Forums > Social Chat > REALLY LONG THREADS (+religion)

Posted: 16th Apr 2001
Chirpy? see 'Off Topic' for some apocalyptic non-chirpiness...To the question - I've never fancied organised religion, and i was also very materialistic (as in anti-spiritual) for many years, until one experience 9in particular) forced me to change my mind and at least leave the question open.And yes, this experience was while juggling fire, on summer solstice night in Wales. Nature and Juggling, indeed (and acid, has to be added for historical accuracy...).I try not to qualify or define this *it* i encountered. Tao is the definition (or anti-definition) i relate to mostly.plus, juggling as a sadhana (in case anybody read it in the 'meet others' section and wondered)- sadhana (in Tantra) is a path/discpline leading to enlightenment. It can be meditation, it can be music, it can be a martial art, it can be standing on your head or hopping around on one foot. for me it's juggling.Asaf------------------Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

Love Is The Law, Love Under Will (A.C.666)

Posted: 16th Apr 2001
I am Catholic, and I don't mind being Catholic because I am not a very good one. I don't belive organised religon is a good thing, I think it's good that people have beliefs and that a 'moral code' taught to them - not however when it breeds hatred towards people of other religon and race,discriminates against women and teaches people that being 'homosexual' is one of the dirtiest crimes you can commit.Being religous does not make you a good person. Most of the 'unchristian' people I know are the most pious.I believe in God, I just don't believe my God is exclusive to Catholics, or Prodestants or Jews etc etc.Cained - sounds like you are going back to pagan roots, worshipping the god of Nature and Poi. Who shall be the poi god though, and does this make Malcom a prophet and this site our bible?Kat------------------"London is a city coming down from its trip and there's going to be a lot of refugees" - Danny,Withnail & I

Come faeries, take me out of this dull world, for I would ride with you upon the wind and dance upon the mountains like a flame.

- W B Yeats

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
well im not a religious pirson, at least i dont think i am, im more spiritual hen anything. i love fire, i believe that the earth has and is power, power is everywhere, you just have to become intouch with it, the elements contain power especialy, im am extra intune with fire and the power it contains, magic hapens you just have to see it. inner peice is the best and when we all learn to tollerate and not to judge this planet might just be a nice place to live, till then i do all i can to look after mother earth, after she looks after all of us but once again im rambeling keep up the flame ------------------ladies and gentelmen take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice...

ladies and gentelmen take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice...

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
im a christian, but don't worry, i didnt come to harrass you (you'll notice i kept it short and shallow on that post about the world going downhill), although i do have an odd sense of humor. i believe in Jesus and the bible, and satan too. i am a part of a church, and don't neccessarily think that organized religeon is wrong, but i have seen some of the drawbacks, even in my own life. however, what ive seen hasnt been church specific, like people everywhere, not just at my church, like to discriminate against me for how i dress. i mean, baggy pants?!?!?! and bright colors?!?! thats just insane. (i make alot of my own pants, i even have a shiny almost mirrored pair) anyway, ive had a few religeous experiences, never talked in tongues or whatever, but ive certainly felt very close to God at times. and at others very far from him. the thing i like most about him is the purpose he gives to life. i tend to think philosophically, and i know that if i were not a christian (and i still struggle as my nature often conflicts what i strive to be) that i would be very rebellious, the world would be pointless to me. because, if we evolved, there wouldnt be any reason for living, we would all be an accident, with no consequences or benefits for how we lived our lives. morality would be futile, a human concept with no point. and i tend to be down alot, i am almost dead certian that if i werent a christian, that i would have killed myself by the time i finished tenth grade. that is the biggest reason i love God, because of the sense of purpose my life now has. because he takes a waste of time like myself, and makes it worth while. but like i said, i didnt come to harrass you all, so ill try my best to not be like "you're wrong and going to hell" and if i do, go ahead and smack me upside the head eh? ive seen the damage some christians can do in the name of God, and while i try to serve him, i do hate legalistic people like that.

