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Forums > Social Discussion > Reiki - what makes me shiver?

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:For quite some time I experience a strange physical feeling with people who are practising "Reiki"...

It's not only internal, but also physical - meaning that I get goose bumps when having interaction with "Reiki"-practicioners. This even works while on the internet exchanging eMails... eek

Mostly the feeling is kind of "neutral goosebumping", sometimes somewhat positive and sometimes very negative...

It seems to be in high fashion to get "Reiki"-initiated and I don't want to judge it here and now on any level - but have my very own approach to it out of my own experience.

I would like to put out for discussion:

1) Why "Reiki" initiation?
2) Do you have had similar experiences like the one described above?
3) What are your personal experiences with "Reiki"?
4) Would you, or would you not like to see "Reiki" as "the universal healing tool"?

Now I put this in "Social Discussion" umm not in "Social Chat" and I'd really like to see some fundamental input - for all other, please use PM's.

Yes, I'm asking for "personal" experiences - individually rendered impressions - not some 3rd-hand "my cousins grandmothers cleaningladys dog got cured from rabies and I reckon that's a good thing"

ubblol ubbangel devil spank wink
-------------------------------------


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:a little off topic, but something that is so great about reiki, if you feel a bit sick, just reiki your stomach and you vomit straight away!
I hate hanging about waiting for your body to throw up, and feeling crappy for ages. :P


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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Mojojo
GOLD Member since Mar 2005

Mojojo

wandering dingo
Location: Aussie in London

Total posts: 167
Posted:Wow some long and interesting discussions!



I find the above method is brilliant for hangovers wink 'cept it doesn't make me vomit!



My experiences:



I find when I give reiki I either get deeply relaxed and peaceful, or mischievious and energetic.



My understanding of the use of symbols is that it gives the student something tangible and visible to associate with the energy, particularly as they are learning. I no longer use them.



When I had my first reiki attunement I was neither a skeptic nor a believer. I doubted that I would be able to do it or fell it though. I didn't feel much at all in the attunement, but could sense the energy. I had trouble sleeping as I was so energetic. I also began to notice small details, such as exquisite colours of flowers I had looked at every day, and notice more little details around me. A while after first degree, I noticed that the chronic and frequent headaches I usually suffered (for the previous 15 years) had almost vanished. To this day (4 years on) I still get headaches, but at about 5% of the frequency, and much less incapacitating. Actually my boss at work pointed it out to me that I hadn't had a headache in two months, along with noticing that I was more energetic and bubbly. So it worked for me.



I am now undertaking my masters, also at no monetary cost, but thanks to the kindness of a dear friend.



I've had several interesting experiences including distance healings that seemed to work almost immediately. A distance "scan" of a friend, revealing some interesting and unusual things, when I called her that evening she had been home from work sick that day and listed off exactly what we had picked up in the scan.

A gruff, blokey sixty year old underground miner asked us for a treatment out of curiosity, and the next day told us that in forty years he had not slept more than 4 hours a night, and after reiki had a wonderful 9 hour sleep.

So then he told all the other underground miners and everyone wanted treatments! So we were pretty busy for a while. The mining company we worked for set up a room for us in the camp and bought a massage table for us to use for treating employees.



I spent some time reiki-ing my aunt by distance when she was dying from cancer, and she found it helped ease the pain and side effects of the serious meds she was on.



My most amazing experiences were recently in third degree, however they were deeply personal and have quite profoundly challenged some of my beliefs or rather lack thereof. And I'm not going to share here! Since third degree I now easily see when people are doing reiki, and often see interesting energy exchanges between people I don't know.



I don't think its the answer to everything, but I do believe it helps. If nothing else it just feel lovely and it is great to lie back and switch off the brain for a while.



With animals, interestingly I've noticed that generally cats don't like it or are indifferant (or look at me indignantly - as if they needed MY help!) And dogs love it.



And if someone doesn't want reiki then their body often won't accept it and will block it. I have had people come to me for a treatment of their own accord and them block the energy as they are not ready to accept healing.



I also don't believe that money necessary be exchanged. However I think it is important to be thankful and appreciative for the healing. Some people want to give money (I've never taken any). Some have other things to offer. But gratitude is enough.


