Forums > Social Discussion > Alarming changes in weather
Login/Join to ParticipateSILVER Member
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
comfortably numb
2,676 posts
Location: The countryside, Australia
Posted:
I'm beginning to grow slightly concerned about what is happening to our world as far as weather/natural disasters/climate goes.
Starting with something not as severe:
This summer has been the hottest ever, it's alarmingly hot here. I no longer think 'what a lovely day', I'm finding it hard to cope with the heat. The other week it reached 45 degrees celcius here, other places in the state have gotten as high as 47. Generally the weather here is high 30s, but then you get the times when it gets in the 40s which is horrible, this 40+ degree weather is starting to come more often.
Is anyone else concerned about this?! With all this heat brings droughts, which means severe water restrictions and farmers losing money, animals dieing...the list goes on.
Then we move on to the more severe stuff:
In the last year or so, the world has suffered 3 (4?) hurricanes, we've had tsuami's and parts of Western Australia at the moment are suffering a cylone which is predicted to get up to category 4. I remember there was an earthquake recently somewhere (I can't remember where exactly unfortunately) Oh and not to mention the bushfires which happen here all the time...
I don't know much about this kind of stuff. Does anyone have any facts/theories about why this is happening? I just don't understand it, but all I know is that I'm a bit worried about what is going to happen next...
I'm beginning to grow slightly concerned about what is happening to our world as far as weather/natural disasters/climate goes.
Starting with something not as severe:
This summer has been the hottest ever, it's alarmingly hot here. I no longer think 'what a lovely day', I'm finding it hard to cope with the heat. The other week it reached 45 degrees celcius here, other places in the state have gotten as high as 47. Generally the weather here is high 30s, but then you get the times when it gets in the 40s which is horrible, this 40+ degree weather is starting to come more often.
Is anyone else concerned about this?! With all this heat brings droughts, which means severe water restrictions and farmers losing money, animals dieing...the list goes on.
Then we move on to the more severe stuff:
In the last year or so, the world has suffered 3 (4?) hurricanes, we've had tsuami's and parts of Western Australia at the moment are suffering a cylone which is predicted to get up to category 4. I remember there was an earthquake recently somewhere (I can't remember where exactly unfortunately) Oh and not to mention the bushfires which happen here all the time...
I don't know much about this kind of stuff. Does anyone have any facts/theories about why this is happening? I just don't understand it, but all I know is that I'm a bit worried about what is going to happen next...
.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
by your own definition "but not always after their occurrence is no longer in scientific dispute, " so i can be using theory in the right way
and i was really using it relative to the second part of your quotation-the why and is it unusual or part of recurring climate patterns that have wreaked havoc on the natural world before humans were really a factor-see caveman reference in earlier post-you know, since we were talking about the weather
Written by: jeff(fake)Written by: Wikipedia
Theories are typically ways of explaining why things happen, often, but not always after their occurrence is no longer in scientific dispute. For example, "global warming" refers to the observation that worldwide temperatures seem to be increasing. The "theory of global warming" refers instead to scientific work that attempts to explain how and why this could be happening.
The difference to the opacity of CO2 and methane is undeniable. Any increase will lead to increasing mean global tempertures.
by your own definition "but not always after their occurrence is no longer in scientific dispute, " so i can be using theory in the right way
and i was really using it relative to the second part of your quotation-the why and is it unusual or part of recurring climate patterns that have wreaked havoc on the natural world before humans were really a factor-see caveman reference in earlier post-you know, since we were talking about the weather
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
The scientific consensus amonst climate scientist is very clear. There is a warming of the Earth and it is almost entirely due to man made causes. The 'dispute' is entirely politically driven.
Written by: faithinfireNo you weren't. You were using theory to mean an unsubstatiated guess.
by your own definition "but not always after their occurrence is no longer in scientific dispute, " so i can be using theory in the right way
Written by: faithinfire
and i was really using it relative to the second part of your quotation-the why and is it unusual or part of recurring climate patterns that have wreaked havoc on the natural world before humans were really a factor-see caveman reference in earlier post-you know, since we were talking about the weather
The scientific consensus amonst climate scientist is very clear. There is a warming of the Earth and it is almost entirely due to man made causes. The 'dispute' is entirely politically driven.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
ok let's resort to childish behavior-nuhuhh i was not...i know perfectly well how to use theory in the proper scientific sense...just because i disagree with you doesn't mean that i do not know how to verbalize in the proper sense
and no that is not the climate scientists consensus, it still is a debate and my profs and grad friends still argue about it, as has been mentioned natural releases of methane and volcanic gases and such other events greatly affect the climate more than we do-that you can find in any science book from grammar school on
ok let's resort to childish behavior-nuhuhh i was not...i know perfectly well how to use theory in the proper scientific sense...just because i disagree with you doesn't mean that i do not know how to verbalize in the proper sense
and no that is not the climate scientists consensus, it still is a debate and my profs and grad friends still argue about it, as has been mentioned natural releases of methane and volcanic gases and such other events greatly affect the climate more than we do-that you can find in any science book from grammar school on
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
Average annual summer time temperatures are increasing slowly and surely.
