Forums > Social Discussion > women partially blamed if they are raped???

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Location: Cannock, staffordshire
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Posted:came across this in the news

web page

it has appalled me for the fact that imho no woman should be blamed if they are raped, wether they dress flirty, flirt with a man, ect NO means NO and all men should no that...

besides the majority of rapes these days are not spur of the moment attacks, the majority is either drug rape cases where it is hard to prove the case and in which case the attacker can drug any victim in the club and then escort them out with there friends not realising and ppl thinking they are genuinely drunk or where the victim actually knows there attacker and so then it is a hard conviction because its usually when they been out on a date or in domestic situations...

then how do you say any of these are the victims fault...
its intimidating for the victim as they are either dazed from the drug or embarrassed someone they thought they knew are like that and when they finally do stop feeling so intimidated there is not a lot of physical evidence...
with date rape the drug wears off in 12 hours or so and by time the memory comes back there is no proof as a ot of ppl who date rape use condoms so there is no dna evidence... there is a classic story line on hollyoaks regarding date rape drug at the minute...

and that third of the population that think that are probably rapists anyway as there is about that many amongst us.


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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:its actually a proven fact that we are the only species who participate in sex for fun
in the animal world a bitch is on heat then a dog jumps them but if they are not in heat they dont bother hence the sniffing of each others butts comes into it

we have sex when not inn heat pratically any time we want to for the pleasure of it and the fact id rapists enjoy controlling and not the type of sub dom control but real control and that reasons in many cases why they rape as for reading more psychology books i did criminal psychology ou course on serial killers and serial rapists as a subject


enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
Total posts: 6650
Posted:How often can man in opposition to dogs reproduce?



You may expand your view here:



Horny Monkey



So far for only species...



And may I recommend this one:

Biological Exuberance by Bruce Bagemihl, St. Martin's Press, New York, NY 1999.



I just love the internet... wink



PS: I may have not sounded too friendly babyboo footinmouth but I saw myself in a corner at the wall (where I may even belong, but then for the right reason)... PM on the way hug2

EDITED_BY: FireTom (1134921010)


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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Written by: FireTom

First I guess I made my point clear WHAT I personally think about rape and violence: its not accepteable... OK? Second I stated my personal opinion that I believe that victims in general carry in fact some responsibility for the incident - even though this should not have any effect in the punishment of the perpetrators.



firetom - I just don't agree that as a rape victim I carry any responsibility for what the rapist does with his penis.

If he can't keep it in his pants - it's not my responsibility - it's his to keep his own feelings and actions in check.


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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:thankyou ade exactly what i kept trying to say

enticed, entrapped, entombed.
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bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
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Posted:Why do some people get into the same or similar situations over and over again in their lives?

If women (in general) would start to look at themselves and what made them a "victim" in the first place it would give them the chance of getting out of this vicious circle.

It is not the dresscode, it's a mental thing. Just like dogs can sense fear and will attack for that reason there is an almost magic relationship between perpetrator and victim.

If self confident the likelyhood to become a victim of assault is far lower, than otherwise.

A "victim" can break free from this pattern if working upon it by many means, for some analysis, coaching, couselling, autosuggestion etc. works - it depends on the individual case.

Repeating stereotypes and slogans - no matter how shallow and tabloid you may articulate them - will n/ever right the wrong.

I think it's far more productive to advise victims (especially repeated) to take a look at themselves, too and therefore to cure the cause, than to simply and exclusively work on the symptoms (pls note that I'm not only speaking for rape, but for all victims of violence)


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Written by: FireTom

If women (in general) would start to look at themselves and what made them a "victim" in the first place it would give them the chance of getting out of this vicious circle.




so people (yes both men and women) who have been raped, should not think of themselves as a victim of rape...

what should they see themselves as?


