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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay, United Kin...

Total posts: 7330
Posted:from: http://www.cannabisculture.ca/articles/4570.html
br>
Written by: www.cannabisculture.ca

DENVER LEGALIZES MARIJUANA 53% - 46%!
by CC Magazine update (01 Nov, 2005)

Denver voters make adult possession of one ounce or less of marijuana legal.

Denver became the first city in the nation to make the private use of marijuana legal for adults 21 and older as an alternative to alcohol, a far more harmful drug. By 10.45 p.m. Tuesday night, with 100% of the votes tallied, the Alcohol-Marijuana Equalization Initiative had passed 53.49% YES to 46.51% NO.

The Alcohol-Marijuana Equalization Initiative is the first local measure in the nation to draw a comparison between the harms of alcohol and marijuana.

The successful I-100 campaign focused on the vast number of health, safety and social problems associated with alcohol use, promoting marijuana use to avoid the prevalence of such problems. The campaign pointed to government reports and scholarly studies that show alcohol is a contributing factor in domestic violence, sexual assaults, and other violent crimes, as well as overdose deaths, whereas the use of marijuana has never been linked to such violent behavior and there has never been a marijuana overdose death in history.

Colorado Medical Marijuana certificate
Colorado Medical Marijuana certificate
"It is time our laws reflect the facts, and it is an indisputable fact that marijuana is safer than alcohol, both to the user and to society," said Mason Tvert, executive director of SAFER and coordinator of the I-100 campaign. "Current laws accept and even encourage the use of alcohol over marijuana, thus pushing people toward using a more harmful substance. Why on earth would we prohibit an adult from making the rational, safer choice to use marijuana instead of alcohol in their own home?"

By approving the I-100, the use of marijuana in public, the use of marijuana by people under 21, driving under the influence of marijuana, and the cultivation and distribution of marijuana would all remain illegal, much like with alcohol.

Cannabis Culture will update this story as more details become available.

Safer Alternative For Enjoyable Recreation (SAFER) is a Colorado-based non-profit organization whose mission is to educate the public about the harmful consequences associated with alcohol, as compared to the safer yet illegal substance: marijuana.

Here is the language of the Initiative-100

Alcohol-Marijuana Equalization Initiative

WHEREAS, according to the National Institutes of Health, an average of 317 Americans die annually as the result of alcohol overdoses; and

WHEREAS, there has never been even a single fatal marijuana overdose recorded in the medical literature, as noted by the British Medical Journal in September 2003; and

WHEREAS, according to U.S. Department of Justice, About 3 million crimes occur each year in which victims perceive the offender to have been drinking at the time of the offense. Among those victims who provided information about the offenders use of alcohol, about 35% of the victimizations involved an offender who had been drinking; and

WHEREAS, extensive research, documented in official reports by the British government's Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs and the Canadian Senate Special Committee on Illegal Drugs, among others, shows that -- unlike alcohol -- marijuana use is not generally a cause of violence or aggressive behavior and in fact tends to reduce violence and aggression;

WHEREAS, it is the intent of this ordinance to have the private adult use and possession of marijuana treated in the same manner as the private adult use and possession of alcohol;

NOW, THEREFORE, BE IT ENACTED BY THE COUNCIL OF THE CITY AND COUNTY OF DENVER

________________________________________________________________________

TEXT OF PROPOSED INITIATIVE
(proposed addition in all caps, underlined)

Amend Art. 5, Div. 3, Sec. 38-175 (Revised Municipal Code)

(a) It shall be unlawful for any person UNDER THE AGE OF TWENTY-ONE (21) to possess one (1) ounce or less of marihuana. If such person is under the age of eighteen (18) years of age at the time of the offense, no jail sentence shall be imposed and any fine imposed may be supplanted by treatment as required by the court.




mind you, if you're 19 or 20 and a smoker, watch your back!


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Actually, I've seen (and used) many bongs, pure weed spliffs and hot knives.

What I never saw, in that sub-set of UK smokers that I met and smoked with, was an individual who, despite using the above options, did not also smoke spliffs containing tobacco (or smoke plain cigarettes in addition to their weed habit).

Several of my friends at that time did occasionally decide to quit tobacco and rely on pure weed spliffs, or substitute non-nicotine herbal tobacco; none of them ever lasted more than a few weeks before cracking.

