Forums > Social Chat > Blowing off steam <smokers rant>
Login/Join to ParticipateDealing in Perception & Probability
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
Posted:
Ok, let me start off by saying I understand smoking is bad for me. I get it! I also understand that there are alot of people out there, who don't want to be around it. No problem. I do everything i can to make sure my cig smoke does not affect others. I don't smoke around my daughter. I don't smoke in my car if there is a non-smoker with me. Hell I go as far as to not smoke in clubs/bars casue I know it's going to thick with smoke soon enough. But if one more
comes up to me and tells me how bad it is, I'm going to scream!!
Let me explain: I was OUTSIDE of out local mall having a smoke. Now there are no "smoking areas" outside the mall. So I was standing by the ash tray, so as not to make a mess of the ground. This comes up to me from about 20 yards away, and asks me to put out my smoke casue it's "bothering him". Now normaly I would have, but he was 20 yards away, and stadning up wind from me!!! The smoke was not even traveling in his direction!
Now i wanted to tell him to off, but I refrained, and simply reminded him that while it may be "bothering him" it's killing me.
Sorry for all the remarks, but I had to vent about that. Smokers understand that cig's are not good for us. It's cramed down our throughts every day. If the 2nd hand smoke is indeed bothering you; i.e. it's hitting you in the face; then ok. Most respectful smokers will move to another location, or put it out. But if your x amount of yards away, and UP WIND from us, don't be "that gut" please......again sorry for the rant.
Ok, let me start off by saying I understand smoking is bad for me. I get it! I also understand that there are alot of people out there, who don't want to be around it. No problem. I do everything i can to make sure my cig smoke does not affect others. I don't smoke around my daughter. I don't smoke in my car if there is a non-smoker with me. Hell I go as far as to not smoke in clubs/bars casue I know it's going to thick with smoke soon enough. But if one more
comes up to me and tells me how bad it is, I'm going to scream!! Let me explain: I was OUTSIDE of out local mall having a smoke. Now there are no "smoking areas" outside the mall. So I was standing by the ash tray, so as not to make a mess of the ground. This
comes up to me from about 20 yards away, and asks me to put out my smoke casue it's "bothering him". Now normaly I would have, but he was 20 yards away, and stadning up wind from me!!! The smoke was not even traveling in his direction! Now i wanted to tell him to
off, but I refrained, and simply reminded him that while it may be "bothering him" it's killing me. Sorry for all the
remarks, but I had to vent about that. Smokers understand that cig's are not good for us. It's cramed down our throughts every day. If the 2nd hand smoke is indeed bothering you; i.e. it's hitting you in the face; then ok. Most respectful smokers will move to another location, or put it out. But if your x amount of yards away, and UP WIND from us, don't be "that gut" please......again sorry for the rant.Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.
If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
you did well there, i would of been less refrained
you did well there, i would of been less refrained BRONZE Member
Look I've changed my title!
209 posts
Location: England
Look I've changed my title!
209 posts
Location: England
Posted:
lol i don't smoke, but i would probably have gone crazy if that guy acted like that towards me
I admire you for respecting the non-smokers though, the majority of my friends that smoke just blow it in my face absentmindedly.... nevermind eh.
lol i don't smoke, but i would probably have gone crazy if that guy acted like that towards me
I admire you for respecting the non-smokers though, the majority of my friends that smoke just blow it in my face absentmindedly.... nevermind eh.
anthrax.... it infects, then spreads..... fast
Dealing in Perception & Probability
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
Posted:
rave: i wanted to be less refrained, but what would that have solved? other than getting my blood presure up
anthrax: i'd spill a drink in their lap the next time they did that.....absentmindedly of course
rave: i wanted to be less refrained, but what would that have solved? other than getting my blood presure up
anthrax: i'd spill a drink in their lap the next time they did that.....absentmindedly of course
Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.
If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
i'm not saying i would beat them round the head with the nearest heavy object i would just kindly point out that they should *@&K OFF
i'm not saying i would beat them round the head with the nearest heavy object i would just kindly point out that they should *@&K OFF
Dealing in Perception & Probability
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
Posted:
i did, in a pollite way. trust me the look on this guys face when i reminded him of the obvious, was worth staying calm. it turns out when you point out facts to dumb people, they don't what to do
i did, in a pollite way.
trust me the look on this guys face when i reminded him of the obvious, was worth staying calm. it turns out when you point out facts to dumb people, they don't what to do Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.
If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.
SILVER Member
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
enthusiast
360 posts
Location: Oxford, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm also generally a considerate smoker - not blowin it nr people, around kids etc etc, and I'd have got [censored] narked if someone had a go when I was goin out of my way to be considerate.
I'm also generally a considerate smoker - not blowin it nr people, around kids etc etc, and I'd have got [censored] narked if someone had a go when I was goin out of my way to be considerate.
SILVER Member
Watching the Sky
453 posts
Location: Cambridge(ish)/Bath Spa Uni, United Kingdom
Watching the Sky
453 posts
Location: Cambridge(ish)/Bath Spa Uni, United Kingdom
Posted:
That kind of attitude really bothers me with other people. Now I personally dont smoke, never touched one, but I really dont mind it. There was no good reason for it to bother him, idiot! And you were cleary respectng the people around you.
Its the press that have made it bad, people will belive anything these days. Smoking doesnt purely cause anything, especially passive smoking. So many articals say that passive smoking will cause more of this and that, but its all al load of none of its true!
The way it makes people treat someone so differently in a negative way really depresses me. Damned general public! Remember the 90's? I miss it so much!
Ok rant over!