Only three things are certain: Death, Taxes, and that England will not win back the Ashes in this lifetime.

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:Written by: Valura

I am a reiki master...



Why didn't that surprise me? You're really an interesting and beautiful person Valura, I'd like to get to know you better.

I'd never heard of this reiki thing before i stumbled in here, but it all sounds very interesting.

I've always been very interested in this sort of thing... energy and psychic healing and stuff (yes you guy's will make a hippy out of me yet, i'm sure of it)... magic for want of a better term really... but at the same time i've always been quite sceptical having never expericenced any of it in a significant way... I don't know what point i'm trying to make here... but this has definately been an interesting read... thanks for sharing...


"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:redface redface redface

awww thanks Fox. hug


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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FoxInDocs
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

FoxInDocs

Pooh-Bah
Location: Adelaide, SA

Total posts: 1848
Posted:hehe, you're welcome hug

"i am exotic, and must keep my arms down" - Rougie

"i don't understand what penises have to do with getting married" - Foxie

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Very nice biggrin

I seem to have lost my chills (maybe) as I was facing encounters with some Reiki-practicioners, without experiencing the sensation... shrug

But to topic I have to say that many seem to live in a bubble... at least when I look at it... shrug I have not yet come to a conclusion and maybe never will, but would like to share this for the discussion:

Healing powers, telepathy, telekinesis - all the psi-forms of using and transmitting energy (to me) is somehow magic (as in "supernatural")

Magic, as the energy it uses is (IMHO) basically neutral - it doesn't determine betwen right/ wrong, good/ bad, it just is as it is. It depends on the intent under which it is used and the method it is applied, maybe...

But even if there is no "good" or "bad" energy, it has effects that I can validate as "good for me" and "bad for me".. as long as I'm receiving cure I might not waste big thoughts about where the cure comes from and how it arose.

Yet there is something between the lines and sheets that I can't grasp and is hard to explain/ express for me.

Healing powers anyone has to a certain extent. How to unleash these powers is one of the key questions. And how to deal with the side-effects, the "energy-garbage" that a "healer" has to face (so to speak). Anyone who is providing massages to various people might have had experienced fluctuations of the remains... sometimes feeling really drenched, sometimes feeling very energetic, after giving/ receiving a massage.

Here, Reiki offers a very easy way: Attunement. Get attuned and you unleash your healing energies, accessing the "universal life power" and not suffering much side effects afterwards.

To me this sounds like: "Free beer with every toothpick you purchase"... it makes me suspicious - sorry for being a sceptic.

I look around me and talk to people practicing Reiki, but note that not many are following a wholistic lifestyle, even vice versa. Almost none of those I met preactice meditation and many are very young.

This is not about age and a healthy lifestyle, I am just expressing what is popping up in my mind.

There are many many ways to develop ones healing powers and many more to utilize them. Personally I am suspicious against getting hooked up upon something that seems to not come from out of myself - to a pool that I have little to no experience with and that is not displaying a general "code of ethics". Not that the oath of hippocracy is really working as in making good doctors, but still.

Personally I have received a "bad Reiki" once and I tell you this is something that I never want to experience again - I had never felt the "death-urge" so intense in my entire life. It is a long and special story - too long for this here...

... but coming from that experience I can witness that Reiki can be abused and is not all that fluffy, hosycosy as most people want to (make) believe... shrug

Still I do not brush all "practicioners" over one and the same edge hug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Tom, reiki practioners are just like tubes that the energy passes through. As long as they close themselves down so they dont pass any of their own energy to the recipient,(and vice versa) only feel the benefits should be felt.

A few years ago my best friend was in a state, crying over her boyfriend and had a huge migraine as she was so stressed. I was so concerned, I gave her reiki healing without closing myself off properly. After the treatment I felt like crap! I was crying and had a huge headache! She, however,felt great!!


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks Jo smile

but in my case it was different: I felt like sh*t and the guy was doing great... but this is an entirely different and more complex story.

However, I personally do not trust in the information that Reiki is "foolproof" and can only be used to benefit others. But all this without wanting to have or proclaiming suspicion against practitioners of Reiki in general.

