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Forums > Social Discussion > f it weren't for H.G. Wells, Sci-Fi wouldn't be what it is today...

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Do you believe the above statement to be True/False?



Discuss your opinions of his works, or indeed your opinion on any Sci-Fi works.



Who (In your opinion) was a/the role model for modern Sci Fi?



What defines Sci-Fi from fantasy?



Edit: I changed some bits to make this topic a bit broader...

EDITED_BY: Long_Time_Coming (1132231529)


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:There are only two types of sci-fi;
Type1:1984, Brave New World and the works of H.G Wells
Type2:Crap (relatively speaking of course)

Todays sci-fi has nothing of the originality of Wells's books so I'm not sure how much of an influence he has actually had. Wells ought to be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to write sci-fi though.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

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Posted:There has been alot of good sci-fi's made, all be them put in the same catagory with plastic shiny crap like startrek (except DS9, and the orrigional for comedic value like polistirene rocks and never ever ever wear red ubblol)

To be honest as far as I know I dont think HG wells has much to do with good sci-fi, unless of course Alien, Sollaris, Farscape, Space 1999, and Battlestar Galactica had any simalar themes or anything based on his work in them.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I dunno. I think that Jules Verne had something to do with it.

As did Isaac Asimov, the father of the modern Space Opera.

Sorry, bub, but leave Asimov out of it and I might have to aim a blaster at you and close the contact... wink


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rusto
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

Rusto

member
Location: Gold Coast, Qld

Total posts: 47
Posted:Arthur C Clarke, read some top stuff by this guy, he made a few movies, space Odesy 2001 is one of em smile i think confused2

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

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Total posts: 4693
Posted:i didn't know 1984 was sci-fi, i mean as far as i know sci-fi is about science somehow effecting the future, often with moral problems. but 1984 is more than that isn't it?

"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Ooooh... more Sci-fi fathers...

Nice... smile

As to 1984, never read it... from what I've heard, I'd love to...


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Mr Majestik
SILVER Member since Mar 2004

Mr Majestik

coming to a country near you
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Total posts: 4693
Posted:you soo should, its like a drug, you'll never think quite the same after........

i read it two years ago and just found the movie version n my school library last week. the movie isn't very good if you havent read the book first, but for those who have read the book should see the movie.


"but have you considered there is more to life than your eyelids?"

jointly owned by Fire_Spinning_Angel and Blu_Valley

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Doc is right. Arthur C Clarke, who wrote 2001: a space oddessy and many other "progressive" sci-fi writers claimed to have learned from Asimov.

To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

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Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Clarke is good. Maybe even he's a "Father."

Oh, and Frank Herbert? DUNE? Maybe not a "father," but definately a strong force.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Dune was to sci fi what the Matrix films were to action flicks.

Amazing world and first book/movie, to be followed up by a load of bullocks.


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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JayKitty
GOLD Member since Nov 2004

JayKitty

Mission: Ignition
Location: Central New Jersey

Total posts: 534
Posted:Maybe true, everyone learns from everyone else and then puts their own spin into it. Socrates taugh Aristotle who taught Plato. All three are said to have a big impact on philosophy, but dispite one teaching the other, they all gave separate contributions. They worked their new ideas from their predeccesors.

So while HG Wells might have have an impact, but he had the most impact on the crap. Every good writer has their own style.

(by the way, im not totally sure of the order of the greek philosophers and who thaught whom.)


Don't mind me, just passing through.

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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: Doc Lightning

Sorry, bub, but leave Asimov out of it and I might have to aim a blaster at you and close the contact... wink


The grandaddy of unconvincing sci-fi characters. Also wins the title for the most contrived and boring end to a vast galaxy and millenia spanning story arc ever. wink

Written by: Brit_Joe

...Farscape....



biggrin


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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spiralx


spiralx

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Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)

There are only two types of sci-fi;
Type1:1984, Brave New World and the works of H.G Wells
Type2:Crap (relatively speaking of course)

Todays sci-fi has nothing of the originality of Wells's books so I'm not sure how much of an influence he has actually had. Wells ought to be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to write sci-fi though.


That's a vast over-generalisation now isn't it? rolleyes Unless of course you're saying that only the first author of a style of books can be defined to be original, in which I case I think that's a ridiculous argument...


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

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Posted:There is a lot of good Sci-Fi out there, and lots of it wasn't written by "The Giants" as it were. Anyone read Kevin J Anderson "Ressurection Inc"? Or lots of other stuff (can't be bothered to list it) is actually better than some of Asimov and Well's creations.

