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Forums > Social Discussion > God, what's the nature of... ?

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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Definition of god...



Written by: wikipedia
God is the term used to denote the Supreme Being ascribed by monotheistic religions to be the creator, ruler and/or the sum total of, existence. Conceptions of God vary widely, despite the common use of the same term for them all.





Or according to Dictionary.com



Written by: Dictionary.com
God

A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.



The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.



A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.



An image of a supernatural being; an idol.



One that is worshiped, idealized, or followed: Money was their god.



A very handsome man.



A powerful ruler or despot.





"God" is a term that is used by many to decribe something totally different. Just as "love" I consider the word "god" to be as one of the least defined.



What's your conception/ understanding of "the supreme being"?



Tell me/us... To you: is it a "very handsome, perfect man, ruling the universe"? Or is it more the "universal life force" - as in my personal understanding - that is in all beings and objects that exist/ don't exist... ???


EDITED_BY: FireTom (1139497747)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:@ majestic: it might have been coming across sarcastic, but "the flying spagetti monster" to me is as valid as the "ultimate love"...

@ beefy: the religious definition of "god" requires you to be thankful and worship - this is temple-dogma... who, besides them tell you that you have to go to church/ worship him/ be thankful of anything? I follow your generation-argument... would just not be so easy if you're immortal...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Old Jewish proverb:

"If God lived on Earth, people would break his windows"


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


dream
dream

currently mending
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 15th Jul 2003
Total posts: 493
Posted:written by Jeff(fake)Written by:


As to the subject of Badness, I think that it is always going to suck to bang your toe. The strange thing about human existance is that we can all agree largely on what is good and bad. It's hardwired into us. It could have been completely different, but it wasn't.





Its a question of subjectivity, and a massive part of it is cultural conditioning, which itself is constantly changing.

A few hundred years ago it was considered morally acceptable to have slaves, and summarily shoot them - blacks were considered subhuman savages. In todays society this view is no longer considered to be morally reasonable (though traces of old views still filter through - we aren't at a stage of racial tolerance in the West - but things have gotten a lot better)


He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.

Nietzsche


jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:oops, Sorry Loki!

I really do reccommend reading Conversations with God, its fantastic biggrin


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.


Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:I cannot possibly read this all right now. Will later. I loved the can of worms tho... biggrin

My own opinion: God is simply any being who exists naturally with four spatial dimensions or higher. As such there could be many gods, or one, or none. Why would any being existing in four spatial dimensions be god? Because our time (The 4th dimension) would be perceived by them as solid, and, as such, they would know everything that happens in our lives in one of their instants. Feel free to pick it apart I like refining it.

Another totally different take worth looking at if no one has brought it up...



" She remembered WIggan telling her what gods would be like. Real gods would want to teach you how to be just like them. Why would he say such a thing? How could he know what a god would be?

Somebody who wants to teach you how to know everything that they do and do everything that they know- what he was really describing was parents, not gods.

Only there were plenty of parents who didn't do that.....

So what Wiggan was describing wasn't parents, really. He was describing good parents. He wasn't telling her what gods were, he was telling her what goodness was. To want other people to grow. To want other people to have all the good things that you have. And to spare them the bad things if you can. That was goodness.

What were gods. then? They would want everyone else to know and have and be all good things. They would teach and share and train, but never force."



-Xenocide, 432-433.

There's a lot to consider there... and a lot of implicit assumptions, but also a lot that rings true in terms of society and how we see things at least in the western world....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:nice one Kyrian - I like it... conversations with god I haven't read - heard the background came across like very christian...



Small interview with god... wink



Different people have different perceprions or ideas about what god is and what god means to them - not only by culture and religious background - I am certain that within any society, every individual has it's own understanding and picture of who or what god actually is.



This is one step from "what it actually means"...