As I said before, there are many many ways to work with energies and to administer help and aid to others besides Reiki. Right now I personally would not seek Reiki as an aid anymore, without really knowing the person who supplies it shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:As with any healing or help in general, I think you have to trust the practitioner. smile

Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I'm not so sure about this one, Jo - if someone takes out my appendix with surgery, I do not even have to know her/ him... slice, cut, stitch back together, heal... wink

But if someone is "working" with (my) energies - I certainly have to "trust" her/ him... umm wink

See, simply what I am trying to point out with my concern is that I do not "trust" a drunken surgeon (including the fact that 24hrs emergency shift makes one drunk like after the consumption of alcohol) who is a moron. As much would I trust a "alternative" (*) healer, who is into heavy drug abuse or totally out of her/ his mind...

Also I'd be looking for an experienced surgeon - someone who has been working in this "job" for some time, rather than a "newbie"... Same applies with any kind of healing - shouldn't it?

I am not opposing Reiki and I don't bait people in making contradictory statements - I hope this didn't come across like that - I just want to raise a little bit of awareness about an otherwise unregarded topic.

Most people do speak about a "universal healing energy" that can neither be abused, nor cause any harmful side effects... And as I am reading the above posts and talk to practitioners personally, to me this is simply a myth - but one that finds NO critical echo in the public whatsoever (at least I cannot find any in the www)...

People get "attuned" without having themselves informed about what they've been "attuned" to, without any information about the founder, without any discipline or code of ethics coming with it (at least not that I would know of - whatever that means). And this concerns me...

Have you ever heard of anyone who wanted to "disengage" from this attunement?

Can one get rid of this connection if finding her/ himself troubled with this "universal healing energy"?

Again: I am just raising questions here - no judgement, only trying to descern...

(*) the terms "alternative" and "conventional" (IMHO) are used the wrong way round... the homeopathic and (what is regarded as) "alternative" medicine has been around much longer than modern surgery and medication. The latter should be the last alternative to wholistic healing approaches.... shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jo_rhymes
SILVER Member since Apr 2005

jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops

Total posts: 4525
Posted:Tom, I am constantly disengaged from the energy unless I invoke it.
I seriously doubt 100% one would be troubled by the enrgy, as you've said.
Also, people who get attuned without being informed are being pretty silly.
I went on a 4 day juice-fast and meditation to prepare my body and had a day of learning about reiki before my master would even attune me. smile


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:I'd like to repeat my question to all the people who are familiar with Reiki:

If someone finds her/himself uncomfortable with the attunement, is it possible to cut the connection?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Yes if the person feels uncomfortable for whatever reason they can choose to stop, every one has free will.
Personally I would choose someone who you are comfertable with and know very well. That way you feel better about the attunement.
I wouldnt suggest to stop in the middle of an attunement though, it would be like stuck in limbo between levels of energy, it wouldn't make you feel particulary well.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Thanks Valura - so you say that disengaging from attunement is as easy as the attunement itself?

The problem with "free will" in general is, that it appears to be as such to the individual, but not to the one outside.

Maybe you would be so kind to explain, how a dis-attunement works?


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:ohhh no I didnt mean that... I dont know anything of a 'dis-attunement' Its my understanding that once you have chosen to work with your energy and raise it...thats it~ its done... You can choose not to use the energy to its full potential but it will always be at that raised level.

I thought you meant 'during' the attunement.

smile

Free your heart from hatred.
Free your mind from worries.
Live simply.
Give more.
Expect less.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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FireTom


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Total posts: 6650
Posted: Written by: Valura

Its my understanding that once you have chosen to work with your energy and raise it...thats it~ its done... You can choose not to use the energy to its full potential but it will always be at that raised level.




confused What exactly are you implicating?

Reiki the only way to use your energy to it's full potential? umm

And still: How about dis-attunement? I personally do not know any "true" Reiki-Master... I'd be happy about input as I met people who were even suffering from the "higher" energy levels that Reiki gave them.

If there is no escape hatch - I even have to strongly advise people NOT to get "attuned"...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted: Written by: FireTom


I have had my experiences with some people using Reiki - some of those experiences were very negative. I have no judgement on the practise itself and am not seeking for one. All I would want to do is gather informations. If I'm not able to put this in appropriate words- please excuse me (English is my second language) - I have deep respect for people who are looking for to utilize their time and energy to heal themselves and others.

