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Page: 123
irkje
member
Location: alkmaar
Member Since: 10th Dec 2002
Total posts: 6
Posted:to everyone but especially to the Americans, what de f*ck is Bush doeing? and most of all why? why only Iraq? China also has massdestruction weapons, USA also has nuclear weapons, haven't they? please give your opinion
erik


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twisted
member
Location: stevenage / hertfordshire / uk
Member Since: 14th Nov 2002
Total posts: 12
Posted:im just pissed off with the whole thing
its all sooo stupid
war is for losers


when the wheeles of life are burning , stear them in to hell and let them turn to dust

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Okay, officially:

President Bush is trying to remove a corrupt leader from a poor and abused country. He is also trying to protect Curds (sp) from genocide (sp). Saddam has in the past used chemical weapons on his own people and other living in Iraq. He has an iron grip over his people to the extent that if they say anything against him he will either kill that person and improson his family or just throw them in prison. An Iraqi prison isnt the nicest think in the world.

Unoffically:

I think he is out to prove to himself that he is just like daddy. I am sure oil factors in there somewhere but that is even more unoffical than the unoffical stuff. However an America friendly government would mean cheap oil from Iraq.

Key points:

Saddam needs to be removed from power, one way or another.

Saddam has tested bio and chemical weapons on his own people.

In the past twelve years Saddam has been given 3 orders from the UN (includeing this last one), the first two did not promise military action if he did not do as the UN said. So Saddam did whatever he wanted.

I do not think he is a stupid man, technologically he is not as advanced but he has had 12 years to hide his missiles, plant land mines.

He knew this was comming years ago.

My bigest fear is that once we are done with Iraq, that North Korea will be next. I garunete that President Bush is a bit on edge over the N. Koreans having nukes.

Trust me after being there, seeing the DMZ and all the Patriot missiles lining the flightline, it makes me a bit on edge. hehe I could always tell what way was North hehe


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Wow...I actually agree with a good deal of what Ray has to say on this issue!

But there's one other issue with this President:

Amerika uber alles.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:You really have to question what the president is doing when the prime minister of Germany starts calling him a nazi for what he's doing.......

Jesus helps me trick people.

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star sign
member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:

Where did you find that? I want one.


Jesus helps me trick people.

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Mike umm English bud, that doc language means nothing to me hehe

I didnt know that the German president is calling President Bush a Nazi, how intersting.

Shadesofblue, hey man thats kinda rude.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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star sign
member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:I cant remeber where i found it, but hey, you can have mine..Remember kids, support T.W.A.T!!

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:I heard about that nazi comment on BBC world news about a month ago. I doubt if it made the normal American press.

Jesus helps me trick people.

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member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:It was a german minister called Ms Dabler-Gmelin who was alleged to have said "Bush wants to distract attention from his domestic problems-That's a popular method. Even Hitler did that."
She swore she was misquoted and took legal action i think.....


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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:Well, a nazi by any other name........

Jesus helps me trick people.

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Raphael96
old hand
Location: New York City
Member Since: 8th Sep 2002
Total posts: 899
Posted:Clinton said recently that in times of trouble and especially in times of economic struggle, people would rather have a strong leader who is doing something wrong than a weak leader who is doing something right.

This worked for Stalin and Hitler too, so its no surprise that Bush is trying it now.

It is unfortunate.


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dulce flames
member
Location: Oceanside, California USA
Member Since: 8th Mar 2002
Total posts: 234
Posted:o.i.l. that's big here in the U.S.A.
sadamm is scary enough to paint an ugly picture and well, like father, like son... He'll use that scare tactic to justify his actions.

makes for a scarey situation.. makes me remember how i was a bit scared on election day when it looked like Bush had won..Then again, Sadamm has done some horrible things and deserves to be punished...It's hard to come up with a solid answer about the situation... Let's just wish us all luck in getting through it as we work out the whys..