That kind of attitude really bothers me with other people. Now I personally dont smoke, never touched one, but I really dont mind it. There was no good reason for it to bother him, idiot! And you were cleary respectng the people around you.
Its the press that have made it bad, people will belive anything these days. Smoking doesnt purely cause anything, especially passive smoking. So many articals say that passive smoking will cause more of this and that, but its all al load of
none of its true!The way it makes people treat someone so differently in a negative way really depresses me. Damned general public! Remember the 90's? I miss it so much!
Ok rant over!
I jumped into the river, what did i see?
Black-eyed angels swam with me.
BRONZE Member
Redneck Woman
566 posts
Location: Texas, Yeeeeehaaaaaw, USA
Redneck Woman
566 posts
Location: Texas, Yeeeeehaaaaaw, USA
Posted:
Man, I totally agree! I get so mad when people are griping at me about smoking! Its my choice to kill myself, so leave me alone about it. I dont smoke around my daughter and people who don't smoke, but gawd! I get preached at everyday about by my mom's boyfriend, so I dont need other people doing it too.
Man, I totally agree! I get so mad when people are griping at me about smoking! Its my choice to kill myself, so leave me alone about it. I dont smoke around my daughter and people who don't smoke, but gawd! I get preached at everyday about by my mom's boyfriend, so I dont need other people doing it too.
Top Three Things I've Learn While Being A Mom
1. Baby poop comes in many colors.
2. Makes sure all dirty diapers are not accessable to my dog.
3. Burp rags are not big enough.
Dealing in Perception & Probability
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
135 posts
Location: On the edge of sunrise and sunset
Posted:
glad to see that i'm not alone in thinking people like this guy are total's.
and kim, you shouldn't smoke you're to young
glad to see that i'm not alone in thinking people like this guy are total
's.and kim, you shouldn't smoke
you're to young Legal and illegal are a point of view. All that matters is morality.
If there's a shadow in your life, then there is also sunshine. Perception is everything.
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
"the majority of my friends that smoke just blow it in my face absentmindedly"
Get a majority of new friends
"the majority of my friends that smoke just blow it in my face absentmindedly"
Get a majority of new friends
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
I've never been a cigarette smoker and I can't understand these people who feel the need to rant at smokers. Everyone is informed these days, those who smoke whether they like it or want to quit knows what they're doing and should be left to it when they're considerate smokers.
And don't get me started on pubs and no smoking in public laws, oh well too late I've started now. If you want a job working somewhere that does involve smoke go work in a nice electronics factory or outside or with children or something. Don't get a job where people go to smoke and dont try to change the law cuz a few loud voices think it's their way or no way, which in this case is the same way. I mean if I hated working somewhere cuz I thought it might be detrimental to my health I'd go work somewhere else!
Folks have been smoking in public/bars since almost time irrelevant. I see no harm in having no smoking pubs as well as smoking pubs then everyone is happy but oh no, we'll change the law so only some people are happy when they're trying to wind down in the only fasion some of them know how.
[/rant] I'm with ya str8jakit
I've never been a cigarette smoker and I can't understand these people who feel the need to rant at smokers. Everyone is informed these days, those who smoke whether they like it or want to quit knows what they're doing and should be left to it when they're considerate smokers.
And don't get me started on pubs and no smoking in public laws, oh well too late I've started now. If you want a job working somewhere that does involve smoke go work in a nice electronics factory or outside or with children or something. Don't get a job where people go to smoke and dont try to change the law cuz a few loud voices think it's their way or no way, which in this case is the same way. I mean if I hated working somewhere cuz I thought it might be detrimental to my health I'd go work somewhere else!
Folks have been smoking in public/bars since almost time irrelevant. I see no harm in having no smoking pubs as well as smoking pubs then everyone is happy but oh no, we'll change the law so only some people are happy when they're trying to wind down in the only fasion some of them know how.
[/rant] I'm with ya str8jakit
Let's relight this forum 
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
The initial rant seems justified- sounds like the guy was out-of-order.
One look at the post though, and I got the feeling that the thread was going to slip inextricably into less-justified compliants
(enter Dunc )
You say if people don't want to inhale smoke, they should not get jobs in pubs.
Problems with that-
1. jobs are scarce- people on benefit may be compelled to work in a pub (or get no benefits)
2. by your own logic (that those who don't like smoke should find a job where there is no smoke) could it not be argued that simialrly, those who object to a culture in which smoking is not acceptable in pubs, instead of making a fuss, should go and live in one of the many cultures where smoking in pubs is still acceptable
The initial rant seems justified- sounds like the guy was out-of-order.
One look at the post though, and I got the feeling that the thread was going to slip inextricably into less-justified compliants
(enter Dunc
)You say if people don't want to inhale smoke, they should not get jobs in pubs.
Problems with that-
1. jobs are scarce- people on benefit may be compelled to work in a pub (or get no benefits)
2. by your own logic (that those who don't like smoke should find a job where there is no smoke) could it not be argued that simialrly, those who object to a culture in which smoking is not acceptable in pubs, instead of making a fuss, should go and live in one of the many cultures where smoking in pubs is still acceptable
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
Hello Dave Sorry I thought I was in chat where I could rant a little, not discussion where it was open debate But anyway....
1) I find it hard to beleive that in this country there are a sufficient quantity of locations where the only jobs available for entire communities must invovle pubwork/similar environments that are subject to passive cigarrette smoking to justify nationwide cultural change.
Certainly not since the end of the coal era.
2) No, I don't think it could be argued such with my logic. Why should those who engage in current acitivities such as smoking be forced by law to change their lifestyle to appease an new minority?
