing of the body moving at all.
That shows that actually a huge amount of the movement comes from the momentum of the poi themselves.. trying to 'push the poi' makes people go silly fast and overstate their movements.. (also makes the inevitable thwacking harder on the face/ears/nose or wherever it ends up!)
Then I get them to do nice clean front and side circles with just as little 'movement'. Shanti shanti minimum movement maximum awareness.
Well said, Simian and Oli.
When I show newbies, I make the poi do circles parallel to the ground (floor plane?). After the tiniest initial 'push off' the poi will move for ages by themselves, with nothing of the body moving at all.
That shows that actually a huge amount of the movement comes from the momentum of the poi themselves.. trying to 'push the poi' makes people go silly fast and overstate their movements.. (also makes the inevitable thwacking harder on the face/ears/nose or wherever it ends up!)
Then I get them to do nice clean front and side circles with just as little 'movement'. Shanti shanti minimum movement maximum awareness.
.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....
SILVER Member
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Posted:
Bad habits can be hard to break, but if you catch them early enough it's not too difficult (had to change the way I held my plectrum after 3 years of guitar, that took about 6 months to get back to normal).
But with poi it's far more useful to progress quickly and neaten up as you go. Learn the weave forward & backwards, the windmill both ways, and turns to & from all of those. Then work on low windmill, butterfly moves etc and start improvising. When you get to the more advanced stuff spend some time cleaning up the old hat stuff until planes etc are perfect.
Economy of movement is important later on, but will be difficult to learn from the word go. I find it much easier to clean up a sloppy move than to learn something perfect first time. If you spend too much time just spinning the basics and not experimenting you won't discover an awful lot of stuff that happens accidentally.
It's a performance art, not a science
Bad habits can be hard to break, but if you catch them early enough it's not too difficult (had to change the way I held my plectrum after 3 years of guitar, that took about 6 months to get back to normal).
But with poi it's far more useful to progress quickly and neaten up as you go. Learn the weave forward & backwards, the windmill both ways, and turns to & from all of those. Then work on low windmill, butterfly moves etc and start improvising. When you get to the more advanced stuff spend some time cleaning up the old hat stuff until planes etc are perfect.
Economy of movement is important later on, but will be difficult to learn from the word go. I find it much easier to clean up a sloppy move than to learn something perfect first time. If you spend too much time just spinning the basics and not experimenting you won't discover an awful lot of stuff that happens accidentally.
It's a performance art, not a science
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