Obviously I cannot speak for all UK smokers, just the considerable number I knew when I was a smoker, and the ones I see these days who always seem to be cracking open cigarettes when they roll up spliffs.

But, you're right, technically use of the term 'invariably' was not correct- it would have been more accurate for me to say 'in the vast majority of cases (that I have witnessed'.

It would be great if UK weed smokers adopted the habit of never mixing in tobacco with their weed- I do not condone the use of weed as I believe that it benefits no-one, mildly harms some, and considerably harms a few- but, my main gripe with weed is that it gets people hooked on tobacco, who otherwise may not have sampled it.

But, the majority of smokers I've known were nicotine addicts; indeed, I met a few who, despite being addicted to nicotine, were in denial on the grounds that 'they only smoked spliffs (which happened to be laden with tobacco' smile

Of course, one problem with the choice to use only pure-weed spliffs is the expense- many UK smokers are quite poor and using tobacco is a way of making the weed go further. Also, in terms of social smoking, they are quite likely to find themselves at gatherings where the majority of passed spliffs do contain tobacco.

I would urge any newbies considering getting into weed, to be aware of the dangers of cutting it with tobacco; many long-term nicotine addicts became so, by doing that.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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i8beefy2
GOLD Member since Mar 2003

i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA

Total posts: 674
Posted:Ah but see those are recreational advantages not unlike poking smot at all (the watching it, the its fun and you like it). The health benefits are secondary to the rest, and the argument can be made that the health effects of prolonged inhalation of toxic fumes is not unlike, if not worse, than marijuana use. Marijuana has a huge fun factor for a lot of people. Tobacco on the other hand (I think we need to distinguish better what 'smoking' refers to as we go along as somehow we've gotten sidetracked into tobacco as well) has much lower fun factor. It directly effect nicotinic receptors in the nervous system resulting in a relaxed feeling (thus why it is common to smoke after physical activity, sex, eating, etc. where relaxation is desired). So it DOES have some recreational benefit, albeit outweighed much more by health aspects than marijuana use.

While it is true that niether smoking / drinking or drug use have health benefits, I completely disagree that they can not have recreational benefits. What I essentially hear is "Well I don't like it, so it must have no recreational benefit at all" which I disagree with because its like someone looking at us spinning and saying "Bah stupid" when we enjoy it immensly. I can just as easily say that someone is deluded for believing Bush is a good president, but its more from personal bias than possible real opinions on the matter.

I agree that with tobacco there is an element of addiction that makes it trickier. But that element is not there for marijuana, which last time I checked was the topic here, and thus that point is moot. Habit but not addiction, and thus the free will problem Dave has does not apply to that case strictly. I reject the gateway as the mixing is not common practice here. If it is THERE then there needs to be some serious discussion on tobacco over there so you fools stop dilluting good pot with crappy chemical stuff. smile


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Drudwyn


Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni

Total posts: 632
Posted:The majority of the time, you are correct. I beg to be the exception to the rule. I enjoy smoking, alchohol and marijuana, and would like to point out I am not addicted to any of them. Every now and then, I'll decide i want a cigarette, in the same way I'll choose to have a chocolate bar or a pint. I enjoy the head rush and lightness that I feel. I do not smoke regularly, and do not feel anxiety, distress or any other withdrawal symptom. I smoke cannabis with tobacco, and yet do not feel the need for tobacco afterwards.

I have not smoked or drunk alchohol in a few days now, and I can keep that up for months with out any difficulty. I've been doing this for three years now, and in all that time I have only considered myself addicted for a couple of months during the winter of 2004/2005. My addiction stood at 5 a day. That was easy to break out of, and today I will enjoy a cigarette like I will enjoy a good beer, a chocolate bar or a spliff. It is the least enjoyable, admittedly, but I still enjoy the taste, the sensation, but not the smell, admittedly.


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:(Waits for Dave to tell Drudwyn that he's in denial wink )

i8beefy2: If you go back to my post, the only benefit that can be described as "recreational" is the audience part. Everything else is health benefits.

I don't disagree that Dope is sometimes fun. I say that the "Fun" is the *only* benefit, and you can have fun in many ways that do not involve getting high.

I also point out that drawing the line between Dope and Tobacco and saying that an argument is irrelevant because of it is a bit silly. Obviously the VAST majority of stoners over here splice their weed with baccy. (Thanks for your clarification Dave, appreciate it) So therefore the use of Tobacco with weed is actually very important in this discussion.