A friend who is very much into meditation and energy work has told me 2 years ago, that she was attuned to Reiki (way back) but discovered that the practice and the connection to this energy was weaker than the energy that one could develop from her/himself - which would require more effort. To quote her: "How can you bring out your own light, if you are blinded by another? To overlay your own energy with one that is not coming from within, but from without does not help the individuals personal development." She stated it took her quite a long time and much effort to get disconnected from ReiKi again.

Please let me ask you:

I personally have not much information about the founder of ReiKi, nor do I have much comparison in "energy work" - but I notice quite a number of people who let themselves get attuned (without gathering any informations about the subject beforehand and therefore) have no idea, what they are stepping into. Also some of them do have little stability - due to early age and/or experience. Becoming attuned gets much like a fashion, trendy that is - especially in India and other places in Asia, where western tourists take this as their "asian part of the journey"...

Now as some of the individuals are either very young and/or not prepared for the "powertool" wink they get at hand - the danger of abuse is imminent. Even though practicioners say that it's impossible to do harm with the energy, IMO any form of energy can be used to harm someone - how/why would that be different with ReiKi?

Also some practicioners "draw" those symbols on every forehead they come across - without caring whether or not the individual is interested in receiving (that energy). Isn't that intrusive?

 Written by: Website

"(...)Since the symbols have no real power without the attunement, it is better that they be kept secret until the class. In addition, if a person is shown a Reiki symbol without the benefit of the attunement that empowers it, they may incorrectly believe they have Reiki and not bother to take a class, thus missing the real experience of Reiki and losing the benefit of its healing power. (...)



Why so, if there is no use of the symbols without attunement? Must this practice not make people either curious or suspicious of the practice itself?

Where is the energy, that one receives through attunement with ReiKi different from the universal or individual energy that every person as a human being holds?

I understand the way to provide scholarship, as (for example) it's sometimes potentially dangerous in martial arts classes to teach the technique without the adjactent and necessary practice of meditation. Is there any meditation "practice" mandatory for ReiKi-scholars?

In your case you didn't waste much time to advance to the next level, potentially harming yourself wink Isn't "usually" one obliged to wait for about a year before moving to the 2nd level? Also in this year, isn't one required to refrain from certain things, i.e. substances to purify mind and body? And I wonder how this might or might not be verified by the "Master" or even considered by the scholar himself.

As I said I observed some very different situations whilst in India and some even take attunements (1st, 2nd, 3rd level) as a very reasonable source of income...




I suppose its all about the intention... energy comes in so many different forms and can really only be as powerful as the channel, for eample you could hardly channel a raging river through a straw, it just wouldnt work, the energy would be too powerful, and the straw couldnt handle the force...I see us as the straws... the more understanding and knowledge and experince we have with the energy the wider our straws become.

As for your friend...good for her concentrating on her own light to help othgers, thats a beautiful thing.

I dont believe that Reiki would 'blind' her energy but would more compliment it...suchs as peaches and cream....alone they are wonderful and sweet in their own right...but together...a taste sensation! wink wink

I do believe that a lot of our strength and personal spiritual power comes from within, but I also believe that there is an amazing source of love energy that we may tapp into for helping others and to help relay the energy to those who need it. ubblove

"Also some practicioners "draw" those symbols on every forehead they come across - without caring whether or not the individual is interested in receiving (that energy). Isn't that intrusive?"

yes absolutly and totally thats intrusive, and they have no right to be doing that if people are not wanting that energy, that is a direct violation of free will~ which is one of the major spiritual laws.

As for the abuse of energy by the young or inexperienced~ I believe if the intent isnt pure the level of energy isnt there, so it would be very difficult to use reiki to hurt someone.

Energy works on a vibrational level and the higer the vibration the more pure the energy is, people who use low level energy (that vibrates slower) are the ones who can harm people with that energy...Reiki is very high, higher than our usual energy, hence the raising of energy through attunement...

hmmm how else can I put it? angels are extremley high vibrational energies and very pure...poltergiests are very low level eneties and cause harm and malice.