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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
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Posted:ade where do you read this meaning in/between my lines?

and now you want a general statement on a million fractures... you want to paraniose me?

my questions (to my personal experience just two days ago) I am asking myself are:

a) Q: tomtom I had this feeling in my gut for the entire evening - something was about to go seriously wrong and hence I mixed into this, why?
A: Start to listen to intuition and don't intoxicate over a certain limit, be aware!
b) Q: Why am I getting into such situations over and over again and drawn into BS that's simply not mine?
A: Stop trying to save the world - start with yourself.
c) Q: What makes me prone to get victimised?
A: You have to work out issues of self-punishment, it's buried deep in the past, the education, the family background, childhood. There is something you feel guilty for - try to uncover and let go of this, because there is nothing that you have to feel guilty for.
d) Q: What can I do in the future to prevent myself from getting victimised?
A: Mind the surroundings a little more - know what leads into what - seek assistance immediately when feeling the drag.
e) Q: What can I do in the middle of the situation?
A: Remember to breathe... meditate


As to victims of rape (in general): Someone wants to rape you? Don't defend - offer him a blowjob (of the teethy kind) wink


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:your full of crap mate

before a woman gets raped she doesnt know its gona hapen and so cant prevent it and even if she did have a knowing it was going to happen still physically men can be stronger than women and so what hope have the got anyway???

and about the getting into situations you cant prevent it yes you can learn from mistakes you make yourself in life but you cant prevent an attack if its going to happen its going to happen,

in my experience i knew it was going to happen everytime it did just cause he was there i was a child/ teen what ever you wana call me and i was scared more scared of telling someone than i was of what was happening, i couldnt prevent it because of the fear, maybe i could of if i wasnt so scared and told someone it was happening but i was a child as said and scared,
as for pattens sometimes it happens, since my teen years i admitt i have gone from that to a mentally abusive relationship and then a physically abusive one and had the other odd few crappy relationships but i didnt know they was gona turn out that way till it happened and then its all on fear and control and same sort of thing
it happened now i try stay clear it means i stay clear of men full stop but the pattern thing sometimes cant be avoided
so untill you are actually in that situation dont tell others what they should do, cause its a lot harder than saying look at it this way. and dont get in the situation


enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
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Total posts: 1897
Posted:Written by: FireTom

As to victims of rape (in general): Someone wants to rape you? Don't defend - offer him a blowjob (of the teethy kind) wink



that's just plain offensive frown and shows how little understanding and compassion you have


dani_babyboo hug hug


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Sethis
Sethis

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Posted:FireTom: You're mostly making sense, but a bit less of the condescension please. I take issue with the answer to "What makes me prone to..." because it's completely wrong that every victim is prone to abuse because they have guilt issues. What makes people victims could be one of a million things.

Dani: Women can prevent potential rape. Tell your friends/bouncers that someone is making you uncomfortable. Don't get drunk. Learn self defence (and the best self defence of all is to run). Carry a rape alarm. Basic precautions might change a situation so that a rape is prevented. Of course you can't gather statistics on avoided rape, but I'm certain that taking some simple advice could stop a lot of rapes from ever occurring.

Also, I reserve the right to guide people on avoiding rape despite never having been in that position. "You don't need to have the illness to find a cure" etc etc.

You've been in some abusive situations so now you're avoiding all men? That'll solve the short term, but not the long term I'm afraid. Sympathies with what you've gone through (sincerely), but we're not all gits. Try finding a guy outside your social groups, that often helps if you keep hooking up with losers.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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FireTom
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Posted:Written by: dani_babyboo

your full of crap mate



thanks, that's exactly the level of discussion I love... I know that I am moving on very thin ice here and that all the girls may exclusively be on your side and completely disagree with what I am saying/indicating...

soorry for using rated explicit wording - may the mod censored me... It won't happen again...

dani you're talking from own real life experience and I feel sorry for what happened in your life hug I do take into account that you are standing in the middle of the forest - unable to see surrounding trees.

but your statement

Written by:
before a woman gets raped she doesnt know its gona hapen



is just plain wrong. In the exchange I personally had with a rape victim, she knew that the situation is borderline but somehow couldn't help from slipping deeper into it. so this very ONE personal experience prooves that your statement is untrue.

If you want to indicate that YOU didn't know that you're about to get raped - I might have comprehension. hence What you are describing and telling about your very own relationships I again cannot follow the message... if you're inside an abusive relationship you knew that violence at some point is bound to happen.