And I don't say "Getting Hammered isn't fun". I've never said that. What I said was "It damages your health" which, IMO is not worth the "high" that you get.

Hey, I just realised, by virtue of me being a Fire Breather, I should probably shut the hell up. rolleyes

But I'm not addicted, honest... wink


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Can anyone name me 3 benefits of drinking?

Ya get rich, if ya own a brewery.

Everyone gets a root.

And, and, and tobacco with weed is so pass

hehe


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:tongue

ubblol


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: beefy

Ah but see those are recreational advantages not unlike poking smot at all (the watching it, the its fun and you like it).




I'm afraid I really can't comment on smot poking, as I've never personally poked any smot smile

(In its favour, I guess that it's lack of popularity could indicate that it's not particularly addicitve)

---------------------

I disagree totally that smoking has the recreational benefit of relaxation (or any other benefit).

The apparent relaxation effect of smoking is easily explained by the fact that smokers, between cigs, are in a state of stress caused by the fact they smoke (withdrawal symptoms), and obviously the next cig relieves that stress.

ie, they are using cigarettes to achieve the state of relaxation that non-smokers enjoy as a matter of course.

In my experience, long-term smokers are far from relaxed smile

I dispute the irrelevanancy of nicotine to this debate, on the grounds that, as previously discussed-

1. most UK cannabis users put tobacco in their spliffs, and thus are subject to its addictive effects

2. because of 1, IMO, dabbling with cannabis is a prime factor in future generations becoming addicted to nicotine.

As previously stated, I personally do not consider the smoking of pure cannabis (ie not cut with tobacco) as a major problem; I consider it to be a waste of time, and, for some, harmful, but, certainly compared to nicotine and alcohol abuse, I see it as a fairly minor problem.

(Having said that, that does not mean that using pure weed does not have problems- simply that, as I've never known an individual who does it, I can't comment)

Lastly, I'll reiterate that my arguments against weed, cigarettes, alcohol etc, are not on health grounds- I think everyone here is probably totally aware that these drugs substantially damage health, and don't need me to tell them.

My arguments focus on the fact that, IMCO (in my considered opinion) these drugs damage the individuals ability to choose, restrict their personal liberty, and that most users suffer from an inability to recognise their true motives for using, ie, they suffer from delusion.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Drudwyn

The majority of the time, you are correct. I beg to be the exception to the rule. I enjoy smoking, alchohol and marijuana, and would like to point out I am not addicted to any of them. Every now and then, I'll decide i want a cigarette, in the same way I'll choose to have a chocolate bar or a pint. I enjoy the head rush and lightness that I feel. I do not smoke regularly, and do not feel anxiety, distress or any other withdrawal symptom. I smoke cannabis with tobacco, and yet do not feel the need for tobacco afterwards.

I have not smoked or drunk alchohol in a few days now, and I can keep that up for months with out any difficulty. I've been doing this for three years now, and in all that time I have only considered myself addicted for a couple of months during the winter of 2004/2005. My addiction stood at 5 a day. That was easy to break out of, and today I will enjoy a cigarette like I will enjoy a good beer, a chocolate bar or a spliff. It is the least enjoyable, admittedly, but I still enjoy the taste, the sensation, but not the smell, admittedly.



Most of my comments are directed towards long-term, regular smokers.

I wouldn't deny that individuals who can smoke occasionally, and take or leave it, do exist; but they are incredibly rare.

I've known many smokers who claimed to be able to do so, but, on closer investigation, turn out to be simply wrong (eg the individuals who claim to smoke only one cigarette a day, yet, sat in a bar, chain smoke 5 as they're telling you, then, when you point it out, come out with 'ah, but that's cos I'm having a drink, I smoke more then...')

or, individuals who do have such control, but, bumping into them 3 years later, they've become 20-a-day regulars.

I'm not saying it's impossible, just, that out of the hundreds of cigarette smokers i've known, only a very, very small number have claimed to be able to do it, and, out of those, none have actually sustained it on a long-term basis.

I'd suggest you do yourself a favour- if you genuinely can go without smoking, then do so- never smoke a cigarette again; thus guaranteeing that your occasional dabblings don't turn into a destructive addiction.