I must admit I was NOT ready for the 2nd level attunement, and I got very sick~ this was a major lesson for me and something that I should have been warned about from my master who raced me through the levels.
With the knowledge I have now I most certainly would have waited...but I got through my energy sickness and learnt a valuable lesson. I will not allow any of my students to advance that quickly...We all make mistakes and hopefully take lessons from them...such is the nature of life.
I hope I have answered some of your questions..


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted: Written by: FireTom


 Written by: Valura

Its my understanding that once you have chosen to work with your energy and raise it...thats it~ its done... You can choose not to use the energy to its full potential but it will always be at that raised level.




confused What exactly are you implicating?

Reiki the only way to use your energy to it's full potential? umm

And still: How about dis-attunement? I personally do not know any "true" Reiki-Master... I'd be happy about input as I met people who were even suffering from the "higher" energy levels that Reiki gave them.

If there is no escape hatch - I even have to strongly advise people NOT to get "attuned"...



Wha???...

I feel as if Im being misunderstood. Im not implying ANYTHING, what I am saying is that if you choose to raise your energy level then go through the attunement, then you are attuned to that higher level... thats it... its raised. You can choose NOT to use that level of energy, but its always there if you want it.

In no shape or form did I once imply that Reiki is the only way to use your energy to its full potential.
That would be close minded of me.

How are these people suffering? confused


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Valura, first of all I would like to point out that I have a good feeling communicating with you about this topic. Thanks for being there and answering my questions. I might and very likely have misunderstood you - sorry for that.

To clarify my own position:

I met people who received severe "hallucinations" (I just want use this wording right now) and felt incapable of handling the experiences that they felt like drowning in. They started seeing ghosts and all kinds of creatures (not saying that these don't exist at all, but saying that if one feels deeply threatened by them, then attunement - after which they started seing them - created suffering)...

All this - and unfortunately your experience adds to this opinion - takes me to the opinion that people are acting irresponsible (Reiki master or scholar) by

a) intruding other peoples energies and lives without being asked
b) not setting up a proper "code of ethics" - like other healing "professions" do
c) not setting up a proper procedure (like for say demanding or recommending meditation) - which to me is astonishing as I have different experiences with ALL asian arts...

Maybe the conclusion is that Reiki might got corrupted (but this I will verify by reading the history and writings of it's founder and developer)... See in India I even overheard a conversation of two guys: "Hey can you do some Reiki on her, so she ends up in my bed tonight?" Point is that this may even work... umm

People these days (especially from the West) are very unfamiliar with "supernatural energies and powers" - one reason is the denial of existence of such powers in the first place. They are very attracted to these energies. But this makes them also very prone to abuse and exploitation by people who are using their energies for a personal purpose.

Once again: to me energy is energy - I pretty much compare it to the energy of the sun. It can create life, but it can also take it. It's the same source that creates flourishing and devastation. Energy itself doesn't care much WHO and WHY it is used.

As for personal "karma" I would certainly NOT advise any ABuse of ANY kind of power - but this depends on personal choice. I personally received something that might be classified as a bad Reiki. This guy "vibrated" on a VERY high level and is (IMHO) abusing his energy to a degree that is just mindblowing. But who am I to judge? I dunno, maybe he's doing good and I just can't see the true purpose behind it? Maybe it's only and exclusively through suffering that humans grow?

All what you and others are saying about "pure intent" and similar (to me) goes into the direction of fairy tales. I personally might have a different approach to life and even though for me those archetypes of "good and bad" do exist, it doesn't matter much. Darkness is the absence of light - nothing more, nothing less. But also without light, no shadow - therefore I come to the conclusion that one does not exist without and that they depend on each other. If ther would be no light, or the idea of light, there would not be any draw towards it, would it? Someone who doesn't know peaches and cream doesn't long for them, others are even allergic to diary... wink

I dunno whether I come across properly - I personally LOVE pixies LOTS and have NO affinity to orks (hence I regard them poor creatures and pity them). But by pretending that everything is purple and therefore blurring reality, it just gives much more space to "the evil side" to act.

No judgement - just descerning...

Still my question remains:

Is there a way that someone, who received attunement can withdraw from the connection? And if there is, which one?

If not - I personally would even advise people to stay away from Reiki. Can you understand, why I am saying this?