CO2 and methane levels have been increasing very quickly over the years that records have been held for.
Extreme weather has become more commonplace.
Droughts and flash floods are on the increase (see point above).
Ice Caps are melting at a measurable rate.
Now the point is, that yes these things have happened before, but on a far longer time scale. There is no evidence at all that there has ever been such drastic climate change like this before. The only climate changes that there is evidence for has taken place over far longer (hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands not tens of years) time periods.
So, where's your counter proof?
Average annual summer time temperatures are increasing slowly and surely.
CO2 and methane levels have been increasing very quickly over the years that records have been held for.
Extreme weather has become more commonplace.
Droughts and flash floods are on the increase (see point above).
Ice Caps are melting at a measurable rate.
Now the point is, that yes these things have happened before, but on a far longer time scale. There is no evidence at all that there has ever been such drastic climate change like this before. The only climate changes that there is evidence for has taken place over far longer (hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands not tens of years) time periods.
So, where's your counter proof?
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
They weren't jabs... I honestly don't know what the published agenda of the Republican party is, and I doubt you know the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats... I was just making the point that I am not aware of any government that is currently making any serious issue to prevent climate change.
I was just clarifying, not insulting
They weren't jabs... I honestly don't know what the published agenda of the Republican party is, and I doubt you know the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats... I was just making the point that I am not aware of any government that is currently making any serious issue to prevent climate change.
I was just clarifying, not insulting
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
as for the changes after all my classes i threw out the paperwork and gave back my books...sorry have no proof other than what i was taught-personally i would rather be talking about the changes in weather than the merits of global warming
you are right i don't really know anything about the actual published agendas of any political group-i just go by voting records and beliefs of the individual running for office, i find it to be a better gauge than political affiliation
wohoo snow storm tomorrow...
:i wonder what it would look like spinning in a storm
as for the changes after all my classes i threw out the paperwork and gave back my books...sorry have no proof other than what i was taught-personally i would rather be talking about the changes in weather than the merits of global warming
Written by: Sethis
They weren't jabs... I honestly don't know what the published agenda of the Republican party is, and I doubt you know the manifesto of the Liberal Democrats... I was just making the point that I am not aware of any government that is currently making any serious issue to prevent climate change.
I was just clarifying, not insulting
you are right i don't really know anything about the actual published agendas of any political group-i just go by voting records and beliefs of the individual running for office, i find it to be a better gauge than political affiliationwohoo snow storm tomorrow...
:i wonder what it would look like spinning in a storm Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
You know, the whole thing reminds me of the HIV/AIDS debate. At first everyone was happy to have an explanation for AIDS. And then some people decided that just because there's a dominant paradigm, they'd try to subvert it.
It seems that way with global warming. We know that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. We know that the carbon that we are pulling out of the ground has not been in the biosphere for millions of years. We know that we are taking this carbon and belching it into the air while simultaneously destroying the biosphere that could help to scrub it out of the air and put it back into biomass.
To cheerfully carry on and pretend that this has no effect on global climate, especially when over the last few decades significant changes in long-established weather patterns have been observed, is tantamount to claiming that the earth is flat, that evolution doesn't happen, or that HIV and AIDS are unlrelated. Just because a theory can't explain EVERYTHING doesn't mean that it's no good.
You know, the whole thing reminds me of the HIV/AIDS debate. At first everyone was happy to have an explanation for AIDS. And then some people decided that just because there's a dominant paradigm, they'd try to subvert it.
It seems that way with global warming. We know that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. We know that the carbon that we are pulling out of the ground has not been in the biosphere for millions of years. We know that we are taking this carbon and belching it into the air while simultaneously destroying the biosphere that could help to scrub it out of the air and put it back into biomass.
