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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:I was wondering something... is it automatically bad karma to choose not to do something that is good karma?



For instance, if I see someone doing something that is good karma, which I could go and help them do, but I choose not to, is that automatically bad karma?



This one's open whether you believe in karma or not... theoretically, in a karmic system, is it bad to ignore an opportunity to do good?


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Daiz
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

Daiz

Radioactive Member
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Total posts: 106
Posted:Not at all, it just depends on how you see it; for example, say you beat someone up for no reason, karma will beat you back up, metaphorically speaking, but if you give someone in need money, everything will seem to go right for a while.

Karma is mostly a psychological way to motivate yourself to do things with morality, but even if nothing really good DOES even happen at all, you will see little things that you are greatful for, and you will want to do it more.

The best way to feel good, is to make someone else feel good, it's completely mutual, and that person may want to do the same thing, which if you think about it, can make you feel even BETTER, watching their reaction, rather than the guilt of wrong-doing to make you fear what will beat you up in return.


I'm gonna cut you up so bad, you gonna wish I ain't cut you up so bad.

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CrazyHippyChick
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

errrrrr what?
Location: cloud 9, United Kingdom

Total posts: 198
Posted:there is no such thing as good karma or bad karma. karma works in a continuous cycle. you can not conciously give yourself "good karma" if you carry out an action to look good then your motivations are not true but selfish.

I'll come back as fire and burn all the liars and leave a blanket of ashes on the ground.
I could write the new bridget jones diary only mine would be more bizarre, funnier, dirtier more unbelievabe and bloody true!

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Daiz
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

Daiz

Radioactive Member
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Total posts: 106
Posted:Written by: CrazyHippyChick

there is no such thing as good karma or bad karma. karma works in a continuous cycle. you can not conciously give yourself "good karma" if you carry out an action to look good then your motivations are not true but selfish.



Maybe we have a special connection, lol.
ubbloco <--------> ubbloco


I'm gonna cut you up so bad, you gonna wish I ain't cut you up so bad.

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:karma is action.

Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Daiz
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

Daiz

Radioactive Member
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Total posts: 106
Posted:Written by: bender

karma is action.



WOW. That is the most vague explanation I have ever heard, lol. Read my earlier posts.


I'm gonna cut you up so bad, you gonna wish I ain't cut you up so bad.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Karma is also non-action... tongue

And reading the previous posts will take faaaaar tooooo much time - maybe everyone edits their posts and clears out all the rubbish? wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Theo_
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Theo_

Dirty Hippie
Location: Norwich Norfolk, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 347
Posted:my name is earl really springs to mind...

i think karma does exist. but only because you do something good to make yourself feel better, and if you do something bad, then i guess you would feel bad about. unless you don't care, then it doesn't matter weather you beleive in karma or not. having good karma would be if you do alot of good things, this then makes you feel better about your self and so you are happier.


for every minute angry, you loose 60 seconds of happiness

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:Written by: Daiz

Written by: bender

karma is action.


WOW. That is the most vague explanation I have ever heard, lol.


why thank you.
it is a simple statement to read,
it has taken all my life to understand*

Written by: Daiz

Read my earlier posts.


yes, thank you i have.
nice hat u have there.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Daiz
BRONZE Member since Feb 2006

Daiz

Radioactive Member
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Total posts: 106
Posted:Written by: bender

Written by: Daiz

Written by: bender

karma is action.


WOW. That is the most vague explanation I have ever heard, lol.


why thank you.
it is a simple statement to read,
it has taken all my life to understand*

Written by: Daiz

Read my earlier posts.


yes, thank you i have.
nice hat u have there.



Lol, nice to feel accepted. ubblol


I'm gonna cut you up so bad, you gonna wish I ain't cut you up so bad.

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CrazyHippyChick
SILVER Member since Jul 2004

errrrrr what?
Location: cloud 9, United Kingdom

Total posts: 198
Posted:daiz are you being mean to me?

I'll come back as fire and burn all the liars and leave a blanket of ashes on the ground.
I could write the new bridget jones diary only mine would be more bizarre, funnier, dirtier more unbelievabe and bloody true!

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daize
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

daize

member
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (U...

Total posts: 175
Posted:It's all relative.

If I were to dent a guys car and not leave a note with my insurance details on it. The chances of that guy doing the same thing if he ever found himself in that situation are greatly increased, just out of resentment from my behaviour. Thus begins the chain of dominos, chances are the person he then dents, will also do the same negative thing.

It also works with the positives. Smile at atleast one stranger a day, hopefully they will do the same....


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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:I like that, good thoughts smile

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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daize
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

daize

member
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (U...