@jeff:



Written by: jeff(fake)
As to the subject of Badness, I think that it is always going to suck to bang your toe. The strange thing about human existance is that we can all agree largely on what is good and bad. It's hardwired into us. It could have been completely different, but it wasn't.





And this I really do want to oppose... It's not hardwired in(to) us... I see pictures of children-soldiers, I hear stories about the holocaust, about atrocities in Australia, Africa, Asia, the Americas and all over Europe. Good and Bad is nothing that is hardwired anywhere in the human soul... it's the reality that makes the morality... eventually wink

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1139419725)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Sym
Sym

Geek-enviro-hippy priest
Location: Diss, Norfolk
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Total posts: 1858
Posted:Written by: Kyrian
My own opinion: God is simply any being who exists naturally with four spatial dimensions or higher.







Just to help me usderstand you more, are you talking about _anything_ that is in 4 dimansions? IE, are you saying that you or I or anything (people, rocks etc) are "god"?



I do, after all, exist in 4 dimensions...3D space and time and the 4th


There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees


Kyrian
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Location: York, England
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Total posts: 4308
Posted:Key word: Spatial.

Reread. Sorry, quoting takes me awhile....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


i8beefy2
i8beefy2

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Posted:I think EXISTING in higher than four planes is redundent. Assuming that the matrice-style of explanation of forces as different dimensions is accurate (field theory), then everything in existence exists on every plane. It is simply a matter of what dimensions the being functions on at that point, ie we function on the spatial / time planes, however we are still affected by the electro-magnetic, gravitational, weak and strong nuclear forces, etc. etc.

That seems to be the line of thinking Kryian is using... There was a book a while ago that tried to debunk this idea that there can BE conscious beings such as these (ie, when this theory came out, eveyone started saying ghosts just existed on a different plane, thus could walk through walls, fly, etc. but were doing nothing wierd on their own plane). For instance, if someone could rotate along one of these other planes, it would appear that you suddenly blinked out of existence (like taking a sheet of paper that is strictly 2-dimensional and turning it sideways through the 3rd dimension). I havn't read it. But supposedly it is good...

But technically speaking, we ALL exist on all possible planes. To even begin to try and talk about something that DOESN'T is meaningless because you have the entire issue of interaction (if they don't share a plane / existential being, then there can be no interaction thus to speak of them as "gods" to us is pointless since they can't, necessarily, interact or do anything on our planes). Strictly speaking, any extra-dimensional beings then are simply other beings, not "gods".

But you can call em that I guess. smile



Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:Are you talking about planes, or dimensions. There is a difference.

Imagine two sheets of paper stacked, one on top of another. These are different planes of existence. A square drawn on one of them does not exist on the other. However, a cube can intersect both pieces of paper and thus "exist" on both at the same time. Or it can move up and down and exist on only one or the other.

Extradimensional beings (aliens, angels, God, whatever else you can think of) would perhaps have the ability to move in and out of our dimensional "plane" in order to interact with us. We don't all have to constantly exist on all planes.



i8beefy2
i8beefy2

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Posted:Im talking dimensions. Planear geometry (if thats a word) was just convenient to express myself.

Dimensions are more a way of expressing distortion of space-time. ie. any particle can be fully expressed through (something like) 10 or 12 dimensions. Think of it like a big ten x ten chart (ten dimensions). We can express spacial dimensions in a three x three chart. Add time and you have a four x four chart. Add in gravity, weak and strong nuclear forces, electro-magnetic forces, etc. and you come up with somewhere around 10 I believe. I read about it in a string theory book a few years ago... not sure where the field has developed since then, but as I said, this was all the rage for explaining ghosts, angels, etc. back in the day.

Essentially, any physical FORCE is caused by a warping of space-time: another dimension. As an example take a two dimensional world. Now fold it in half. Any being moving about in this two dimensional world would experience a wierd field / force at the presence of the fold in his world. Then it got real complicated and I got real confused... something about all these dimensions rolling up into balls and stuff and thus being too small for us to measure (so far).