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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I dont believe the emphisis should be on President Bush. It should be on the current situation in Iraq. I doubt that the picture is being doctored to make Iraq look worse than it is.

You really cant blame anyone outside of the the Iraqi government for the condition of the country. Dont forget, that it was Iraq that decided to attack Kuait. Nobody made Saddam do it.

It is terrible that the people have to live under those sercumstances, I know that they are good people and they deserve better.

Can you honestly tell me a better way to get rid of Saddam?


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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SickpuPpy
SickpuPpy

Ninja Rockstar!
Location: Denver, Co. U.S.A.
Member Since: 27th Nov 2001
Total posts: 1100
Posted:While I agree it is doubtful that the "picture is being doctored to make Iraq look worse than it is", I do think that the president is making the situation out to be much more dire than it actually is.

I don't recall Iraq ever attacking the US, obviously other than attacking a military that was threatening his borders. I don't recall Iraq stating any threats on the American people other than President Bush's fixation on his weapons of mass distruction.

Just because we are the most powerful country in the world does that mean then that we are to be the world police? Funny I was always taught that part of freedom was respecting the freedom of others, and as the representation of freedom in the world aren't we supposed to respect the soverignty of other nations even though we may disagree with thier methods and politics?

What do we have to prove? Wouldn't it be better to just pull out of the middle east, and rebuild out quickly failing economy. The amount of oil produced by the middle east is a realitivly small percentage compared to the world oil supply. Or even better, spend billion dollars a day it would cost for a war in Iraq, or even the six billion dollars a year it costs to keep out troops in Saudi Arabia and put it into research for hydrogen fuel cell technology. I'll bet if we did that we would have a solid cost effective (almost zero environmental impact) hydrogen car in two years minimum and then if Iraq did attack us on our soil we could just nuke them and be done with it.


Jesus helps me trick people.

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Member Since: 29th Mar 2001
Total posts: 743
Posted:"Jeb said he'd deliver Florada, and Boy did he ever!" (ani)
It is all a big Family Fued! Over mostly Oil! Bush Jr. It A Moron we all know this!! Have you seen him on TV? He looks straight out of Mad Magizien! What a Dork! I will Not Fight His Family Fued!!
Did you know there was only 3 plains in the air on 9/11/2001? One was the nimrod himself, the others where the Binladen Family Bush let go!!!
I would have taken them down and hald for ransom.
Anyway Love for Ones Country Always, Love for ones govenment when it Deserves it! This Govenment Sucks big Donky D!ck!!
~FS


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Sickpuppy, I do agree on some of what you said. Though it is more like 6 billion a year for the whole armed forces, not 6 billion for the ones in the middle east. The military was not threatining his boarders, they are patroling the No Fly Zone over Iraq that Saddam agreed to when he signed the peace agrement with Bush Sr.

I do agree that we should pull out of the middle east. Heck let them sort it out, but I shudder to think what can and would probably happen if we did pull out. India and Packistan would probably go at it. Iran would invade Iraq then Kuait, I mean mass pandimonium.

FireSpirit, I am sorry but your post was 100% wrong.

On Septermber 11 2001 there were more than 3 plains in there air, and there were pleanty schedualed to take off that day as well, including mine! It is not a family fued, and though President Bush does look like the Mad kid, making fun of how he looks doesnt do anything except make you look immature. I am not trying to offend you, and everyone knows that I am way guilty of looking immature but phrase your comments better if you would please.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:Raymund, Sep 11 was a terrible, terible thing, but can you honestly say that the war on terror is working? Its just making everything worse, and turning the arab world against the west completely. I agree, sadamm is not a nice bloke, but i cant see how bombing the shit out of thousands of innocent people can possibly make anything better..I mean, how the hell can you have a war on terror anyway? Its ridiculous!! The real problems in the middle east are not being adressed, like America`s support and funding of Israels war with the palastinians.....Sharon is as guilty as sadaam, so hey, why not bomb him,or maybe Putin for what hes done to Chechnya...Oh yeah, they might fight back, so maybe not....... IM SICK OF PEOPLE BEING KILLED IN MY NAME!!!

