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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:I serached a bit in the forum, and I could not find anything about this.

I began spinning (first poi, the staff and doubles) almost 4 years ago. I never danced before, I was the "I don't dance, I don't like dancing, I cannot dance" kind of guy. I used to juggle, but by then I was already bored by balls and clubs (I still do some contact, though); no dancing there, either.
The first months of learning were just about new tricks, learning as a juggler. After a while I realized I liked the most people that did not do A LOT of things, but that were smooth, that had style.
And began to work on that: no new moves for maybe 6 or 8 months. Just becoming smooth (I now know I was working on planes and routines; I did not, then)

And then it hit me: I was dancing.
I really was, and I loved it, and I was not bad at it.
I got asked were I learnt, and so on.
And wanted to get better.

I have been working mostly on THAT, in the last years. And now I am looking for more: I'd like to study a bit of dancing: to know where to put my legs, to find a different way of being smooth.
Now: I did some capoeira, and now I am practicing contact improvisation. I love them, but I am not sure they are what I need.
The question is: is there anyone else that began taking dance lessons to improve the spinning-firedancing? What worked better?
I know there are quite many spinners that got dance lessons in previous incarnations: any ideas? hints? What should a spinner look for?

(If I manage to learn the split, like I am AGAIN trying to, I WILL try ballet lessons, for a while; or at least modern dance)


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:*ew. bellydancing? what do you consider "modern?"*
Well, it's not what I consider "modern": for what I know, classical dance is the one until 18th century; modern dance is the one until (broadly) Isadora Duncan, and then there is contemporary dance (so, contact impro is a form of contemporary).
Then there are all kinds of folk dances, ethnical dances, and whatever; and all the pop dances.
It's not my distinction, I have been explained it like this; I actually have problems thinking that "modern" is older than "contemporary"; and maybe now there is postmodern dance, who know.


*i'd seriously go with "raver", aka "gliding", aka "heel/toe". hands down winner for me. you get turns whenever you want them and can possibly move into more "lock and pop" gliding which gives huge contrast between the body motions and smooth poi spinning. *

Yep, I have looked into them. I actually use them (even if my gliding is NOT that good) while dancing, sometime; but not while spinning.
(Really: fluid AND spinning? I did fluid AND contact, I mean contact ball, but not spinning; I'll think about it)

I'm downloading the video just now, anyway.

*also, some general jungle jump-up movement works if you've got the energy. i don't know what the jungle/DnB scene is like in italy, but i can link some more vids when i get home. *

I guess it's not so strong, I don't have ny clue about what is it.
Well, I'll be in Berlin in 3 weeks, I'll look about it.
But: if _jumpup_ is about jumping, is not for me. I gave up jumping in capoeira, too, and my joints BEGGED me to stop trying aerials and mortals; so. No jumping, if I can avoid it.

*boys bellydancing. pfft. don't make me link to dantana's bellydancing vid for contrast to the heel/toe. ubblol (this is ... well, mostly.. in jest. bellydance if you want to. just don't complain to me if you get laughed at for your efforts.)*
Dunno: if a man bellydancing has the same effect on women of a woman bellydancing has on me, I DEFINITELY want to go for it. Now that I know I won't be just thrown out with screams of "what are you doing here, you pervert".
And if they do, I'll point them to Arashi and mcp.

*Ever since I first picked up a pair of poi I've been after the answer to this question and after talking to quite a few dancers, I've come to the conclusion that there is no real definitive answer. Most people seem to promote the style of dance they're into, even if it's not really applicable to poi ( like tango ) however I don't see this as a bad thing.*

I don't think there is a DEFINITE aswer to anything (expept 42, that's a definitve answer, of course); but there are a lot of personal answer, and all of the make sense.
And: I mixed tango and poi, there are a couple of moves I worked on for THAT reason, and I love to use gotan project for music.

*Speaking as a fellow "non dancer" I do believe that there is a secret to movement and eventually I hope to tap into it, but one thing's for sure at this point in time, I need my toys in order to feel comfortable with this whole dance thing. I did manage a little freehand glowsticking last month*

Yep, for ages I NEEDED my toys to be confortable.
Actually, I did some performance without toys last summer, just dancing. People seemed to like it; that's why I want to delve deeper and learn more about dancing, the naked one.