To cheerfully carry on and pretend that this has no effect on global climate, especially when over the last few decades significant changes in long-established weather patterns have been observed, is tantamount to claiming that the earth is flat, that evolution doesn't happen, or that HIV and AIDS are unlrelated. Just because a theory can't explain EVERYTHING doesn't mean that it's no good.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
just putting out there that there are other theories out there the only one that you hear about is global warming-studying it you find there are a variety of issues
as bf said it doesn't matter once we mess things up too much the earth will just wipe us out any-was is the aztecs who said this was like the fifth or sixth world
and the world will end in 2012 anyway so what does it matter-at least according to the Mayans
just putting out there that there are other theories out there the only one that you hear about is global warming-studying it you find there are a variety of issues
as bf said it doesn't matter once we mess things up too much the earth will just wipe us out any-was is the aztecs who said this was like the fifth or sixth world
and the world will end in 2012 anyway so what does it matter-at least according to the Mayans
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
And Mayan superstition is relevent now?
Global warming is fact. The mean global temperture has raised year on year for quite some time now. The substantial increase in green house gases is also fact. Our best theories and modeling place the causation of warming squarly on humanities doorstep. Amonst competant scientists this is virtually unanimous.
Written by: faithinfire
just putting out there that there are other theories out there the only one that you hear about is global warming-studying it you find there are a variety of issues
as bf said it doesn't matter once we mess things up too much the earth will just wipe us out any-was is the aztecs who said this was like the fifth or sixth world
and the world will end in 2012 anyway so what does it matter-at least according to the Mayans
And Mayan superstition is relevent now?
Global warming is fact. The mean global temperture has raised year on year for quite some time now. The substantial increase in green house gases is also fact. Our best theories and modeling place the causation of warming squarly on humanities doorstep. Amonst competant scientists this is virtually unanimous.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
well, its nice to know i wasted so much money
and now i realize humor is not a forte of yours:D
did i mention that tis snowing finally-our winter has started and will probably continue through may-got to love wisconsin weather
it snowed 6 in just an hour west of us
and we won't get quite so much but totally getting at least 4 in in waukesha and maybe 7 or so in milwaukee cause of lake effect snow by the end of the day
the alarming part is not the snow nor the freezing rain, but the thunderstorm we are having at the same time...but it's sort of cool too
votes on weather i should go out and spin in the mini blizzard
well, its nice to know i wasted so much money
and now i realize humor is not a forte of yours:D
did i mention that tis snowing finally-our winter has started and will probably continue through may-got to love wisconsin weather
it snowed 6 in just an hour west of us
and we won't get quite so much but totally getting at least 4 in in waukesha and maybe 7 or so in milwaukee cause of lake effect snow by the end of the daythe alarming part is not the snow nor the freezing rain, but the thunderstorm we are having at the same time...but it's sort of cool too
votes on weather i should go out and spin in the mini blizzard
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Quite the contrary. I have a deeply subversive wit which creeps through to the very soul.
I trained under MCP...
Quite the contrary. I have a deeply subversive wit which creeps through to the very soul.
I trained under MCP...
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Crap a double post...
Ah well, BBC news story.
Pretty much proves me right on the topic of the scientific consensus.
Crap a double post...
Ah well, BBC news story.
Pretty much proves me right on the topic of the scientific consensus.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
*Bump*
Thought this was an interesting ad. Stop Global Warming Or Cute Little White Girls Will Die.
*Bump*
Thought this was an interesting ad. Stop Global Warming Or Cute Little White Girls Will Die.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
SILVER Member
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Has sharp edges
1,266 posts
Location: Stuck in the mire, USA
Posted:
tis good NYC
to bad the cute little white girl had to die to make it
tis good NYCto bad the cute little white girl had to die to make it
My ADD makes it so that.....Ooooo SHINY.....wanna go ride bikes....wait....where am I.....
Member
152 posts
Location: London, england
152 posts
Location: London, england
Posted:
I saw a really scary programme the other day. It started off describing El Nino, a natural weather cycle affecting a lot of our planet. The programme then went on to describe how, if the temerature of our world carries on rising as it is, at some point (i cannot remember the time scale i will research though and correct myself) this will interfere with the frequency of El Nino, until the point it is almost a continuos thing. No doubt this will have untold damage on key El Nino areas, but theres more - the El Nino devestation will carry on inland, the sea temperature will rise killing the plankton (sp?) which helps clean our air, the amazon rainforest (whatever is left of it after logging!) will flood, and bam! Watch life on earth die from there, the CO2 in the air wil increase so quickly, the temperature will too, life will perish, there will be droughs on the other side of the world, famile will increase, plants wil die etc etc
the programme didnt say what would happen in mega long term, like will the earth eventually set on fire and burn, i am interested to hear though. But yeah I just found this programme really scary.