Your example (straw and stream) is a perfect one, but leads me to a different conclusion: It's arrogant to turn a straw into a position to channel a stream (and especially if the straw has no idea what stream it is channeling and is (kept) weak). Reiki seems to be the "perfect shortcut" to gain power. And power always carries the potential of abuse (depending on the person holding it).

Look at mankind in general and the present situation: we have incredible potential to do good on this planet - hence some (and unfortunately those with loads of power) decide to abuse it and rape, destroy and exploit the resources they have at hand, endangering the survival of our host.

All this does make me not very confident in handing over a (spiritual) gun to every baby and then let them roam free and I find it everyone irresponsible who is advocating attunement without proper practice and preparation.

Further: People have believed to do the right thing and in this intent even killed others - how can you be so sure, that the energy you are using is "all good"?

ubblove and ubbidea to all

tOM


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:I am saddened to see that you feel "People these days (especially from the West) are very unfamiliar with "supernatural energies and powers"
Thats a large generalisation. I am a 'westener' and I sure do understand a whole lot of things types of things... even if I do say so myself.

I have answered your question of the "disattunement" twice now so I am no longer going to go into that.

"I met people who received severe "hallucinations" (I just want use this wording right now) and felt incapable of handling the experiences that they felt like drowning in. They started seeing ghosts and all kinds of creatures (not saying that these don't exist at all, but saying that if one feels deeply threatened by them, then attunement - after which they started seing them - created suffering)..."

Im very sad to hear of this experience, but Im very sorry to say I have trouble believing that Reiki caused this. I would have to look closely at the details of that particular person,and situation before I would say Reiki caused anything like that. The people who may be experiencing such things may have a whole many reasons for this, family history, an overactive third eye charkra etc etc

You say that to you energy is energy... this says to me that you dont believe that there different types of energy is that correct? Are you putting ALL energy in one basket?

Does this mean that there is karma, but no positive karma or negitive karma?
No good or bad?
Heaven or hell?
No dualitys?
No balance? Then you go on to talk about the 'evil side'
Im having a lot of trouble understanding.

"Further: People have believed to do the right thing and in this intent even killed others - how can you be so sure, that the energy you are using is "all good"?"

I have worked with energy for so long that I know the difference between positive and negitive energy. And even the someone who is beginning on their journey has the intuition and gut feeling to know the difference between a "good" feeling and a "bad"feeling.

"Hey can you do some Reiki on her, so she ends up in my bed tonight?"

This is disgusting and Im deeply sorry that you have heard that. I can tell you right now that the person who said that has NO understanding of reiki and NO amount of Reiki would make a girl want to sleep with that person.
You can rest assured that the girl was in no danger of being coaxed into bed with Reiki.

Reiki in my honest opinion is NOT a short cut to power, There are attunements in place for a person to learn and get used to the energy... Masters must make the decision that their pupil understands the energy and are ready to progress, and the scholars must also take it on themselves to be ready to learn. It is known as personal responsability and is a fundamental understanding of spirituality.
I, as the pupil, understood a lot about energy when I was attuned to second level reiki. My master had very high expectations of me and pushed me too far too fast. Perhaps that was irresponsiable, but not inheriantly 'evil', and I threw up until I could handle the energy. Made me stronger and taught me a lesson. This in turn makes me very sure as a master, when attuning someone new, that they are ready.


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Ry
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Ry

Gromit's Humble Squire
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 4496
Posted:I tend to agree with DrBoo's fiance.

I personally believe the benefits of Reiki are often confused with the benefits of tied in activities like breathing control/awareness, a meditative state, relaxation and/or shutting out of extraneous stimuli, being in company one enjoys.

I also think the placebo effect plays a big part in it as well. I once heard about someone receiving 'remote Reiki' from her Reiki healer over the phone- I think expecting one to accept that Reiki works that way is pushing it a bit.

But. If it works for you, I'm not going to say it doesn't.

Acupuncture, complementary (as opposed to alternative) medicine, meditation, breathing control, the power of a positive outlook- I've got room for all that. Reiki.. see above.