*It might help to examine your own motivations for posing this question, I did and found I had a few.*

Ok: my motivations are "easy".
I never danced. Poi (and staff) taught me to dance, and a form of Wu-Wei (the principle of tao and taiji quan: action without action, of not forcing). And I realized I loved.
So: now I want to became a better dancer without toys.
But, still, I'd like to stay in the path, I don't want to go to the dark side. I'd like to keep the toys and the dance.

*The first was to get a grip on the whole "being a performer" thing, which was something I'd had zero experience with so I just swallowed my nervousness and joined a professional group with lots of work. We're still working, New Years eve, I'll be the guy painted gold, wearing white, and spinning in some sort of Shakespearean procession. Did this make me a better dancer? I don't think so but it definitely affected my spinning style and taught me to feel more confident with cheezy TA DA......type moves. I learned to embrace my inner poser.*

That's great, actually.
This summer I was with a troup in Sicily, and I volunteered to be Adam in a just dancing part, SINCE they told me we had to be naked (come on, what would have been my OTHER chance to dance naked in a public square, in Sicily?). But then, they changed their mind and we had to PRETEND to be naked, but dressed (I mean, dance pants). So in the end I was using my sock poi, with black light.
Who knew Adam was created by a God on stilts, and had poi from the first day?

*Another motivation I found I had was balance. Sometimes I found I got so lost in the spinning moment I was tripping over my own feet, and I still do sometimes. I think the secret to sorting this out lies in tai chi, but I have yet to study it. For performance based spinning I'm learning to move between a series of stable stances. I'm not moving as quickly as I'd like, but at least I haven't embarassed myself yet.*

I don't like it quick.
For the balance, and the transitions, and the stances, I think taiji quan is perfect.


*I was also concerned about positioning my upper body, I sort of had this picture in my head that I looked like a hunchback when I was spinning ( the antithesis of Yuta ) and I found that after bouncing this idea off several dancres, that maybe I was being a little to self critical. Most dancers agreed that studying any form of dance would help with this, this being the whole "up" thing. Still working on it.........but "giant" moves come in handy here.*

Ok, I worked on my upper body for years, and just when i thought I pinned it down and was OK, my dancing friends told me I was forgetting about the legs. I (from waist up) was dancing, they (the legs) were walking and getting in the way.
So. Time for REAL trainig. I guess.

*Good luck with your quest, and if you find THE answer, please, let me know*

I don't think there is THE answer, there must be many different answers, and all are THE asnwer.
(ok, ok, too much Zen recently).


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:argh I haven't been online and this has turned into a really nice discussion.

Going back to the top - main posture/strength stuff comes primarily from horseriding and free-party stomping biggrin - the 'dance' route is yet unfollowed *sigh*

I don't like the bolt-on dancing. But I do think different dances will teach you to utilise your body and it's ability to move in new ways that will integrate with your spinning. That's why Arashi looks so smooth and confident in the way he moves.
My main reason for wanting to learn some sort of dance was just to challenge myself in ways I found less natural, and therefore achieve deliberate movement/shapes while i spin rather than what you see on my vids which is just what comes naturally. (incidentally I'm well pleased with the christmas release that features some semi-moonwalking quite outta the blue lol!)

I did a bellydancing workshop this summer and i sucked. Though the isolation of different parts of the body seems not unlike the isolation necessary in a lot of modern 'liquid' styles and would definately be something I'd like to persue if i find the oppertunity. Similialry the hand/arm movements could translate into poi really nicely.

I think BellyDancing is your winner! biggrin


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr

Total posts: 4217
Posted:I don't dance as i spin, i kinda just dodge the flaming poi while exclaiming...

"nooo not the hair!" ubblol


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:Written by: TinklePants

I don't dance as i spin, i kinda just dodge the flaming poi while exclaiming...

"nooo not the hair!"



That's the point: you become good at "dancing", or smooth, when you dodge the flaming balls unselfconsciously, la "zen and the art of swordmanship".
(For males, the First Big Step is avoiding the FPHotG, Famous Painful Hin on the Groin; after THAT, all is downhill)


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:Written by: fluffy napalm fairy

I don't like the bolt-on dancing. But I do think different dances will teach you to utilise your body and it's ability to move in new ways that will integrate with your spinning. That's why Arashi looks so smooth and confident in the way he moves.