I saw a really scary programme the other day. It started off describing El Nino, a natural weather cycle affecting a lot of our planet. The programme then went on to describe how, if the temerature of our world carries on rising as it is, at some point (i cannot remember the time scale i will research though and correct myself) this will interfere with the frequency of El Nino, until the point it is almost a continuos thing. No doubt this will have untold damage on key El Nino areas, but theres more - the El Nino devestation will carry on inland, the sea temperature will rise killing the plankton (sp?) which helps clean our air, the amazon rainforest (whatever is left of it after logging!) will flood, and bam! Watch life on earth die from there, the CO2 in the air wil increase so quickly, the temperature will too, life will perish, there will be droughs on the other side of the world, famile will increase, plants wil die etc etc
the programme didnt say what would happen in mega long term, like will the earth eventually set on fire and burn, i am interested to hear though. But yeah I just found this programme really scary.
Kiss me now, You're beatiful, For these days are truly the last.
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
To me, the solution to all this crazy weather is simple. We have to find the Cobra temple and destroy the Weather Dominator before he uses it against a more strategic target.
Another interesting observation. Notice how Dubya silences a well-respected scientist, but continues to take his scientific lead from Michael Crichton?
To me, the solution to all this crazy weather is simple. We have to find the Cobra temple and destroy the Weather Dominator before he uses it against a more strategic target.
Another interesting observation. Notice how Dubya silences a well-respected scientist, but continues to take his scientific lead from Michael Crichton?
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
SILVER Member
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Pooh-Bah
1,848 posts
Location: Adelaide, SA, Australia
Posted:
I have nothing useful to add to this debate, i'm not a scientist, but i'm glad i've read this... i'm still panicking but at least i don't feel as guilty about driving my car every where as apparently we're past the point of no return (i don't remember which of you said that but i immediately felt the truth in it)
back to Steph's original post though... I have the same concerns... i first noticed the climate change the year before last when i spotted daffodills flowering in june, since then i've noticed alot of plants doing things at odd times of year in my mother's garden.
i've been noticing alot of "strange bugs" lately too... all sorts of insects i've never seen before, or have only seen rarely have been creeping me out turning up in my bathroom of late...
and not so much hotter summers, but completely random ones... i remember a time when you could gaurentee 30 to 50 degree heat from late november to early march, non stop... the last four summers here have had a higer adverage temp, but we've been having weeks on end of 15-25 degree days with rain and crap, and then bam! one day it'll be 40 degrees and stay that way or hotter for a week or so and then it'll storm and go back to it's 15 degrees... it's ridiculous. i just want a long hot summer and a winter full of rain and hail. back to normal.
I have nothing useful to add to this debate, i'm not a scientist, but i'm glad i've read this... i'm still panicking but at least i don't feel as guilty about driving my car every where as apparently we're past the point of no return (i don't remember which of you said that but i immediately felt the truth in it)
back to Steph's original post though... I have the same concerns... i first noticed the climate change the year before last when i spotted daffodills flowering in june, since then i've noticed alot of plants doing things at odd times of year in my mother's garden.
i've been noticing alot of "strange bugs" lately too... all sorts of insects i've never seen before, or have only seen rarely have been creeping me out turning up in my bathroom of late...
and not so much hotter summers, but completely random ones... i remember a time when you could gaurentee 30 to 50 degree heat from late november to early march, non stop... the last four summers here have had a higer adverage temp, but we've been having weeks on end of 15-25 degree days with rain and crap, and then bam! one day it'll be 40 degrees and stay that way or hotter for a week or so and then it'll storm and go back to it's 15 degrees... it's ridiculous. i just want a long hot summer and a winter full of rain and hail. back to normal.
"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie
"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
So, this past summer was one of the hottest for us in June. We had freaky flooding and even tornadoes in places where we don't get them.
Then the warm continued and we (sadly) had a green Christmas (not normal here). Well, except for Buffalo which was shut down in October for a week for a *very* rare blizzard.
And now, Cold Miser ended up being ticked at Heat Miser and is getting even. A few towns away has been dumped with 11 feet of snow in 7 days. People are going out of their 2nd floor windows because when they open the front door it's a wall of snow.
Here we are hit, but not that bad. We have had a bunch of single digit days with -F wind chills and uncommonly high winds.
Flooding during the thaw is a real threat.
I also know there were unseasonal tornadoes and storms that hit Florida a couple weeks ago. It was not pretty.
And it made me curious, since I haven't seen alot concerning weather in other places, what's it like where you are? Is it freaky?
So, this past summer was one of the hottest for us in June. We had freaky flooding and even tornadoes in places where we don't get them.
Then the warm continued and we (sadly) had a green Christmas (not normal here). Well, except for Buffalo which was shut down in October for a week for a *very* rare blizzard.