My opinion is that it is a personal choice and the change of current trends shouldn't force current inhabitants to leave for other shores should a loud minority voice their opinions and I stongly beleive that CHOICE should be available, ie the equal promotion of smoking and non smoking pubs. If it truly was the majority who championed non smoking pubs as a cultural preference then it would settle itself as an issue, if the majority (as I personally suspect don't really mind smoking in public areas such as pubs and some eateries, while being fully aware of the consequences be they proven direct smoking or highly debated passive smoking consequences) chose smoking or both then we would live in a much happier society.
Hello Dave
Sorry I thought I was in chat where I could rant a little, not discussion where it was open debate But anyway....1) I find it hard to beleive that in this country there are a sufficient quantity of locations where the only jobs available for entire communities must invovle pubwork/similar environments that are subject to passive cigarrette smoking to justify nationwide cultural change.
Certainly not since the end of the coal era.
2) No, I don't think it could be argued such with my logic. Why should those who engage in current acitivities such as smoking be forced by law to change their lifestyle to appease an new minority?
My opinion is that it is a personal choice and the change of current trends shouldn't force current inhabitants to leave for other shores should a loud minority voice their opinions and I stongly beleive that CHOICE should be available, ie the equal promotion of smoking and non smoking pubs. If it truly was the majority who championed non smoking pubs as a cultural preference then it would settle itself as an issue, if the majority (as I personally suspect don't really mind smoking in public areas such as pubs and some eateries, while being fully aware of the consequences be they proven direct smoking or highly debated passive smoking consequences) chose smoking or both then we would live in a much happier society.
Let's relight this forum
SILVER Member
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
Posted:
I don't have a problem with smokers, as I'm a smoker myself. I've never had an experience like yours Str8Jakit. I don't often get lectures from friends because most of my friends are smokers too.
I do have the odd 'Don't you know smoking kills?' which gets annoying. I've also had mates come up and ask for a draw and when I give it to them they've put it out.
I'm always careful who I smoke in front of, like I don't smoke in front of anyone who I know will be offended etc.
As of March this year, smoking is going to be banned in all public places here. Which is going to make smoking a lot harder. I know a lot of social smokers, so they will most likely quit. People will start voicing their opinion on it more once they see smokers in public, prices of cigarettes will probably go up too.
They can't make it illegal, but they can make it bloody hard to be a smoker!
I don't have a problem with smokers, as I'm a smoker myself. I've never had an experience like yours Str8Jakit. I don't often get lectures from friends because most of my friends are smokers too.
I do have the odd 'Don't you know smoking kills?' which gets annoying. I've also had mates come up and ask for a draw and when I give it to them they've put it out.
I'm always careful who I smoke in front of, like I don't smoke in front of anyone who I know will be offended etc.
As of March this year, smoking is going to be banned in all public places here. Which is going to make smoking a lot harder. I know a lot of social smokers, so they will most likely quit. People will start voicing their opinion on it more once they see smokers in public, prices of cigarettes will probably go up too.
They can't make it illegal, but they can make it bloody hard to be a smoker!
.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.
Internet Hate Machine
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
10,530 posts
Location: They seek him here, they seek him there...
Posted:
Gah!
Long, well thought out posts in a chat thread!
S'all backwards!
I can't deal with this!
Str8Jakit: Good on yer for not spazzing out... You came away the better person (despite the fact you were filling your lungs with vile black gunk 
)
EDITED_BY: Fine_Rabid_Dog (1138409380)
Gah!
Long, well thought out posts in a chat thread!
S'all backwards!
I can't deal with this!
Str8Jakit: Good on yer for not spazzing out... You came away the better person (despite the fact you were filling your lungs with vile black gunk
)EDITED_BY: Fine_Rabid_Dog (1138409380)
The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
I get that feeling whenever I click on "community"
Written by: One Wheel Dave
I got the feeling that the thread was going to slip inextricably into less-justified compliants
I get that feeling whenever I click on "community"
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
I'm sure you do- that fact though does not prevent it being the case for many people
I know you're a big fan of choice, which is why I'm asking you why you think there's a problem with a good portion of our culture deciding that it dislikes smoking so much, that it's going to legislate against it, in the hope that it can maybe help prevent future generations of nicotine addicts.
I'd also point out to choice lovers, that cigarette addiction is the very anti-thesis of choice
I love choice too Dunc; IMO, at least as much as you do- I love it so much, and feel so strongly that future generations have more of it, that I'm quite happy to have legislation put in place to eradicte/minimise things like nicotine addiction.
That's my choice, am I not entitled to it?
Written by: Dunc
Hello Dave
1) I find it hard to beleive that in this country there are a sufficient quantity of locations where the only jobs available for entire communities must invovle pubwork/similar environments that are subject to passive cigarrette smoking to justify nationwide cultural change.
I'm sure you do- that fact though does not prevent it being the case for many people
Written by: Dunc
2) No, I don't think it could be argued such with my logic. Why should those who engage in current acitivities such as smoking be forced by law to change their lifestyle to appease an new minority?
My opinion is that it is a personal choice and the change of current trends shouldn't force current inhabitants to leave for other shores should a loud minority voice their opinions and I stongly beleive that CHOICE should be available, ie the equal promotion of smoking and non smoking pubs. If it truly was the majority who championed non smoking pubs as a cultural preference then it would settle itself as an issue, if the majority (as I personally suspect don't really mind smoking in public areas such as pubs and some eateries, while being fully aware of the consequences be they proven direct smoking or highly debated passive smoking consequences) chose smoking or both then we would live in a much happier society.
