Forums > Social Discussion > Five teenagers die in a crash in St.Leonards

Login/Join to Participate

_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:End of October and 5 kids die in a car crash in a town next door to me. Teenagers aged between 14 and 17 hit a wall in excess of 100mph.



BBC news coverage



It's sad and its a terrible tragedy, but its bothering me. Alot



Local newspapers and reports are making these teenagers out to be..heros?

A 10 page spread in the local Obsever the week they died about each teenage making out what such nice people they were...

Daniel Carwardine took the same train as me to college, always had his hood up/cap on (take that as you will)..and bullied one of my friends making sexual lewed sarcastic comments towards her.



Squarexbear brought up in interesting fact the other day. If they had managed to kill any pedestrains, or the people inside the house they crashed into then the headlines would read 'Hollington thugs kill citizens in high speed crash' not 'Five Hollington teengers killed in car tradegy'



Maybe this makes me biast? Meh..

I've just watched the parents of Danielle Martin on Merdian Tonight express their grief.

The reporter asked them who they blamed for the accidant. They said they couldn't place the blame until all the facts were in place (there has been speculation that the police were chasing them, rather that following).

This then had me screaming at the television.

Your daughter spent the night drinking in a graveyard with friends. Somebody under the legal age to drive and intoxicated stole a car and you got in it. The driver then crashed and everybody inside the car died.



Going back to the supposed police chase..the parents of all the teenagers seem to be settling some of the blame on the pigs..

An investigation is in place to discover whether or not the police were chasing them..but quite frankly why shouldn't they've been chasing them?

Imagen the scene 5 youths in a car, the driver drunk, most probably dangerously driving. The police have every reason to pull them over...



Huff! Moan! Winge!

EDITED_BY: *Aime* (1132599716)


Delete Topic

mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Oh c'mon, they're dead! Let them be!

It's a bad thing to be burying your kids. It's not the way it should be and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:I wouldn't wish it on anybody either.
I'm just angry at the way the media are ignoring the way they died.
Drunk, underage and at the wheel of a stolen car.


Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:I agree with mcp.



If the media are ignoring the way they died, Aimee, then how do you know about it?



I'll watch the next Meridian News bulletin out of interest, as I missed Meridian Tonight at 6pm, but I highly doubt I'll have anything different to contribute to this thread afterwards.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete

_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:Ok, maybe that needs re-wording. The circumstances of the accident..

Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:So, again: if the media are ignoring the circumstances of the accident, how do you know about them? confused

"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete

squarexbear
squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK
Member Since: 17th Apr 2005
Total posts: 585
Posted:the media arent ignoring the way they died - they are putting a spin on it that is completely hypocritical. usually they can't wait to get their oar in, abuse 'youths' and asbo culture. normally they would be calling for blood. however, these kids (prime asbo candidates) are dead and suddenly angels, wouldnt hurt a fly, perfect etc etc.



ER HELLO? THEY WERE IN A STOLEN CAR! DRUNK! SPEEDING!



as aimee has already said, had they killed anyone other than themselves there wouldnt be this disgusting outpouring of (fake) grief from the wider community. yes ok so the parents have had to bury their child, dont want to accept that the child was to blame for that etc etc...but its the reaction of other people in hastings thats getting me.



people who met them once turning up to the funeral. the papers screaming 'tragedy'....people discussing how terrible it is. its not terrible. yes, five people died - but they werent five innocent people, they werent bystanders or pedestrians. yes they were kids, but kids who were drunk and stupid and ultimately paid with their lives. ITS THEIR FAULT.


Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Written by: squarexbear


the media arent ignoring the way they died - they are putting a spin on it that is completely hypocritical. usually they can't wait to get their oar in, abuse 'youths' and asbo culture etc etc.





Would you have preferred them to do so in this case?

What would you have preferred them to do?

If it were a friend of relative of yours, would you prefer the media to dish the dirt on them, knowing full well they would not be able to defend themselves?



I'm going to step back as I need to take a short walk and I hope this thread isn't still open when I return - I find some of the attitudes displayed in it quite disturbing.



A full inquiry is yet to be held and it's unwise for anyone - media or otherwise - to jump to conclusions...


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete

Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:I'm pretty certain people aren't spitting on the dead children's graves.

They're just pointing out that maybe the media is being somewhat hypocritical in it's portrayal of events. I, too, think that if they'd hit anyone then it would have been "Drunken car thieves kill pedestrian" etc etc.

To change the attitude to drink driving/underage driving so completely based only on the fact that no-one else was killed... it makes no sense.

No parent should bury their child. I can't emphasise this enough.

But it was the childrens choice, and they made the wrong one. You pay, you play. Maybe there will be a good outcome: other people will think twice before drinking and stealing cars.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:If it were a relative being mine, and this is me being brutally honest - I would want the public to know that they were drunk and drivng behind the wheel of a stolen car.

