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DoktorSkell
SILVER Member since Jan 2005

DoktorSkell

addict
Location: Van Diemans Land

Total posts: 475
Posted:I understand this would have been done before. But i have been thinking about this a lot lately.

When i was a wee young thing my parents sent me to a school where Christian study was part of the curriculum. As was going to the school chapel.

Now even when i was young what i was being told never made much sense to me and as i got older i knew i was being fed lies.

What i am trying to say is. I was told There was a God and Jesus in school. I was forced to go to the school chapel twice a week. I really think that i should not have.

One thing that i remember is that there was also quite a few students of fairly diverse faith in this school. A few Hindu's and Sikh's included.
But i cant for the life of me remember if they were also present in these classes and at the chapel. I sure wish i could remember as it would be interesting to see if they forced a fifteen year old Sikh wearing a turban and a beard to to Christian church.

Not trying to talk down upon christianity mind you. If a person chooses to become a christian when they are old enough to make the decision for themselves thats fine. But for a child at school to be taught is in my opinion plain wrong.

Especially when we are supposedly suppose to learn and believe whatever the teachers tell us frown


Fair luna bright, fair luna moon
it shines at night but fades too soon
fair luna moon, fair luna bright
forever we dance
we dance under starlight

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Posted:religion has no place in a public school whatsoever. if you by choice enroll in a school that teaches a specific religion that is your choice. now classes that teach about different religions are a different matter all together. learning about different religions gives you a more enformed choice when it comes time to or you feel the need to choose "a " religion to live by.no one likes being preached to but many enjoy learning about said things. if you are going to take your child to church, take them to many different churches do they can see for themselves what interests them. forced relgion is one thing a choice is another. we do not need to do what our parents did but we do need to offer choices in order for our children to have choices.

in goth we trust

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:ditto

In schools they should teach "Ethics" and humanitarian philosophy... not religion...

Hence one should learn as much as possible about ALL different religions and belief systems, not just about one...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Icer
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Icer

just a shadow of my former self...
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 205
Posted:i think the problem can be that ethics and humanitarian philosophy get so entangled with religion and vice versa that it sometimes becomes hard to separate them out. i think knowledge is power, and any choice as profoundly life changing as a choice of faith or religion, needs to be a very well informed choice.

as for the school thing, if a parent chooses to send a kid to a christian school, it is not the schools fault that the child is taught the christian faith, it is the parents who were responsible. ofcourse, if the parent has no choice due to the avaliability of schools, then that is probably indicative of a much wider social problem.


It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

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Tom_Shill
SILVER Member since Dec 2005

Tom_Shill

enthusiast
Location: Brighton

Total posts: 213
Posted:Yeah I agree with most of what's been said. It's partly a problem with the law. It's a legal requirement that schools provide something like half an hour of "collective worship" every day, which is the main reason they have to have assemblies. Different schools do this to different extents, but particularly in primary schools there are a lot of bible stories and hymns just because christianity is prevailant. So it's partly the law and partly the schools: the law stipulates that kids have to worship together, and the schools automatically teach christianity. It's the same with RE. Done well it could be exactly what Janice was talking about, providing a grounding in a range of faiths and cultures to offer a choice and to help understand others. However in my experience the focus is always on christianity and judaism. We did dabble in hinduism but only to the extent of making monkey masks and pretending to be Raman. Not quite the diverse overview of religion we had in mind. Having said that, at primary school age I don't think anyone has the capacity to really believe anything religious. Even basic morals need constant reinforcement at that age so although what was going on at school bordered on indoctrination it wasn't intense enough to really stick, and without reinforcement at home it had no effect at all. By secondary school I was aware of what was going on and if anything the narrow minded RE teachers provoked me into thinking "well sod this, I'm going to find out for myself" so I did. So although it didn't happen the way we have been recommending, it did have the effect that we would have aimed for. So maybe it's not so bad. Perhaps if they tought everything in school then people would be switched off religion and philosophy all together, rather than just off christianity as I was.
EDITED_BY: Tom_Shill (1136541514)


Will those capable of telekinesis please raise my hand?

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Dunc
GOLD Member since Aug 2003

Dunc

playing the days away
Location: The Middle lands

Total posts: 7263
Posted:I think it's important to teach religion at school, but preaching religion shouldn't be allowed. being taught about various faiths and beleifs gives yound people good grounding to make educated choices when/if they choose a faith. Being forced to pray for Christ etc is imoral in my opinion.

I used to beleive in the Christian God as a child, heck I used to beleive in Santy Claus too, but when in class we were being made to learn and recite the Lord Prayer, I looked across and saw a few Indians ( I use the generic term as I have no memory if they were seeks, muslims, Pakistani's etc) being forced to learn and recite it too I figured there must not be god or He (it) wouldn't force them to do this. As I grew older my opinion grew stronger.

It's right for teachers to teach, it's wrong for teachers to preach unless it's a school with a specific religious bias that the parents have chosen for their children, but even then I have issues but have stronger feelings about parental choice over minors.


Let's relight this forum ubblove

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Pink...?
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

Pink...?

Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
Location: Over There

Total posts: 6140
Posted:We had a brilliant "RS" (Religious Studies) Class at high school.

We had a great teacher, can't remember her name for the life of me. But she came from Africa, where Polyamory was legal. She had 8 or so mothers, and one father. Because she had such a "untypical" background compared to English background, she was very open to things.

We took a topic, say abortion, or Euthanasia to "mundane" things like Schooling & Marriage, and got taught what each religion believed about it, (i.e. Whether it was against their religion, why they didn't like it etc..) then we had a debate about our feelings on it. Which was good as we had a variety of different religions in my class (Jehova witness, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish,Catholic, Christian, Agnostic...) I learnt so much of other peoples views on topics.

I feel it has helped me not to offend other people's religions, but teaching me their ways. I know not to send a Jehova Witness a christmas card, and so on...


Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:I have no problem like many have said with children being taught about religion. my main gripe is when its forced onto them. My son is in a Primary school, where they all have to pray and sing hyms, learn about jesus and God. they do cover other religons but not to the larger scale. I have had a few run ins with the school over this. MY oldest son used to go to the same school, was made to pray and sing to a God that is not part of our religion, he didn't feel comfy doing this so stopped. he wasn't disrutpive during assembly prayer time he just bowed his head to which he got told of for. When the school was confonted about it by me i was told he had to pray or not be in assembly. i do not see why he should miss out on the other things that go on in that time and made it very clear that he would be going to assembley but he would not be praying. The school don't like it much but its tough, they are my children and if they do not want to pray they shouldn't have to. When my oldest attended he mentioned once that he was Pagan and could they cover some of his festivals, he was told by his teacher No becuase she didn't think it was a real religion!!!!!
The problems still occur now that my youngest still attends, and i think they are getting used to "Our ways" my youngest and i even got wished a happy Yule on the last day of term by his form teacher.
When i get asked by the kids about other religions i tell them as much as i can and make sure they understand that there are alot of beliefs in the world but mainly the fact that this is ok. its just a shame that its crammed down their necks that there is one true God and jesus was his son.


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Icer
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

Icer

just a shadow of my former self...
Location: Christchurch

Total posts: 205
Posted:i think we are starting to touch on what might be the real gripe on this thread, that is the forced worship (or prayer) of something you dont personally believe in. such as a pagan child being forced to pray to God or Jesus. This is, sadly, a result of christians missing the whole point of prayer and worship. Now, im not bashing christians, not that i think anyone here would defend them. But to force someone to pray or worship God or Christ completely defeats the point of prayer or worship. Im sure the people forcing these child to pray have their reasons, but they are not from the Bible which is where their inspiration should be (in theory) generated.



i think forcing prayer and worship is another example of people misinterpreting, misunderstanding and misrepresenting a religion.


It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.

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Posted:that is one thing i do appriciate about the canadian school system. they are not allowed to have any religious content in their school day other than once the children reach the highschool levels they can take classes that teach about all different religions.

question: in the US is religion still taught in every school? or in any other country that you may be from...


in goth we trust

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marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:
I think science will finish off religon, we live in an increasingly secular society, for what it's worth society will probably outgrow this anachronism,

mark


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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:Written by: janice


question: in the US is religion still taught in every school? or in any other country that you may be from...



http://www.noapathy.org/tracts/mythofseparation.html
br>And in the UK its still taught, mainly christianity


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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Posted:
GothFrogette

i read that artical thank you.


personally i think church and state should be seperated. the two do not in this day and age go together. i think france in the recent past has in practice that very thing but got alot of flack in doing so. personally i see it as a good thing.


in goth we trust

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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston

Total posts: 2666
Posted:MY oldest son used to go to the same school, was made to pray and sing to a God that is not part of our religion, he didn't feel comfy doing this so stopped. he wasn't disrutpive during assembly prayer time he just bowed his head to which he got told of for. When the school was confonted about it by me i was told he had to pray or not be in assembly. i do not see why he should miss out on the other things that go on in that time and made it very clear that he would be going to assembley but he would not be praying </font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />







Actually I used to think why are some school roman catholic and why are some church of england or whatever, now I see a big advantage, if your raising your son church of england send it too a CoE school so this wont happen.



I dont think theres anything wrong with schools teaching religion, after all parents often do the same thing if a paire of jewish parents decide to raise there children jewish also from birth theres nothing wrong with that, schools are just going along with what parents do.



grrr stupid quote thing messing up.

EDITED_BY: Brit_Joe (1136648436)


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Gelfling
BRONZE Member since Jul 2004

Gelfling

Watcher of 80s cartoons
Location: Chepstow & Bristol

Total posts: 665
Posted:Written by: janice

Personally I think church and state should be separated. The two do not in this day and age go together. I think France in the recent past has in practice that very thing but got a lot of flack in doing so. Personally I see it as a good thing.



How can banning girls from attending school (unless they take off the head scarves that they choose to ware due to their cultural traditions) ever be seen as a good thing?

Written by: marco
I think science will finish off religon



The more we know about science the more we can appreciate its complexity, beauty and the more we appreciate how unlikely all the events that have led to existence. So what is more likely: the existence of a creative force that some call God or improbable event after improbable event?