What's bolt-on dancing?
I guess it's obvious for everybody else, but it's the first time I read this expression.
Anyway: I think everything you do that increases your perception of the body, AND your confidence, improves the style.
(But I jut wanna learn DANCING now)

And: I was not at the EJC this summer (I was performing in Sicily), so everybody is telling me about Arashi and I have never seen him spinning: any video I can check?

Written by:
My main reason for wanting to learn some sort of dance was just to challenge myself in ways I found less natural, and therefore achieve deliberate movement/shapes while i spin rather than what you see on my vids which is just what comes naturally. (incidentally I'm well pleased with the christmas release that features some semi-moonwalking quite outta the blue lol!)



a) but the vids DO look nice
b) to work on what is not natural is, probably, the hardes AND the best thing one can do.
I always hate to do it ("come on, I am GOOD at certain things, why do I have to look like an idiot doing something I am not good at); and love it AFTERWARDS, when I realize it helped me develop a braoder image of what I am

Written by:
I did a bellydancing workshop this summer and i sucked. Though the isolation of different parts of the body seems not unlike the isolation necessary in a lot of modern 'liquid' styles and would definately be something I'd like to persue if i find the oppertunity. Similialry the hand/arm movements could translate into poi really nicely.



No, really? You tell me isolating things and bodyparts is difficult? Strange: it's SO EASYYYY in juggling biggrin
Still: I think that isolating is something you got to learn (I am speaking of the dance, now), to split movements AND THEM to put the together again in a more smooth and cohese way.
But. I also know (from juggling) that it will TOTALLY MESS my style for a while, before I manage I integrate it. Better to do it NOW, and be ready for the summer...

So, now: bellydancing, I am coming.

(So, maybe now this is THE answer; for me: for now)


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Tai chi jian might help, as it's tai chi with the added "jian" straight sword. So it teaches movement with a prop automatically. smile

I also know nick focuses on yoga and (yuta does too?) his advice on movement was "dropping circles down the spine".

Of course, when I tried that I ended up moving in slow uhm... clowny style like dervishly yers. wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: Aliosha

What's bolt-on dancing?
I guess it's obvious for everybody else, but it's the first time I read this expression.





I think maybe that fluffy was refering to my first post above. Cos it's a new term for me too.

Written by: Aliosha

And: I was not at the EJC this summer (I was performing in Sicily), so everybody is telling me about Arashi and I have never seen him spinning: any video I can check?




ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol

That would be toooo easy! Imagine, Arashi actually making a video and putting it on the internet! The world would end! Does anybody know how long has he been spinning for now? 30, 40 years? And in all that time, no videos... ubblol Well, apart from that missed step....

Just go watch an early michael jackson music video, and pretend he has blonde dreadlocks, then you will know how Arashi dances... wink (and that's only half sarcasm!)

Oh this post has been a bit useless...

Inbetween moving where the poi want me to go, smoothly, and sometimes doing skunk / nomad style little turning steps I don't do anything that's really 'against' the flow of the poi, or different to it. I might go practise popping while spinning... (thanks dut)

ubbrollsmile


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:Written by: fluffy napalm fairy

That's why Arashi looks so smooth and confident in the way he moves.



ubblove

*does a little dance around the living room*
Ros thinks i'm smoOOoth, Ros thinks i'm smoO0Ooth
ubbangel

VId: I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY INTEND TO HAVE SOME VID ONLINE WITHIN A FEW WEEKS. here's my schedule right now: juggle
the ONLY time you will catch me juggling wink biggrin


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:Written by: arashi

VId: I ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY INTEND TO HAVE SOME VID ONLINE WITHIN A FEW WEEKS. here's my schedule right now: juggle



Promise?


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:I said you LOOK smooth.......... tongue

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York

Total posts: 3354
Posted:ubblol



I agree with arashi though. I found that, you can work on moves, but when it comes right down to it, you don't really work on flowing them, and may rarely use them when you just have a fun unconcious spin. I like his ladder analogy and find it very helpful.



That being said, having been a skater, and thus having some dance training, I found that its applicable to spinning, and since you've blended dance styles already, you have your own unique form of movement. But then again, I did favor choreography and footwork over jumping when I just did interpretive (sp?).