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Posted:Better post these now, they keep getting larger as more people contribute to what I want to say.



bounce bounce2 bounce

offtopic

bounce2 sowhat bounce



I would like to end my day (and I carefully started crafting this about an hour ago) by sharing my own personal spiritual, um, powers if you will (energy for you quantum physicists out there). I've recently discovered one of the eight mystic perfections achieved by the practice of yoga: anima: to become smaller than the smallest. Unfortunately this only happens in the smallest amount of time possible. But what a rush riding on the currents of air and viewing yourself and your surroundings from a different perspective. I could choose to attempt to practice this again, however I would not be growing spiritually. From the knowledge Ive gained it would also be decreasing my good energy. I will however, cherish the moment and begin to find ways to reduce the negative energy in my life, maybe Ill even perform 10,000 good deeds. Ive fed all my pets today, plants are watered, it adds up.



People who get their masters degrees (at least in certain circles) are told that they cant go back, the knowledge is just too overwhelming, and it is their choice to go even further and get their doctorate.



 Written by: firetom

Maybe it's only and exclusively through suffering that humans grow?

One of the most recent ultimate truths that Ive been contemplating: everything you love, your parents, your pets, your friends, will eventually hurt you in a deeply profound way at some point in time. Yet you cant stop loving. Those that do are the ones that would abuse their power, become blinded by their own illusions.



 Written by: firetom

how can you be so sure, that the energy you are using is "all good"



Wisdom!


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Posted:Another thread of Firetoms distracted me from reading everything as carefully as I would like to (I was deeply touched by Vularas experiences).


 Written by: vulara

what I am saying is that if you choose to raise your energy level then go through the attunement, then you are attuned to that higher level...


I will agree with Valura. Raising your energy levels, although it is phat, also carries a weight of responsibility.

 Written by: vulara


Does this mean that there is karma, but no positive karma or negitive karma?
No good or bad?
Heaven or hell?
No dualitys?
No balance? Then you go on to talk about the 'evil side'
Im having a lot of trouble understanding.



Let me quote a sutra that has led me to further my spiritual path:
Both striving for the outer world as well as for the inner void condemn us to entangled lives.
Just calmly see that all is One, and by themselves false views will go.
Attempts to stop activity will fill you with activity.
Remaining in duality, you'll never know of unity.
And not to know this unity lets conflict lead you far astray.
When you assert that things are real you miss their true reality.
But to assert that things are void also misses reality.
The more you talk and think on this the further from the truth you'll be.
Cut off all useless thought and words And there's nowhere you cannot go.

That is just part of it, if anyone wants more on the extensive research Im doing, Ive found plenty of eBooks and free downloads that I would be more than happy to pass on.


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Valura
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 6391
Posted:Ry do you believe that you have to be open to the energy for it to work? confused

TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"

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Ry
GOLD Member since Feb 2005

Ry

Gromit's Humble Squire
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Total posts: 4496
Posted:And that is- as differentiated from being open to the placebo effect? It's a grey area and I'm not particularly fussed with trying to prove that it does, or does not work. You can't empirically separate the benefits of Reiki from the benefits of the other things one unwittingly does to prepare him/herself to receive treatment.



On the other hand. If a person has gastric pains, antacid makes it feel better. And the same applies to the relationships between various illnesses or injuries and corresponding medical treatment, i.e. working whether or not the receiver is open to it or not (of course, if you welcome the treatment, it works better. Or so they say.)



Regarding 'being open to the energy for it to work', that's what they say about faith and religion, and in some cases, God (who saves those who believe, apparently).



And to that I, again, say- if it works for you, I'm not going to say it doesn't.


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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:Reading your post gives me cold rush/sweat and great discomfort... Sorry to have offended you in any way, Valura - that was not my intention at all... hug

I am trying to find answers to my questions and at the same time raise a little bit of awareness. Certainly I am NOT brushing all Reiki-practicioners over the same edge, how could I?

My question however remains unanswered, or IMU unsufficient:

 Written by:


I dont know anything of a 'dis-attunement' Its my understanding that once you have chosen to work with your energy and raise it...thats it~ its done... You can choose not to use the energy to its full potential but it will always be at that raised level.




Or are you referring to this as an answer to "disattunement"? umm

Yes, I say energy is energy and I stand to it - social conditioning as to what is "good and bad" doesn't count (at least not for me right here and now)... You yourself put it this way: it's the intent that counts...

