Forums > Social Chat > Blowing off steam <smokers rant>

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Str8Jakit
Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...
Member Since: 30th Dec 2005
Total posts: 135
Posted:Ok, let me start off by saying I understand smoking is bad for me. I get it! I also understand that there are alot of people out there, who don't want to be around it. No problem. I do everything i can to make sure my cig smoke does not affect others. I don't smoke around my daughter. I don't smoke in my car if there is a non-smoker with me. Hell I go as far as to not smoke in clubs/bars casue I know it's going to thick with smoke soon enough. But if one more censored comes up to me and tells me how bad it is, I'm going to scream!!

Let me explain: I was OUTSIDE of out local mall having a smoke. Now there are no "smoking areas" outside the mall. So I was standing by the ash tray, so as not to make a mess of the ground. This censored censored comes up to me from about 20 yards away, and asks me to put out my smoke casue it's "bothering him". Now normaly I would have, but he was 20 yards away, and stadning up wind from me!!! The smoke was not even traveling in his direction!
Now i wanted to tell him to censored off, but I refrained, and simply reminded him that while it may be "bothering him" it's killing me.

Sorry for all the censored remarks, but I had to vent about that. Smokers understand that cig's are not good for us. It's cramed down our throughts every day. If the 2nd hand smoke is indeed bothering you; i.e. it's hitting you in the face; then ok. Most respectful smokers will move to another location, or put it out. But if your x amount of yards away, and UP WIND from us, don't be "that gut" please......again sorry for the rant.


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Beth

I have a few questions for the smokers amoung us.

Firstly, being a non-smoker, i have never understood the attraction. Does it taste nice? Do smokers who have been smoking for years still like the taste? Did you get into it because of peer pressure or because you thought itd be yummy?

Lastly, and most importantly, do you want to quit?

There is a lot of help available nowadays for people who want to quit, so many patches, substitutes and support groups that 'lack of help' is no excuse for not quitting.

I'm not having a dig at smokers, this is a genuine question.



I've been a full-on long-term smoker and consider myself to have a good idea of the motivations for smoking.

Firstly, for intial attraction-

In the bad old days there was a lot of encouragement to smoke, films and other rmedia portrayed smoking as romantic, cool and dignifed. In films the heroes all smoked, and a cigarette would feature in most romantic scenes. Advertising cigarettes on T.V. was legal, and adverts common.

Thankfully, this kind of thing is now much diminished and legislated against.

Percieved coolness is still a factor, with, for example, smoking being associated with rebellion; if you want to get in with the 'bad kids', cigarettes will help.

Smoking myths may also be a factor- there is still a belief that smoking relaxes you, for example.

Inability to grasp the negatives of smoking invalidates much of what passes for anti-smoking education- for example, we're taught that nicotine is highly addictive, and, when I first dabbled with cigarettes, I knew that this was the case.

However, in retrospect, I didn't really know it- when, 15 years later, I was getting through 30-a-day, even though I hated the things, that's when I knew it smile

Of the millions of smoking addicts today who know they are addicted, I don't believe a single one of them, when experimenting with their first cigarette, had any notion that, by doing so, they would end up in the hopelessly addicted state that they did.

Lastly, of course, the young are the prime victims of smoking- their lack of life-experience, tendency to consider themselves immortal and the attraction of rebellion; all conspire to make them highly susceptible to experimenting with cigarettes.

Whilst not everyone who experiments with cigarettes will become addicted, many will- hence the millions of smoking addicts in the world today; all of whom started with 'just one' and an unrealistic appreciation of the consequences.

At this point i'll also mention one of Allen Carrs (author of the classic text on quitting smoking- 'The Easy Way to give up Smoking') theories on taste.

He believes that the foul taste of cigarettes is a factor in getting people addicted- while we are told that cigs are highly addictive, the fact that the first few taste so vile makes us believe that we could never get into the habit of smoking them.

If the first cigarette tasted nice, then, in conjunction with the addiction warning, alarm bells would start to ring, and we'd maybe put the thing out and steer clear in future.

As it is, we're more likely to think, 'That's distusting, no way am I ever going to get addicted to this smile'- we're lulled into a full sense of security.

(Incidently, Allen Carrs book is an excellent read for any non-smokers who wish to get an insight into the mentality of the addicted smoke).