Alternatively, continue as you are, bookmark this thread, then get back to us in five years time and let us know if you're still an in-control occasional smoker.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Damnit Dave, you're ruining my attempts to predict your behaviour! rolleyes biggrin

Although I can imagine being 23 and getting an email from Drudwyn saying "I'm still not smoking" and thinking "What the HELL???" ubblol


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:OWD, do you have any real proof (iother tahn your personal opinion) that "dabbling with cannabis is a prime factor in future generations becoming addicted to nicotine" ?


Apart from the freedom to choose issues, I really have a problem with politicans banning plants.


smile


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Stone

OWD, do you have any real proof (iother tahn your personal opinion) that "dabbling with cannabis is a prime factor in future generations becoming addicted to nicotine" ?




Nicotine is, for most people, a highly addictive substance; a significant portion of those who 'sample' it, will end up as addicts.

Compared to previous generations, we are in a better position where cigarettes are concerned, because, unlike in generations gone by-

1. the health dangers of cigarettes are very widely known, and well publicised
2. many forms of tobacco promotion are now banned (eg, in the UK, TV adverts)
3. smoking is being gradually banned from public places- one effect of this is that, to new generations smoking is seen less and less as normal/acceptable, and more as a drug addiction
4. smoking is, in general, not seen as 'cool' anymore

My parents 'choice' to dabble with cigarettes was almost certainly influenced by the fact that it was an everyday and normal part of the culture they grew up in, almost everyone smoked, smoking was presented as fashionable and desirable by the media of their day, the health damaging aspects of smoking were not as well known or publisised etc, etc.

That's a lot of peer/cultural influence, and its no wonder that so many took up smoking.

Fortunately, things are much improved now, and children have a better chance of seeing smoking for what it is: ie not as 'cool', but as a drug addiction which brings no benefits, and which kills more people in the west than any other avoidable cause.

Of course, some will still end up taking it up, but, equally, many won't.

However, out of that group that has more sense than to dabble with cigarettes, some will end up smoking tobacco laden spliffs (as weed is promoted, unlike cigarettes, as non-addictive, harmless, and 'cool').

Of them, some will acquire a nicotine addiction, and could well end up as long-term nicotine users.

That's my reasoning, backed up by the fact that I know people who ended up as nicotine addicts via smoking spliffs. There are also posts on other HOP drug threads where people state that smoking spliffs got them addicted to tobacco.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Colin J


Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 116
Posted:Written by:
There are no benefits to using nicotine, alcohol or weed, that cannot be experienced without using them.

Most percieved benefits from drug use are simply that, during regular use, not consuming them leads to anxiety/distress, which is temporarily removed when they are consumed.

A similar effect can be obtained by wearing shoes a couple of sizes too small, so, at the end of the day you can experience the 'bliss' of taking them off.

It does indeed feel wonderful, but those who are wiser, know that that feeling can be better obtained by simply not wearing tight shoes in the first place




That sounds silly to me. How can anyone experience the feeling of getting out of tight shoes, without first wearing tight shoes.

If you could possibly tell me how to be 'stoned' without weed, I will promptly be a non-toker. or get drunk without drinking, I will be openning up shop and selling it. What are these percieved benefits anyway. I say the effect of the chemicals on the brain/mind/bodys is the only benefit, apart from passing the time. And although its percieved, like everything in your reality, I don't make up being high.

I agree its a pointless activity. But it passes the time. In a pleasurable way too (excluding abuse and serious addiction). Its not for everybody that is obvious.

I went sorta recently 4months without a joint and when I did get a bit woah man the sensation was fantastic. Though after 3 hours listening to music and playing with my toys, I had another, and then had to have a lay down for an hour, lol. Abusers will not get that effect. I abused weed sheit loads so I know what I'm talking about. I made a living(albet not a great one) as a grower for a few years too. And you know what, I'd do it again too.

And for the record cigarettes were never cool in my book. I hated that my mum smoked. When I moved to the Uk from the US I still never used tobacco, but eventually I ended up addicted to cigs when I was about 19 or 20. A clear case of the UK's way of using weed led to that. So I agree weed is a gateway drug for certain. Though all the weed smokers I know in the states don't use tobacco and see it as icky. So as a smoker I was always somewhere disgusted by it.

