Forums > Other Toys > Sparkly poi.... new ideas....

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:GruntLaFreak and I have recently started experimenting with "fire wire"... or sparky-poi, using a chicken-wire cage with wire wool bundles stuffed inside. Obviously, too much wire wool, and you end up with a very short burn time and a whole chunk of metal sitting in the bottom of the cage... etc. We know the basics. I need to know from others who might have done similar experimenting what to add to the wire wool to extend burn time.
I did my first (paid smile ) show on Friday night and I used sparkly poi with oblong cages (they looked like giant chicken-wire condoms *hehe*) and wire wool bundles that were broken up inside, over a dam. It looked absolutely amazing over the water, but the sparks hardly lasted long enough to do a full routine.

Anyhow, I'm going to experiment with some new designs (chickenwire and wire wool is cheap, mind you), but I don't want to rewrite the theory if it already exists.
Anyone tried this before? I've seen Jo Derry's Black Bush poi video... and yeah, I want some of that!

Help


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:I'm not really sure what you're asking

Are you asking how to make chicken wire cages last longer or how to make black bush poi?


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:blackbush will last longer than chickenwire, I think he just wants to extend his burn time

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:right but using black bushes or wire?

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Mint Sauce
veteran
Location: Lancs England
Member Since: 7th Sep 2003
Total posts: 1453
Posted:Ok so having done an extensive search of nearly all the threads containing wire wool and Sparkly poi respectively



I have come up with a bit of info.

But I have discovered an answer to a common myth confused.

Yes there are lots of sparkly poi threads but most of them are useless with limited info

And some quite outdated advice that is actually quite dangerous eek.



Wire wool spinning is spinning of wire gages (usually made of chicken wire) filled with burning wire wool it is very very dangerous as hot lumps of molten mettle are spraying out all over the place. frown



But it dose look very pretty. biggrin



I have used wire wool a few times and hear are my following top 20 tips.



1 make sure your cage construction is solid (dont want it falling apart mid spin)



2 make sure the holes in your cage are quite big not to big about 1 to 2 inches across



3 use fine grade wire wool it works better the finer the better



4 dont pack your cages to tight you need good air flow over the wool for it to work (as we found out in Falmouth)



5 opposite to 4 dont pack it to loose the burning wool wont pass its burn to the rest of the wool effectively (trial and error to get this right)



6 you dont need to dip if you do your cages are badly constructed with not enough air flow.



7 spin fast but dont do any body-cross moves (rotation flowers ect) (in-fact dont to flowers you dont want the poi head spinning towards you) (buzz saws are right out)



8 dont make your cages to big this will make them heavy and un-wielding



9 try to make the bottom of your cage round improves air flow over the hot end of the wool



10 in-fact tube shaped is best no sharp edges to catch on stuff



11 if you want to have longer burn time line your cages with a metal can so only the end of the wool burns and the rest feeds down into it as the wool burns away



12 if you do have feed tubes make sure they are smooth or the wool will just snag will not feed into the end of the cages



13 spin in the open (I mean open your back yard will not do)



14 dont spin near any combustible stuff IE the dry ground, cars, people, buildings that sort of stuff. best done after a good rain shower



15 keep people and animals well back say 20 m or so (you never know what might happen (we once had a head come completely come off))



16 keep all skin and hair well covered ( I got a very bad burn just by one glancing my arm)



17 if stuff dose go wrong drop them and walk away dont try to put them out they are dam dam hot if you can drop a very damp towel on them or even better fire blanket



18 when you have finished dont try to empty the remains out straight away wait for it to cool the lump in the bottom is semi molten metal and is hot



19 empty the remains into a metal tin it will still be hot for a long time (dont want to start any fires now do we wink)



20 be sure you are a good spinner dont do silly stuff and practice with full cages unlit to get used to the feel of them









Out of the links I did find some were vary good please read them all before even attempting wool work





This link has some great safety info by fireNice and has some good replies.



