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Forums > Social Discussion > Google and the Bush Administration

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:For those of you who havn't heard, check out your favourite news feed. The Bush Admin has issued a supoena (months ago now) for google's records, a list of some or all of the sites indexed and either a week or a month or some similar amount of time... all the searches entered.

Google is fighting it of course, thank god, but still its worrying... and...

The (US) news media claims google's stock is falling "because its standing up for human rights" more or less... personally I would think its fallig because people are afraid it WILL start being used for surveillence.

Anyway, I'm sure you all have thoughts/worries/opinions....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Would the alternative of having no google in china have been better? umm

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:thats debatable, on the one hand i'm sure there are other search engines, but google is a company. whatever......

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:If you can't give a more ethical alternative to google's actions then you are not on good footing to criticise it's decision.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Patriarch917
SILVER Member since Oct 2005

Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA

Total posts: 607
Posted:Here's an ethical alternative: Google should cooperate with the Bush administration to help them with the problem of pornography, children, and child pornography. Then they should tell communist China that they will not be complicit in a plan to keep the Chinese population in the grip of communist censorship.

I guess the result of this would be that neither communists nor child pornographers will be as likely to use google, which would be ok with me if I owned the stock.


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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:lol, because i'm sure that checking for child porn would be ALL that bush uses it for, riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight............

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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Lurch
BRONZE Member since Nov 2003

Lurch

old hand
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 929
Posted:Duh, they're just going to collect data so they can destroy China in one swift blow when the United States of America and half the rest of the world becomes the United States of teh Google.

#homeofpoi -- irc.newnet.net Come talk to us we're bored frown

Warning: Please Do Not Jump On The Seals

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Because breaking into privacy is ever ethical? Perhaps there was better solution to the china issue, altho i'm unsure, of course, of the speicifics. But even for child pornography i don't see giving up freedoms.....

most especially not when i'm not even really getting anything back.....

those that would give up freedoms for safety... well, we've heard the story.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
Location: home of the tiney toothy bear,...

Total posts: 4693
Posted:and it starts with

"my one regret is"

wink


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:Well, I have received a number of emails lately promoting

'breaking up with Google for Valentines Day cos they broke my heart for China...."



One suggested that we try the search engine Clusty. I did. It's great. Groups responses (clusters them.. hence the name) into themes.

This is what they say about themselves:

*In the web's early days, engines didn't care whether you were dog, human, or other. How times have changed!



Now search engines want to know you very well indeed: your queries, the pages you visit, the books you buy, the email you send, your age, sex, zip code, etc. etc. This new world is an inviting target of snoops or agencies that want to analyze, censor, or monitor you.



We at Clusty don't track you. Our toolbar doesn't track you. We don't want to know your email address.



Just search, all the time. No questions asked.*



Anyone know more about this mob?



For all the nitty-gritty, legalese details, see our Privacy Policy.



*and yes, I have posted this in another thread about Google... but better than starting a new one eh wink


.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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Ange_GSC
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Ange_GSC

HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
Location: Bay Area, California, USA

Total posts: 128
Posted:I remember that french google joke, if you visit the page, they have a huge insulting story about how awful and annoying France is with bad facts that arent even all true. its completely degrading, rude, and one sided, I didn't think it was funny at all.

missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"

^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Personally I thought it was pretty funny.
Written by: AngeDeLumiere

....with bad facts that arent even all true.


I believe that's why it's called a joke.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Ange_GSC
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Ange_GSC

HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
Location: Bay Area, California, USA

Total posts: 128
Posted:The Complete Military History of France



It was funny at first, but I think some of what was written there just went too far and was in bad taste, Especially what was written under WW1 and War on Terrorism. Those are really below the belt.




EDITED_BY: AngeDeLumiere (1139835747)


missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"

^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:It gave a few laughs and that was what it was there for. It's so ridiculously overblown that noone would ever take it seriously. Have a chuckle and then move on. I'm sure the French can survive a little joke on their expense.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Ange_GSC
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Ange_GSC

HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
Location: Bay Area, California, USA

Total posts: 128
Posted:*grumbles under breath* I guess so.......

on another note though, heres a nice little documentary done on google thats pretty interesting and covers most of the stuff in this thread.

