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Forums > Social Discussion > Baby Ravers - or: Minimal age for festivals/ parties req.?

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FireTom


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Posted:O.K. - Hoorray! Hoorray! The youngest raver has been spotted 3 days ago on a Rave: 6 month!

COOOOOOL

Today in Nine-Bar/ Anjuna/ Goa (India), we had "the old ones" of age 6 and age 8!

Yeah guys, now I'm waiting for comments like: [cynism] "Tom, you're seen in all the worse places in the world - why are you amazed? Get out of there and turn to the sunny side of life - look for the "real" India..." [/cynism] wink Hey I really don't mean it like that hug

But please just spread the word: If you haven't been able to find a baby sitter - at least bother to get earplugs for your little ones and consider to blindfold them, as at 9am, after 8 hours solid dancing and intake of psychodelic drugs, the view of those "zombies" isn't what I'd consider "a great example"...

[cynism]But maybe that's the fairytale of the **"Michel Jacksons "Thriller"-Theme comes up*** and I should not take away the magick for those little ones... [/cynism] wink

Ah! And anyways, Tom - there's a theory that children actually choose their parent, so it serves those little buggers right!

wink smile smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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dani_babyboo
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

dani_babyboo

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Posted:Written by: FireTom

@ Dani: I'm very far from starting an argument with you wink *Some learn from mistakes in the past* footinmouth ubbangel hug And I was talking about "Raves" - you know - in Australia they call 'em "duffs"... these venues with really loud music (sometimes even psytrance and illegal in nature... wink ) dancing all night long... I was not talking about some (police-)moderated/ controlled afternoon tea-party at the River Thames-banks... wink




thats it learn lol i never back down

fact is they are still raves and the way people have been so judgemental really does my head in
now i dont agree with kids being at all night hardcore raves but i dont think many parents would ever take there kids to that sort more the sort of day raves or start of raves but leave by time it gets late


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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

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Posted:Written by: FireTom

but... what about those outdoor events with loads of UV decoration AND a soundsystem that sucks your brain into your tummy? umm

Or does that mean, on a doof they only play buddha-bar?

confused rolleyes wink



ubblol I think Dirty Den's Definition was a little narrow, for the purposes of humour of course.

Outdoor stuff is a doof. And sometimes indoor stuff is a doof. And sometimes it is a rave. confused

And sometimes it is as friendly and chilled as dani describes, and sometimes it is hardcore.

Local differences in terminology...


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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bluecat


bluecat

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Posted:ubblol

i like this thread.
it reminds me of old arguements i would have with NYC, glass, and arashi where we each said the same thing many times, then agreed that we agreed but with differences of spelling or semantics or one word or cultural viewpoint variations.

(i also like it for its actual purpose, don't worry)
biggrin
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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FireTom


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Posted:I am talking about those mom's and dad's who take their babies and little children to "trippleX-raves"... *I mean* "hardcore parties" *errm* "doofs" *hram* censored YOU know what I mean! umm

I described it previously! Mindblowing music that rip eardrums, rubberfaced trippys, shroom g:eeks:... wink

It's not as if I am trying to perpetuate the myth: all adults act responsible so kids continue to believe in that lie] - but I wouldn't like to take away the magic already at age 0,4... wink It's so nice when they look at their parents and consider them gods and allmighty - not with rubberfaces and deep dark eyes wink

wink I guess you got the point already... basically I don't think it's a very good idea, but everyone chooses for him/herself - as I stated before: don't give me that evil look if I don't stop the dancing frenzy just because you didn't get hold on a babysitter...

rave on wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Firetramp


Firetramp

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Location: Binstead, Isle of Wight

Total posts: 896
Posted:Boom has a child area and so has Dance-a-Delic and many others. That's where I'll b spending my time with my child, with the loud thumping music somewhere on the background. I can still have a dance, just not in the middle of it. And no drugged up person, not even a cigarette smoking one will come near my child! Just my friends, many of them I only get to see once a year.
Firetom: The child you'll hit by accident on the dancefloor will not be mine!


Ask a question and be a fool for a minute...don't ask and be a fool your whole life.

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FireTom


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Posted:YAY to Firetramp!!!!! clap

*looks into his "Karma"-files*

fortunately there is no comment about me, knocking over a child! phew! biggrin

Besides - even when I am firespinning, or dancing full power I am so sensitive of my environment, so I hardly ever "bump" into anyone.. even if I'm tipsy shrug somehow that seems boring... frown wink so much that occasionally I have to do it on purpose, because there are some people out there I like to make contact with wink biggrin


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

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Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:I've been to festivals with kids and they have a great time. So I don't see what the fuss is all about if kids reqiurements are met and managed.