If you're with a violent guy trying to show him that your love can heal his aggression and that your love can save him - you're victimizing yourself in the first place.

In a hotel I stayed in Bangkok a brit-bloke next door was slapping his girlfriend silly. When hammered at the door he stopped the action, then the door was opened by the instantly arriving security and inside there was blood on the floor and on the wall. She was bleeding from nose and bruises in the face, but apart from that she was "OK".

The Thai security was all but treating him nice and she yelled: "Don't hurt him, please - he didn't mean it, I know he didn't mean it."...... After we calmed her down and talked to her she admitted that he has done it to her before and that she is now considering to leave him. She didn't want to get the Thai police involved and begged the security not to call them.

Call me a coldhearted damn bas**rd if you wish, but this doesn't alter the truth - I do have more compassion for you than you might think...

On the very same evening I noticed those two still being together in the same room.... confused the next day they were leaving the hotel together confused

In THIS case - if you ask me - the girl was asking for more trouble...

Written by:
still physically men can be stronger than women and so what hope have the got anyway???



Again you're victimizing yourself and women in general with this statement. In my Kung-Fu class after a few weeks already women felt very self confident that they have improved their level of fitness and their knowledge of self defence. It's not always HOW HARD hit someone - it's more WHERE you hit him HOW. If for say you take a roll of coins in your hand - your punch gets improved by 100% (talking from painful experience here) and your hand doesn't get broken as quick.

Written by:
you cant prevent an attack if its going to happen its going to happen



this is not true and even though I understand your case, putting out these false statements - fellow women read it, nod their heads and say "yes, she's right" - whilst doing so being caught in the same old stereotype of women being victims by birth - you're conditioning yourself and others. instead of putting out an encouraging statement and dispensing advice, you feel caught.

i can't and i have no intention to blame you.

Written by:
in my experience i knew it was going to happen everytime it did



hug

Written by:
i couldnt prevent it because of the fear, maybe i could of if i wasnt so scared and told someone it was happening but i was a child as said and scared


hug
Written by:
as for pattens sometimes it happens


hug
Written by:
since my teen years i admitt i have gone from that to a mentally abusive relationship and then a physically abusive one and had the other odd few crappy relationships but i didnt know they was gona turn out that way till it happened and then its all on fear and control and same sort of thing


hug
Written by:
it happened now i try stay clear it means i stay clear of men full stop but the pattern thing sometimes cant be avoided
so untill you are actually in that situation dont tell others what they should do, cause its a lot harder than saying look at it this way. and dont get in the situation


hug
All I am trying to do here is helping... dispensing my personal advice as I have been a victim of assault many times in my life myself and KNOW from personal experience what is going on and what is actually happening in these situations.

Of course rape is different from violent assault/ attack as sometimes the situation before may be intimate and actually feeling OK for the woman - just before she doesn't want to proceed and then the situation gets out of hand.
hug
Have you been in groups discussing the issue?
Did you seek any assistance? Other than from your mates - I'm talking about professional assistance here.
hug
You can call me what you want, dani - especially in your case I'm not taking it personal.
hug
I have had a few situations, where it was getting very very close to become life threatening - not just health... There are a few ways to respond to this and it differs very much from one situation to the other.

Mostly running as fast as you can is the best way to get out of it. Sometimes giving into the situation is a way of "just letting it pass" and in other cases resistance, screaming as loud as you can, making as much publicity as you possibly can is the way to defend yourself. In a few rare occasions cold hearted, snakelike behaviour is the only way to get out of the situation ALIVE.

There is no universal key to this as the situations and surroundings vary. The condition you're in matters as much as the condition the perpetrator is in. In your case, dani, you choose to stay out of the problem by not being with men anymore and that's you very personal decision. I respect that. And actually I also respect now the way you, or ade is calling on me because otherwise we wouldn't have this kind of discussion, which may - after soaked up - in fact help some girls to step up action.
meditate
Raising questions to yourself (without blaming) is a start. Reviewing the situations is the next. Going out there - OUT OF your paralysis and ACTIVELY DO something is the necessary conclusion (for me and a few others at least)...

