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Pooh-Bah
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 6th Jan 2005
Total posts: 1785
Posted:I had the worst ever start to the year, a friend of mine overdosed. It was the most terrifying night of my life. Thankfully he was unsuccessful in his attempt.

What i want to know is peoples opinion on what should be done to prevent suicide. Should people be left to take their own life or is it ok to do everything you can to stop them?

I am asking this because in the UK there seems that there is nothing in place to stop people taking their lives

My friend had been drinking lots all night whilst on anti-depressants, then decided it was a good idea to get some cocaine off someone they had never met. The combination of drink and drugs turned him to something i never thought him capable of, he got really and agressive, angry and upset. The situation soon got very out of control and it took 4 policemen pinning him to the ground to stop him hurting himself or other people. This behaviour was completely out of character and i am assuming that it was the combination of drink and drugs, combined with his depression that caused it to escalate into such a crazy situation.

Once on the ground it was clear that he was in need of medical help, he was really ill.

The police wouldn't help as he had technically done nothing to warrant an arrest. They wanted him to go to hospital but they could not force him and he didnt not want to go. He was a danger to himself and others and they could/would do nothing to stop him. He kept saying he was going to kill himself and i really don't think the police were taking it seriously enough.

Eventually I managed to get him in to my car and took him to the hospital where he ran away. After a couple of hours of trying to find him and get help for him, i managed to get him home, hoping that he would calm down once at home. Unfortunately he ran upstairs, locked himself in the bathroom and overdosed. We had to axe down the door to get to him but he had jumped out of the window. It took another hour to find him and get him back to the house, by which time he was looking really really ill and had no idea what was going on. I called an ambulance but he refused to let them help him. There was nothing that the paramedics could do because he was refusing treatment.

Eventually i managed to get him into my car and i drove him to hospital, he went into the hospital but was still refusing treatment. Because he is an adult and refusing treatment there was nothing that the doctors could do. It wasn't until he was so out of it that he was barely concious and me shouting at him that he allowed the doctors to help him.

Correct me if i am wrong but i am of the understanding that in America, if someone is trying to kill themselves, the doctors are allowed to intervene and do everything they can to stop them.

In the UK it seems that there is nothing that can be done to stop someone killing themselves unless they decide that they want help.

So, is it right to intervene and stop someone from taking their own life? Should there be laws in place that allow the doctors/police to take over and try and prevent tragedy?

I'm sorry if this is rambling and difficult to read, i am still really really shaken up by this and finding it really difficult to think straight. My friend remembers very little of the evening but i remember every moment. I have never been so scared in all my life.


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Lost83spy
Lost83spy

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!
Location: Somewhere, out there...
Member Since: 14th Sep 2005
Total posts: 587
Posted:Yip, no-one is in the right frame of mind when they commit suicide. My friend's sister said that my friend was definately not herself the day she passed away. But she just thought it was bad mood swings.

I dunno exactly what South African law says about suicide, but I do know that medical aids wont cover for suicide related deaths, and as a result, only certain hospitals will treat such cases. This I find extremely stupid. When my friend was rushed to the hospital, they turned her away because their medical aid would not cover the expenses due to the fact that the problem was suicide related. She had to be taken to a hospital which was nearly on the other side of town! I'm not saying that it wouldve helped her condition if she had gotten to a hospital sooner, but what happens when its a case of overdose, where a person maybe can be saved?


It may be your sole purpose in life to serve as a warning to others

Founder and Official leader of the Curby Clan

*Owner of Brenn*

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Written by: astar2

I know I am banned, But this thread is unsettling me and I again, follow the pattern of evadeing bans to make a post.



Astar - apart from your post which I can certainly follow up on hug - (again in public my question) why are you "banned" confused ?????????????

Committing suicide is a very strange phenomenon and there are infinite triggers for that. To take "the gift of life" into your own hand and throw it away in a single instant - this process is very complex.

This is why I advise anyone not just to step in themselves to try and rescue, but to have professional help administered. True, that some "maddoctors" are pretty mad themselves, yet there are good ones out there and I would really have a shoot feeling in my gut when I tried to help someone and this one gets down anyways... How could I stand my own look in the mirror - knowing that I haven't consulted, or insisted on consulting professional couselling?

@Lostspy: eek eek eek this is what I violently dislike about this age - turning away patients from hospitals because the insurance wouldn't cover the expenses?

We regard our civilisation "progressed"? How so?!? If such censored happens EVERY DAY mad2 censored confused frown ubbloco


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: Lost83spy

Yip, no-one is in the right frame of mind when they commit suicide. My friend's sister said that my friend was definately not herself the day she passed away. But she just thought it was bad mood swings.