I know you're a big fan of choice, which is why I'm asking you why you think there's a problem with a good portion of our culture deciding that it dislikes smoking so much, that it's going to legislate against it, in the hope that it can maybe help prevent future generations of nicotine addicts.
I'd also point out to choice lovers, that cigarette addiction is the very anti-thesis of choice
I love choice too Dunc; IMO, at least as much as you do- I love it so much, and feel so strongly that future generations have more of it, that I'm quite happy to have legislation put in place to eradicte/minimise things like nicotine addiction.
That's my choice, am I not entitled to it?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
props to OWD, a year or two ago i read a number of posts by you about smoking and although i've never smoked your posts made me feel sorry for people who try to defend their addiction. after all, it is the nature of addiction to deny, shrug off, laugh, and basically do all that is illogical to convince themselves that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
i dont tell people 'smoking is bad' anymore, i just feel inexplicitably sad for them
props to OWD, a year or two ago i read a number of posts by you about smoking and although i've never smoked your posts made me feel sorry for people who try to defend their addiction. after all, it is the nature of addiction to deny, shrug off, laugh, and basically do all that is illogical to convince themselves that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
i dont tell people 'smoking is bad' anymore, i just feel inexplicitably sad for them
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
[Old link]
[Old link]
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
ah, thanks UCOF, i had a little search but couldn't remember the thread title or when the date was. could you possibly pm me on how you found it? (i think i need to imporve my search skillz)
ah, thanks UCOF, i had a little search but couldn't remember the thread title or when the date was. could you possibly pm me on how you found it? (i think i need to imporve my search skillz)
Written by: OWD
I think now that things have got to the point where, in general, most people realise the truth about smoking- that it's an addiction with no positive aspects whatsoever, that smokers are victims of that addiction, and that any arguments they use to promote smoking, or to justify inflicting smoke on non-smokers, are just plain wrong, and the result of the self-delusion that invariably accompanies addiction of any kind
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
If you are out side of a mall its probably near where people walk through as thetas where the trays usually are, here anyway. So we have to walk through smokers to get to the shops. So your smoke will be affecting others. I can smell a fag from 20 yards.
If that guy is like me and any whiff of cigarette makes his eyes and nose run he probably gets cranky at the first whiff of smoke. He may even get asthma triggered by smoking.
I am passionate about people smoking around my kids. I dot have a problem about the habits effects on the smoker themselves but I have huge problems with the butts on the street and the smoke in my air.
I'm sure if people around you had a habit that affected your health directly you would want to do something about it and this guy is.
You are cranky because someone is upset that you are polluting the air they are breathing. You are upset because someone cares enough to say something. You are the one polluting his environment. Deal with it. Smoke where it doesn't affect people who care.
If you are out side of a mall its probably near where people walk through as thetas where the trays usually are, here anyway. So we have to walk through smokers to get to the shops. So your smoke will be affecting others. I can smell a fag from 20 yards.
If that guy is like me and any whiff of cigarette makes his eyes and nose run he probably gets cranky at the first whiff of smoke. He may even get asthma triggered by smoking.
I am passionate about people smoking around my kids. I dot have a problem about the habits effects on the smoker themselves but I have huge problems with the butts on the street and the smoke in my air.
I'm sure if people around you had a habit that affected your health directly you would want to do something about it and this guy is.
You are cranky because someone is upset that you are polluting the air they are breathing. You are upset because someone cares enough to say something. You are the one polluting his environment. Deal with it. Smoke where it doesn't affect people who care.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
SILVER Member
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
15,417 posts
Location: South Wales
Posted:
Suprisingly...
I searched for "smoking" and in the discussion forum where OWD used to live
Then I followed up by DURBSING for "addiction".... just to check I had the correct one.
Suprisingly...
I searched for "smoking" and in the discussion forum where OWD used to live
Then I followed up by DURBSING for "addiction".... just to check I had the correct one.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Thanks for the positive feedback, it's nice to know that there's some point to writing these posts
And cheers UCOF, for your search expertise
One thing to remember about smokers, is that a lot of those who defend the habit are young, and only been smoking for a few months, or a couple of years- the reality of smoking is simply not evident during this 'honeymoon' period.
This is where a lot of the misconceptions about choice come from, because it's very easy to smoke for, say, two years, and be under the impression that stopping is a straightforward matter (I speak from experience).
It's after smoking 20-30 cigs a day for 10+ years when the truth dawns- your attempts to stop always fail, you manage a few weeks/months, then invariably either something stressful happens, or you get a bit drunk and have 'just one' and then you're back to the habit.
This doesn't apply to everyone of course, but, whatever naive smokers say, the undeniable fact is that there are several million long-term smokers out there who want to quit, but are convinced they can't.
--------------
IMO, you're right- badgering/harrassing smokers is pointless.
Smokers are not bad- they're victims.
(though it's important not to confuse harrassment with standing up for your own rights when smokers are inflicting their habit on non-smokers, which is why i have no problems with legislating against smoking in public places).
IMO, the best things you can do for smokers is to use effective reason to dismantle any eroneous justifactions they may have for their smoking.
An example being the common smokers myth that smoking is an expression of choice.
Smokers will generally use that as a kind of slogan, they'll whip it out and present it as some kind of logical point, without actually wanting to get into what it actually means or examine in it is actually valid.
If you do analyse the 'smoking=choice' statement, it will fall apart.
How can- what is one of the most addictive substances known to man, and one which millions world wide on a daily basis, choose to cease using, yet invariably find themselves back on again days/weeks later- be associated with anything other than an absolute lack of choice?
Smoking is the enemy of choice; those misguided individuals who wish to promote smoking as an act of choice, are themselves enemies of choice (IMO).