Google, the inside story


missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"

^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^

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Prometheus


Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia

Total posts: 459
Posted:Before y'all start praising Google's definace of Big Government, consider this:

"Google today announced a new "feature" of its Google Desktop software that greatly increases the risk to consumer privacy. If a consumer chooses to use it, the new "Search Across Computers" feature will store copies of the user's Word documents, PDFs, spreadsheets and other text-based documents on Google's own servers, to enable searching from any one of the user's computers. EFF urges consumers not to use this feature, because it will make their personal data more vulnerable to subpoenas from the government and possibly private litigants, while providing a convenient one-stop-shop for hackers who've obtained a user's Google password.

"Coming on the heels of serious consumer concern about government snooping into Google's search logs, it's shocking that Google expects its users to now trust it with the contents of their personal computers," said EFF Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston. "If you use the Search Across Computers feature and don't configure Google Desktop very carefullyand most people won'tGoogle will have copies of your tax returns, love letters, business records, financial and medical files, and whatever other text-based documents the Desktop software can index. The government could then demand these personal files with only a subpoena rather than the search warrant it would need to seize the same things from your home or business, and in many cases you wouldn't even be notified in time to challenge it. Other litigantsyour spouse, your business partners or rivals, whoevercould also try to cut out the middleman (you) and subpoena Google for your files."


The Rest Of The Story


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Ange_GSC
GOLD Member since Aug 2005

Ange_GSC

HOP's glowstick ambassador!!
Location: Bay Area, California, USA

Total posts: 128
Posted:But you have you own choice whether or not you want to use it, its your own choice. The people who do use it will be the ones who dont care about the risk and arent paranoid of the government anyway.

Written by:
"Google today announced a new "feature" of its Google Desktop software that greatly increases the risk to consumer privacy. If a consumer chooses to use it, the new "Search Across Computers" feature will store copies of the user's Word documents, PDFs, spreadsheets and other text-based documents on Google's own servers, to enable searching from any one of the user's computers. EFF urges consumers not to use this feature, because it will make their personal data more vulnerable to subpoenas from the government and possibly private litigants, while providing a convenient one-stop-shop for hackers who've obtained a user's Google password."



missegyptology: "I just remember beingall off balance and unicycling really fast down to campus and the arabic was all blurred on the page"

^When Linz pulls an all nighter before Arabic class^

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Maybe google's planing to take over the world wink tongue

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Long live emperor google if they are. biggrin

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Spiderbaby
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

Spiderbaby

c",
Location: , Ireland

Total posts: 199
Posted:type "george bush" into a google image search and look at the second picture that comes up

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newgabe
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

newgabe

what goes around comes around. unless you're into stalls.
Location: Bali, Australia

Total posts: 4030
Posted:And for those of you who are over Google cos of the China issue, or any other reason...I say it again... try Clusty. I've been using it for a while now and the way it categorises results is really fine.

.....Can't juggle balls but I sure as hell can juggle details....

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:their privacy policy doesn't seem to be that different to google's gabe...



from the clusty website:



"When you use Vivsimo Web Search Services, our server logs may include information such as your web request, Internet Protocol (IP) address, browser type, browser language, the date and time of your request and cookies. We use such information to process your inquiries, respond to your requests, and improve the Vivsimo Web Search Services. We may also share the non-personally identifiable information with our business partners or clients so that they may improve their services, which may be made available to you through Vivsimo Web Search Services."



...



"We respond to subpoenas, court orders, or legal process, or to establish or exercise our legal rights or defend against legal claims.



We believe it is necessary to share information in order to investigate, prevent, or take action regarding illegal activities, suspected fraud, situations involving potential threats to the physical safety of any person, violations of Vivsimo's terms of use, or as otherwise required by law. When you click on an advertising or revenue-generating search result, Vivsimo Web Search Services are contacted, do record information, and such information may be shared with affiliated sites."





the china problem was indeed a tricky one for google but i think i agree with the decision they came to.



i think if they had said no, it would have led to a much faster occurring major fragmentation of the internet.





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Written by: coleman


...

"We respond to subpoenas, court orders, or legal process, or to establish or exercise our legal rights or defend against legal claims.




Which, imo, is, erm, a prossible problem. Not that the china thing is good, but my verdicts still out. And I'm still glad they're fighting at home. Look, they're fighting at home *first.*

Something that most of the US misses....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Page: 12

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