=================================
=================================

So, that's some factors which account for the intitial attraction, but why do habitual smokers contiue to smoke?

I'm going to be blunt, and some here won't like it, but I've seen, read, heard, researched and experienced enough about smoking, to feel confident in saying-

it's addiction, pure and simple.

Any moderate/heavy regular smoker who claims they smoke because they like the taste, that it relaxes them or that it benefits them in any way whatsoever, is either lying, or, more likely, deluded.

There are no benefits to smoking whatsoever- long term heavy/moderate users smoke because they are addicted to nicotine.

And that addiction is a serious one- I understand fully the pain of people who break down in sheer frustration when yet another sincere attempt to quit ends in failure; when they simply cannot understand why they feel so absolutely compelled to use a substance which they have come to hate and despise.

I understand it because I've been there- and it's an understanding that non-smokers cannot truly grasp, and it's an understanding that a kid trying to look cool as he/she takes their first drag cannot in any way appreciate (maybe in twenty years time they'll get it, at which point it's too late).

Smoking is the most perfect of traps- Allen Carr compares it to an insect eating plant.

Initially the fly is tempted to the colourful plant, it stays there because of the sweet substance the plant exudes; at a certain point, the fly does not leave because it can't, it's legs are trapped by the sticky nectar.

So, it continues to eat, and the 'fly eating the plant' blurs imperceptibly into 'the plant eating the fly'.

Written by: Beth

There is a lot of help available nowadays for people who want to quit, so many patches, substitutes and support groups that 'lack of help' is no excuse for not quitting.




It's a serious addiction, and, while some will be fortunate to find a method that works, many won't.

It's far from straightforward- as you can probably tell, I have a lot of respect for Allen Carrs writings on quitting, and one of the things he addresses is the fact that, in his experience (of personally helping thousands of smokers to successfully quit), many of the conventional approaches are innefective.

For example, the common 'cutting-down' approach, which he believes actively hinders quitting; similarly with patches, gum and any form of cigarette 'substitution'.

I'm not going to condemn these methods, though I acknowledge that Carrs arguments against them are very well considered (and, to me, convincing).

The thing is, quitting is very hard, unless you're fortunate to understand fully how smoking works (in which case quitting becomes easy); and the fact is, that once someone is addicted, there is a good chance that all the patches, willpower and help in the world, will not help them escape.

Sadly, of the millions of smoking addicts who wish to quit, alive in the world today, a good proportion (probably the majority) will smoke to the day they die.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Dave, how often do you need to replace your keyboard?
wink


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:and where are all the replies...?

Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:First off. Whoa. i never thought I'd see a post quite as impressive as Dave's in Social Chat.

Secondly, I'm a light smoker, and I'm addicted to about 4 a day currently. A majority of my friends from the age of 15 to where I am now, at 21, in many different social groups, have been smokers. I started smoking through spliffs (Damn you Husky), and have been smoking for 4 years.

My boyfriend is a fairly heavy smoker, smoking upto 20 a day. I asked him to at least cut down over the weekend, and he said he would but that his appetite goes up when he does. Heyahoney said the same thing a few posts up this page.

So here's my question: Does nicotine, or maybe another chemical in tobacco, act as an appetite supressant?


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:Yes.
Without a shadow of a doubt.

As Troy McLure said:
You might rember me from such self help videos as: "Get confidence, stupid!" and "Smoke yourself thin"

smile


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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:So if smoking leads to a decrease in appetite, when you stop, does your appetite then go back up?

If you're someone who has issues with their weight, and even though you do lots of exercise and eat healthily as a vegetarian you still put on weight easily, having your appetite go up makes you eat more (obviously) and you get depressed... cutting down on smoking is gonna be even harder. Can anyone give advice?

sorry its late and I can't think. Nini!


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:The weight gain issue is perhaps one of the most difficult to give advice on.

Firstly, many people do not gain weight when they quit smoking.

Others however, do.

The reason it's difficult to advise is because, as you've just pointed out, weight issues are linked to depression (and poor self-image etc).

To me, there is also a connection between smoking and depression- certainly in my case there was; and, gven that nicotine is a drug, and known as a highly toxic substance by those who use it, I feel that in many cases smoking is akin, in some ways, to self-harming, and, in others, is an attempt to manage an underlying depression.