--------------------------
Most important when entering into dialogue with smokers, is to stick to calm logic, and do not put them down.
Many smokers unconsciously steer these kind of conversations towards emotiveness and hostility, because then they can be confirmed in the comfortable belief that the world is against them, and that, in continuing their habit, they are in some way standing up for something.
This is a defence mechanism which protects them from the more unpleasant option of seeing that the argument being presented is actually right.
For your own peace of mind, it's also important to identifiy those smokers who, whilst giving the impression that they're open to reason and wishing to enter into dialogue, are actually doing so because they like a good argument- they're getting into it to boost their own egos.
Personally, the only time I get into discussions with smokers is when I believe they're open to reason- if it becomes apparent they're not, I make my excuses and leave.
IMO, if you're going to engage in meaningful dialogue with smokers with the aim of helping them shed their addiction, you really need to know what you're talking about, because otherwise,they're liable to just get even more ensconced in their views.
Lastly, as this has occured earlier in the thread, I'll address another smokers myth, that of the 'considerate smoker'.
They do exist...now..
Certainly though, 20 years ago, there was no real consideration.
My parents, like many others, smoked through pregnancy; and, after that, through every day of my formative/growing up years i was, like many others, exposed to high levels of cigarette smoke at home.
In those days it was legal to smoke on buses, and people did, a great deal- buses then where like pubs are now- deeply unpleasant.
IMO, consideration displayed by smokers these days, has come about mainly due to the changing social additudes towards smoking and the enforcement of legislation.
---------------
Smokers- I'm with you. Seriously, I used to smoke uncontrolably myself and I've been through every possible permutation of smoking (non-smoker, light smoker, deluded smoker, acceptance-of-addict-status smoker and, finally, the rare state of ex-smoker (for life)) and I understand smoking.
If you want to quit, and nothing else is working, and you're serious about it, then get in touch, I may be able to help.
Ideally, that would take place on a public thread, so lots of other people can benefit as well; but, if you feel more comfortable making initial appraoches via pm, then feel free to do so.
I appreciate that, from the perspective of some smokers, I may seem hostile to smokers, I can assure you I'm not, i'm simply telling it how I see it- in my eyes, smokers are victims, and I say that not to insult smokers, but because it is the truth, and, as such, recognising that is part of the way to escape the smoking trap.
=================
Without wishing to appear arrogant or presumptious, I think it's fair to say that I can now lay claim to the "most serious and well-argued post ever to appear in a 'Chat' thread" record- do I win a prize?
Written by: Mr Majestik
props to OWD, a year or two ago i read a number of posts by you about smoking and although i've never smoked your posts made me feel sorry for people who try to defend their addiction. after all, it is the nature of addiction to deny, shrug off, laugh, and basically do all that is illogical to convince themselves that there is nothing wrong with what they are doing.
i dont tell people 'smoking is bad' anymore, i just feel inexplicitably sad for them
Thanks for the positive feedback, it's nice to know that there's some point to writing these posts
And cheers UCOF, for your search expertise
One thing to remember about smokers, is that a lot of those who defend the habit are young, and only been smoking for a few months, or a couple of years- the reality of smoking is simply not evident during this 'honeymoon' period.
This is where a lot of the misconceptions about choice come from, because it's very easy to smoke for, say, two years, and be under the impression that stopping is a straightforward matter (I speak from experience).
It's after smoking 20-30 cigs a day for 10+ years when the truth dawns- your attempts to stop always fail, you manage a few weeks/months, then invariably either something stressful happens, or you get a bit drunk and have 'just one' and then you're back to the habit.
This doesn't apply to everyone of course, but, whatever naive smokers say, the undeniable fact is that there are several million long-term smokers out there who want to quit, but are convinced they can't.
--------------
IMO, you're right- badgering/harrassing smokers is pointless.
Smokers are not bad- they're victims.
(though it's important not to confuse harrassment with standing up for your own rights when smokers are inflicting their habit on non-smokers, which is why i have no problems with legislating against smoking in public places).
IMO, the best things you can do for smokers is to use effective reason to dismantle any eroneous justifactions they may have for their smoking.
An example being the common smokers myth that smoking is an expression of choice.
Smokers will generally use that as a kind of slogan, they'll whip it out and present it as some kind of logical point, without actually wanting to get into what it actually means or examine in it is actually valid.
If you do analyse the 'smoking=choice' statement, it will fall apart.
How can- what is one of the most addictive substances known to man, and one which millions world wide on a daily basis, choose to cease using, yet invariably find themselves back on again days/weeks later- be associated with anything other than an absolute lack of choice?
Smoking is the enemy of choice; those misguided individuals who wish to promote smoking as an act of choice, are themselves enemies of choice (IMO).
--------------------------
Most important when entering into dialogue with smokers, is to stick to calm logic, and do not put them down.
Many smokers unconsciously steer these kind of conversations towards emotiveness and hostility, because then they can be confirmed in the comfortable belief that the world is against them, and that, in continuing their habit, they are in some way standing up for something.
This is a defence mechanism which protects them from the more unpleasant option of seeing that the argument being presented is actually right.
For your own peace of mind, it's also important to identifiy those smokers who, whilst giving the impression that they're open to reason and wishing to enter into dialogue, are actually doing so because they like a good argument- they're getting into it to boost their own egos.
Personally, the only time I get into discussions with smokers is when I believe they're open to reason- if it becomes apparent they're not, I make my excuses and leave.
IMO, if you're going to engage in meaningful dialogue with smokers with the aim of helping them shed their addiction, you really need to know what you're talking about, because otherwise,they're liable to just get even more ensconced in their views.