Of course string theory is neither here nor there... strictly speaking its a HYPOTHESIS and not a theory... which lands it solidly in metaphysics and easy conjecture. smile Besides theres like ten different "string theories" predicting 10, 11, or 26 dimensions, so take your pick.

I really think theres a book out there that explains why "extradimensional beings" wouldn't work this way, but I'm havin a tough time finding it... Anyway, I read "The Elegant Universe" back in the day which is where Im pulling most of this from.

==

Umm... ok you can return to your thread now... I forget what my point was. smile



FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:thanks.. smile

Sorry I changed the title - spank me... but this is what this thread is about... and this is not my native language... shrug

forgive me...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

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Member Since: 29th May 2005
Total posts: 131
Posted:I don't understand why everyone takes Genesis so literally. It has been scientifically proven that the world was not created in six days.



Also, the Old Testament, comprising of the Torah & the Tanakh was originally written in Hebrew, the language of G-d. Even Xtians accept this.

The literal translation from Hebrew to English is impossible to write down - the language is very complicated compared to English, but the best approximation is 'and He called them Eve and He called them Adam', so they were not neccesarily singular, but its more of a blanket statement as in, and G-d made Man and G-d made Woman.



Also, the tree wasn't a tree, it was the two main parts of Kabbalah...I don't know how to post pictures, so my explanation isn't going to be great. The tree of Life is the whole thing, the tree of Knowledge is the bit that runs up the middle. At the root of the tree is G-d, and the branches lead down to us. Anywho, not important. To get to G-d, you have to go up through the branches, through the tree of life, through all lifes little tests etc until you can eventually reach G-d, but its just like a computer game. You have to go throuh the levels to be good enough to reach the big boss at the end. Or you could type in a password that takes you the last bit, but you won't be good enough to face the boss.



The path up the middle is Kabbalah, the tree of Knowledge, and it was this that the 'serpant' taught the first civilisation. So they thought they could get to G-d, but they would never be worthy, so they got stuck.



Now, Xtian scholars say Jesus was sent to save us from that first sin, so by opening the gate, he got us past where we were stuck on the tree of knowledge - showed us the way along the branches so to speak, so we could get into heaven.



I however am not a Xtian and don't believe this.



But, most people can't get their heads round this, so the church publically sticks to the Apple and Serpent theory.



And somehow, thats where good and bad come from or something or other...



Now, its the theory on Noahs Ark and genetical engineering thats the best, but we'll save that for another time.....



Lou x

EDITED_BY: Gremlin LouLou (1139513004)


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)


Kyrian
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Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Not to mention "adam" vs "a man" when translating..... etc, etc.

still have to catch, up, sorry guys, will do so soon!


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
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Posted:rolleyes

@ Gremlin: Read the "Evolution vs Intelligent Design thread" wink biggrin


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
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Posted:Thanks for that input LouLou... right now there are a number of threads interacting so it seems... this one, "free willy" and the one Sethis mentioned...

It's getting interesting in here bounce keep coming... clap


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


i8beefy2
i8beefy2

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Posted:Written by: Gremlin LouLou

To get to G-d, you have to go up through the branches, through the tree of life, through all lifes little tests etc until you can eventually reach G-d, but its just like a computer game. You have to go throuh the levels to be good enough to reach the big boss at the end. Or you could type in a password that takes you the last bit, but you won't be good enough to face the boss.




I don't know, I'm pretty good at video games. I bet I could take him. Bring it on God!

smile



Kyrian
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Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:- Is "good and bad" a valid concept, or is it based on personal opinion and experience?
Both. It means differnet things to different people and different societies at different times. Nonetheless, it is a valid concept, with different meanings, I think, if that makes sense?

- Is some rain necessary in order to appreciate sunshine?
Yes. yes yes yes yes yes.