And now, Cold Miser ended up being ticked at Heat Miser and is getting even. A few towns away has been dumped with 11 feet of snow in 7 days. People are going out of their 2nd floor windows because when they open the front door it's a wall of snow.
Here we are hit, but not that bad. We have had a bunch of single digit days with -F wind chills and uncommonly high winds.
Flooding during the thaw is a real threat.
I also know there were unseasonal tornadoes and storms that hit Florida a couple weeks ago. It was not pretty.
And it made me curious, since I haven't seen alot concerning weather in other places, what's it like where you are? Is it freaky?
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
old hand
898 posts
Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight
898 posts
Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight
Posted:
In the UK, January has been ridiculously warm and February looks to be the same except for a cold spell last week and a lot of snow everywhere except in Bristol.
In the UK, January has been ridiculously warm and February looks to be the same except for a cold spell last week and a lot of snow everywhere except in Bristol.
Ask a question and be a fool for a minute...don't ask and be a fool your whole life.
BRONZE Member
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
wandering thru the woods of WI
3,556 posts
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Posted:
jan was warm but feb is being one of the coldest on record here...
i was watching a pbs thing and the climatologist said that he believed in global warming but that the hurricanes being more prevalent than in the last 40yrs was misleading because they are not more prevelant in the past 60...the 1950's i guess were really bad hurricane-wise
i just thought that was interesting
jan was warm but feb is being one of the coldest on record here...
i was watching a pbs thing and the climatologist said that he believed in global warming but that the hurricanes being more prevalent than in the last 40yrs was misleading because they are not more prevelant in the past 60...the 1950's i guess were really bad hurricane-wise
i just thought that was interesting
Faith
Nay, whatever comes one hour was sunlit and the most high gods may not make boast of any better thing than to have watched that hour as it passed
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
When I was a kid in central Oregon, -10F in winter was not unusual. A foot or more of snow was common. In this same region, when my grandfather was a kid, we were known to get 48" in 24 hours, and several feet of snow was a standard winter. The last time we had any serious snow was about 15 years ago... since then, nothing over 8", if it snows at all, and temperatures rarely dip below 20F. This is a trend, and it is FRIGHTENING. Meanwhile, next door in the valley they're having insane summer temperatures, and unheard of snow in the winter.
To really notice changes in the environment you have to live in 1 area for a long time. The neighbors had no idea the tree they cut down on the corner was a site used by probably hundreds of thousands of migrating ladybugs. They have no idea that the gray squirrels they're feeding in the yard are non-native invaders that decimate native squirrel and songbird populations-- and that the squirrels are responsible for damaging the pine trees that drip pitch on cars in the driveway... so they feed the cute squirrels, and cut the trees down. They have no idea that in late July, the 10-stripe Junebug has been appearing less and less in its seasonal flights (not that it's endangered, it's a pest in some other regions, but still, it's the change they don't see). They don't know it's been years since I've seen any snakes near by parents' house. They don't realize that the little brown city sparrows and pigeons that infest every city center are basically flying mice and rats, or that starlings are a plague-- they don't know to miss the chickadees, nuthatches, finches, grosbeaks, thrushes, flickers, herons, swallows, and so on that are supposed to be here.
They don't know that it is NOT supposed to be over 100 degrees in the summer here. They don't know that the goddamn GLACIER on Mt Bachelor is MUCH SMALLER THAN IT USED TO BE. All I have to do is LOOK, and my stomach tries to crawl into my ribcage, because it's WRONG. Sure, glaciers come and go-- but this is too much, too fast. All of it is too fast. The sheer SCALE of the changes here are shocking-- have you ever been in a plane, and seen just how massive the smog cloud over a big city is? Our atmosphere is not all that thick! There are limits, and we're pushing them, you don't have to be a scientist to see that, it's common sense!
The ones moving in from heavily populated areas such as LA, too often have no clue that it's supposed to be NORMAL to have giant old-growth trees in your yard. They can't comprehend the age, the importance. They flatten them and put in dinky deciduous decorative things that would die in weeks without irrigation. They have no idea that being able to drive somewhere in less than an hour is also NORMAL, and that heavy traffic is not something we should have to live with. They also have no concept of getting the hell out of the car and WALKING for a distance of more than 100 feet-- hell, they look at me funny when I suggest getting out of the car long enough to actually explore a city, as if there might be something interesting there, you know, something BESIDES starbucks and walmart. They have no idea what it's like to look down a canyon that used to be near wilderness when they were a kid, and see million-dollar condominiums and mansions lining the rim on both sides, and a giant bridge slashed across the middle. They don't know what it's like to see a restaurant, store, or coffee shop whose owners' parents knew your parents, be replaced by a walmart or starbucks. In the valley they see green hills, totally clueless that most of that green is a homogenized crop of young planted trees in clearcuts where healthy old-growth mixed conifer forest once stood-- where my mother, a botanist, sees a blasted wasteland. They've never been used to sleeping somewhere that it's QUIET. For crying the hell out loud, they don't even know what DARKNESS looks like, coming from a place where the smog is so thick that at night the air itself glows a hellish ORANGE from the miles of city in all directions, and you can only ever see maybe 3 or 4 'stars' (planets mostly).