Total posts: 175
Posted:I forgot the mention: that it should eventually come back round to initial guy.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:what daize described is part of the central premise of the moving picture 'pay it forward' - a film that absolutely rocks ubblove

and speaking of things that rock, so does 'my name is earl', cos its got jason lee and ethan suplee in it, along with just the right amount of cheese to make me smile, every episode, guaranteed.


the good old 'do unto others...' line is the one i try to keep in the front of my mind.

it is a concept that appears in just about every religion/spiritual system and for good reason - its possibly the most morally inspiring line in existance.

unless of course you are a masochist of course wink


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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daize
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

daize

member
Location: Falmouth, Cornwall, England (U...

Total posts: 175
Posted:pay it forward...eh? Never heard of it, might look into watching it some day.

My name is earl, is so funny! I like it 'cos it's soft.

Yup I agree with Coleman, don't live you life running away from karma... Just try and be a better person.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:May I say that Karma seems to be a self regulating, self adjusting and timeless law that makes you face your own behaviour on a different level... ?

*Is this a deja vu?*

However, do the "Laws of Karma" vary, depending upon the moral foundation of which they derive from? For example a Jaina has very strict morals and would not even keep an object that has not been given to him as a gift. (He would not keep something that he found on the street, or in the desert)... Now tell me, if you'd find water in a closed barrel in the desert, what you do?... ubbangel

In egytian mythology the soul has to be as light as a feather to pass on to paradise (except if you had the right scroll/ mantra on you.... wink )...

Question: who is the judge? peace devil

Going a little offtopic redface are we to "judge" ourselves in the final judgement (if something like this exists at all)... looking at our own lives from a very different angle, knowing all our intentions behind our own non/action... that'd be a scary thought sometimes, wouldn't it? wink

By the way: Ever heard of "Karma Yoga"? umm


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:OK, time for my really over-simplistic and probably wrong concepton of Karma, based on my few readings of Hinduism, is that Karma translates as action, and Dharma as duty. We perform an action, and that action is relative to Dharma - what we are supposed to do (like certain laws). If they match we're sweet with the universe, but if we ignore our duties then we get a slap on the wrist relative to our intentions..



Right, who'll be first to tell me I'm wrong? redface



But anyway, in this sense bad karma is a bad action, for which you get a slap. And good karma is a good action, which is all good with the universe. Hence my initial question was did I act wrongly to miss an opportunity to help someone?



But I realise most conceptions of Karma that have been used in this thread are somehow different to mine... but I think the points are all equally valid.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Total posts: 380
Posted: Written by: _kevlarsoul_


But anyway, in this sense bad karma is a bad action, for which you get a slap. And good karma is a good action, which is all good with the universe. Hence my initial question was did I act wrongly to miss an opportunity to help someone?

But I realise most conceptions of Karma that have been used in this thread are somehow different to mine... but I think the points are all equally valid.



there's the rub: you never know your duty. maybe your Dharma was to to take no action on that opportunity and think hard about why you didn't so you're ready to next time. now instead of stopping to help that one person, you're gonna stop and think hard about helping every other person you see. if you'd "done your good deed for the day" and moved on without thinking back on the situation, would you be thinking about it this much now?


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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:Good points Dut...

What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:so if I could act in order to help someone, but don't - what kind of karma is created with this "non-action"? I'm not acting (at all)... Just laid back and observing.... would this still create "karma"?

also if I do something good, just for the sake of feeling good and not because I am convinced that this action is the right thing to do: does it really create good karma then?

Many bad deeds have been committed with best faith and help is not always helpful... sometimes (!) it might be better not to help, so the person is able to develop their own strength and can come to the point to help her/himself AND others...

Karma is a strange thing and so is "help"...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:In order:

Yes, because non-action is the same as action in terms of what you do/don't do, I think. If it is better not to act, so you odn't act, that's good karma, seems to me.

If you do something good just for the sake of it, then if that action has a negative effect on others/the universe then no, that's still bad karma. If it has a positive effect, I'm not sure that is good karma because it wasn't intended on your part. Just because your action does good, you were doing it for selfish reasons alone.

The learning by yourself thing is hard. Because sometimes it is better not to act and let people learn for themselves. Sometimes it's better to intervene and help when struggling. You have to make a judgement about what you think is right, I think and about what you think is a good action (or non-action) on your part. Then follow your belief.

None of this is to say that we don't need to do things which are bad karma sometimes to learn from our mistakes.. harking back to what Dut said, I guess.