And where do you draw the line between Sci-Fi and Fantasy? Because that opens up a whole new can of worms.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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jeff(fake)


jeff(fake)

Scientist of Fortune
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 1189
Posted:Written by: spiralx

Written by: jeff(fake)

There are only two types of sci-fi;
Type1:1984, Brave New World and the works of H.G Wells
Type2:Crap (relatively speaking of course)

Todays sci-fi has nothing of the originality of Wells's books so I'm not sure how much of an influence he has actually had. Wells ought to be mandatory reading for anyone wanting to write sci-fi though.


That's a vast over-generalisation now isn't it? rolleyes Unless of course you're saying that only the first author of a style of books can be defined to be original, in which I case I think that's a ridiculous argument...


Kind of obviously a personal opinion wink. I just don't enjoy any of the modern sci-fi as much as I do Wells. In addition you must admit that there are a lot of plot devices which come up a lot and a lot of bad science (look, the aliens are all humonoid and speak perfect English). I'm sure there is some good sci-fi out there but when you compare it to the great sci-fi the difference is obvious.

p.s. if anyone nows of any great modern sci-fi (and I mean on a par with Wells) I'd be happy to read it biggrin.


According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...

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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

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Posted:Written by: Sethis

There is a lot of good Sci-Fi out there, and lots of it wasn't written by "The Giants" as it were. Anyone read Kevin J Anderson "Ressurection Inc"? Or lots of other stuff (can't be bothered to list it) is actually better than some of Asimov and Well's creations.

And where do you draw the line between Sci-Fi and Fantasy? Because that opens up a whole new can of worms.



Sci-fi is phantasy, it dosent need to be particularary futureistic. I also forgot to mention Bladerunner and Logans Run! And oh yes Dune, how could I forget that, cool film I should read the books sometime.


Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Written by: Brit_Joe

Sci-fi is phantasy



Woah there, Joe. Sci-Fi isn't Fantasy (with an 'F' wink ) If Sci-fi is fantasy, you could say that Professor Steven Hawking shouldn't be regarded as a professor, but as a Fantasy Novelist, due to his books on all his theories. Besides, a lot of sci-fi stuff could turn out to be real in the not too distant future. Things such as alien beings/invasion, time travel... Sci-Fi doesn't necessarily have to be Futuristic, either.

I can see where you're coming from, But I think you mean to say it is Fictional, not fantasy. But who's to say that one day, it might even be fact?

I class Fantasy as books/film that are about/include things such as magical beasts, fairies, pixies and the like, Films like the Dark Crystal, Legend, Lord of the rings even, is fantasy.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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Igirisujin
SILVER Member since Jul 2005

Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston

Total posts: 2666
Posted:Oh I do dunno I cant spell. Well I see little difference between fantasy and fictional, as there both made up and come from the imagination, and anything from your imagination is fanstasy.

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Do you believe the above statement to be? True, look at the number of movies and a certain radio play made out of his books.

Discuss your opinions of his works. Never found them that great to read.

Who (In your opinion) was a/the role model for modern Sci Fi? No contest, Sir Thomas Malory's Le Morte Darthur.

What defines Sci-Fi from fantasy? There is no distinction. Wells and Verne were originally classified as science romance.


wink


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)

Written by: Doc Lightning

Sorry, bub, but leave Asimov out of it and I might have to aim a blaster at you and close the contact... wink


The grandaddy of unconvincing sci-fi characters. Also wins the title for the most contrived and boring end to a vast galaxy and millenia spanning story arc ever. wink




Asimov-bashing heathen SCUM!!!

*Aims a blaster at Jeff and closes the contact.*
wink


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:Written by: jeff(fake)
Kind of obviously a personal opinion wink. I just don't enjoy any of the modern sci-fi as much as I do Wells. In addition you must admit that there are a lot of plot devices which come up a lot and a lot of bad science (look, the aliens are all humonoid and speak perfect English). I'm sure there is some good sci-fi out there but when you compare it to the great sci-fi the difference is obvious.

p.s. if anyone nows of any great modern sci-fi (and I mean on a par with Wells) I'd be happy to read it biggrin.


Humanoid aliens that speak English? Maybe if you're reading sci-fi from twenty years ago (or Anne McCaffrey, heh) but I can't remember seeing any of those in any books I've read in the last few years smile

Recommendations?