Rainbow kids this weekend biggrin


bounce


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


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Posted:@stone: sure. I have been to the (open air) nightclub yesterday again and kids age 4 were present, also a baby age 5 month was there again - not so sure about the great time of this one but the others had a blast - no question.

What are a childs requirements? This definition has a huge range. Parents intoxicated... why not? The baby will hardly notice. People in the dancing frenzy... why not? After all this is reality. People on drops or extasy or coke approaching the Oh so sweeeeeeeeeeat little one with rubberfaces... why not? After all this is reality too. A child playing between 2 hundred ravers stomping the dust... why not?

You know - I'm not trying to tell anyone what is right and what is wrong. I personally can't understand the choices, some parents make and therefore raise(d) the issue...

Personally a kid has a great time, if theres any ind of input and action around it. It will ask for more and more unless it drops down and sleeps on the spot. The child will not determine between "what is good" and "what is not so good" - everything is neutral...

As parents we decide for the child what is "good" and what is not. It's our choice - nothing more shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

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Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:
Fire Tom, if its upsetting u so much, then perhaps its time you stopped going to (open air) nightclubs. Youre bringing the drugs here, not the kids or their parents.

Kids at festivals have a great time, much better than me. I think you are talking about neglect, which is everywhere. The worst cases Ive heard of are the parents who lock their kids in the family car to fry, while they go to the casino.


eek


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:No stone please hug don't get me wrong - it's not upsetting me half as much as you may put into my words... smile

Even though I certainly (hope that I) misunderstand this part:

Written by: stone
Youre bringing the drugs here, not the kids or their parents.



umm

Really I don't doubt that kids have great fun with the freakshow (in which I'm not participating anyways, ^) - and if a parent doesn't care about the mad state some of the kids fall into while being exposed to this scenery, even then I will not put my attitude on them.

As I said: I'm just wondering about the choices some people take (mine not excluded wink )... A child of age 3-5 running over the dancefloor at pitchblack night is sometimes pretty lucky not to get knocked over... don't you think so, too?

If you want to imply that you're going to the festivals for the sake of your kids only wink - I don't buy it smile


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted:And now I discovered something truely amazing...

I completely changed my attitude towards this. At first I was really a little pi**ed off about the topic. mad2... admitted. In the last few posts this feeling shrunk and now I looked deeper into it, finding out that in fact I was feeling very uncomfortable dancing, when I knew a child would roam the dancefloor. Also I was kind of concerned about watching the childrens (kinda mad) behaviour when they started dancing (imitating the "grown ups"). Sure I still wonder why the pregnant would dance full on in the crowd (and maybe getting bumped into) and still I am not happy about babies on the dancefloor - but hey, everyone does as s/he pleases. shrug

I'd certainly not accept any parental claim when their kid get knocked to the round, but in general shrug just one hour ago I noticed - it's not affecting me anymore, because after all: it's none of my business.

I have no right to raise the question to any parent or give them the umm - look, to question whether or not the parents are just addicted (to bass). And after all it's a lot of weight put on the childs shoulders if parents change their habits just because of their little one, no?

I just thought I'd let you know that this thread actually had some effect on me...

thnx 2 all hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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dani_babyboo
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

dani_babyboo

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Posted:Written by: Stone


Fire Tom, if its upsetting u so much, then perhaps its time you stopped going to (open air) nightclubs. Youre bringing the drugs here, not the kids or their parents.

Kids at festivals have a great time, much better than me. I think you are talking about neglect, which is everywhere. The worst cases Ive heard of are the parents who lock their kids in the family car to fry, while they go to the casino.


eek



well said stone sorry but theres a big difference between clubs where it adults only type raves and open raves where the adults actually know that theres a possibility children might be there with there parents and as they see there is why bring drugs to a place like that and get off your face???
you are all meant to be adult and as stone says its rarely the parents who are off there face thats just irrisponible and then it is a more serious case of pure neglet and abuse of the child welfare and needs..

firetom im glad you are having a change of heart cause it isnt nice judging ppl on what you think a parent is doing just cause they take there child somewhere


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KJJ


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Posted:OK this thread is way to long to read so im just gonna chuck in my two cents at the end.....


At the kind of raves i attend there is a very family friendly atmosphere. Kids are welcome. Generally they are all put to bed (where they are minded) by 9 or 10 before anyone get too off theyre trolley. Their parents are not the ones doin the drugs they are just there to do some dancing, meet the peeps and have a good time, involving their kids. After witnessing this sort of behaviour i think in the long run the kids benefit from this as they see how large groups of people can interact harmoniously, and yes they probably do get exposed to people on drugs every now and then but i think that they may just grow up being a little better informed that those kids who have it hidden from them and are told simply 'drugs are bad, you will die in the gutter with a needle in your arm if you smoke pot'

As for the bit about you wont still be ravin by the time your kids are old enough to understand......balony if doofing is really apart of you it will be for life! I'll be doofin when im 65 for sure!