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
Redbrother - Although I would say I have no particular religion, those people whom I've met and call themselves christians tend to turn me away from their system of beliefs more than they draw me to it. You on the otherhand write beautifully and express your ideas simply, many of which I agree with. You make me realise that it may well just be that I've happened to meet the wrong christians and that perhaps I should give christianity another go as I should with other religions that I've encountered. Just wanted to let you know what I thought. As for the rest of my response. I recently had a near death experience and I'm still amazed that I managed to escape with so little injury and it makes me think that I must have someone/something looking out for me. I don't, as a general rule believe in one particular god/thing, but rely more on the idea that there is a collective group of beings/spirits whatever, that look out for people and encourage open-mindedness, acceptance and kindness amongst other things. Along side that idea I don't think it's possible for any one 'god' to suit everyone, but more that people can express parts of whatever religion or thing that they feel is 'good' and piece them all together to make their own 'religion' that is relevant for them. So many tangents running thu my brain, but these are the basic ideas. Everyone is "good/bad" you just have to choose what you want to express, there is more than one thing looking out for us and religion for me is a 'pick 'n mix' idea. Don't know what you guys think about this, but'd be interesting to know. Moonbeam

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
moonbeam i also agree with the pick and mix theory. my belief system is made up of many different things, it is made up of the things that i encounter, hear about, read about or become aware of on another way. i have gone with my instincts and with what feels right, what doesn't is disguarded. orginised religion does however offer people faith and faith gets alot of people through alot of rought times.

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
i consider myself to be wiccan. i believe everything has a sort of power or energy. and that magic is around us everyday its just most dont' recognize it, though it is as simple as the changing of seasons. i don't believe there is a heaven and hell or one god that i worship. i believe in many gods/goddess. i also believe in reincarnation. bascally wicca is making your own religion. like what some of you are saying, you like to pick out of a mix, it's very similar to that. just with some basic guidlines. i'm enjoying reading everyones point of views, i think it's great we can all express our beliefs and not get negative feed back for others.P.L.U.R------------------the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
I was raised catholic, but have changed a lot sinse that time. I believe the far eastern and Asian religions have been doing it better for a much longer time that christianity has. Not that I like being labeled, but if I had to I would say that I am Taoist/Zen Buddhist. I believe in chi, in karma, and in the interconnective nature of all living things. I believe in simplicity of life and of mind. I meditate, I do not pray. Nor do i believe you need a church or a priest or a ocasion to talk with the powers that be.This is a little off topic but did you know that 7000 years before JC gave the "golden rule" (Do unto others that which you would have done unto yourself) The Taoist Grand Master Lao-tzu said "do not do to others things you would not want them to do to you" Kinda cool huh?------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
I was born and raised Spiritualist.That is, a belief in God and Jesus but that what ever powers Jesus had, so do we all if we choose to accept and harness them. I learned about spirit(ghosts), spirit guides, tarot and other divinations, past lives and such things very young, though my family never believed alot in God (until most of them converted recently). My family legacy has simply handed down to me that I am a Witch. I am not Wiccan, I don't subscribe to any God or Goddess type theory, though I have been involved with many covens and circles. I believe in the power of the Earth and Skies, in the forces of the elements and that the life energies that exsist in all life is the similar and can be tapped into, blended for a means. Some call this magic but I am hesitant to use this word because of the David Copperfield connotation it supports. I am deeply spiritual but believe that in understanding other religions and philosophies I can better relate to other people, so in the end my spiritualism comes from many sources. I live by some very simple philosophies really....It doesn't matter what someone believes, they are on the right path for them and therefore no belief is wrong, just not comfortable for everyone.**Nothing is Trivial** Not a moment, not an event.It is an accident any of us being here, if it were a different sperm we could've been a different sex or a different person, therefore every breath is a gift. And even when I am having a wretched day I try to keep that in perspective."And with the power of conviction there is no sacrifice"...if I believe in it, then it is worth what I have to give up for it. This belief has come to be tested alot recently...and I really do believe it.You are your own best advocate. No one will fight or work for anything you want as arduously as you will, this applies spiritually, mentally, physically....As for spiritual experiences...My son's birth has to have been the biggest, though I believe everyday is one, the first flowers of spring, the rush of fire, the feel of water, the power of standing against the wind, the warmth of sun.....it's all so special, to me at least.How crazy do I sound now? ------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...[This message has been edited by Pele (edited 18 April 2001).]