Only people who have grown up in this kind of ignorance can believe for one second that something awful isn't already happening. It's not their fault, but they NEED to quit bitching with such careless contempt and get a clue.
When I was a kid in central Oregon, -10F in winter was not unusual. A foot or more of snow was common. In this same region, when my grandfather was a kid, we were known to get 48" in 24 hours, and several feet of snow was a standard winter. The last time we had any serious snow was about 15 years ago... since then, nothing over 8", if it snows at all, and temperatures rarely dip below 20F. This is a trend, and it is FRIGHTENING. Meanwhile, next door in the valley they're having insane summer temperatures, and unheard of snow in the winter.
To really notice changes in the environment you have to live in 1 area for a long time. The neighbors had no idea the tree they cut down on the corner was a site used by probably hundreds of thousands of migrating ladybugs. They have no idea that the gray squirrels they're feeding in the yard are non-native invaders that decimate native squirrel and songbird populations-- and that the squirrels are responsible for damaging the pine trees that drip pitch on cars in the driveway... so they feed the cute squirrels, and cut the trees down. They have no idea that in late July, the 10-stripe Junebug has been appearing less and less in its seasonal flights (not that it's endangered, it's a pest in some other regions, but still, it's the change they don't see). They don't know it's been years since I've seen any snakes near by parents' house. They don't realize that the little brown city sparrows and pigeons that infest every city center are basically flying mice and rats, or that starlings are a plague-- they don't know to miss the chickadees, nuthatches, finches, grosbeaks, thrushes, flickers, herons, swallows, and so on that are supposed to be here.
They don't know that it is NOT supposed to be over 100 degrees in the summer here. They don't know that the goddamn GLACIER on Mt Bachelor is MUCH SMALLER THAN IT USED TO BE. All I have to do is LOOK, and my stomach tries to crawl into my ribcage, because it's WRONG. Sure, glaciers come and go-- but this is too much, too fast. All of it is too fast. The sheer SCALE of the changes here are shocking-- have you ever been in a plane, and seen just how massive the smog cloud over a big city is? Our atmosphere is not all that thick! There are limits, and we're pushing them, you don't have to be a scientist to see that, it's common sense!
The ones moving in from heavily populated areas such as LA, too often have no clue that it's supposed to be NORMAL to have giant old-growth trees in your yard. They can't comprehend the age, the importance. They flatten them and put in dinky deciduous decorative things that would die in weeks without irrigation. They have no idea that being able to drive somewhere in less than an hour is also NORMAL, and that heavy traffic is not something we should have to live with. They also have no concept of getting the hell out of the car and WALKING for a distance of more than 100 feet-- hell, they look at me funny when I suggest getting out of the car long enough to actually explore a city, as if there might be something interesting there, you know, something BESIDES starbucks and walmart. They have no idea what it's like to look down a canyon that used to be near wilderness when they were a kid, and see million-dollar condominiums and mansions lining the rim on both sides, and a giant bridge slashed across the middle. They don't know what it's like to see a restaurant, store, or coffee shop whose owners' parents knew your parents, be replaced by a walmart or starbucks. In the valley they see green hills, totally clueless that most of that green is a homogenized crop of young planted trees in clearcuts where healthy old-growth mixed conifer forest once stood-- where my mother, a botanist, sees a blasted wasteland. They've never been used to sleeping somewhere that it's QUIET. For crying the hell out loud, they don't even know what DARKNESS looks like, coming from a place where the smog is so thick that at night the air itself glows a hellish ORANGE from the miles of city in all directions, and you can only ever see maybe 3 or 4 'stars' (planets mostly).
Only people who have grown up in this kind of ignorance can believe for one second that something awful isn't already happening. It's not their fault, but they NEED to quit bitching with such careless contempt and get a clue.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
No really, Gnarly, tell us how you really feel.
I agree.
We have this amazing and beautiful ginormous oak tree in our front yard that someone once mentioned cutting down. I flat out refuse. While the amount of leave and helicopters it drops are insane, I'm the invader.