- Is it necessary to believe in a higher force in order to survive/ get/ be happy?
Thats a neat question, actually. Because one odd fallback is I'm convinced everything that happens is the right thing to have happened for no particular reason. This goes a long way towards helping me be happy in the face of unhappy circumstances, in a way that people who truly belive in randomness and chance seem, well, less content with. But my gut reaction is no, and I think the answer is no- you just need to be at peace with what it is you do belive about life, and etc.

- Is belief/ religion just a psychological trick to control each other or is it the very own mind that tries to put pieces/ evidence together and complete the missing links by it's own imagination?
belief is the second, religion can be either.

- Why do have different cultures a different concept of what, or who "god" is?
Because differnet cultures have a different understanding of a lot of things! (And, one would expect to draw, because there is no right answer to what god is, perhaps?)

- Would it be logical to assume, that "there is one force governing the universe"?
Depends on your definition of one, I think.

- Is "god" the (only) neverchanging element in the universe?
No... physics seem to be going pretty well, even if our understanding changes sometimes. And who says "god" doesn't change?

- Is it the desire of men, to create something that prevails? Or the desire of women to lean on something?
Why the sexist attitudes? I think some people do desire to lean on things, and they get trapped in the trappings of religion. Some people desire to make things prevail, and some of them get involved in the high-ups of religions, or start new ones. Some have these things and go on without religion. And some people have neither, and yet are still religious, or not...

- IF there is a superior/ perfect being - why would it have to generate/ create anything in the first place?
Who says creation is not superior?

IF the higher being is to be considered perfect, then is there need for reflection in the first place?
What is perfectionism, anyway?

Why would it demand "worship" and "obedience"?
I cannot possibly consider a perfect being doing this, I'm afraid. As for superior, well, clearly it has self esteem issues...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)

Written by: FireTom
More questions:


- Is it necessary to believe in a higher force in order to survive/ get/ be happy?
I believe in no conscious force greater than myself with the possible exception of OWD. Regardless I am perfectly happy. Happier, I would say, than many of my thiestic collegues.



Ah, but did he specify concious? no? so...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Written by: jo_rhymes

Written by: jeff(fake)

People can and do lose at life.


What is "success"? What is "failure"? If a relationship fails is it because you split up with a person, or because you did not learn from it?
What I'm saying is that you cannot fail.



Depends entirely on your definition of sucess and failure. Your definitions will make you happiest, but they arn't everyone's. And some people have such a narrow definition of sucess and to truly make themselves miserable....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Now I'll try and summarize where I am at the moment for a brief overview. Maybe you check if you want and add what you think is missing/ correct what you think doesn't apply...

- OK - so far I understand that "good and bad" IS a valid concept. It greatly depends on the level of perception and the time.

As it's "bad" to hit my toe and break it, but it's been pretty damn "good" that it happened to me, as I therefore missed my train, got to work 1,5 hours late and find the entire building has been destroyed by a 747 crashing into it, but it didn't get me...

"Good and bad" is a momentary perception of events happening. Put into different contexts, viewed from another than the personal present angle, it might turn into something other. It's momentary.

- Also it's necessary to experience the "downs" in life in order to appreciate the "ups" even more. Some of us are generating the "downs" much by themselves. We're learning how to handle life as the perception of "the big picture" grows further.

- It's not necessary to believe in a higher source of consciousness/ something "godlike"/ some "masterplan" or similar in order to get/ be happy and sometimes it can even be in the way as much as it can help.

It's a personal preference - therefore I plea to give every human being the opportunity to render for himself what "god" means to her/ himself - freedom of religion as a birthright against state, society and parents.

- Different cultures have a different perception of "good and evil" as much as they have a different perception of "god" and even the elements. For instance: if the sun is nurturing and bringing life (to a colder climate) - it gender would more likely be female, if the sun is piercing and even destructive (to a hotter climate) it more likely will be perceived male. Same as in religion: if the environment is hostile and the people have to engage/ fight for survival (due to (social) environment) the perception will more likely be one of a angry and moody "god"...