Hey, I do tango! I've yet to do a goncho with me'poi...it'd hurt too much biggrin



and I must say, Ros is my flow idol meditate



and a mate of mine is a fantastic dancer, not only with poi, but also with other toys, and I know she has a background in gothdancing...so its more down to the person than anything else I'd guess



Someone can give you lessons, show you steps, but its your creativity and ease with them that makes the dance look smooth

EDITED_BY: fNi (1135824676)


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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alphalight
GOLD Member since Jan 2005

alphalight

member
Location: south germany

Total posts: 103
Posted:arashi u looked like a kid of the universe dancing with the stars when i saw u playing around in slowenia that night

sunny since that time i am looking for a teacher in dance but hm u left
to be honest we found a girl she is practising belly dancing since 8 years now and she is willing to teach us
so when u will be back we are ready for better understanding and feeling


peace and light

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:weeellllll i had many many juggling, fire spinning, drop-dead gorgeous goddesses to impress in slovenia... so the credit for my dancing goes to them ubblove ubbangel

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:well since we've brainwashed you all into belly dancing there's some good info sprinkled in this thread. although i gotta say i wish i had taken some wushu lessons from the start, if only i had the spine to do it. almost there...



stay away from adrenaline rush activities, kids!



"belly dancers" thread



Ros please don't learn to belly dance. My capricious heart couldn't take the strain. ubbangel


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Please kick up the life-jugglin skills there, arashi, and post a vid smile
I love poi as a meditative form of dance, the movements and intermovements of everything, but I'm not much of a dancer. As such, I'd love to see more dance related poi vids to see what's out there, since most of the ones I see are more techi "looky what I can do" type of stuff.

Lookin forward to the vid smile


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:You have to read that thread- if only to fall off your chair giggling at this quote:

Arashi: "without looking like a dorky white guy at a nasty boody rubbin R&B concert trying to get some... convulsin an gyratin and people callin da ambulance..." ubblol

*shimmies off to practice hip-liftin-patterns ubbrollsmile and find a teacher.....*


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:mad mad

i'm doomed!! DOOOOOMMMMMED!!!

ubbangel rolleyes


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:you guys i have a friend in london who teaches tribal style belly dance. she makes me melt. interested? "tribe.net" me and i'll hook you up.

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:london too far *sigh*

Though this might be a blessing in disguise for your nerves wink


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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arashi


arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx

Total posts: 2363
Posted:bounce

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:Written by: arashi

you guys i have a friend in london who teaches tribal style belly dance. she makes me melt. interested? "tribe.net" me and i'll hook you up.



How?
(I tried to avoid all this social network thingie for a while, since Orkut was already too much for me. But.)


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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Glåss
DIAMOND Member since Nov 2001

Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol

Total posts: 2523
Posted:smile

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:wondering when you were going to enter the convo Drew!
Dance Badly...
biggrin


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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Aliosha


Aliosha

member
Location: Berlin, somewhere

Total posts: 57
Posted:Written by: fNi

I agree with arashi though. I found that, you can work on moves, but when it comes right down to it, you don't really work on flowing them, and may rarely use them when you just have a fun unconcious spin. I like his ladder analogy and find it very helpful.




Aliosha != Arashi !
(I was the one speaking of ladders, he is the smooth one)


---
"Angels fly because they don't take themselves too seriously"
G.C. Chesterson

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:This thread makes me want to spank everyone involved.

Or was that grouphug


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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TinklePants
GOLD Member since Jul 2005

TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr

Total posts: 4217
Posted:Is there a difference, Kael? ubbangel

Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:popping while doing poi is possibly the hardest thing I have yet learnt in terms of poi. mad2 meditate

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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BansheeCat
BRONZE Member since Jul 2005

veteran
Location: lost

Total posts: 1247
Posted:Oh, oh!! go see the movie Rize, and try krumping!! ( Seriously, do see it. I really want to head to south central LA and give those dancers some poi,see what happens!It is amazing.)

We could have roaming hip hop clown gangs doing the stippers dance while swinging poi... WOW


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Yeah... I read an article on that... What a weird dance form... And I haven't seen it yet...

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Fine_Rabid_Dog


Internet Hate Machine
Location: They seek him here, they seek ...

Total posts: 10530
Posted:Krumping looks bad ass!

It is weird though.


The existance of flamethrowers says that someone, somewhere, at sometime said "I need to set that thing on fire, but it's too far away."

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