What i worry about more are the 14, 15, 16 year olds who dont understand the beauty of perfection of an outdoor doof/festival and are just there to get F***ed up!


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dani_babyboo
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dani_babyboo

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Posted:i have to agree with kjj in the fact a lot of ids are brought up with the wrong knowledge of drugs and a lot of the time parents being too protective/ strict the children rebel as a teen and go get mashed anyway

my mum told me she ever caught me clubbing or smoking or drinking ect she would kill me well i did them all before i was 16 including drugs where as my dad smoked green and he did it with me from the age of 16...

my dad has a better understanding of different substances and if as a teen my children asked me about drugs and the effects i would explain properly not go off my head at them saying they are bad blah blah blah, at least if you are honest and explain the dangers and the what you should and shouldnt do whilst taking then if your teen goes out and trys it at least they have that knowledge cause lets face it they are going to try stuff if they want to regardless of what you say to them

isnt it better a child/ teen is taught the dangers and what to do and not to do rather than be threatened and pushed towards doing something they have no knowledge of and can end up dead because they drank too much water whilst taking an E thinking they had to drink loads. as thats a main cause. the myth is drink plenty cause you will die from dehydration when mainly people drown from too much water
you are meant to sip a pint of water every hour to keep hydrated. also drinking alcohol whilst on drugs ppl think they are drinking so will be hydrated when alcohol dehydrates you more and then you dehydrate...

there is a lot children can learn from the real life as long as people are sensible


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onewheeldave
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Posted:Written by:

and can end up dead because they drank too much water whilst taking an E thinking they had to drink loads. as thats a main cause. the myth is drink plenty cause you will die from dehydration when mainly people drown from too much water




Would it be possibe for you to post a link to any articles addressing the fact that clubbers have drowned from drinking too much water?


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dani_babyboo
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Posted:wrong word to use drowning it it is a main factor too much or too little water

was told that by medics when i was taken to them after aheavy clubbing weekend at a pontins holiday park and they stopped me drinking too much water

last time i took heavy stuff back then


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dani_babyboo
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Posted:your proof my dear read the paragraph drinking too much fluid

here click

from a very well used drug and drink information site


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.:star:.
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Posted:I don't think that OWD was disputing that too much water when on ecstasy can kill. I think what he was questioning was your use of the word 'drowning' (correct me if i'm wrong OWD)

Water is one of the most common factors in ecstasy related deaths but its not drowning smile
Written by: The Good Drugs Guide

Inexperienced users who are worried about overheating and dehydration may over-compensate, drink huge amounts of water and suffer from 'water-poisoning' or hyponatraemia.

When excessive amounts of water or fluid are consumed, the sodium balance of the body is disturbed and the organs swell. This is very dangerous for the brain, which cannot expand inside the skull. It becomes compressed, putting pressure on the brain stem which controls heart and breathing functions. This can lead to coma and death. Leah Betts is a tragic case in point.




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dani_babyboo
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Posted:yes i know i did correct myself after saying wrong word but i only used it as a slang for the fact it is still too much water

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onewheeldave
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Posted:Written by: dani_babyboo

your proof my dear read the paragraph drinking too much fluid

here click

from a very well used drug and drink information site



Cheers for the link dani- I wasn't aware that ecstasy users could be prone to drinking so much water that it kills them.

Written by:

Drinking too much fluid
It is believed that some victims misunderstood the importance of sipping a pint of non-alcoholic fluid per hour to reduce the risk of overheating, and instead drank in excess. As ecstasy is thought to cause water retention in the body, especially in the brain cells, the resulting pressure can cause vital body functions to shut down.




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But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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dani_babyboo
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Posted:no problems

one of the things i made sure i ws clued up on was the effects of drugs and how to take safely . as yes being an oldskool raver yet not having the greatest health meant i had to be extra careful in what i did in the past


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

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Posted:I fail to see how discouraging your kids from taking drugs/drinking will make them as or more likely to take them. Surely if you don't discourage them, then that will be taken to mean you're happy for them to do what they want?

I know when I was younger then I consciously thought "Did my mother say I couldn't do this?" If the answer was "No" then odds were I'd do it, but if "Yes" then I wouldn't. And believe me I tried so hard to find semantic loopholes in what she said I could or couldn't do! biggrin

Isn't it better to say "Drugs screw you up, please don't do them" rather than "Here, try this, this and this"?

On a side note, it's almost impossible to take drugs "safely". If drugs were safe then they'd be legal. They're not, so they aren't. shrug


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FireTom


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Posted:heyas - what a twist in the thread smile

Meaning that by taking your kids to fesivals and clubs, showing them the rubberfaces and (sometimes) zombieshow, we'd actually help them to stay off drugs? Like real life examples and demonstration?