Here we used to get tonnes and tonnes of snow in the winter, throughout the course of months. Now, we get dropped with a dozen feet of snow in one week and then it's as if winter is over. Not right. I feel sad for my son who will never know the joy I had playing in the snow for months. Now he has to bundle up and enjoy it while he can, as fast as he can.
I've been to Pheonix, which is essentially in a bowl, a few times. Everytime I get there and step off the plane my nose burns and my lungs momentarily sieze up from the damn smog. LA was only a little better the times I was there.
My absolute favorite comment from and Angelene was in a conversation where I mentioned how the fog is yellow, even from the ground level and it's weird. "No, that's the ocean coming in." She literally, a lawyer, thought that the yellow smog was a fog coming from the ocean and that it was completely natural. YELLOW FOG!!!!
Crazy!
No really, Gnarly, tell us how you really feel.
I agree.
We have this amazing and beautiful ginormous oak tree in our front yard that someone once mentioned cutting down. I flat out refuse. While the amount of leave and helicopters it drops are insane, I'm the invader.
Here we used to get tonnes and tonnes of snow in the winter, throughout the course of months. Now, we get dropped with a dozen feet of snow in one week and then it's as if winter is over. Not right. I feel sad for my son who will never know the joy I had playing in the snow for months. Now he has to bundle up and enjoy it while he can, as fast as he can.
I've been to Pheonix, which is essentially in a bowl, a few times. Everytime I get there and step off the plane my nose burns and my lungs momentarily sieze up from the damn smog. LA was only a little better the times I was there.
My absolute favorite comment from and Angelene was in a conversation where I mentioned how the fog is yellow, even from the ground level and it's weird. "No, that's the ocean coming in." She literally, a lawyer, thought that the yellow smog was a fog coming from the ocean and that it was completely natural. YELLOW FOG!!!!
Crazy!
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
*deep breath* whew!
I didn't even mean to rant, it just... there's so much, bleh.
I'm a native of the Pacific Northwest... I've got some friends in the LA area, and have spent several months down there over the last few years. Just driving in made my skin crawl. It starts to really creep me out and eat at me, and the worst part is the blank looks I get when I speak up about it. One friend's dad made a joke of it, "Oh, there she goes again, about 'Oregon' with its 'animals' and its 'invisible air'."
Cutting down trees for cleanup or convenience makes no sense to me. Buildings should be designed around them whenever possible. They make leaves and so forth, like the sky makes rain, and rocks make dirt, and we deal-- it's just a fact of life! Getting rid of it is not worth not having shade, or that heavenly color and smell-- it changes the entire personality of a place. I just don't get some people.
I stood on the shore in Venice Beach and tried to watch the sunset, only to find the entire horizon was purple-brown, and it wasn't clouds! The ocean and the sun just disappeared! It makes me want to bolt for a gas mask and run, but there's hundreds of people out on the beach around me with no clue anything is wrong... felt sortof like I'm in a sci-fi movie. Yellow fog! Beige sky! Brr!
My mom's favorite overheard remark from one of those types was a newcomer saying all amazed to a friend, "They WORK in the winter here! They wear BOOTS."
Written by: Pele
No really, Gnarly, tell us how you really feel.
*deep breath* whew!
I didn't even mean to rant, it just... there's so much, bleh.I'm a native of the Pacific Northwest... I've got some friends in the LA area, and have spent several months down there over the last few years. Just driving in made my skin crawl. It starts to really creep me out and eat at me, and the worst part is the blank looks I get when I speak up about it. One friend's dad made a joke of it, "Oh, there she goes again, about 'Oregon' with its 'animals' and its 'invisible air'."
Cutting down trees for cleanup or convenience makes no sense to me. Buildings should be designed around them whenever possible. They make leaves and so forth, like the sky makes rain, and rocks make dirt, and we deal-- it's just a fact of life! Getting rid of it is not worth not having shade, or that heavenly color and smell-- it changes the entire personality of a place. I just don't get some people.
I stood on the shore in Venice Beach and tried to watch the sunset, only to find the entire horizon was purple-brown, and it wasn't clouds! The ocean and the sun just disappeared! It makes me want to bolt for a gas mask and run, but there's hundreds of people out on the beach around me with no clue anything is wrong... felt sortof like I'm in a sci-fi movie. Yellow fog! Beige sky! Brr!
My mom's favorite overheard remark from one of those types was a newcomer saying all amazed to a friend, "They WORK in the winter here! They wear BOOTS."
