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AnApple


newbie


Total posts: 9
Posted:Hi.

I was just wondering what the proper term for the step before the 3 beat weave was. It is essentially where the poi chase each other through a figure of 8. I have heard it refered to under a number of names;

Basic Weave
Half Beat Weave
1 Beat Weave
Split Time Figure Of 8

It is used in a club I go to (hired hall, poisters teach each other new things) as an introduction to the 3 beat, i.e. first do this, then 3 beat, then 5 beat. Is this the best way, or should people be dropped in the deep end with 3 beat straight away? I dont see this intermittent stage listed anywhere.

Thank you.
AA.


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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York

Total posts: 3354
Posted:its a 2 beat weave, with one beat on each side (1:1), as opposed to the 2:1 pattern of the 3bt

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:Written by:




ef_en_ae

...with one beat on each side (1:1)...







Not at all, its two beat on each site cause its combination of two Figure 8 motions that are [1:1] so together its [2:2]. Thats why its called Two beat Weave. Its called Figure 8 too, as same name as the Figure 8 pattern or Cross-followand this move is done Wheel plane.



So from the beginnig of split time and wall plane:



[1:1] is just spining split time with each hand on its side

[2:2] is Figure 8 with each hand

[3:3] is Weave when both hands do Figure 8 + one beat.



([2:2] meen both hands do together 2 beat on each side)



ps: www.spherculism.net/wiki



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York

Total posts: 3354
Posted:well, wouldn't a 3:3 pattern be, with one hand, 3 beats on one side, 3 on the other, with the same hand? My understanding of 3 bt weave was a 2:1 pattern, 2 on one side, 1 on same side, but that the ratio was applied to just one hand, because the person would figure out that the other hand was supposed to do the same thing.

maybe it'd be clearer if I wrote that the 1:1 was for only one hand?


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:It can be.
I think it'd be clearer, cause its better to say, if [1:1] meen one hand or both cause its different than.
For example 1:2 is different from 2:1 for me.

Weave is better 1:2L(left hand) and 2:1R
or 3:3 as beat sum, like I wrote.

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:yay. lets debate colon use! haha. mine's different than both of yours i bet. iNF probably assumes like me that you're notating [opposite:same] side, not [left:right] side of your body. that way you don't need multiple notations. 1:2 in that notation would be one circle opposite side, two on the same side, which doesn't lead to weave-like seperation at all unless maybe you're inverting a few of them or something and then you lose the meaning of "same side". confused



but anapple, it's either "the 2-beat", "cross/follow", or just "the chase", tho rev might tell you it's "0 degree split-time unseperated weaving" or something in his world. biggrin



as to the second part of your question, i learned the 3-beat first. actually, i knew the 3-beat from swords before i'd ever heard of poi. i know several people who picked up the 3 by feel before they learned that it could be seperated into two 2s. let your body follow the poi instead of the other way around to start and worry about moves when you're more comfortable spinning. you'll get hit less that way too.



-- dut

EDITED_BY: Dut (1135723469)


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VampyricAcid
SILVER Member since Jun 2005

VampyricAcid

veteran
Location: My House

Total posts: 1286
Posted:i use my colon for....wait wrong kind of colon


technically 1:2 and 2:1 are the same weave, just with a different leading hand.

so 2beat would be 1:1 because each hand is doing 1 each side
3beat = 2:1 or 1:2 depending on leading hand cos one is doing 2 beats and the other is doing 1 on each side

4beat is where it gets tricky cos you'd think its 2:2 but its not, its more like 1:3-1:2 ......or something, i dunno


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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:haha. 4 people. 4 notations. noiiice.



[opposite:same] is still superior to [leading:trailing] (or whatever yours works out to) in my book b/c it lets me talk about all your moves, as well as things like 1:2 as a different weave than 2:1. my 1:2 isn't even notatable in [leading:trailing] because your way has to assume non-seperation. technically, my 1:2 is a seperated, off-time 2 petal 2-beat flower or something. my way also lets me talk about things like the 7:2 (7 leading, 2 trailing) that don't make sense without seperations and different circle speeds for each hand, but still finishes each side like a 5-beat before doing the same or something different on the other side. i'd agree that a 4 is hard our way and not Richees tho, as you have to talk about what each hand is doing seperately. but if you did 7:2 on one side and 4:1 on the other my way it would take just as much extra notation... biggrin hmm. so richee's/sperc's isn't actually correct to the circle count, just convenient. you can't have a 4:4 his way, for example, cuz that's a 5-beat, which is probably why they stop listing them at 3:3. wink i don't know why 2:2 made

sense either now but i was thinking about offsets too at the time... frown



screw it all. i'm using pipes from now on. ubbloco



-- dut

EDITED_BY: Dut (1135720082)


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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:do a durbs

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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pre
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

member


Total posts: 161
Posted:Written by: Richee

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />


ef_en_ae
...with one beat on each side (1:1)...




Not at all, its two beat on each site cause its combination of two Figure 8 motions that are [1:1] so together its [2:2]. Thats why its called Two beat Weave. Its called Figure 8 too, as same name as the Figure 8 pattern or Cross-followand this move is done Wheel plane.

So from the beginnig of split time and wall plane:

[1:1] is just spining split time with each hand on its side
[2:2] is Figure 8 with each hand
[3:3] is Weave when both hands do Figure 8 + one beat.

([2:2] meen both hands do together 2 beat on each side)

ps: www.spherculism.net/wiki

:R



he is referring to the number of beats each string does per side not total. thats how you get 1:1 2:2 I dont believe is possible thoough I think the next beat is a 2:3


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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by: Mint Sauce

do a durbs



haha. i've never seen this in person, but i assume it's a version of what i would call 2:2. (errr. 2|2 ubblol) which could make a partially inverted 5-beat if you do it with both hands.