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
"How crazy do I sound now? Not crazy at all Pele, Not crazy at all...Our species needs more memebers like you I think.Ya' know, I just got on these boards not even a month ago, and I really enjoy our conversations. I find great comfort in knowing there are others who share my values, interests, etc.I'm really startin' to like it here... ------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
Pele, i dont reakon u sound crazy at all.your last paragraph about experiences, descibes how i feel ( but did not know how to express). Some times i see so much beuty in the world, i am overwhelmed with emotion. (ill not go into examples,, )But thank you every one else for replying.I feel much better knowing that there are more and more people that are willing to exept / consider other answers to the questions that come with the traditional sense of organised religion. cheers all. :P

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
pele, that does most deffinitly not sound crazy, your words are buityfull, you have a way of expressing things with words that i cant, i wish i could write so well...anyway there was something i noticed, perhaps im seeing things but it seems that a few things that girl from mars said are quite simmilar to what i said, although ive never concidered myself to be wiccan, ive just developed these beliefs for myself, perhaps i should look into it a bit more although some of the points pele raised are simmilar to my beliefs too....how strange this planet is but im rambeling again keep up the flame ------------------ladies and gentelmen take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice...

ladies and gentelmen take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice...

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
adrian, when i read your first post i was thinking , gee she should do a little research. we have simialar beliefs as do pele and i, i just didnt' write down everything, i tried to sum it up, i'm not much of a writer. but i think you should definately look into wicca/witchcraft. if you would like i know of some very good books and some online sites you can check out if you are curious. like i said, it's basically putting together your religion, whatever you feel you believe in. if you would like those sites and books let me know. feel free to ask me or pele any questions. ------------------the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

the music feeds my soul that glows and grows with every spin i take.

Posted: 17th Apr 2001
Wow... I like this topic. This is basically what my whole life has been revolving around for the past 2 years. At least cognizantly. I wasnt brought up in religion. I was never attracted to Christianity in any way. Always the cultures of the Asia called to me. So I learned some about Christianity in school and on the side, because I dont like to turn away from something I dont know about. Then I studied Buddhism. And it was weird, something that I was attracted to, when I got down to it, turned me off also. I discovered that the rituals others follow through with to be close to God (synonymous with Buddha Allah, etc.) I felt separated from. My intuition said, this is not for you. YOU know what is for you. And it is not until 2 years ago when a life changing event came to pass that I began to listen to myself, and trust myself. Not until 1 year ago that I began to define it. Now I have a well enough definition to live and grow on. I am spiritual. Cut and dry. I perform rituals on the fly. There are 3 spheres to everyone. Body, Mind, Spirit. Ill give an example. Alright, take sex. There is good sex and bad sex. There is intimacy. So many people dont ever bring the two together. They are totally different. Intimacy has nothing to do with sex. So you caress someone. There is a certain way that only your spirit knows, that is the perfect caress. When you stroke someones hair, there is that perfect motion, and there is unperfect motion. You know as you do it, which it is. Those are some rituals I follow. It is intuition, my spirit guiding me. So when I am called, I hug a tree. I treat everything as it is important. I try at least. I believe in a creative intelligence that orchestrates the universe, and I believe every one of us has that in us. It is our spirit, and through our spirit, we are infinite, beautiful creatures. It is when we get trapped in our minds that perverts the world. I could go on and on. Forgive this for being so long. I would just like to share with all of you a very inspiring mini-speech given by Nelson Mandela. Enjoy, everyone. Our Deepest FearOur deepest fear is not that we are inadequate.Our deepsest fear is that we are powerful beyond imagination. It is our light, not our darkness, that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, and fabulous?Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God.Your playing small doesn't serve the world. There's nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people wont feel insecure around you. We were born to make manifest the glory of God that is within us. It's not just in some of us; its in everyone. And as we let our own light shine, we unconsciously give other people permission to do the same. As we are liverated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. I hope all of you got as much inspiration from that as I did. Definitely P.L.U.R.------------------~I dont care if they eat me alive, Ive got better things to do than survive. ~Ani