Questino: After facing male violence and being helpless to their assaults for ages - is mental cruelty the way women retaliate?


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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Written by: FireTom

Questino: After facing male violence and being helpless to their assaults for ages - is mental cruelty the way women retaliate?



what? confused confused confused where did that come from?

is that a genuine question? is that what you think? or are youjust trying to bait us?

either way, I'm going on holidays, and I hope this thread dies

smile


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FireTom
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Member Since: 20th Sep 2003
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Posted:... in addition I'd hope the whole issue dies before you come back... it's just very unlikely...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

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Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: FireTom

Written by: dani_babyboo

your full of crap mate


thanks, that's exactly the level of discussion I love...


You did make a wholly inappropriate comment that was filled with not so much ignorance as blatant stupidity. I think it was obvious from your post that you were in fact 'full of crap' so dani_babyboo's post counts as fair comment.

With regards to the rest of your post you are making judgement about every single rape case based solely on the actions of a small number of women. Rape can happen at random from a lurker in the park or it can happen to people in hospital beds.

Men are stronger than women in general and I've heard a number of cases of kung-fu 'experts' getting the living poop kicked out of them by a drunken idiot who didn't act like their sparring partner. Stop watching karate kid and live in the real world.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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FireTom
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Posted:Written by: Psycho_lemming


these are not my words... just something i found on another forum,


if a woman is drunk, don't rape her.
if a woman is walking alone at night, don't rape her.
if a women is drugged and unconscious, don't rape her.
if a woman is wearing a short skirt, don't rape her.
if a woman is jogging in a park at 5 am, don't rape her.
if a woman looks like your ex-girlfriend you're still hung up on, don't rape her.
if a woman is asleep in her bed, don't rape her.
if a woman is asleep in your bed, don't rape her.
if a woman is doing her laundry, don't rape her.
if a woman is in a coma, don't rape her.
if a woman changes her mind in the middle of or about a particular activity, don't rape her.
if a woman has repeatedly refused a certain activity, don't rape her.
if a woman is not yet a woman, but a child, don't rape her.
if your girlfriend or wife is not in the mood, don't rape her.
if your step-daughter is watching tv, don't rape her.
if you break into a house and find a woman there, don't rape her.
if your friend thinks it's okay to rape someone, tell him it's not, and that he's not your friend.
if your "friend" tells you he raped someone, report him to the police.
if your frat-brother or another guy at the party tells you there's an unconscious woman upstairs and it's your turn, don't rape her, call the police and tell the guy he's a rapist.

tell your sons, god-sons, nephews, grandsons, sons of friends it's not okay to rape someone.

don't imply that she could have avoided it if she'd only done/not done x.
don't imply that it's in any way her fault.
don't let silence imply agreement when someone tells you he "got some" with the drunk girl.
don't perpetuate a culture that tells you that you have no control over or responsibility for your actions. You can, too, help yourself.



Best is to cure an illness cause and I guess we should finish it with this one...


the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
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Total posts: 1189
Posted:This tread does not stop because you want it to. umm

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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FireTom
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Posted:I don't want it to stop, dude - I just want to be it a little more productive, AS IN HERE THERE IS NOT A SINGLE SOUL THAT IS SUPPORTING RAPE OR VIOLENCE!

gmblfx

and i do not care what kung-fu so called experts you have personally heard that went down! How often have YOU been the victim of violent assault yourself? How many people have you personally talked with about their personal experience? How often have you have had the opportunity to end a fight - and took it without regarding your own safety?

But you can continue to be brave from behind your keyboard while women out there actually need input on what to do!

excuse me, please!


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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: FireTom

But you can continue to be brave from behind your keyboard while women out there actually need input on what to do!

excuse me, please!


Like your wonderful post on offering the rapist oral sex?