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Total posts: 380
Posted: Written by: _kevlarsoul_


None of this is to say that we don't need to do things which are bad karma sometimes to learn from our mistakes.. harking back to what Dut said, I guess.



hmm. when i think of "mistakes" i think of intances where i didn't remember the correct action in time. if i never knew the correct action to begin with, how can it be a "mistake"? that brings me to something else you guys made me think about -- "teach a man to fish and he'll live forever". if you see someone (including yourself) making a mistake and just correct them on it in a way that's not going to help them in the future, there's a chance they won't learn from it.

all in all, there was probably multiple reasons you didn't offer whatever "help" we're talking about, only some of which were possibly selfish (in terms of time, effort or whatever). you went with your gut and are left questioning morals instead of in bad shape for getting caught up in someone else's business. if you see a situation where you're well suited to help, have the time, and can't see how it can _possibly_ hurt you to help, you're probably not being imaginative enough. ubblol


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I have no idea what Frane Selak has done in his previous life, but karma seems to have a certain - umm let's say a funny relationship with this man, born to be a croatian music teacher... read for yourself:

 Written by: wikipedia

In January, 1962, for example, Selak was traveling via train from Sarajevo to Dubrovnik. However, the train had suddenly derailed and plunged into an icy river, killing 17 passengers. Selak managed to escape, and only suffered a broken arm and minor scrapes and bruises.

The following year, while traveling from Zagreb to Rijeka when the door blew away from the cockpit, forcing him out of the plane. Although 19 others were killed, he suffered only minor injuries and had miraculously landed in a haystack.

In 1966, he was riding on a bus that crashed and plunged into a river. Four others were killed, but Selak managed to escape unharmed.

In 1970, he managed to escape before a faulty fuel pump engulfed his car into flames.

In 1973, another of Selak's cars caught fire, forcing fire through the air vents. He suffered no injuries save the loss of most of his hair.

In 1995, he was hit by a city bus, but once again suffered minor injuries.

In 1996 he escaped when he drove off a cliff to escape an oncoming truck. He managed to land in a tree, and watch as his car exploded 300 feet below him.

In 2003 he won $1,000,000 dollars, and had stated that "I know God was watching me over all these years." He has reputedly refused to fly to Australia to air on a Doritos commercial, saying he "didn't want to test his luck."

He has said that he can either be looked as "the world's unluckiest man, or the world's luckiest man," and prefers the latter.

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frane_Selak"



Now tell me whether Karma works in mysterious ways or not...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted:This sounds like a riddle, although I realise it;s not. My answer would've been "Was he driving in all these?" ubblol

I'd certainly go with "World's luckiest man"! Perhaps he had a very boring past few lives, so this one will make up for it? ubblol great stuff FT biggrin


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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bender
GOLD Member since Nov 2001

still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 6979
Posted:please read up on past life karma - we are not reborn with a blank slate.
The Buddhist model of rebirth is repesented by a six realms of existence (humans being one of them)
what spiritual merit you can accrue in each life -for the purposes of this discussion, your karma- determines where you are reborn, learning the lesson and gaining merit with each life until such time as you awaken into nirvana, the sublime state that no longer requires that you are reborn (though you can come back to help as a bodhichitta, to choose to return to the world of suffering to be compassionate to others - what a wonderful gift)

being born into the human realm is a great blessing as it is understood to be the greatest opportunity to gain merit (it is actually harder to gain merit, karma to be born for example in the realm of demigods, as you would be too happy to progress into nirvana, so it is not unusual for a demigod to be reborn into a 'lower' realm)

please do not look upon a person's cruel experience in life as proof that karma is an invalid, unfair concept.
the popular interpretation of karma is skewed by what we consider to be 'bad' and 'good' phenomena - therefore we should always be mindful of how subjective our interpretation of what is 'good' or 'bad' karma.

What buddhism is trying to convey with it's model of karma is that you should use your understanding to be mindful in every moment to act in the Right Way, with compassion.
We are not here on this planet for that long. we can use that time to collectively make our time here as beautiful & enriching as possible, using an understanding of karma to guide us how to do it.
It is that goal that i find to be the most important lesson karma has to teach us.
that and eating vegemite.
mmmm


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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biggins
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

biggins

member
Location: In Bed, New Zealand

Total posts: 165
Posted: Written by: _kevlarsoul_


I was wondering something... is it automatically bad karma to choose not to do something that is good karma?

For instance, if I see someone doing something that is good karma, which I could go and help them do, but I choose not to, is that automatically bad karma?





in many situations, you *know* "the right thing to do", if you dont do it, you will feel a bit [censored] about it, consciously or subconsciousy. its your decision.

...the karma police never sleep


Wielding a Wooden Spoon

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biggins
SILVER Member since Sep 2002

biggins

member
Location: In Bed, New Zealand

Total posts: 165
Posted:sorry that sunded a bit sinister, it wasnt meant to be....as someone above said (in my mind): its about being aware of your decisions....

kind of like you "reap what you sow".....[censored] that sounds dark sa well...but it needn't be


Wielding a Wooden Spoon

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nearly_all_gone
SILVER Member since Aug 2004

nearly_all_gone

Pooh-Bah
Location: Southampton, United Kingdom

Total posts: 1626
Posted: Written by: bender

we should always be mindful of how subjective our interpretation of what is 'good' or 'bad' karma.



That was FT's point too, about the guy who's been in millions of accidents and considers himself the luckiest man alive smile


What a wonderful miracle if only we could look through each other's eyes for an instant.
Thoreau

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