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Venice Beach is where I was too. There was this amazing drum circle going on around sunset so everyone was dancing and watching the sunset. The sun disappeared waaaaaay above the horizon into that yellowy-turn pinky haze. When I mentioned it to my friend she said "Oh, that's how the sunsets on water."
Ummm...I live on a *very* large lake (can't see the other side). I see the sunrise in the east and set in the west and they *always* touch the water. Just like it did in Vancouver, and Portland and all these other coastal places. No. That isn't how it sets on water.
And the trees...need 'em. We are currently fighting our village because there is a developer that wants to level one of our green areas (across the street from our house) to put in a townhouse development that this town doesn't need as it has an excessive amount of housing open and available already. So far we've stopped over half the project. And the fight *won't* stop.
I'm afraid of the flooding it will cause actually, in addition to the noise, light and increase in traffic pollution. We bought our house because we love the peaceful quiet of the location.
Venice Beach is where I was too. There was this amazing drum circle going on around sunset so everyone was dancing and watching the sunset. The sun disappeared waaaaaay above the horizon into that yellowy-turn pinky haze. When I mentioned it to my friend she said "Oh, that's how the sunsets on water."
Ummm...I live on a *very* large lake (can't see the other side). I see the sunrise in the east and set in the west and they *always* touch the water. Just like it did in Vancouver, and Portland and all these other coastal places. No. That isn't how it sets on water.
And the trees...need 'em. We are currently fighting our village because there is a developer that wants to level one of our green areas (across the street from our house) to put in a townhouse development that this town doesn't need as it has an excessive amount of housing open and available already. So far we've stopped over half the project. And the fight *won't* stop.
I'm afraid of the flooding it will cause actually, in addition to the noise, light and increase in traffic pollution. We bought our house because we love the peaceful quiet of the location.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
member
186 posts
Location: San Francisco, USA
Posted:
Aaaugh!
Oh, good! Keep it rolling!
I just moved into a town in the valley, which is full of marvelous huge leafy trees-- there was a pedestrian-only street going right through the center of downtown, lined with 100+ year-old oaks so huge their branches covered the entire street from one edge to the other. Such trees are protected with historical ordinances... but for some reason the city decided that the reason downtown businesses are failing is because there's not enough parking, or something (bullcrap! and it's not like Walmart or the strip malls have anything to do with the economy eh?) and decided to take them down and open the street to traffic. How they got away with it, here of all places (around here even the graffiti is peace signs), I do NOT know. People chained themselves to a few of those trees, but they got taken down anyway. I still can't believe it. That street was always one of my favorite places, and now it feels so naked... and downtown is doing worse than ever. There are some people out there with some seriously backwards, twisted ideas.
Written by:
"Oh, that's how the sunsets on water."
Aaaugh!
Written by: Pele
And the trees...need 'em. We are currently fighting our village because there is a developer that wants to level one of our green areas (across the street from our house) to put in a townhouse development that this town doesn't need as it has an excessive amount of housing open and available already. So far we've stopped over half the project. And the fight *won't* stop.
Oh, good! Keep it rolling!
I just moved into a town in the valley, which is full of marvelous huge leafy trees-- there was a pedestrian-only street going right through the center of downtown, lined with 100+ year-old oaks so huge their branches covered the entire street from one edge to the other. Such trees are protected with historical ordinances... but for some reason the city decided that the reason downtown businesses are failing is because there's not enough parking, or something (bullcrap! and it's not like Walmart or the strip malls have anything to do with the economy eh?) and decided to take them down and open the street to traffic. How they got away with it, here of all places (around here even the graffiti is peace signs), I do NOT know. People chained themselves to a few of those trees, but they got taken down anyway. I still can't believe it. That street was always one of my favorite places, and now it feels so naked... and downtown is doing worse than ever. There are some people out there with some seriously backwards, twisted ideas.
"Ours is not to question The Head; it is enough to revel in the ubiquitous inanity of The Head, the unwanted proximity of The Head, the unrelenting HellPresence of The Head, indeed the very UNYIELDING IRRELEVANCE of The Head!" --Revelation X
Stargazer
6,650 posts
6,650 posts
Posted:
Drill back into the future - Arctic Ice drilling
Global warming might have a much deeper impact than predicted so far. Some scientists from IPCC predict that mankind has another 13 years to undertake serious efforts to stop global warming, otherwise the process might be irreversible.
Again: (just for info) Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
Drill back into the future - Arctic Ice drilling
Global warming might have a much deeper impact than predicted so far. Some scientists from IPCC predict that mankind has another 13 years to undertake serious efforts to stop global warming, otherwise the process might be irreversible.
Again: (just for info) Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
the best smiles are the ones you lead to 
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