O.K. so lets all take our youngsters to the parties clap biggrin wink


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dani_babyboo
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Posted:sethis i never said to encourage them
i meant as in tell them the real dangers of drugs yes warn them off them but not be so strict they go do it without feeling they can talk to you about it first... id rather my kids came and asked me about them rather then take them behind my back without knowing some of the facts...

and i did say in my post that they are not 100% safe but to know how you can take as safe as possible if you chose to take is a good thing>


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tribaltrixie
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Posted:Firetramp - I want to congraulate you on getting your bump!! Good luck and my best warmest vibes to you!! I hope you got lotsa good Kundalini vibes at our party!!! We are doing another on the 8th April if you are still doing any socialising at that stage..... (www.kundaliniuk.com). I was organising & working at psy-trance parties until I was 5 months pregnant with my twins and attended a Return to the Source one week before I had them; I spent most of the night (and I only stayed a few hours) sat on a comfy sofa to the side of the DJ booth, where it wasn't too loud, watching the crowd go mad - I loved it! In fact I found the hardest period being pregnant were the earlier stages when I had a fair few hormones swimming around my bloodstream - I could not even think about drinking coffee never mind alcohol or taking anything stronger - man, my body was telling me LOUD AND CLEAR what to ingest and what was poison.

I was working full-time in the Royal Festival Hall when I was pregnant too, so as well as listening to psy-trance from the womb my kids got to listen to all sorts of classical music concerts and world music performances - I would feel them sometimes beating in time to the music; it was very amazing.

And yes, having a baby does change your party habits - oh yes! I had visions of swinging my baby into a sling and off I would go, but it is a little harder with two...

However on the few occasions when I can go out clubbing now, I wouldn't even dream of taking my kids - man, I want to go let my hair down and forget about being grown-up even for just a few hours and I can not do that in mum-mode! I would never ever take my kids to a full on rave; I saw this once at a squat party - a few mums holding babies-toddlers on the dance floor right next to huge speakers, obviously drugged up - awful. I left pretty upset as this was a sign of obvious neglect; these parents however need help and education as well as serious drug-rehab. I would also like to point out that in this country it is illegal for nightclubs and pubs to let kids in under the age of 18 because of the sale of alcohol laws - there are places that have exceptions because they may sell food, have an exempt outdoor garden or have a special day time waver, but for most indoor venues it is absolutely illegal.

But I have at every opportunity taken my kids to day parties (very different from nightclubs) like Planet Angel and small festivals such as the Kingston Green Fair; and there is something for everyone there. I have also taken them, on a few occasions, to the Poi Clapham Meet and have bought them their own fluffy poi and diabolos - they will be better than me soon I know it! And now I have bought my own tipi and I just can't wait to get out to the those kid friendly festies with my kids to have a fantastic time with them doing fun kiddie stuff and educating them without them realising it about GREAT music, another way of living from the accepted norm' and most importantly having a wonderful time with friends - all in a totally responsible way.

love and light to all you amazing party mums
xxx ubblove


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DivaTasha
BRONZE Member since Jul 2006

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Location: Alabama

Total posts: 1
Posted:I am very much of the opinion that I will not be taking my child to any festivals until she is at least eight....thank you for giving me a full view...

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

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Posted:Sethis, I would question the validity of your comment about drugs being legal if they were safe... I think safety, particularly physical safety, is really really far down the line as far as reasons why many drugs are not legal. But that would be for a new thread, now wouldn't it?

Someone may have already mentionned this, but since I just saw it again recently at a party I will comment regardless... The major concern I see around where I live is a simple one- volume. I worry sometimes about the babies and kids losing their hearing due to the extreme bass thunping volume levels at local gigs. I wear earplugs myself, since I value my hearing. But I can still feel the bass through my bones. Wonder what that feels like to an infant? And yes, I sometimes see people in the middle of the mosh with a baby on their shoulders...

At any rate, protect the delicate ears of the little ones please! That way, they can lose their hearing later, in their teens, of their own free will.;)


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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dani_babyboo
SILVER Member since Feb 2005

dani_babyboo

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Posted:to go in a pub you can be 14 as long as you are with a responsible adult or parent and not drinking some pubs allow younger in the evenings but 14 is the main age because at 14 you can be quite responsible such as old enough to look after siblings at home. unless the pub has a club license i.e. town pubs with late licenses that actually state no under 18s allowed on the door.

ive ran a pub and a nightclub.
also lived above a pub when i was 12 to 16
and at age 14 i was running a kareoki with my dad in local pubs especially the one i lived above.
they dont have to serve food and most wont at night, it all depends on the tyoe of pub and where its situated.


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