Wow

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
I am a Christian. In fact, I am trying to start my own ministry called, cansuming fire. where I use juggling, and poi and staff twirling in shows to spread the word. I believe the Christianity is not a religion but a relationship with my savior Jesus. But to many people try to make it a religion by giving it laws like, "don't drink, don't smoke, don't cuss and don't hang out with those that do." Yet when Jesus was here He hung out with tax gatherers and sinners (the lowlifes of His time) why shouldn't we. I am one that might never fit in with any group. One article I read said that poi swingers go into one of four catagories: punk-rock, ravers, hippies or goth. I fit into neither of those. I am also not your typical Performance arts minister. I enjoy spinning and the feeling it gives. I wouldn't call it spiritual, more relaxing. Letting go of all the bothers me of the day, going outside and just spinning about in the sun or moon with no one bothering me, no one judging me, or telling me what to do. Happy spinning to all and God bless.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
Tall Juggler;You're kidding, right? I mean, in the time of Jesus where sinners really considered "lowlifes?"I was brought up as a Christian in the "Christ on Wheels Ministry". We believed that Jesus Christ was born with wheels rather than legs. This important fact was later edited out of the New Testament in an attempt to normalize this otherwise bizarre mid-eastern religion. I am trying to start my own ministry now. It is a new religion I am calling"Hooliganism". Practictioners will celebrate this religion by frequent acts of debauchary to include, but not limited to; Drinking, drugging, wanton and bizarre sexual acts, eating crackers in bed, and fiery vegetable sacrifice.Hooligans will follow the teachings of the Goddess Athena's pet owl and will achieve enlightenment by incessant hooting. Oh, and the owl had wheels.I've got to go. There are some IRS agents stopping by and we're going to party.Skye

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
What I ment by lowlifes is that He hung out with the outcasts of society. He came to seek the lost. Those that needed him most. Not many church leaders do that today. And are you serious on this ministry of your?

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
I dunno... I don't think that mocking someone who is trying to maintain an open perspective in what can be a very closed faith-path is all that cool... particularly on the misinterpretation of the use of the word "lowlifes"... I myself am a self-avowed lowlife, but would happily sit at TallJugglers Christian feet for several hours because, from the photos, he's got mad skills.

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
TallJuggler...I think your Christian perspective is refreshing, indeed I think the same of all the Christians who have posted on here. It is nice to see that the thought process is not that everyone will burn unless they are the same.Skye, I would just like to put out a gentle reminder that without a few smiles inserted, posts can come across as either being attackful, mean or sarcastic...unfortunately this medium really does leave alot open to misinterpretation and since this thread was never started to become a debate (was it CAU?) then I am hoping you are simply exercising your right to humor instead of being on the defense.I also want to say Skye that your idea of ministry actually sounds close to some forms of "neo-paganism" or "neo-craft" where the phrase "All Modes of Pleasure are My Worship" is used like a mantra!!! The people I know in it really believe that too! Take care all....------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
OH NOOOOOOOO.WHAT HAVE I DONE.I'VE CREATED A MONSTER. lighted up guys. i was only curious, and didn't meen to get this happy family arguing. I've a suggestion.Instead of disscussing more religion, We should all spend the time we were going to spend on this thread spinning poi instead.