Wire Wool Safety



This one has a bit of useful info and some nice links by fluffy



(LINK COMMING SOON SEARCH IS PLAYING UP redface)







A quote from Frodo someone whos advice I would trust.

Written by: Frodo


use the finest grade wire wool that you can, DONT dip, and dont light!!!



sound confusing? well just use a normal household 9V battery, thats what i use, dry wire wool and a 9V it makes an even brighter wall of wooll!!!





dont take my word for it, try it!!



frodo out





Hear is a pick of a good design with a feeding tin for longer burn times.



http://home.wanadoo.nl/rhoutappel/plaatjes/poi/wirewoolpoi.jpg
br>






This is just an example one of the many picks I have found and is how not to go about it not enough space sparks are hitting what looks like a wooden fence and who knows what is on the other side of the fence ( may be a cat doing an impression of a dog wwooooooooofffffff)



http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=3444
br>






Always think safety first ubbangel

cool





ubbangel ps if someone could spell check this for me I would be most grateful ubbangel



before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:@ fireNice: I'd done a search for wire wool and sparkly poi, but didn't come up with much... perhaps my research skills need honing. I was basically asking for advice on the best design or generally useful tips for spinning wire wool....

and I'm not sure I completely "get" the whole definition of "black bush" poi....

@ Lurch: what exactly is the difference between black bush poi and wire wool poi? btw... I'm a girl wink


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:black bush poi refer to using something similar to coffe cans or tennis ball can holders with wires at the bottom that're attached to chains, and the wool comes out the bottom



wool duration question



specifically

Written by: funken


Black Bush Poi

its a hollow tube with a kevlar rope X on one side and the chains atached to the other

you can fill it with steel wool and it lasts a while

grets steve





also



jo's black bush thread minus working links


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:Okay, I just read the stuff in the Social Discussion forum... I thought all the technical advice would be under "Other toys"... anyway

@ Mint Sauce: THANK YOU!!! yes, I agree about most of the threads being useless with limited info. Maybe we can build this thread for those wanting to make wire wool poi, CONSCIOUSLY AWARE of the dangers and yet heeding all the warnings and putting on a good, safe show nonetheless.

I use the wire wool bundles, pulling them apart a bit to create more airflow and finer sparks. I haven't yet had "hot lumps of molten metal spraying all over the place"... probably because my chicken wire has holes of about 15mm... and no more.

1. solid cage: check.

2. small holes: check

3. very fine wool: check

4 and 5. definitely trial and error regarding wool packing... I've had a few half-burns... the kids enjoyed the relighting, though. And on a safety note, I was spinning over a dam and the closest audience members were 20 m away.

6. adding fuel to the equation is not smart. I found this out the first time. i just use a fire pot to light the wool in the bottom of the cage.

7. I've mostly spun weaves and butterflies... but as I said, I want to increase burn time so that I can actually have a go at a routine. I like the way Jo Derry used half-corkscrew, half-windmill in the black bush video, to avoid body-contact. More at 16, though....

8. cage size: check. I've spun with HEAVY cages before and I was actually scared. We made oblong cages now: 30cm long, and about 6cm wide. Not very big... but obviously I'm still in the experiment stage smile I'm going to use that design pic for references, THANKS!!

9. round bottom end: check (it was the only way I could close off the tube wink )

10. done

11. This is friggin GENIUS. I was racking my brains trying to think of the longer burn time solution. Dude... BRILLIANT! I could kiss your feet right now!

12. I will put this in motion on the double...

13. Spinning in the open: check. See above about spinning over the dam, etc... wink

14 and 15: check

16. My upper arms were uncovered (I had kevlar sleeves up to my elbows for normal poi), and once I spun with cut-off (at the knees) jeans. The sparks felt like those coming off an angle-grinder... but perhaps this is testimony to the fact that I'm using VERY fine wire wool... ?? I will stay covered in future!