Lastly, as this has occured earlier in the thread, I'll address another smokers myth, that of the 'considerate smoker'.
They do exist...now..
Certainly though, 20 years ago, there was no real consideration.
My parents, like many others, smoked through pregnancy; and, after that, through every day of my formative/growing up years i was, like many others, exposed to high levels of cigarette smoke at home.
In those days it was legal to smoke on buses, and people did, a great deal- buses then where like pubs are now- deeply unpleasant.
IMO, consideration displayed by smokers these days, has come about mainly due to the changing social additudes towards smoking and the enforcement of legislation.
---------------
Smokers- I'm with you. Seriously, I used to smoke uncontrolably myself and I've been through every possible permutation of smoking (non-smoker, light smoker, deluded smoker, acceptance-of-addict-status smoker and, finally, the rare state of ex-smoker (for life)) and I understand smoking.
If you want to quit, and nothing else is working, and you're serious about it, then get in touch, I may be able to help.
Ideally, that would take place on a public thread, so lots of other people can benefit as well; but, if you feel more comfortable making initial appraoches via pm, then feel free to do so.
I appreciate that, from the perspective of some smokers, I may seem hostile to smokers, I can assure you I'm not, i'm simply telling it how I see it- in my eyes, smokers are victims, and I say that not to insult smokers, but because it is the truth, and, as such, recognising that is part of the way to escape the smoking trap.
=================
Without wishing to appear arrogant or presumptious, I think it's fair to say that I can now lay claim to the "most serious and well-argued post ever to appear in a 'Chat' thread" record- do I win a prize?
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
playing the days away
7,263 posts
Location: The Middle lands, United Kingdom
Posted:
Brilliant post Dave
Ont he coice issue, I think that the choice to start and continnue smoking is down to the individual. If they want to quit but can't it's a shame and help should be available but if we legislated against every addictive substance or addictive act (ie gambling etc) available we'd live in a pretty hum drum world.
I think legislation to change the country in a way that will damage the current social structure is a bad thing and only serve to promote a black market to satisfy the demand that will inevitably, and obviously, still exist. There should be places like pubs for folks to go to to have a smoke with others (be they smokers or not) without feeling they are ostricised from the rest of the world.
Cigarrette butts on the streets are a menace, if they were paper/card (like Roaches) I wouldnt mind as they'd quickly biodegrade and return to nature in a very short time, but being made of synthetic polymer cellulose acetate they don't degrade and leach chemicals like cadmium, lead and arsenic into the marine environment
Thats if the little fishies and other water creatures haven't swallowed them first
Apparently 4.3 trillion non-degradable cigarrette butts are littered every year throughout the world, that's a lot!
Brilliant post Dave
Ont he coice issue, I think that the choice to start and continnue smoking is down to the individual. If they want to quit but can't it's a shame and help should be available but if we legislated against every addictive substance or addictive act (ie gambling etc) available we'd live in a pretty hum drum world.
I think legislation to change the country in a way that will damage the current social structure is a bad thing and only serve to promote a black market to satisfy the demand that will inevitably, and obviously, still exist. There should be places like pubs for folks to go to to have a smoke with others (be they smokers or not) without feeling they are ostricised from the rest of the world.
Cigarrette butts on the streets are a menace, if they were paper/card (like Roaches) I wouldnt mind as they'd quickly biodegrade and return to nature in a very short time, but being made of synthetic polymer cellulose acetate they don't degrade and leach chemicals like cadmium, lead and arsenic into the marine environment
Thats if the little fishies and other water creatures haven't swallowed them first Apparently 4.3 trillion non-degradable cigarrette butts are littered every year throughout the world, that's a lot!
Let's relight this forum
Miss Whippy
1,262 posts
Location: Cornwall & Oxford
1,262 posts
Location: Cornwall & Oxford
Posted:
I have a few questions for the smokers amoung us.
Firstly, being a non-smoker, i have never understood the attraction. Does it taste nice? Do smokers who have been smoking for years still like the taste? Did you get into it because of peer pressure or because you thought itd be yummy?
Lastly, and most importantly, do you want to quit?
There is a lot of help available nowadays for people who want to quit, so many patches, substitutes and support groups that 'lack of help' is no excuse for not quitting.
I'm not having a dig at smokers, this is a genuine question.
I have a few questions for the smokers amoung us.
Firstly, being a non-smoker, i have never understood the attraction. Does it taste nice? Do smokers who have been smoking for years still like the taste? Did you get into it because of peer pressure or because you thought itd be yummy?
Lastly, and most importantly, do you want to quit?
There is a lot of help available nowadays for people who want to quit, so many patches, substitutes and support groups that 'lack of help' is no excuse for not quitting.
I'm not having a dig at smokers, this is a genuine question.
Aim high and you'll know your limits, aim low and you'll never know how high you could have climbed.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
Cheers Dunc
If they can't quit?
A huge proportion of those who dabble with cigarettes end up as the 40-120 a day addicts several decades later.
The majority of those who become moderate/heavy users will be full-on addicts till the day they die.
It's the nature of nicotine, physiologically, psycologically and sociologically, it's pretty much the most perfect drug based trap in the world.
Dunc, you know for a fact that it's the young who are targetted- most smokers started when they were 18 or under.
Kids as young as 12, in some areas, are either 'experimenting' with, or are already addicted to, cigarettes.
They're far too young and naive to even remotely understand what they've got into.
I think it's outrageous that kids of 12 are addicted to a substance which is responsible for more deaths in the Western world, than all other avoidable causes put together- I think if you reflect on it, you will too.
Kids+cigarettes do not have any connection with choice, other than they are a perverted anti-thesis of it.