However, the good news is that, using the Carr method at least, weight gain not a problem, as

1. part of the method is to understand that your own habitual patterns of thought are the prime factor in keeping you addicted to nicotine. It's a fact that, when you quit, you must be very much on guard about attempts, by that part of your mind that wants you to stay hooked, to delude into lighting up again.

So, the most effective way to deal with the weight-gain issue is to view it as one such attempt- and the best way to deal with any of these attempts, is to simply not engage with them- i.e. don't worry about it.

Easier said than done you may think; nevertheless, it does work, and, for the majority of quitters, there will be persistent and niggling thoughts that are urging them to light up again- for some it is the niggling doubt that they will fail to quit in the future (so they may as well light up now); for others it's the fear that they won't be able to handle social situations without a cigarette.

For you, it is weight gain- that's no harder, or easier, than any of the others.

2. Weight gain, if it occurs, will almost certainly be temporary- eating more will be an attempt to fill the 'void' of not smoking. The truth of successful quitting however, is that there never was a void to fill- once you're successfully free of the addiction and negative thought patterns that sustained it, the compensation eating should cease and weight loss occur.

3. Even in the unlikely event that you end up a few pounds heavier, this is far preferable to an addiction to a drug which makes you less fit, less healthy, saps your confidence and ultimately, may lead to a horrible death from cancer.

4. As I mentioned earlier, depression and smoking addiction (or any addiction) are good bed-fellows- if you diminish one, it tends to diminish the other. Freeing yourself from smoking makes you feel better- you can be proud of yourself for overcoming something which most fail to overcome, you will be less depressed and more confident.

Where weight is concerned, there are two possibilites-

a. you're not overweight, and it's actually poor self-image that's to blame- in which case, quitting smoking will help as it tackles the negativity/depression that underlies poor self-image

or-

b. you are somewhat overweight- in which case quitting smoking will help as it leaves you fitter, healthier and more confident, all of which will increase the effectiveness of any weight-management strategies (eg exercise) you decide to adopt.

If you're serious about quitting, do get a copy of Allen Carrs book- he explains it all much better than me, and getting the book really will increase your chances of success.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Mr Majestik
Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear
Member Since: 9th Mar 2004
Total posts: 4693
Posted:personally i'd choose a few extra kilos over the negative health effects and copious amounts of money smoking can steal from you. i must say though that controlling eating can be as hard for some people as quitting smoking.

honestly drudwyn, i think (and i'm not fully aware of your particular circumstances) that at the moment you are dealing with one problem by diverting your worries to another. smoking may help you control your apetite, but the negitive effects of smoking could end up having you sick in hospital getting no exercise and putting on weight anyway. As OWD and i have previously mentioned smokers, when addicted, will generally use whatever illogical reasoning possible to continue their addiction. now i'm not meaning to sound rude, but to me that seems to be exactly what you are doing. Saying 'smoking is good because it controls my apetite' seems to be an excuse to keep smoking, when in reality you would probably be much much better off not smoking and talking to healthcare professionals about any worries you may have in relation to your diet.

sorry if this sounds a little harsh, but it seems right to me.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Written by: ICoN

One thing I dislike are the people who say "Could you put out that cigarette? Im allergic"

Give me a break. Youre no more allergic to it than I am. Im sure the smoke irritates you but you arent gonna break out in hives or have your throat close up on you from it. How about you grow some balls and not give excuses as to why you want my cig out.



Perhaps senstitive might be a better word. When it brings on asthma attacks, runny eyes and noses that counts as an allergy problem.

If someone reacted to touching a plant like that it would be counted an allergy. I count an allergy as below

An allergy is an abnormal reaction or increased sensitivity to certain substances or "allergens." The allergic individual produces symptoms when exposed to these substances which are harmless to non-allergic people


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:I am smoking as I consider it to be one of the least social damaging habits/ addictions one can have wink

No seriously - I might be smoking 1-3 cigarettes/day +/- occasions like parties, raves, social dinner...

Personally I dislike

a) smokers throwing their plastic filters all over nature and
b) those who don't bother even asking whether I might feel disturbed by them smoking in a confined space/ at a meal

c) non-smokers who try to dominate me, as they are "more clean" and cram their attitude up my backside and
d) try to missionise me, even though I am not pregnant rolleyes have children on my backseat, and/ or covered by their health plan...