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:I do know how terrible September 11th was, you neednt remind me of it. The war on terror is about a year old and it has removed one corrupt government and one terrorist cell from power. I would say that it has done a good job thus far.

Innocents have died, and that is the worst thing to have happen. Look at the good things that have come from it. Women can start going to school, children can sing songs in the streets, men are allowd to look how they wish. The econimy will be slow to improve but I would expect nothing less.

Without the support of America Isrile would have been whiped out in 1973 when Eygpt and Serria attacked it. Do you want another attempt at genocyde?

Your right though, the whole situation there is messed up. There is terrorisim going on from both sides. Unfortunatly I am not in the position to suggest anything to my superiors, "...ours is but to do and die..." and stuff like that.

Nobody is going to be killed in your name. It is in mine and the people who are willing to pay the price of freedome. Unfortunaly the price of freedome can not be put into check form, but I will pay it none the less.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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star sign
member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:People ARE being killed in my name, as my government seems intent on follow the like sheep.. The bottom line is the war on terror will not work. Its the best recruitment drive Al Quaida could ever have..Fighting fire with fire. Fighting the IRA didnt work, did it? Only when we sat down and talked about it did things change. Bush is not leading us to freedom, hes leading us all to a f**cking huge war that doesnt need to happen. I`m not gonna die for a man who can barely string a sentence together. The forthcoming war in Iraq is not about freedom or terrorism, its about controlling the bulk of the middle east`s oil reserves, and finishing daddys business of course...

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:Heh saddam is as guilty as sharon?

I am hardly a supported of israel but that statement is just absurd.

If you want to make an equation try this.

Israels guilt is equal to palestines guilt.


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member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:Sharon was responsible for the Sabra and Shatila massacre in 1982 and hasn`t done a bad job of repeating it since he somehow got back into power..He`s a genocidal lunatic, just like bush and saddam.. To me, they are all on the same level...

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BEZERKER
BEZERKER

enthusiast

Member Since: 29th Apr 2001
Total posts: 237
Posted:Very, very briefly,

This attack is being made in the name T.W.A.T (fantastic pic) but my question is who is committing more acts of terroism at the moment?

I'd have to say Israel and Palestinians. Why not step in there and help fix that terrible situation rather than the tired old 'Saddam has terrorised his own people in the past and has bad weapons and must be removed' argument. I think there are more pressing issues of "terrorism" than Saddam and an all out attack.

Just how I see things......


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irkje
member
Location: alkmaar
Member Since: 10th Dec 2002
Total posts: 6
Posted:Thanks everyone for the reactions, now I know a lot more about it, I'm sure I'm against this war, because the reasons that Bush gives to attack Iraq are not important enough for a war like this. Only because of the idea that this war may start, it's going bad with the worldeconomy. I know there are more reasons for this, but it is a reason and that's why I'm against. Also because when Bush will attack Iraq for the reasons he gave (terrorists or chemical weapons), he must also attack countries like Jemen, Syria or N-Korea and that just sucks. So no war, Bush, try to maintain peace in the world.

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Astar
member
Location: Nova Scotia, Canada.
Member Since: 8th Nov 2002
Total posts: 1591
Posted:I like how everyone hates sharon (there are a lot of reasons to hate him) but somehow don't think it's completly hypocritical and biased to defend palestine in the same breath.

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member
Location: UK
Member Since: 13th Aug 2002
Total posts: 23
Posted:Its not about defending the Palastinians - of course the suicide bombings carried in Israel are wrong. The Arab world is furious at the bias shown by the west towards Israel, and the millions of dollars and arms that the US gives Israel every year. The US has to show an even hand and stop funding and backing Israel purely because its traditionaly an ally. If they dont there will never be peace. The Israel/Palastinian conflict is the key to peace throughout the region..Its also one of the main causes of Anti American feeling and resentment....