I would be sad, I would have lost a loved one, but it would be a leason learnt for others.

I sorry you think my attitude towards this subject are disturbing, its just what I think.

EDITED_BY: *Aime* (1132602564)


Delete

animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:I'm completely in agreement with Sethis here.

the media have taken a completely different turn on this one.

Just because they were children who died, and no-one was hurt.

I have my own stories of Hastings, but we'll leave that to another day...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Written by: squarexbear


the media arent ignoring the way they died - they are putting a spin on it that is completely hypocritical. usually they can't wait to get their oar in, abuse 'youths' and asbo culture. normally they would be calling for blood. however, these kids (prime asbo candidates) are dead and suddenly angels, wouldnt hurt a fly, perfect etc etc.



ER HELLO? THEY WERE IN A STOLEN CAR! DRUNK! SPEEDING!



as aimee has already said, had they killed anyone other than themselves there wouldnt be this disgusting outpouring of (fake) grief from the wider community. yes ok so the parents have had to bury their child, dont want to accept that the child was to blame for that etc etc...but its the reaction of other people in hastings thats getting me.



people who met them once turning up to the funeral. the papers screaming 'tragedy'....people discussing how terrible it is. its not terrible. yes, five people died - but they werent five innocent people, they werent bystanders or pedestrians. yes they were kids, but kids who were drunk and stupid and ultimately paid with their lives. ITS THEIR FAULT.





Well said.



You did the crime, now do the time. Admittedly, the 'time' was extreme, but it was their fault. They're not innocent. it was nobody's fault but their own. This is a completely different spin put on it than the media usually portray.



Whilst I was in Hastings over the summer, My Sister's next door neighbour was killed. He was stabbed in the house next door to his own. (the second house down from my Sister.) He was a father of two children, lived with thier mother, family man etc etc. The local papers said it was a tragedy.



Then they found out that he had a history of agression, that he had been arguing with this family for years, that it was he that went round to the neighbours to have another fight with them, that it was more than likely done in self defence. the papers then stopped talking about it pretty sharpish.



This case is similar in that the children weren't abiding by the law, they were drunk (underage), driving underage, speeding... it's their own fault they crashed, but this time it's a tragedy, and remains a tragedy?! While it is a tragedy that they died, to me, it's more of a tragedy that they were drunk driving, speeding, stealing cars etc. they were no angels.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

Delete

mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:so what can we learn from this?

Mass media lies to you, for its own agenda.

Nothing we didn't learn in school then.

Remember kids, it's just like TV, they're making entertaining programs for you to watch.... noooooo... they're making entertaining programs so that you'll watch the adverts in between! The programs are just like the saccharin sweet smell luring you into a venus fly trap of marketing horror. And it's exactly the same with newspapers. Except occassionally newspapers also like to try and change the way you think and influence your opinions. And not in a nice explicit way, but in a devious underhand sort of way.... <abrupt mid-rant stoppage>

meditate


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

Delete

jo_rhymes
jo_rhymes

Momma Bear
Location: Telford, Shrops
Member Since: 10th Apr 2005
Total posts: 4525
Posted:i agree with Aimee here.
If those kids had killed anyone else it would have been a completely different story. It was a tradgedy that they died, but what did they expect, drinking and driving?
It's a shame the media paints the world how they want you to see it, not how it is. x


Hoppers are angels who lift us to our feet when our wings have trouble remembering how to fly.

Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Written by: *Aime*


If it were a relative being mine, and this is me being brutally honest - I would want the public to know that they were drunk and drivng behind the wheel of a stolen car.

I would be sad, I would have lost a loved one, but it would be a leason learnt for others.





If I were in the same situation, I would likely want the public to know as well, for the same reasons as you state.



But if a relative of friend of mine was in the same situation and happened to have:



- worn a baseball cap

- worn his or her hood up

- had allegations of bullying made against him/her

- had allegations made against him of behaving anti-socially to the extent that he, in the opinion of those making the allegations, was due to be served with an ASBO



then I would not consider this to be in the public interest unless the person involved had been found guilty of breaking the law.



As I don't know what Daniel Cawardine's relationship with the law was in fact, I cannot state that the allegations that made been made about his in this thread are any less or more than allegations.



There's also already so much speculation regarding this incident that I don't see any benefit in making further assumptions about people based only on which headwear they preferred to wear.



If you think that there are grounds for a complaint to be made to the Office of Communications or the Press Complaints Commission, I'm sure you'll find details of their procedures on their websites. Reading their codes of practice will also hopefully give you an insight into the restrictions placed upon what the media can and cannot report in certain circumstances.



However, I'm not completely convinced, considering that the driver and all passengers inside the car died, that the headlines would have been any different had the driver hit someone else, whether they were injured or killed outright.