17 Spinning over a dam does mean instant access to water smile If stuff goes wrong, I have no qualms about jumping into the dam or throwing the cages in....

18. My last design and amount of wire wool hardly left any metal in the bottom of the cage, but I just dipped them in water and that did the trick of cooling off.

19. what remains?? wink yeah. i get you.

20. It took me 8 months of soft poi before I dared use fire poi. and only after 6 months of fire poi did I dare touch wire wool poi... I reckon I'm quite a good spinner, thanks smile
-------------------

Okay, so thanks also for the Wire wool safety link... I didn't expect it under social discussion, so i didn't look there redface oops.

Also, re: Frodo's advice... no lighting? How does the 9V work then? Friction? I'm so confused...

thanks thanks thanks for everything...
also, who needs spell check? As long as we comprende then it's all fine I guess.


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:wirewool's metal...when you touch the 9v battery to the wool it forms a circuit, which heats up...and then the wool catches fire and voila

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:@ fireNice: I'm trying to picture it based on Jo's video... it's the whole wire and can thing with wire wool, plus kevlar rope added into the equation?
Sorry for being so "pressing" about it, but I really am looking for the best, longest-burning, most-impressive, not to mention SAFEST design.

And thanks a million for the help... I did do a search, but most of the stuff I came up with was rather vague, so I wanted to start a thread that explained everything with clarity and basic words... so that newbies to the wire wool experience can understand it all too
*points to self*

ta


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:See... now that's where taking Art instead of Physics failed me wink hehe... thanks. Gotta try that one too!

If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:heck someone told me that, we use a creme-bru-let (sp?) lighter

and if you go here poi vid (right click save as) from 2:43 to 2:56 you'll see insanity biggrin

thank god we got it on the first try, loading 6 cages was a pain in the censored


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:sheesh, 37mb... I'm gonna be here a while...

loading 2 tubes with a couple of balls of wire wool is bad enough... and such a short spin makes it almost not-worthwhile... but I will get it right!
Now to find metal tennis ball cannisters without having to pay through my nose for them...

haha... I just googled (images) "Black Bush Whisky"... and now it ALL makes sense! HAHA. The name, the tin, everything!


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:if i had a working comp i'd be able to chop it shrug



[EDIT] its not my vid, so don't go assuming, but yes i am in there somewhere

EDITED_BY: fireNice (1138008373)


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:Minty there is a spell checked version in your PM box hun.

Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:Naa... it's okay. I'm complaining more about my inet connection (we're really slow down here in SA) than the size of the video. The connection just dropped and it was on 51%... restarting is a beeyatch.

we had a 24MB broadband connection in Amsterdam... and came home to a 128kb connection, only upgraded to 1MB connection (though I'm not getting more than a 16kb/s download speed *grrrr!*)... I think they're clipping any downloads and that sucks. Infrastructure, people, infrastructure.

Anyhow... sparkly poi, where were we? wink


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:yeah, its more about presentation than lasting long. I'd say its next to impossible to make a routine (an interesting one anyway) but maybe that's just me. If it comes as a sudden shock to the audience, they'll be more appreciative than if you're standing there going

weave, butterfly, weave, butterfly

gets monotonous

now three people, that's a fun time wink


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:I'll have trouble getting 3 people all doing sparkly poi - even regular poi - at the same time.
Been trying to get a group together for AGES now and I don't know why, but the commitment level towards spinning arts where I live is zero to nil... and I don't know why! I've introduced to to people, offering free lessons and what not and they just couldn't be bothered...

Anyhow... maybe it's less corporate competition for me if I go at it alone... the bucks are pretty good right now...