To clarify, i'm not arguing for total pro-hibition when I speak of legislation- rather a simple extension of the highly successful bans on buses, colleges, some workplaces etc; to cover all workplaces.
I'd say it's perhaps presumptious for you to slip in, without substatiating, the assertion that smoking bans will damage the current social structure.
I would argue that the current social structure will be much improved with the continuing diminishing of public smoking; if only cos I can start going to pubs from which I've effectivley been ostracised from by the fact that they currently make me feel ill
But, on a more serious note, the less future generations of kids are taught, by the social conditions around them, that smoking is normal, acceptable, a matter of choice etc; and the more they see smoking presented as what it really is- an illness/addiction- then, IMO, all the better for society.
Finally, while I'm not going to argue for total prohibition of smoking, I will address your concern (it's a common one) that smoking could be driven underground.
IMO, of all drugs, smoking is the least likely to cause a problem with black market trade and undeground usage, as-
1. There's already a thriving black-market trade- I had you down as a bit of a hippy Dunc, do you really know that many people who get there baccie from legal outlets
2. I'd say that underground smoking is preferable in every way to public smoking, at least less kids are going to have to witness it; it leaves public air cleaner; and I can't see that many problems with accidental overdoses etc. I'm happy for it to go underground; and here's a smilie to prove it
It's nice to see you care about the environment.
When I think of people who care, like you- and without wishing to categorise and lump together, I reflect on things they often have in common-
1. love of freedom and choice
2. dislike of corporations who, through their business, brutalise underdeveloped nations, individuals and the environment
3. willingness to stand up for what they believe in i.e. protest marchs and boycotts of products (e.g. Nestle)
Unfortunatly, they also seem to have a tendency to smoke
Does that influence, I wonder, the fact that, quite-out-of-character, not only do they neglect to target tobacco corporations who are as responsible for more human suffering, exploitation and environmental destruction than most other corporations; they actively support them by buying their product.
I said previously that I believe it's important to stay calm and rational and not get emotional on this issue, but I'll be honest here and maybe show my flawed nature: - when I go to a gathering/poi meet and see the majority of, supposedly, knowledgable, choice-loving, evil-corporation hating young people; smoking rollies, cigs and lacing their spliffs with tobacco, in front of children, if makes me feel sick.
Not so much because they're addicted to nicotine, in the world we live in that's totally understandable; it's not even when they blindly refuse to follow any line of reasoning that will lead to the conclusion that they are addicts (that's understandable, it's not easy to face up to).
No, it's when they go beyond this, and start griping about perfectly reasonable legislative attempts to diminsh use of this horrific poison; when they are so willing to suspend all power of logic by stating (not even arguing for) that smoking is an expression of choice!.
There's no shame in having fallen victim to possible the most perfect addiction trap in existence, but please, don't support it by perpetuating the tired old myths and untruths that claim that there is any good whatsoever in smoking.
Written by: Dunc
Brilliant post Dave
Cheers Dunc
Written by: Dunc
Ont he coice issue, I think that the choice to start and continnue smoking is down to the individual. If they want to quit but can't it's a shame and help should be available but if we legislated against every addictive substance or addictive act (ie gambling etc) available we'd live in a pretty hum drum world.
If they can't quit?
A huge proportion of those who dabble with cigarettes end up as the 40-120 a day addicts several decades later.
The majority of those who become moderate/heavy users will be full-on addicts till the day they die.
It's the nature of nicotine, physiologically, psycologically and sociologically, it's pretty much the most perfect drug based trap in the world.
Dunc, you know for a fact that it's the young who are targetted- most smokers started when they were 18 or under.
Kids as young as 12, in some areas, are either 'experimenting' with, or are already addicted to, cigarettes.
They're far too young and naive to even remotely understand what they've got into.
I think it's outrageous that kids of 12 are addicted to a substance which is responsible for more deaths in the Western world, than all other avoidable causes put together- I think if you reflect on it, you will too.
Kids+cigarettes do not have any connection with choice, other than they are a perverted anti-thesis of it.
Written by: Dunc
I think legislation to change the country in a way that will damage the current social structure is a bad thing and only serve to promote a black market to satisfy the demand that will inevitably, and obviously, still exist. There should be places like pubs for folks to go to to have a smoke with others (be they smokers or not) without feeling they are ostricised from the rest of the world.
To clarify, i'm not arguing for total pro-hibition when I speak of legislation- rather a simple extension of the highly successful bans on buses, colleges, some workplaces etc; to cover all workplaces.
I'd say it's perhaps presumptious for you to slip in, without substatiating, the assertion that smoking bans will damage the current social structure.
I would argue that the current social structure will be much improved with the continuing diminishing of public smoking; if only cos I can start going to pubs from which I've effectivley been ostracised from by the fact that they currently make me feel ill
But, on a more serious note, the less future generations of kids are taught, by the social conditions around them, that smoking is normal, acceptable, a matter of choice etc; and the more they see smoking presented as what it really is- an illness/addiction- then, IMO, all the better for society.
Finally, while I'm not going to argue for total prohibition of smoking, I will address your concern (it's a common one) that smoking could be driven underground.
IMO, of all drugs, smoking is the least likely to cause a problem with black market trade and undeground usage, as-
1. There's already a thriving black-market trade- I had you down as a bit of a hippy Dunc, do you really know that many people who get there baccie from legal outlets
2. I'd say that underground smoking is preferable in every way to public smoking, at least less kids are going to have to witness it; it leaves public air cleaner; and I can't see that many problems with accidental overdoses etc. I'm happy for it to go underground; and here's a smilie to prove it
Written by: Dunc
Cigarrette butts on the streets are a menace, if they were paper/card (like Roaches) I wouldnt mind as they'd quickly biodegrade and return to nature in a very short time, but being made of synthetic polymer cellulose acetate they don't degrade and leach chemicals like cadmium, lead and arsenic into the marine environment
Apparently 4.3 trillion non-degradable cigarrette butts are littered every year throughout the world, that's a lot!