It's not perfect. Local media in particular is notorious for being able to bend the rules and getting away with it. but bias in media isn't news in itself and neither are underage drinking and driving, car theft, dangerous driving...



I do appreciate that the behaviour displayed that night could rightly be described as antisocial, but I don't believe that putting an emphasis on that is more important than ensuring that the key facts are established and publicised accurately, hopefully enabling people to form their own balanced opinion on the incident and hopefully also deterring others from making the same fatal mistakes.



I'm not sure what more you want, Aimee, and not only does it seem unclear who you're angry with, but also why you've chosen to write about it here if you're adamant about your own viewpoint, other than to discover who agrees with you confused



Written by: *Aime*
I sorry you think my attitude towards this subject are disturbing, its just what I think.





There's no need for you to be sorry about what I think. I'm not smile


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete

Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I'm generally a bit annoyed by the way media cover every death - pictures of the whole family, everyone confessing the dead person was the best person in the world, popular at school, hard-working etc.

I don't wish for anyone to die, but I prefer the German way of media, to not print off the person's complete name, but first name and maybe first letter of the last name, and leaving the family etc out of it, and leave it to one or two reputedly bad newspapers or women's magazines to try and exploit the tragedy. Most people know better than to accept money to have their pictures printed in those circumstances though. Luckily.

While I don't agree with giving a bad reputation to dead people, not everyone can have been the best child in the world and the most wonderful student with hundreds of friends. All that info, and about the family's feelings, to me has no place in serious coverage. But hey, what's new, as Meg says media's just trying to sell a story shrug


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

Delete

Boo_Bunny
Boo_Bunny

Sparkely arty Mormon rainbow fairy
Location: infront of you
Member Since: 18th Mar 2005
Total posts: 933
Posted:What if they hadn't died?
They would have been called hooligans and vandals and would have been condemned by the media for drink driving.
People have an unusual view of death. it can change the worst person into a saint. It seems so strange.


Property of Fine_Rabid_Dog

Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:This thread does sound very bitter as it hints that some people are not so much arguing that there should be no spin of either kind upon the story, but of people being taken in by "ASBO" stories who are then left wanting when the press changes their tack to "tragedy" stories and everyone else is following the herd. I don't think it can be had both ways and I'd like to think that it shouldn't be had at all. If that isn't the case, I'd love to have it explained to me otherwise. I really would.



Yes, a story is being sold, but with that agenda known, there is nothing stopping anyone from avoiding the consumption of that media. It has at least announced the basic facts regarding the circumstances of the incident itself - why not use them? If someone is strongly dissatisfied with their local press, they should distribute their own without such an agenda, which could do a lot of good if, as those writing from Hastings seem to imply, that there is a recurrent problem there.



Written by: Birgit


All that info, and about the family's feelings, to me has no place in serious coverage. But hey, what's new, as Meg says media's just trying to sell a story shrug





I think it does have a place in serious coverage. If examples of the consequences of such deaths upon the feelings of families weren't made known, I expect that even less people would think twice before making such fatal decisions.



As it is, I expect that if those who had died in this incident knew for a fact that that getting into that car would result in their certain death, none of them would have. Could the "ASBO" stories I referred to earlier contribute to this kind of behaviour by recognising and therefore inadvertantly glorifying those who get away with it with their lives, and often those of others, intact? It's also worth bearing in mind that only one person can drive a car at any one time.



There are more factors to this incident: resorting to drink after grief (which, while not an excuse for alcoholism, can happen to underage drinkers), likely peer pressure and so on. I believe that actively campaigning for the prevention of these factors alongside the drinking and driving issues would be more appropriate and efficient than complaining about the media.


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete

squarexbear
squarexbear

....of doom!
Location: Hastings, UK
Member Since: 17th Apr 2005
Total posts: 585
Posted:Written by: Spanner

This thread does sound very bitter as it hints that some people are not so much arguing that there should be no spin of either kind upon the story, but of people being taken in by "ASBO" stories who are then left wanting when the press changes their tack to "tragedy" stories and everyone else is following the herd. I don't think it can be had both ways and I'd like to think that it shouldn't be had at all. If that isn't the case, I'd love to have it explained to me otherwise. I really would.




ok. this is the response i wrote to your 'close the thread' post last night (i couldnt post it because BT broadband had one of its many little tantrums).

"i would prefer them to treat this honestly - no, they aren't angels, yes they are dead, feel sorry for their parents but remember that actually it was their fault."

my problem with the media, this story, local issues etc is this: there is NO CONSISTENCY. i'd rather have no spin.

the story that LTC brought up about the guy who was killed earlier in the summer - first story 'lovely family man, nice guy etcetc'. then you find out that he was sleeping with a 16yo (as well as the mother of his children....no, ok that wasnt published but hastings is a very, very small place), he was a racist, he had a history of aggressive behaviour and violence and all of a sudden the story disappears, woops.

i have regularly written to the local paper over the past few months pointing out their discrepancies and hypocrises..as you can imagine, those letters go unanswered and unprinted.