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:you don't need many spinners it was just a reference to the vid smile

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Lurch
Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon
Member Since: 1st Nov 2003
Total posts: 929
Posted:Well my apologies ma'am

And yeah, fNi already explained blackbush, mine were actually made from soup cans with a simple cross 'dome' on the bottom *hides*

But they worked well enough, and I could shove 6-8 pads in each, you want to unroll the wool and stuff it instead of just dropping them in. it will give you a more even burn, and will transition between the different pads much better.. and just be smoother...

The beauty of the blackbush ones is that the only bit that is burning is the end, as opposed to a cage where the side is burning as well. As a result your burn time is cut down because your 'wick' is eating itself from all around it instead of just up the end.. Plus if you're spinning hard enough the cans will "auto" feed from the force trying to shove the wool out the bottom.


#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:Such a cool video! I've also just mastered throwing and catching both poi... glad to see I'm not the only fool doing it wink

I must say, though, that as cool as it looks with 3 guys doing wire wool poi, the amount of sparks that fly off my set would mean a lot of singe marks on the other 2 dudes... but, working on it wink

@Lurch: yeah, the can in the cage has been the most enlightening thing for me today smile I'm definitely going to do that!

Now just think if someone who's never heard of wire wool or black bush poi comes across this thread.... cool eh?


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:every now and again the photo from my gallery pops up in the frontpage

its the one with two side by side wirewoolers taken from a nice angled shot


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:yeah, I saw that... awesome!

Me and Grant (GruntLaFreak) will probably end up doing that soon. He stays on a farm, so there's PLENTY of open space for lots of safe sparks flying off in all directions.

Gotta go... but I'll be back soon

THANKS you guys have all been a HUGE help to me

*lots of hugs all around*


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:Nice work Mint Sauce

smile


Getting to the other side smile

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Vixen
Vixen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Oxfordshire/Wiltshire
Member Since: 10th Jan 2004
Total posts: 3276
Posted:Chickens wear condoms? xxx

tHeReS gOoD aNd EvIl iN EaCh InDiViDuAl fIrE, iDeNtIfIeS nEeDs AnD fEeDs OuR dEsIrEs.

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:haha... depends on how you read "chicken wire condom".... wink lolsign

If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:*bump*

If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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FireSmurf
FireSmurf

member
Location: Northern Ireland, Antrim, Ball...
Member Since: 30th Sep 2005
Total posts: 31
Posted:After very extensiv use of sparkle pois ive found that the tubesparkle is not the way to go if you want nice good spread and spectacular pois. Insted make a big loop of 5mm fencewire and weave a good amount stealwool around it. Then turn the ring into a dubble helix and turn the healix to a ball. you should end up with somthing that looks like a steelwool ball. The burntime is adjusted by the amount of steel wool. There is almost no waist of steelwool. it gives a nice steady relise and its just as safe as the cage if not safer becose u ust end up with the fence wire in the end and you can easly dip that in a can or water for fast cooldown or just put it on any wet ground.

Thomas Bjork
[Fire Artist]
[clown]

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:that sounds like a good plan, but then how do you reuse the chicken wire / fence wire? chicken wire is sometimes difficult and awkward (and sore) to manipulate, so I want something that's going to be reusable as a container, into which I just pack the steelwool....

I will try your idea, though and let you know how it goes... smile


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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How much for a truckload of feathers?
Location: West Rand, Johannesburg, Gaute...
Member Since: 10th Feb 2005
Total posts: 108
Posted:I just found 2 spaghetti tins to which I'm going to attach keyrings and chain, and into which I'll be drilling holes at the bottom through which burning steel wool will fly. No chicken wire involved here.

Has someone tried something similar..? Am I wasting my time and my spaghetti tins? (I looked for any kind of alcohol that comes in a tin, and found none - ref to Black Bush, of course).

Feedback pweeez....


If you eat your dessert before your dinner, you will live longer. Living longer means more fire....

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Anthson
newbie

Member Since: 8th May 2006
Total posts: 16
Posted:I'm interested in color variations. Has anyone experimented with adding certain elements to the steel wool to produce different colors?

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