As long as nicotin ab/use is not considered suicide by definitions of law, everyone should be able to do as s/he pleases... and I would always use spearmint chewing gums before kissing my non-smoking lover... hug which I appreciate vice versa after she was drinking her coffee wink (I don't like the smell of coffee - sometimes it even makes me feel like puking)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Dunc
Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands
Member Since: 19th Aug 2003
Total posts: 7263
Posted:coffeeeee.....eeeeugh!!!! The most repugnant substance on the planet, closely followed my marmite. It makes me want to puke too, once our receptionist brought in a coffee perculator thingie in from home so she could have fresh, I very almost barfed when I walked into reception, not expecting it I think I subconciously drew a deeper breath to detect this unfamiliar aroma, then left quickly to regain my normal non-nausious state of well being.

but anyway, back on topic......


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Str8Jakit
Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...
Member Since: 30th Dec 2005
Total posts: 135
Posted:ubblol i love seeing little rants turn into big discussions.....if i would have known it was going to go this far, i would have put it discussions ubblol


Beth: some have taste. from time to time i get cherry falvored ones, or vanilla. but for the most part they taste like crap. why did i start? damn good question, i often ask myself the same thing ubblol seriously, everyone in my family smoked. so it just seemed like a natural choice for me. now do i want to quit........yes. but i have to be on xanax for the anxiety. the patch leaves a nasty red mark on my arm. itches like hell too. the gum tastes worse than the cig.....even the orange ones. so at this point whil i am ready to stop. i'm not ready to trade up for another addiction.


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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effex
effex

member

Member Since: 30th Jan 2006
Total posts: 32
Posted:I trying to quit smoking, again heh heh. SO far I managing to only smoke in evenings and weekends. Small steps, soon i take the plunge. The enjoyment of smoking is so losing appeal to the lack of breath in the mornings.
Problem is that in tribal days smoking was an occasion, a moment of spirituality. With the advance of western culture natuarally everything from our past was forgotten or lost its true meaning. Tobacco replaced traditional herb-mixes and became a cheap and casual affair. big chief says 'bring back the peace pipe'


smile and people will wonder what yr up to.

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Without wanting to throw a spanner in the works, i've noticed a few mentions of 'cutting down'.

There are serious issues with cutting down as an aid to quitting; the main one being that it usually doesn't work smile

The best arguments I've seen against cutting down are in Carrs book, and they're very convincing.

However, they're not the only basis for my distrust of the method- I attempted many variations of it personally and, more important, I've seen many of my friends use it and fail- looking back, it's more usually a sub-conscious attempt to keep smoking whilst simultaneously giving the impression that one is addressing the addiction smile

Of course, some do succeed in quitting using this method (though I can honestly say that I've never personally witnessed it), but, as Carr puts it, it's in spite of cutting down, not because of it.

I won't here go into more details of why cutting down is not a good way of quitting, but, if requested, can do so.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Str8Jakit
Str8Jakit

Dealing in Perception & Probability
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sun...
Member Since: 30th Dec 2005
Total posts: 135
Posted:I think it was Mark Twain who said it best:

"To stop smoking is the easiest thing is the world to do. I know becasue I have done it over 1,000 times."


Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.

If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:Thanks for the advice Dave, Mr. Majestic, but I'm perfectly fine with my body image. I asked the question in relation to my boyfriend's response when I asked him to cut down or quit.



Like I said, I've been on max of 4 a day for the last 4 years, and I already eat 4 meals a day, so I don't think it's gonna be a problem for me having my appetite increase!



Although, I can see your point about linking worries together.



Now all I have to do is try and persuade Nick to do the same, and quit with me.



Oh, and pure weed spliffs are so very much better.


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:"cutting down" is NOT "quitting"... to me: why quitting in the first place?

Health hazards? then I should quit motorbike and sugars (also in the form of alcohol) too.
Ugly smell? Sometimes I really do enjoy it. When I don't then I put it out.

Is there anything to prove for anyone? umm

If you feel uncomfortable with smoking then stop! STOP NOW AND NOT THEN! All this "then" is just a lie! When you're finished you're finished, not before... but after.... wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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