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
I second that motion CAU. Bash some sense in my skull instead. ------------------~I dont care if they eat me alive, Ive got better things to do than survive. ~Ani

Wow

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
Right on Pele. I never ment for my words to be misinterpreted. I, by no means was trying to knock peoples religion. I apologize if you took it that way. Twist; you don't have to sit at my feet to learn stuff. I am considered an outcast by some, even other Christians. I never considered myself hirer then others. And would gladly teach you if I could. Let this debate not hurt any of the relationships that go on at this site. If you want to know my beliefs, email me. otherwise: lets get back to twirling.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire

Posted: 19th Apr 2001
Hey Talljuggler...hard to email you when you don't have an email addy up anywhere!! I, personally didn't misinterpret anything you said, just want you to know I actually think that everyone has handled themselves very well in this thread, not that i expected anything any different but yo unever know. My SO is on an s-10 truck message board and they started a discussion about religion and the officials on the board had to close it down because they got so nasty. I read some of the posts and it was so disheartening to me, ya know!? They've done the same thing over threads that had alot of bigotry in them. It's one of the reasons I adore this board so, we really are a little family (I say little since I know there are boards out there that have over a thousand members posting daily). Anyway...cheers, peace, harmony, generic blessings and hugs to all!

Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 18th Apr 2001
lol, i think skye has about the same sense of humor that i do.anyway, i like what you all have to say (although i dont quite agree, see my previous post and you'll understand) and talljuggler, i thought that was a great idea, i must admit, that i myself get bored of the same old church thing on occasion. it is nice to see some other christians who enjoy unconventional methods of entertainment. i wish i were able to do something as great as start a ministry, i am a horrible speaker and leader, especially when i'm on the spot. although when i think about it, moses was the same way. anyway, i loved your pics, esp your fire devil sticks, i myself am better at my flower sticks than i am at poi, but then again, my real set of poi that i ordered off the site hasnt arrived yet. anyway...joshGod bless

Posted: 19th Apr 2001
Tall guy,Your perspective IS quite refreshing,Its almost kinda like what they did in the movie dogma with the "buddy christ"LOL,I love this religion stuff, i could talk for hours.------------------Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Care of other people's approval and you become their prisoner.Live fully, Rave wholly.Fluid are the movements of my strings...

Posted: 19th Apr 2001
I was kidding! I kid because I love!Skye

AnonymousPLATINUM Member

Posted: 19th Apr 2001
I had a vision some time ago that I consider a "religious vision". I was riding on the bus and I looked at my hand on the edge of window. It was the hand of an old woman. This was in the years just after my brother died, so I took it as an affirmation that I'd be around for a while. I have to thank Shikabi for the words of Nelson Mandela. Meow, so true. Especially the last line about your own openness triggering others. If you lead with love and an open heart, that's what you'll find. At least most of the time. Hail Pele, the spiritual world is here now and available in everything. A friend of mine was at a party once and everyone was talking about their favorite drug. LSD, Ecstasy, Mushrooms. She said Jasmine. The smell of Jasmine. They all laughed, but I know just what she means. Diana

Posted: 19th Apr 2001
wow, so much stuff.so, i tried to reply to this much earlier, as the first of the witch contingent, but my browser ate my post and i was too fed up to deal. which was a bummer too, cause it was really good. oh, well. doesn't matter too much, though, cause it looks like pele pretty much covered it. so anyway - what she said.

Posted: 19th Apr 2001
Hey RedbrotherI wanted to talk to you about what music and bands you like to swing to and about those famous pants. I may want a set. contact me at high_juggler@hotmail.com.

Oh LordForge me in the fire of your mightLet your flames burn higher and brighterMake me pure and holy in your siteAnd cleanse me with thy consuming fire