- "God" may/ have change/d... one position is that anything is perfect anyways and therefore there is no need for change, the other concept is that things may change and still be perfect... evolution means that something perfect transforms into something as perfect on a different stage/ level. It might be "more perfect" or perfect in a different sense.

- There might be an underlying, governing force in the universe. What it looks like or means is due to definition. Everyone has a slightly different conception of it, as everyone is looking at the same thing from a different angle. To fuzz about it is as helpful "as chewing bubble gum in order to solve an algebra equasion" (which might actually work...)

To me it's just very interesting what different people feel and think about different (elementary) subjects...

Written by: FireTom
Is it the desire of men, to create something that prevails? Or the desire of women to lean on something?



How could one choose a methaphore and NOT being called a sexist? I am riding stereotypes here, yes, but maybe the dear reader at least tries to get beyond the obvious... Of course desires are not perfectly bound to gender and hormones...

The idea was whether the attributes of god, proclaimed from temples and churches might be very well chosen in order to give people a canvas they can project upon. Like smart advertising...

- "Worship" and "obedience" (to me) is a concept of control. It's basically demanded so the subject recognises that there is something superior, something higher than her/ himself - so in this way necessary to be reminded to stay humble. Also it's very helpful to those "linking" between "the higher" and "the ordinary" - the clerics to get their share.

IMU there is no need for a temple (hence certain ambience is helpful to get calm) as there's no need for a community (but it's nurishing to have people around who are in a similar mood).


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


i8beefy2
i8beefy2

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Posted:Eh hem... He is the Alpha and the Omega (beginning / end). Now I take that to mean he encompasses all dualities, so it's pointless to say anything on the subject if that's true... Definition requires saying what something is and is not. How do you do that when this thing is and is not everything. Simply put, it is beyond definition. You can't even say it exists because it doesn't exist either.

So until we work out some new way of perceiving the world, we're a bit up shite creek... smile

The humbleness argument for the necessity of worship is compelling... but I don't buy it. To stake one's SALVATION on the NECESSITY of it oversteps the bounds of acceptable benevolent goverance. Of course you can side-step that by going Universalist... at which point practice of religion becomes completely optional and any real compelling reason to practice is negated and "religious" and "atheist" become practically interchangable in terms of ends. They just become different opinions with no real purported meaning. Yes, yes, maybe there is psychological advantage to one over the other, but nothing permanent hangs in the balance.



Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

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Posted:As He is omnipotent, and beyond our scope of understanding, it is only possible to say what He is not, as to say what He is, as He is statements would impose limits on a limitless being and therefore make G-d less Holy.

Or something.

Its what I was always taught anywho.


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)


i8beefy2
i8beefy2

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Posted:But "is not" statements automatically define something that he is. Ie he IS NOT BAD = HE IS GOOD.

This simple logic: P = ~~P. This is assuming that all knowledge falls into a dualistic forumla of course, but they are equivelant. Thus you ARE limiting him.

In plain english: God is not evil LIMITS him to being good, unless you say that he transcends all dualities, and thus is good AND evil, or Not Good AND Not Evil. But semantically, all language deals with "talking about things" as definitions saying what something is and/or is not. If what you are trying to talk about transcends this, then there is no way to possibly talk about it...

That doesn't mean it can't be experienced, just that we don't have the necessary explanatory methods due to the ways in which we define our world when talking about it. To quote Wittgenstein: "We must be silent about those things we can not speak". Or Tao Te Ching: "The Tao that can be named, is not the true Tao", or Zen Buddhist teachings.