-- dut


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MikeIcon
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

MikeIcon

Pooh-Bah
Location: Philadelphia, PA - USA

Total posts: 2109
Posted:Ok, since everyone in this thread is being entirely too technical for this question, let me simplify...



The move commonly goes by a few names. Some call it the figure 8, some call it the 2-beat weave and some call it the split time cross over. Each of these names describe the move accurately enough for most (non-nerds) to understand what you mean.



God damn, was that so hard?? smile


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We'll blaze a new trail,
and torch the rough patches.

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Mint Sauce
BRONZE Member since Sep 2003

veteran
Location: Lancs England

Total posts: 1453
Posted:yes

before i met those lot i thought they'd be a bunch of dreadlocked hippies that smoked, set things on fire ,and drank a lot of tea but then when i met them....oh wait (PyroWill)

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fNi
GOLD Member since Mar 2004

fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York

Total posts: 3354
Posted:absolutely

kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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Analemma


Analemma

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Location: West LA

Total posts: 384
Posted:Written by:
The move commonly goes by a few names. Some call it the figure 8, some call it the 2-beat weave and some call it the split time cross over. Each of these names describe the move accurately enough for most (non-nerds) to understand what you mean.





What do you mean by accurately?

eek biggrin hug

andy


To learn - read. To know - write. To master - teach . . .

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:OK

</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />



Vampyricacid

a] ...technically 1:2 and 2:1 are the same weave, just with a different leading hand..



b] ...3beat = 2:1 or 1:2...





a] Man, technicaly 1:2 and 2:1 isnt noone Weave. Technicaly its Figure 8 with one hand and one beat with the other and its useless.



b] Let me choose 3:3 smile



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />



Dut

...like me that you're notating [opposite:same] side, not [left:right] side of your body....







This is planar system, not beat system, but show me than Weave notation.



Pre > You are right I was just pointin moves without offset, odd moves.



For everybody check "degree" and " Poi siteswaps" threads for more smile



light,



:R


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AnApple


newbie


Total posts: 9
Posted:Whoa, thanks for confusing that up..... I mean CLEARING that up biggrin biggrin ubblol ubblol hehe.

Thank you very much, I learn't more than I was expecting!!
AA.


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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague

Total posts: 1841
Posted:good smile,



So together, basic Waeve is called:



Two beat weave (cause both hands does two beats)

Figure 8 (cause each hand does Figure 8 motion)

Cross-follow (cause cross-follow is base for Figure 8)



In beat notation its : [2:2] or 22 (both hands does [1:1])

In Plane notation its: [1:1] or 11 (both hands does 1 lead , 1 trail)

In degrees its [1:0] or 10 (both hands does first degree one side, zero degree the other)



For more serch for subject: "degree" by Rev (there are notation systems too) and "Siteswaps" by myself (in beat system)



perfect smile



:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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MiG
GOLD Member since Apr 2004

MiG

Self-Flagellation Expert
Location: Bogged at CG

Total posts: 3415
Posted:would a one beat weave be possible? i'm trying to think of ways it could be done...

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Oddly, I'm having trouble deciphering whether or not that was a serious post.

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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Dut
SILVER Member since Mar 2002

lurker
Location: Nashville, TN

Total posts: 380
Posted:Written by: MiG

would a one beat weave be possible? i'm trying to think of ways it could be done...



i'm guessing it would require much seperation. wink and probably some new kind of unary colon operator for us to abuse.

-- dut


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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Surely a 1bt weave is just standing there spinning your poi in split time at your sides?

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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pricklyleaf
SILVER Member since Mar 2005

pricklyleaf

with added berries
Location: Manchester

Total posts: 1365
Posted:yeh, thats what I always thought, but thats not a weave because the poi don't cross over to the opposite sides of the body. This is actually really hurting my brain. Especially as I'ver just spent my whole evening teaching 3, 4 and 5 beat weaves. Ow!

Live like there is no tomorrow,
dance like nobody is watching
and hula hoop like wiggling will save the world.

What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:It's a weave if you say it is, it's just a matter of terminology. Much like in juggling siteswaps a 0 gets defined as an empty hand because that has utility value, just say spinning at your sides is a 1bt weave to complete the set smile

"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Not really, if you look into the wider accepted definition of a weave, it is that the arms cross. Such is the reason for various debates on whether or not a through wrap counts towards the weave beats. You cannot have a 1 beat weave, as the very basic you can get will be 1 beat of each poi on a side, which is the 2bt weave. If you break the basic distinction of a weave like that, then it loses all meaning, I would imagine... At least, it would to me.

Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:You're missing my point. Juggling is all about throwing and cacthing, but in siteswap notation a 0 isn't a throw or a catch - it's just defined that way to make the notation simpler. Similarly you could define a 1bt weave as just spinning by your sides, despite the fact that there is no crossing, but it fits nicely into the beat notation where for an X beat weave the poi returns to its initial position after X complete revolutions. And like the 0 in siteswap juggling, it might make a system of notation easier.

Obviously there is no actual 1 beat weave. But there's nothing wrong from defining it as I have for consistency if that helps matters. Basically I'm looking at it primarily from the point of view of beat counts, whereas you're looking at weaves. I personally think the beats are more fundamental, but opinions differ... wink


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Sticks


Sticks

newbie
Location: Vancouver Island

Total posts: 7
Posted:1 beat weave eh? What if you cross you arms every beat? or does that have a name?
Just thinking out loud, trying to confuse the issue... ubbloco confused


Hmm, isn't it about time??

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