It's nice to see you care about the environment.
When I think of people who care, like you- and without wishing to categorise and lump together, I reflect on things they often have in common-
1. love of freedom and choice
2. dislike of corporations who, through their business, brutalise underdeveloped nations, individuals and the environment
3. willingness to stand up for what they believe in i.e. protest marchs and boycotts of products (e.g. Nestle)
Unfortunatly, they also seem to have a tendency to smoke
Does that influence, I wonder, the fact that, quite-out-of-character, not only do they neglect to target tobacco corporations who are as responsible for more human suffering, exploitation and environmental destruction than most other corporations; they actively support them by buying their product.
I said previously that I believe it's important to stay calm and rational and not get emotional on this issue, but I'll be honest here and maybe show my flawed nature: - when I go to a gathering/poi meet and see the majority of, supposedly, knowledgable, choice-loving, evil-corporation hating young people; smoking rollies, cigs and lacing their spliffs with tobacco, in front of children, if makes me feel sick.
Not so much because they're addicted to nicotine, in the world we live in that's totally understandable; it's not even when they blindly refuse to follow any line of reasoning that will lead to the conclusion that they are addicts (that's understandable, it's not easy to face up to).
No, it's when they go beyond this, and start griping about perfectly reasonable legislative attempts to diminsh use of this horrific poison; when they are so willing to suspend all power of logic by stating (not even arguing for) that smoking is an expression of choice!.
There's no shame in having fallen victim to possible the most perfect addiction trap in existence, but please, don't support it by perpetuating the tired old myths and untruths that claim that there is any good whatsoever in smoking.
"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."
--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32
Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!
GOLD Member
Member
89 posts
Location: Caves Beach, NSW, Australia
Member
89 posts
Location: Caves Beach, NSW, Australia
Posted:
Never been a smoker so I cannot comment on many of the issues raised from personal experience but at a social event yesterday I observed 3 things that I found disturbing.
1 An 18 month old girl being held in one arm, by the mother who had a cigarette in the other
2 An ex smoker (of 9 months) deliberately seeking out the sidestream smoke of a smoker
3 Another ex smoker of 9 months boasting about how "disciplined' she had been as a smoker in following self imposed rules for when she could smoke, and then stating that she would probably be back smoking in 2 years since that has been her past pattern.
Jeff
Never been a smoker so I cannot comment on many of the issues raised from personal experience but at a social event yesterday I observed 3 things that I found disturbing.
1 An 18 month old girl being held in one arm, by the mother who had a cigarette in the other
2 An ex smoker (of 9 months) deliberately seeking out the sidestream smoke of a smoker
3 Another ex smoker of 9 months boasting about how "disciplined' she had been as a smoker in following self imposed rules for when she could smoke, and then stating that she would probably be back smoking in 2 years since that has been her past pattern.
Jeff
GOLD Member
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Pooh-Bah
2,109 posts
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA
Posted:
One thing I dislike are the people who say "Could you put out that cigarette? Im allergic"
Give me a break. Youre no more allergic to it than I am. Im sure the smoke irritates you but you arent gonna break out in hives or have your throat close up on you from it. How about you grow some balls and not give excuses as to why you want my cig out.
One thing I dislike are the people who say "Could you put out that cigarette? Im allergic"
Give me a break. Youre no more allergic to it than I am. Im sure the smoke irritates you but you arent gonna break out in hives or have your throat close up on you from it. How about you grow some balls and not give excuses as to why you want my cig out.
Let's turn those old bridges we crossed into ashes.
We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.
-Me
SILVER Member
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
coming to a country near you
4,696 posts
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear, Australia
Posted:
props once again to dave, still really good writings
props once again to dave, still really good writings
"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"
jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley
BRONZE Member
Redneck Woman
566 posts
Location: Texas, Yeeeeehaaaaaw, USA
Redneck Woman
566 posts
Location: Texas, Yeeeeehaaaaaw, USA
Posted:
no it tatses nasty
ive been smoking for 5 yrs and i still dont like the taste
i started cause, well i dont kno why
no i dont want to quit
i already tried and i gain a lot of weight
i am a vain person and i cant stand the thought of being fat
oh yea str8jakit or how ever u spell it
SHUT UP
u kno i luv ya
Written by: Beth
I have a few questions for the smokers amoung us.
Firstly, being a non-smoker, i have never understood the attraction. Does it taste nice? Do smokers who have been smoking for years still like the taste? Did you get into it because of peer pressure or because you thought itd be yummy?
Lastly, and most importantly, do you want to quit?
There is a lot of help available nowadays for people who want to quit, so many patches, substitutes and support groups that 'lack of help' is no excuse for not quitting.
I'm not having a dig at smokers, this is a genuine question.
no it tatses nasty
ive been smoking for 5 yrs and i still dont like the taste
i started cause, well i dont kno why
no i dont want to quit
i already tried and i gain a lot of weight
i am a vain person and i cant stand the thought of being fat
oh yea str8jakit or how ever u spell it
SHUT UP
u kno i luv ya
Top Three Things I've Learn While Being A Mom
1. Baby poop comes in many colors.
2. Makes sure all dirty diapers are not accessable to my dog.
3. Burp rags are not big enough.
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