And I even have some gut feeling as if I HAVE to oppose that and do not go further than saying that:

No it's certainly NOT the intent that counts - maybe it is for the person who does it, but certainly NOT for the person who is receiving (a mal-treatment).

The (family of the) person dying on the operation table (for instance) does not care a single bit whether the diagnosis was made in best faith or not. I helps a little to know that the death was not intentional, but that's it!

I am happy for you that you can clearly destinct between "good and bad" - there seem to be a few people here on the board who say the same about themselves and I am prone to envy them, as it surely gives some self-esteem... Personally I am very careful with this and rather like to question myself twice before I am so "convinced". Deception is easier than you may think... And many have been very sure that they did "the right thing" when in fact they were doing opposite...

If learning is an experience, there is no such thing as bad or good karma - this belongs to the world of duality - right. A child pulls a cat by the tail, violently. It doesn't have the sensation of empathy, yet. Over time it will learn what pain really is and that inflicting pain onto others is causing a bad effect. Did the child amass bad karma, by pulling the tail (without knowledge)? Or is it the intent that counts? The cat learned to stay far away from little children (generally) who are reaching for it's tail, or to teach those children a lesson... Now the mother sees the cat growling and hitting her little one, screams in horror and gives the cat a proper kick...

The world doesn't work 2-dimensional I know and I am very careful with people who see it just in black and white.

 Written by:


This is disgusting and Im deeply sorry that you have heard that. I can tell you right now that the person who said that has NO understanding of reiki and NO amount of Reiki would make a girl want to sleep with that person.You can rest assured that the girl was in no danger of being coaxed into bed with Reiki.




Well that was where she ended up that night shrug

As I said, Westerners (yes, in general terms) are (less) aware of the presence of and the ways that "supernatural powers" work - as opposed to Asians (again in general terms). I stand to this statement, but maybe my specification makes it less offensive and more digestible. I am sorry, but can only speak from my very own rendered experience by watching people do offerings and ceremonies every day.

"Faith healers", Gurus, Yogis - name them - are a common part of the Asean culture, therefore people are less amazed by their appearance. In India they see them every day on the road, all over Asia there are festivals held in favour of the gods (even this is a term that Westerners - in general - have certainly a different understanding of)...

I don't understand why I have to argument this to you, who is experienced in the field...

Somebody comes into the room and does some telekinesis on somebody else, who has zero experience with it... what you guess the reaction is? Either horror, or interest - I'd say - depending on the level of energy released.

Please tell me, how long has someone to work with energies to know the difference between a good and a bad gut feeling?

A few questions remain:

1) Can one get "dis-attuned" and how?
2) What is the code of ethics for Reiki-practicioners?
3) Is there an everydays practice for Reiki practicioners? And if yes, which one?
4) How long has someone to work with this energy (or take a scholarship) to be able to administer a proper "healing"?

[provocative statement:]Otherwise this appears to me like PADI: within ~ 4 months (and a few bucks later) I can become a PADI Dive-Instructor, guide and tech other people how to dive... which for some funny reason causes more damage than good and is (IMHO) even dangerous to the environment AND their inhabitants (i.e. coral reefs). said this as levelled "Rescue Diver"[/provocative statement]


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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FireTom


Stargazer


Total posts: 6650
Posted:*bump* now as to round things up I've been pondering upon and inquiring into the subject again... why? because I met ppl who are Raiki masters and where I have no chills whatsoever.

Even my girlfriend is a Reiki master and practitioner... I have been amazed that I don't have any of that neck-clamping feeling.

So one information I got is that "Reiki is a universal healing power" (great news, however) and so many people want to use it, without really knowing what this energy is, where it comes from and what it does.

Next there are people who just use Reiki due to their personal power issue and, well... just run around the planet to draw symbols on other ppls foreheads in order to prove something.

And lately a friend of mine told me: if Reiki can be regarded like water and the individual like a channel, then it only depends on the purity of the pipe (or channel) to determine the quality (and attributes) of the water.

To conclude, I'd say it really depends on the person who is performing Reiki to give me chills and neck-clamps or to make me feel comfy.

IF you decide to use Reiki within your personal healing path, consider to practice meditation (before and along) and refrain from leisure substance abuse... and please don't heal everyone, who is not even asking to get healed in the first place.

Thanks for watching sunny


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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