Delete

strugz
strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...
Member Since: 6th Mar 2002
Total posts: 3964
Posted:fundimentaly it wasnt all thier faults - just the drivers. Yeh they may have all know what they were doing was wrong - but im sure as hell the driver didnt say to his friends - get in the car so we can all die together!

I was going to rant a little but decided just to add:

I think its wrong to judge someones death by the way in which they lived. No matter how bad, people dont "deserve" to die and no one person has the knowledge of anothers life and circumstance to imply that.

rolleyes


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

Delete

Spanner
Spanner

remembers when it was all fields round here
Location: in the works... somewhere...
Member Since: 27th Feb 2003
Total posts: 2790
Posted:Written by: squarexbear


ok. this is the response i wrote to your 'close the thread' post last night (i couldnt post it because BT broadband had one of its many little tantrums).





It wasn't a "close the thread" post, in that nowhere in my post did I say that smile It merely stated my hope that this thread would not be open for long. If I wanted to request that the thread should be closed, I would've used the "notify moderator" link, which I didn't. If I had wished to, at that point I would've at least certainly have given the original thread poster the ebenefit of the doubt and time to reconsider what is in my opinion - with no offence whatsoever meant to you, Aimee - a post written out of haste and frustration with no leeway proposed for discussion to the contrary opinion, which I wouldn't have thought belongs under the remit of "Social Discussion" wink



Written by:
"i would prefer them to treat this honestly - no, they aren't angels, yes they are dead, feel sorry for their parents but remember that actually it was their fault."





I can't admit that they weren't at least partially at fault in deciding to either drive drunkenly or to be driven by someone who was likely drunk (not to mention unqualified) whereas others didn't, but I also haven't seen any article detailed the incident in which these facts had been purposefully omitted either. They can lead anyone with an ounce of sense to the same conclusion and I see no practical use in emphasizing them.



Blame alone isn't going to prevent such an incident happening again.



Written by:
my problem with the media, this story, local issues etc is this: there is NO CONSISTENCY. i'd rather have no spin.





Therefore, maybe you would like to clarify your earlier comment regarding the occupants of the car being "prime ASBO candidates". Were you referring to their behaviour before the fatal journey (which, without them having been sentenced with actual ASBOs, I would regard as spin in itself) or your opinion on the specific behaviour which resulted in their death?



Written by:
the story that LTC brought up about the guy who was killed earlier in the summer - first story 'lovely family man, nice guy etcetc'. then you find out that he was sleeping with a 16yo (as well as the mother of his children....no, ok that wasnt published but hastings is a very, very small place), he was a racist, he had a history of aggressive behaviour and violence and all of a sudden the story disappears, woops.





Again, I can't comment on this as if it is actual fact or not, as neither of you have provided me with the source from which you discovered the information regarding his alleged negative behaviour. To jump to the conclusion that it may be true on the basis that I was informed of it by a stranger on the internet would surely be unwise.



But, despite sleeping with the mother of his own children around the same time, whether he had also been sleeping with a 16 year old (by that age, of the age of consent) is not something I believe to be in the public interest. If he'd been convicted of racial hatred, agressive or violent crimes (which would likely have been published in the press at the time before his death anyway), I'd say that this was fair play, but I don't have any evidence to suggest that what you've detailed is anything other than speculation.



Written by:
i have regularly written to the local paper over the past few months pointing out their discrepancies and hypocrises..as you can imagine, those letters go unanswered and unprinted.





This doesn't surprise me, but I've written about tactics to counteract this in my previous posts. it does, however, work sometimes: I've had letters published in the Daily Echo criticising the questionable practices of a group who were campaigning against a local former naval establishment being converted into accomodation for asylum seekers - a group who were very closely backed by the newspaper. Maybe my letter just slipped through the net wink



*Edit: Unsurprisingly, Strugz, when earlier considering the amount of reputable people I know who like to wear baseball caps, you're who first came to mind. Speak of the devil and all that smile Thanks for the contribution, I agree wholeheartedly*



meditate


"I thought you are man, but
you are nice woman.

yay,

:R"

Delete


Similar Topics

Using the keywords [teenager* die crash leonard*] we found the following similar topics.
1. Forums > Five teenagers die in a crash in St.Leonards [20 replies]
2. Forums > Why are teenagers lazy and apathetic thinkers? [90 replies]
3. Forums > parents knowing if a teenager has had an abortion [46 replies]
4. Forums > Wont you die *DELETED* *DELETED* *DELETED* [5 replies]
5. Forums > Adrenaline after crash [5 replies]

     Show more..