I dunno exactly what South African law says about suicide, but I do know that medical aids wont cover for suicide related deaths, and as a result, only certain hospitals will treat such cases. This I find extremely stupid. When my friend was rushed to the hospital, they turned her away because their medical aid would not cover the expenses due to the fact that the problem was suicide related. She had to be taken to a hospital which was nearly on the other side of town! I'm not saying that it wouldve helped her condition if she had gotten to a hospital sooner, but what happens when its a case of overdose, where a person maybe can be saved?


What happened to the hippocratic oath in South Africa?


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:i am wondering too - and also about the uk shrug

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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janice
janice

Member

Member Since: 3rd Jan 2006
Total posts: 34
Posted:those that want to die succeed. those that aren't sure live to see another day.

in goth we trust

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:In a society that believes in reinkarnation, committing suicide is totally pointless - back the next day with more suffering...

Death comes along with the experience of life, it's inevitable. I have been to the edge myself - but my curiosity alone, about how the story continues saved me. All in all there's something to live for. And being at the point where nothing really matters - it can only go uphill from there...

Helping is a great thing to do - hence if the (amateur) helper is emotionally involved in this, there is danger ahead.

a) in a friendship one might not be clear enough and not demand the friend to step up necessary reflection and actions to work on the underlying problem to solve it.
b) in a relationship one is very obliged to perpetuate it - as maybe one becomes the reason for another attempt if the relationship ends, or one runs out of energy.

This is all that I wanted to indicate - sorry that I couldn't find the appropriate words or didn't take enough time to put them into this context. shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:Lots of people who don't really "want" to die do actually " succeed" at killing themselves!! Particularily youth! ( Who often have an undeveloped concept of death to begin with.) There have been personal journals suicide notes and conversations revealed after their deaths that spoke of their actual intentions, some of which were very very confused ( ill ? ) . Others lived, but ended up brain damaged or otherwise seriously effected.

The reverse is also true, many people that attempt suicide did want to die( at least at the time) but tried to chose peaceful non violent non messy methods, which generally have less predicatable results.

If your brain is ill, can you actually know what you really want?

I think we would be best not to judge whose depression is serious enough to place them at risk, and whose is only " saddness" or selfishness. Perhaps every cry for help should be acknowledged and not judged or dismissed. We simply do not know what is in anothers mind, and can be very very mistaken in assuming we do, or even that they do...

One does not need to cater to what is perceived as emotional manipulation, but can still take care to see the individual is directed to appropriate help. That is why there are suicide support lines, crisis lines , counsellors etc. Even what seems to be a grab at atention should be directed to counselling and support, as that behaviour is obviously not coming from a healthy place.

I was also really sad to hear of someone turned away from neccessary medical care. Heartbreaking. Disgusting. Hope something can be done to change that!

hug


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by:


those that want to die succeed. those that aren't sure live to see another day.





I can barely believe the total lack of understanding towards the reality of suicide displayed on this thread.

Many who sincerely attempt to kill themselves, fail to do so. In particular, a good portion of those using pharmacutical overdoses will wake in hospital, hours or days later, with permanently damaged liver/kidneys.

Killing yourself effectivly and relatively painlessly (as many would-be suicides are trying to do), is considerably more difficult to achieve than most people realise.

And, many of those who, in contrast, are using it as a 'cry for help' will miscalcualate, and end up dead.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:OWD, thats exactly what I was trying to get at! Thanks for putting it so clearly!

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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FireTom
Stargazer

Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.



Translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.

In controversy to:

hypocrisy "The practice of professing beliefs, feelings, or virtues that one does not hold or possess; falseness.
An act or instance of such falseness."


shrug


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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GothFrogette
GothFrogette

grumpy poorly froggy
Location: Nuneaton
Member Since: 10th Oct 2004
Total posts: 3999
Posted:i am soooo sorry you have been through all of this i really am. no one needs to deal with stuff like that but as you can see you have loads of support and help here on HOPhug hug hug hug hug hug hug
i am affraid i have what seems to be a harsh point of view as i hold no sympathy for anyone who wants to end their lives and believe they have every right to if they wish. the reason why i am like this is that i have been the "Supportive" person on far too many occasions and i got sick and tired of them attempitng suicde that it did get to the point where i wish they would just get it out of the way and done with. no doubt i shall get a bashing from this but its my opinion.
the best advice i can give you is bring up your concern with their doc (If you know them) and leave them to it. its far more detrimantal to your health and will effect you for the worst. Your a great person and a fantastic friend you take care of you and you know where i am.... just PM me hug hug


Life's too short to worry about where you put your marshmallows

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