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FireSpirit
FireSpirit

Classic 90's Fire Dancer... Poi, Staff, Doubles, and Breathing
Location: South Lake Tahoe
Member Since: 29th Mar 2001
Total posts: 743
Posted:Its Ok Raymond, I realize you voted for him, but I still believe it's all in the family. I just can't believe he is in Presidency? It is still a shock! That man is screwing every thing Good Clinton set up! He is Daddys little Puppet.
And as for childish: I hate him! I Hate Him! I HATE HIM!!!!

~FS

[ 12. December 2002, 13:34: Message edited by: FireSpirit ]


FIRE IS ALIVE!
IT LIVES AND BREATHS!
IT CONSUMES, AND DISTROYS!
BUT WE CONTROL IT,
AND DANCE WITH FIRE!!

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Tika
member
Location: BC, Canada
Member Since: 1st Jan 2002
Total posts: 106
Posted:I also heard the nazi-Bush comparison on CBC and from my grandmother who was a nurse in WW2.

I think that Sept 11 and Iraq are 2 different issue. If Bush was simply fighting a war on terror why not go after Israel? Most of the terrorist responsible for 9/11 where from Israel and Israel has been known to fund Al-Queda. Why not go after North Korea who flat out said they have nuclear weapons? It make no sense. Bush says he has evidence that Iraq is producing weapons of mass destrustion, so where is it?

I think that this war will only in-flame anti- american sentiment. Thus creating more terrorism. Did you know that in the Canada/American border American customs are pulling Arab/Muslim Canadian citizens aside for finger-printing and questioning? Complaints to Canadian Immigration got so bad that they felt they had to issue a travellor warning to anyone travelling into the US. People where being pulled aside finger-printed and sometimes held for 2 hours for questioning. How would you react as an innocent person to such treatment?


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Rozi
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Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Simple answer to the above question: very badly. It is not right, it is not even very smart to target people just because of their appearance. (but unfortunately, sometimes these people don't have anything more to go on).

I accept the need to beef up security at national and international airports etc. It is vitally important to prevent the events of Sept 11 occurring. However any terrorist cell with one iota of sense would realise that they are not going to get through in exactly the same way again. So what would be more simple than to use people who do not fit the racial stereotype?

Terrorism has been around for a long time. And so have mercenaries. Mercenaries can be of any race. Yes, mercenaries are unlikely to go on suicide missions (that whole "being in it for the money" thing), but I am sure they would provide excellent cover in a time when only people of a certain race are being noticed.

Am I revealing a little too much of my mindset here?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Raymund Phule (Fireproof)
Raymund Phule (Fireproof)

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Location: San Diego California
Member Since: 31st Dec 2001
Total posts: 2905
Posted:Rozi, hehe there was a very famous train robber back in the youth of America who would rob a train, wait a day and then do it again in the exact same way. They did this because nobody would think that they would do the same thing twice. I think it is more consiveable that they will do things the same way.

I had not heard what has been happening on the American/Canaidian border and I must admit that it is jacked up, though I must agree with Rozi, perhaps they have nothing else to go on.

FireSpirit, actually I didnt vote for him but from the way I see it, I like President Bush more. He has given me 2 pay raises. Running around screaming "I HATE HIM" makes you look childish though!

Both Isrile and Palistine have been guilty of terrorisim, though like I said, it is not my place to decide what we should do. I think they should both shake hands or we should slap the both of em.

Unfortnuatly you cant maintain peace in the world, there will always be a country that will not accept help or will allow certain criminals to live happily in their country.

Personally I dont understand everything with the IRA, but it sounds to me that they are extream revoloutionists. I mean the Boston Tea Party could have been considerd a terrorist attack as well.

It is not about controling oil, Saudi Arabia is the biggest supplier of oil in the mid east, nobody controles that except the Saudies.


Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"

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