Distress and Permutation City by Greg Egan
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0006480128
br>http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0752816497

Revelation Space by Alaistair Reynolds
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1857987489/
br>
The Time Ships (incidentally the authorised followup to The Time Machine) by Stephen Baxter
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0006480128
br>
Altered Carbon by Richard Morgan
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0345457684
br>
Off the top of my head smile All books I've enjoyed lots, probably Distress is my favourite out of these ones...


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:SpiralX: ditto greg bear.



I would say Raft by Stephen Baxter was still his best work.



The Gods Themselves : Isaac Asimov (only really good asimov work, apart from stranger in a strange land and friday.)



Tiger! Tiger! (The stars my destination) : Alfred Bester

The Demolished Man : Alfred Bester



The Child Garden : Geoff Ryman



Vurt : Jeff Noon



The Sparrow : Mary Doria Russell (much much much better than contact, but then, who reads carl sagan anyway?)



Enders Game (and the rest of the ender books) : Orson Scott Card



Solaris : Stanislaw Lem (obvious)



and yes, you should read the entire Dune Trilogy, and the three books after that too. But Dune is the best.



and in reply to the original thread, Stanislaw Lem has an entire book discussing what science fiction is. You should take a look at it.



I love Anne McCaffrey! ubbrollsmile



for a real science fiction book, go read: Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstadter.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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spiralx


spiralx

veteran
Location: London, UK

Total posts: 1376
Posted:I'd disagree about Dune, sure they're classics but they're poo wink Wasn't mad keen on Vurt either. If you like that sort of thing Richard Morgan does it better.

If you like really mind-expanding sci-fi, read Star Maker by Olaf Stapleton - written in 1925 and still brilliant.

I like all of Stephen Baxter's stuff, about as epic as you can get, but definitely read Evolution - it's a series of stories each about one of humanity's evolutionary ancestors from the time of the dinosaurs towards the present day. Very well told!


"Moo," said the happy cow.

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JauntyJames
SILVER Member since Dec 2004

JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA

Total posts: 3533
Posted:I put in my vote for Isaac Asimov. He's hugely influential in sci-fi, I doubt there are many sci-fi writers who haven't taken something from him.

-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:How can you not like dune! It kicks ass, if only for the bit about "I must not fear"

I'll have a look at richard morgan, never heard of him myself.

Yeah, I read star maker, I thought it was okay. Flowers for algernon I liked better out of the master works series.

And I forgot william gibson, but if you like that sort of thing, you'd know. Plus I had to spend exorbital amounts of money at the library when I forgot to return it...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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TheApprovingNinja


TheApprovingNinja

From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 371
Posted:if you like Asmiov space operas then check out Peter F. Hamilton, the heir apparent to Mr. Clarke. His Night's Dawn trilogy put the pep back into modern British Sci Fi.

As for enders game mcp the first was good then it got all preachy.

And for creepy old techno slight fantasy mix try china meiville, he's cool cause he listens to drum and bass wink


Viva UGLY STAFF

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:china melville listens to drum and bass? Shame his books are [censored].

I might agree with you about revelation space, if it didn't read like airport novel sci fi.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Eera


old hand
Location: In a test pit, Mackay

Total posts: 1107
Posted:Anyone read Evgeny Zamyatin's "We".

Then read 1984 and Brave New World and realised exactly where Huxley and Orwell got their ideas from.

It's so hard to find decent sci-fi. The majority of it seems to be "Fantasy masquerading as..." or is a simple horror/western/whatever with ray guns. To find stuff with some actual science in it seems rare.

I have a deep and somewhat sameful love for Douglas Hill. Hell, I grew up reading the guy, what can I say.


There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.

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TheApprovingNinja


TheApprovingNinja

From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 371
Posted:Good hard stuff is all about peter f hamilton

sounds a bit dirty that


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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:clarke was always pretty crap, and pete f hamilton, airport novelist also. My god man, have some dignity, it's like saying you like kim stanley robinson!

I never really liked hard sci-fi, I mean, wow, all your calculations are impeccable and you physics is all entirely correct and complete. You should have took your knowledge and made a space elevator instead of writing about it.

Making up aliens and then talking to them in books, is like distorting your image in a mirror for a good old bit of navel gazing with your distorted self. So if a author can make up a convincingly alien race and then write about them, I appreciate that.

Otherwise it's ideas all the way, I don't care if they're more fantastical than most fantasy novels, it's what I like in sci-fi, and you could probably tell by the books I wrote up above. That and good writing.

Which reminds me: Neal Stephenson's first novel, Snow Crash. Also a classic.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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