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Forums > Social Chat > How related is poi to juggling?

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Paddy


back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

Total posts: 884
Posted:Small dilemma I'm having...

I attend a university that currently lacks a poi club. I'd like to start one for next year. Problem is, we already have a juggling club. I don't know if it would be best to join them or start a new club, as I'd like to do.

I know a lot of people categorize poi, staff etc, with juggling under "performance arts." I don't know about that. To me, the dancy aspects of poi and staff differentiate them from juggling, contact juggling, stiltwalking, etc.

I don't want to start a poi club if the majority of people don't make the same distinction that I do, lest my doing so be viewed as elitist and exclusive.

- So what shall I do? Make a club or join the jugglers? To you, how related is poi to juggling?

And if I make the club, what can I call it so that it includes poiers, staffers, fire-nunchuckers, etc, but doesn't steal any juggler-types away from their club? I was thinking "Fire Arts Club", but I don't want to emphasize fire over learning the skills (I don't see fire as an integral element of poi). And I can't think of anything else.

Help? Pweese?


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I think that Poi isnt part of juggling,it isnt juggling.Its body,mind,dance... creative art.You could name it "Poi,staff and meteor club" and then describe each toys and their history...or associate it with martial arts.

POI THEO(R)IST

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Jo


Jo

member
Location: Sheffield, England

Total posts: 517
Posted:Juggling is defined by:

'The manipulation of one or more inanimate objects'

therefore poi is a kind of juggling. However, I would go with richees advice because some jugglers (not many, but a few) are very anal about poi. They'll give you grief because it's 'easy' and takes up too much space.

penises.

Anyone remember LAP? That was pretty entertaining...

Jo.


Educate yourself in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Jello


ambiguous
Location: Mpls, MN, USA

Total posts: 646
Posted:Currently at my university I attend the juggling club, it's a fun group of good people who let me stick around even though I can't juggle worth shit. I think some girls were going to start a poi group, they asked if I'd join and I said sure, why not. I'd still do the juggling club as well, I like the group. But yeah, as nice as the girls seemed, apparantly they're not the type to actually get things done. So no poi group, which I'm fine with.

About jugglers attitudes towards poi, yeah, some do have a lower view of it. When I first joined one of the jugglers thought it was cool but said it was too easy to pick up. But as I've progressed into new moves he previously hadn't seen he's kind of changed his view. I think it's because even the basic poi moves look flashy that people get the idea that it's easy to be good at. Which of course, as we know, isn't true. Just because somebody knows a few moves and can do them cleanly does not really make them good at poi. Poi, like juggling, takes time and practice to really develop.


_________________________________
Fuzzy Dice.......................................

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:quote:...basic poi moves look flashy that people get the idea that it's easy to be good at. Which of course, as we know, isn't true.

POI THEO(R)IST

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:Juggling is manipulation by definition and therefore poi should be part of juggling as you are manipulating two objects.

Paddy, have you seen circus routines that make dance and flow a part of juggling? They do exist and most jugglers (pros) can pick up poi and make you think they have done it for years.

These diciplines are all linked under manipulation... and who is to say you cant juggle poi.

Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:um... one last thing, paddy you CAN juggle pretty much anything with fire... this is where a lot of fire arts originate from...

I think it would be rude to exclude jugglers from your fun although they have their own club... Just because some jugglers alienate some poiers and staffers doesnt mean that you need to do the same to them...

At the end of the day the point is to play regardless of what you find in your hands.

Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Jello


ambiguous
Location: Mpls, MN, USA

Total posts: 646
Posted:hehe, if jugglers can pick up poi easily, why the hell can't I juggle??

*HUGS* to jugglers!


_________________________________
Fuzzy Dice.......................................

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:Because you are not yet a juggla!

You will know what I mean in future...

Now go Jello play to your hearts content.

Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Paddy


back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

Total posts: 884
Posted:quote:Originally posted by dromepixie:
you CAN juggle pretty much anything with fire...I realized that right after I posted actually. Silly me.

I like the whole manipulation idea. That really is the central idea, I guess, that I was looking for...the thing that ties all the art forms together. Still, I can't shake the idea that poi is more about dancing and moving while juggling is primarily about tricks and entertainment. Maybe it's where I'm coming from...most of the jugglers I've seen have been children's entertainers, or part of a circus. Does anyone else feel the same?

I've never seen jugglers that dance as they juggle, but I think that would throw the my ideas of poi and juggling for a loop...help me break out of the "circus" mentality.

I wouldn't exclude *anyone* by *any* means, but given that jugglers have their own club, I wouldn't really need to. The conflict is that jugglers meet during the day whereas our informal club meets at sundown, so we can play for a few hours and then do fire if we like.


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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:That sounds great Paddy! Why dont you then start your club about fire arts not nessecarily about poi. I am sure lots of cool people would join! That way you lot can do fire and everyone feels welcome.

About the whole juggler thing... I think its also a massive metaphor for real life. When you juggle you try to keep everything in balance. Sometimes that fails slightly and you drop the ball. Sometimes its really good to drop the ball and you can pick it up and just continue. sometimes you dont. Sometimes you can be juggling well but two fall and one goes under the couch. Somedays you cant be bothered to find it. A couple of days later you hit the ball with your feet and suddenly it appears again so you decide to pick up the other parts of your juggle and begin a new session.