This is specifically why a lot of religions take issue with "idolatry". Idolatry in essence is taking something as a symbol for something else that can not be symbolized or spoken of, etc. ie an infinite higher being (we can get into what a "true infinite" is and the consequences of it, ie all probability=1 in a true infinite situation, etc. thus the infinite is the source of all possibility, kinda a reverse cosmological argument). This is why we fall into discussing God, etc. as our experience of them... which is necessarily limiting. So while we can say nothing about God, we can say plenty of our experience of them. And then we can argue about the plausability and reliability of truthful experience, etc. etc.

Where people keep reading "Truth" into all that experience is beyond me... or maybe just predated analytical philosophy by too many centuries.



Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:bad != good
much as black != white

apologies for symbol mixing.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Personally I would agree, Beefy: by limiting an otherwise unlimited "being", it's us who put the duality on the said phenomenon - not the other way.

As to take this further: anything that one could call "god" would be neutral, neither good nor bad... it just is (as it is)... all valuation is sense- and useless, even in the way to fully understand the essence of "god". It would incorporate all aspects of existance - beyond human minds limitation. As "G-d" is in everything and everything is within...

Lou - does the prohibition to speak the name also include the therm "god", or are jews only prohibited to spell out the tetragrammaton "JHVH"? I understand it's due to respect.

When it comes to worship I would think that this also is a practice that has been put into a rite. It is meant as to keep the connection to the universal creation alive and to always remember that everything around us is (as) sacred (as we are).

Over time people have lost their understanding for rites and so they tend to become meaningless and hollow. Also rites have been changed by the priest cast until they got very complicated, so only priests can celebrate them. 500BC there was a grand uprising against the priest cast in India and later also in the Middle East I guess to end the priests influence.

In X-tianity the holy text has been only for the intellectuals until Luther translated the Bible into German... shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink


Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

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Location: Manchester
Member Since: 29th May 2005
Total posts: 131
Posted:The prohibition of writing/typing G-d is so that we don't throw away His name. Some people type, some people don't, some people believe it only counts in Hebrew. I however, like to play it safe.

YHVH is G-ds name. Well, its the the Tetragrammaton. G-ds name is YHVH with two vowels in the middle somewhere that I can't type. You don't say G-ds name. Ever. Unless your an Uber-Rabbi and creating a man from clay!


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)


jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Yahveh or Yahweh is thought to have been known originally as the god Yah, one of a panthion of gods known as the Elohim. Some time afterwards the ancient Hebrews or their ancestors abandoned their other gods in favour of a singular one.

However I had always thought that the tetragrammaton was meant to be the true name of god and the insertion of the vowels was artificial to make it look more pronoucable.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


Gremlin_Lou
Gremlin_Lou

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Location: Manchester
Member Since: 29th May 2005
Total posts: 131
Posted:Yeh, you don't type it either.

I guess we abandoned all other G-ds because they didn't rescue us from Eygpt and do loads of stuff for us. Some Jews do accept the possible existence of other G-ds. I do - I think theres far more out there than we know about, and the evidence for other G-ds is there...'I am a jealos G-d', 'Thou shalt not have any other G-ds but Me' and the incident of Pharohs magicians matching my G-d with magic from their own deities etc.


'If your deeds shouldn't be known, perhaps they shouldn't be done, if your words shouldn't be shared, perhaps they shouldn't be spoken. Act with attention, for all your acts have consequences" (Rabbi Judah HaNassi)


Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:The Hebrews (and other cultures) have indeed been called to abandon their pantheon of gods in order to worship the Creator. The Bible confirms that there are many other "gods"... spiritual beings that were created by God, then chose to rebel against Him. The most famous of these would be Satan. The Hebrews (and other cultures) have struggled with idolotry throughout history. God has called all of us to worship the Creator rather than creation, however.

Jeff(fake) is both correct and incorrect regarding the tetragrammaton. It is indeed meant to have no vowels, but this is because the Hebrew alphabet does not contain any vowels at all. None of their written words have vowels. The "vowel markings" that are inserted between the letters in modern Hebrew are a recent invention. Ancient Hebrew did not use such markings.



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