Just put more though into your advice. It isn't all wrong, just bits of it.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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FireTom
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Posted:"the teethy kind" rolleyes it was a) meant to give that victim some time to get a clear thought and b) hands and opportunity to rip the MF's ball off to play a round of poi...

but you just have made up your mind already and i cease to argue with i****'s


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jeff(fake)
jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 15th Apr 2005
Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: FireTom

but you just have made up your mind already and i cease to argue with i****'s


Judging from your opinions on HIV I think your accusation of idiocy is ironic to say the least. You made a bad post. It was offensive and displayed a lack of understanding of the realities of rape.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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FireTom
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Posted:if that's you judgement - i give it to you...

the best smiles are the ones you lead to wink

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Spanner
Spanner

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Posted:Written by: FireTom

As to victims of rape (in general): Someone wants to rape you? Don't defend - offer him a blowjob (of the teethy kind) wink



Written by: FireTom

"the teethy kind" rolleyes it was a) meant to give that victim some time to get a clear thought and b) hands and opportunity to rip the MF's ball off to play a round of poi...



I earlier refrained from posting upon this thread while composing the rational consideration which it and the original poster deserve but, having done so and finding these comments upon my return, unfortunately I must refrain further until you have retracted as well as apologised for them. The issue of rape is nauseating enough without their inclusion.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:as i said firetom you cant prevent an attack if it is going to happen because if someone is out to rape a woman jogging in the park and they have a knife its going to happen, she doesnt know it and the fear you get anyway can stop all actions.

as for the abusive relationships i was in, i knew alright but when i tried to leave him he threatened my kids and family and so i stayed its fear and control but then thats my business...

yes in general men can be and i stress i didnt say are stronger just can be stronger and can is a word meaning can or cant but in most cases they can be stronger than women...

as for your hugs i didnt use them examples to get compassion but to back up the arguement with real examples

as for seeking assistance and help my answer is no, only this past year have i admitted anything was wrong in my past but then thats for me to work through...

running as fast as you can, bit hard when your whole body freezes im afraid the fear makes you freeze and even your voice becomes a squeek...

as for actively ding something i already am although mine is a different form and in the lines of nspcc

jeff(fake) well said thankyou


enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

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Sethis
Sethis

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Posted:Tom: As someone who kinda agreed with you before, then I ask you something: You've got jeff (who has a lot of my respect), Dani (who I don't agree with so often, but still respect) and Spanner disagreeing with you. I think you could be a bit more sensitive about what you're posting.

Calm it down please? If a post makes you angry, give it ten minutes before you write anything. Or something.

@ Jeff and Tom: You don't need to argue over more than one thread. PM each other if you want, but personal attacks are not tolerated by Mods, I know you both know this. Chill.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:sethis at least u have respect for victims and i do agree sometimes actions can be taken to prevent it but this isnt a topic about preventing it but a topic on women being blamed for it happeing to them and so thats where my arguement comes from

enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

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flash fire
flash fire

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Posted:We've received complaints about this thread... FireTom made a stupid post or two and has been called out by other contributors within the thread. Can we please leave it at that and either a) get on with the discussion, or b) let this thread disappear into page 2 of the forum....

Thanks smile


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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:whoops sorry for the thread causing trouble

enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

stepped up promotions

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Sethis
Sethis

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Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Not your fault Dani, if we blamed threads on the creator (in most cases) the mods would have kicked out several people a long time ago... wink

I've said my tuppence on prevention and victimisation (as well as blame, back a few pages rolleyes), and I think every other person on the thread has too.

Like flash fire said, anything new? Or can we let this die?

Fun while it lasted, anyway. hug


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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dani_babyboo
dani_babyboo

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Posted:im just suprised a topic of mine actually got some sort of reaction as i seem invisable anywhere else

enticed, entrapped, entombed.
intoxicated, impaled, ingested.
bewitched, beaten, broken.
enter the love realm...
insert ur token

o jej, ale bym ci wylizal ten pepek

stepped up promotions

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Sethis
Sethis

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Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Controvesy will always have large audiences, that's good. smile

The downside is that arguments tend to heat up. frown

Still, I enjoyed reading and posting here, and I bet you'll have another interesting topic soon! Unless someone wants to keep hammering this one, but I can't think of a new angle to be honest.

Keep shining,

R


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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