The juggling/manipulation I speak of can also serve as a metaphor for inner sanctuary nto because of what we do but how we do it in the position of our thoughts...

Dont know if this is confusing,
Love and hugs,
Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Paddy


back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

Total posts: 884
Posted:I think I get what you're saying...never thought of juggling as a metaphor for life but I must say, it does work rather well.

Think I will use that if it ever comes up, if I may Ms. dromepixie!


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:
Non-Https Image Link


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:Keep meditating Mike and you will see it too.

Answers are discovered NOT given
It will one day dawn on you as it has many that I have met and myself included. One thing though once you 'see' it you mustnt think you have seen it all because further breakthroughs come in time. No jedi is most powerful!

Once again Mike if its something u wanna chat about then pm or mail me.

Love and hugs to all,
Drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Actually, I just wanted to use that graphic.

-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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dromepixie


dromepixie

veteran
Location: Florida

Total posts: 1463
Posted:I wondered why you posted that

Anyways cool graphics!

drome


JUGGLEwithyourmind!

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FirePoi-boy


member
Location: Bantry, Ireland

Total posts: 71
Posted:just join the jugglers. its all performance arts. anyway one big group will be better for sharing ideas and learning new toys. if you join them you'll probably learn or get good at juggling and be able to teach others poi. plus that club is already started and prolly has loads of members. join it join it join it join it

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:OMG Jo, I haven't thought about the LAP in ages! How funny they were, but man what a controversy!

Anyway, the most amazing jugglers I have ever seen do dance with their balls . They combine contact with compex juggling and some form of fluid dance which in incredible. ANd I have seen alot of poi spinners who are not poi dancers. It is a two way street.
I see all these types of performance arts to be very similar, the only differentation is people's attitudes towards it.
I suggest you talk with the juggling club first. If they are the type that would accept poi, they might take offense that you didn't speak with them and instead created what might be viewed of as a "competing club". If they don't welcome poi, then look to start your own club.

I truly don't think starting a fire arts club is a good idea. A) I think you will be hard pressed to get the support of the Uni for is, concidering it will be on their insurance. B) You will get alot of wankers who think they can just show up and light up. C) It really sounds like an excuse to play with fire instead of something constructive, such as poi/juggling-esque skills (which can be plugged as stress reducing and as enhancing hand-eye coordination).

I bet if you approach the juggling club you will be in a better place to make this decision, and if they do not feel poi is juggling then perhaps when you start your club you can have mixer functions to educate each other!

Good Luck


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Paddy


back from the dead...sort of
Location: 4341'N 7938'W

Total posts: 884
Posted:I guess joining the jugglers would be a good idea. I can't imagine they won't welcome more members.

The only concern I have is meetings, I guess. Firstly I'd like to make sure they meet outdoors while the weather allows it, as I think it's a much nicer thing to do than meet inside. Also, I'd want to make sure they'd allow us to bring music, because I think spinning to a beat is much more satisfying and makes prcaticing/performing much more fun. And lastly I'd want to see what their indoor venue is for the winter, as I have 10-12 spinners (plus any others that might want to join) that would be coming along and I don't want to hog all the room. It's tough to book any decent spaces around here. Being two different entities would make it much easier to justify two bookings per week.

If everything works out I'll join them, but if other factors conflict I think I'll start the poi club...not out of any malicious (sp?) intent but just out of necessity. And if I do I'll make sure we have a healthy alliance so that members from each can attend the other meeting if they can't make their own, to promote awareness and understanding of other manipulation arts, and so on.

Thank you for your thoughts everyone!

EDIT______

Also, I just want to add that I really see juggling and poi as far more related than I did before. The idea of "manipulations of objects" is perfectly all-encompassing, and I really like it. Thanks for your philsophies on the matter, it has really opened my eyes.

[ 12. December 2002, 09:51: Message edited by: Paddy ]


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Charles
BRONZE Member since Jun 2001

Charles

Corporate Circus Arts Entertainer
Location: Auckland

Total posts: 3989
Posted:I got to two main juggling clubs each week.

One has more poiers than jugglers, the other is a little more traditional.

Both welcome anyone manipulating any sort of object. Regardless of whether you are good or not.

One night, at the traditional group, we spent the whole time flinging cards across the hall...


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jim bombadil


member
Location: bristol

Total posts: 142
Posted:hello just flicking through older threads and I thought I could maybe add something here. I used to love the new drome juggling nights down in elephant and castle, loads of space, loads of different diciplines and most importantly for me wicked music. These nights had the vibe of the poi/staf free party crew although many people practiced different arts. This differs from the usual evening juggling club which I often find alot less fun which centre around often a "hardercore" maybe group of club jugglers in a town hall or whatever practicing their passing and trading tricks and what have you. I would say it is the vibe of groups like the guys at the new drome which has added to the recent popularity of these arts and would rekon that maybe this is what you should try and capture in your group if the jugglers arn't doing it allready. If you can get a bigish hall and are able to chuck a soundsystem in there I would rekon this would be your best bet practically although outside would obviously be much better romantically (and of course with fire) maybe you could manage both?

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:I have always been exceedingly bad at juggling, but the more I see of contact juggling the more I want to learn.

Anyone know any poi-tolerant juggling/circus clubs in Sydney?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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