>What do you think about the state of the Earth?
>I'm optimistic.
>So why do you look so sad?
>I'm not sure that my optimism is justified.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Gelfling


The more we know about science the more we can appreciate its complexity, beauty and the more we appreciate how unlikely all the events that have led to existence. So what is more likely: the existence of a creative force that some call God or improbable event after improbable event?





To claim they're improbable is somewhat presumptuous.

Science endeavours to show that reality proceeds in a deterministic manner, ie one event causes another, and, given the exact same cause, the exact same event occurs.

Except, to some extent, in the quantum world (sub-atomic scale) where probability rules.

Improbable events will inevitably occur, by the simple rules of statistics.

IMO, any supposedly improbable aspects of the world that some may attribute to God, can equally plausibly be explained by science.

And we should bear in mind that, substantiation for the 'argument from design for God's existence' is in no way advanced by simply coming up with more examples of 'improbable' aspects of the world. Eyes, watches, penguin voyages etc, etc, are simply extra examples of 'improbable' aspects, that scientists (who disagree with the argument from design) simply consider to be not at all improbable.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Psychaotica


newbie
Location: The Peach Kingdom

Total posts: 20
Posted:Sadly it's never as simple as it starts out to be...

Between our countries constant problems with resource and religion allocation, our sense of 'right' and 'wrong' have blurred, leaving us a lost vessel upon the sea of government.

My opinion on the matter of religion in school? It has no place there. School is for learning and despite my early departure from it, I do feel that it's not a place for religion.

I've seen fights at schools over religion, and to tell the truth, it amused me beyond words. There, two fifteen year olds kicking the hell out of each other arguing at the top of their lungs about who's god was real or not.

I found it rather funny that, given the circumstances, these two wasted their time on it.

If there is a god, or any other diety after life, then I'll meet them then.

Religion should be as a sickness, not as a lesson. I.E: "Caught, not taught." as the japanese have a way of putting it. [ About shintoism.]

Through all of this, I have no religion due to being too busy. Now before you ask, 'HOW can you be too BUSY?', I say this.

My life is hectic. I move about 2 times ever three or so months, and where I am one week, won't be where I am the next. Thus effectivly stopping my joining a congregation, not that I would anyway.

Between writing, reading, working, moving, sleeping, and other such activites, I find that religion is very much the one occupation of my time that holds no meaning or interest for me, save perhaps the study of religions. Theology is a fun way to relax, though most of the arguments I hear on it are something like,

"My god has a bigger dick than your god."
"Nuh-uh! Mine does!"

And so on. It's a pointless endeavor to push religion on children, when all that they should have to deal with is CHILDHOOD. Being a kid is hard enough, but having to deal with people saying if you do THIS you'll go to heaven, and if you believe THIS you're going to go to hell.

Being from tennessee, I've heard that far too often.

Let a kid be a kid, it doesn't last that long anyway before innocence is ruined.

Regards,
Drake


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Psychaotica


newbie
Location: The Peach Kingdom

Total posts: 20
Posted:Note: I remember when I was younger asking WHAT god was and WHY.

The answers were vague if anything so when asked by my little brother the same questions I bought a paper and showed him the death section.

"This is 'god'." I said. Flipping through until I came to a picture of a newborn baby.

"And THIS is god as well."

He just nodded and shook his head.

Then, at the age of eight, said something that I had to laugh at, because it's the way of the world.

"Money is my god. I can see it, I can feel it, I can use it, and I can save it. And if I use it right, it can save me."

My little brother will be 12 this march 4th. And he still considers money to be a god. I agree.

Read 'stranger in a strange land'. A book that changed my life, as well as my outlook on religion.

Anyway, enough of my chatter. Sorry for posting so much.

regards,
Drake


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Moka
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

Moka

is a medium/large scary man
Location: Victoria, Australia, Earth, Mi...

Total posts: 420
Posted:Written by: Dunc

I think it's important to teach religion at school, but preaching religion shouldn't be allowed. being taught about various faiths and beleifs gives yound people good grounding to make educated choices when/if they choose a faith. Being forced to pray for Christ etc is imoral in my opinion.




ditto I'll drink to that... beerchug


Contact juggling was invented by dung beetles.

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GothFrogette
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton

Total posts: 3999
Posted:Written by: Brit_Joe


Actually I used to think why are some school roman catholic and why are some church of england or whatever, now I see a big advantage, if your raising your son church of england send it too a CoE school so this wont happen.

I dont think theres anything wrong with schools teaching religion, after all parents often do the same thing if a paire of jewish parents decide to raise there children jewish also from birth theres nothing wrong with that, schools are just going along with what parents do.

grrr stupid quote thing messing up.




i have nothing against schools teaching about religions (My sons by the way go to non C of E schools) but its the forcing religion on them i do not agree with. after all its one thing to be told "This is what some people believe" and another being told "This is what you are to believe in"
I have never onced forced my personal beliefs on my children, they observe, ask questions as they do of other religions as its their choice of they choose a belief system to follow

janice... Your welcome


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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