Ok the only point I making or going to bother defending is, weed is pointless just like lots of stuff people do. And surely if being stoned is not a benefit of weed then what is it, lol, a bad thing? And then why do millions of people spend billions on getting out of it. Oh wait I know, it passes the time. Just like watching soaps, having a wank, eating out of boredom, all of which have been known to have addicties among their ranks. I say ban soaps, wanking.....no wait thats dumb,no one will give up soaps wink. Ban addiction and abuse to anything. There sorted. Well its either that or ban pointless things like smoking tobacco and watching soaps.

Unless someone can name 3 benefits of watching soaps, which to me is stupid critera to fulfill. Unless there is something special about having 3 benefits to quallify it as 'good'.

So addiction and abuse = sort it out, you have too much time on your hands. Waiting 4months for a couple of joints or a drink = Wow you have a busy life, and get KO'ed but 1 joint/beer, yay!!


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Colin J


Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 116
Posted:I can name 3 benefits of shagging a married woman and cheating on my gf. I don't think everybody would consider that a 'good thing'. but hea=re they are anyway.

i got laid
i got laid
and i got laid


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Dude, you can't really compare smoking weed to cheating on your wife, because it's an ethical decision that affects at least 3 people (you, your wife, and the person you're screwing). Smoking weed or watching soaps only affects you. I personally can only think of one benefit of watching soaps, which is to give bored people with no lives something to talk about that is more interesting than their own existance. That's about it in my book.

Written by: Colin J

I agree its a pointless activity. But it passes the time. In a pleasurable way too...




So can you not think of many other pleasurable ways to pass the time that:
1. Aren't illegal
2. Aren't bloody expensive
3. Aren't damaging to your health
4. Aren't pointless

confused

Oh, and for the record, no-one has found that soaps or wanking damage your health, whereas cigarettes and weed does. In fact Mrs Palm and her 5 daughters can be seen to have several positive effects wink tongue ubblol


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Colin J


Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 116
Posted:Written by:
Dude, you can't really compare smoking weed to cheating on your wife, because it's an ethical decision that affects at least 3 people (you, your wife, and the person you're screwing). Smoking weed or watching soaps only affects you. I personally can only think of one benefit of watching soaps, which is to give bored people with no lives something to talk about that is more interesting than their own existance. That's about it in my book.



I didn't. I was taking the piss out of why would something need 3 benefits. Simply liking it is enough.


Written by:
So can you not think of many other pleasurable ways to pass the time that:
1. Aren't illegal
2. Aren't bloody expensive
3. Aren't damaging to your health
4. Aren't pointless




yeah and I don't LIKE any of them(not true but just for arguements sake)


I don't care even if it:
a:gets you into trouble
b:spend all your money that YOU earnt/'aquired'
c:kills you instantly
d:Makes an entire world of clones that all eat carrots, love trees, recycle, and all live in peace&love till the end of time.

If someone likes something they'll go for it. I ain't gonna stop 'em. My magick is all about everyone getting what they want.

um...yeah gtg


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Colin J

I didn't. I was taking the piss out of why would something need 3 benefits. Simply liking it is enough.




As the person who proposed 3 benefits of smoking/drinking/stoning in the first place, then I'll point out why I decided to say it. When I make decisions about what I do, then I use a system called "Pros" and "Cons". This may be a little challenging, but bear with me.

1. Think of all the good, positive reasons to do something.
2. Then think of all the bad, negative effects that something will result in.
3. Now, using logical thought, see if the "Pros" outweigh the "Cons". If they do, then the odds are that you should do whatever it is. If they don't, then don't do it.


Written by: Colin J

I don't care even if it:
a:gets you into trouble
b:spend all your money that YOU earnt/'aquired'
c:kills you instantly
d:Makes an entire world of clones that all eat carrots, love trees, recycle, and all live in peace&love till the end of time.




Erm...

A. It gets you arrested, and in America it can get you banned from jobs. The custodial sentence for smoking weed is more than most assaults get.
B. "Aquired". You wouldn't happen to be referring to theft would you? eek Because that's one of the biggest secondary effects of illegal drugs. People getting addicted and stealing to fund the habit. People spend all their money they "earn" on drugs, then spend more because they need increasing amounts of money to fund the drugs.
C. If you don't care that it kills you instantly, then may I humbly suggest jumping off a cliff as a past time? I'm sure it's fun, and you'll enjoy doing it (but only once).
D. It doesn't. Do serious amounts of weed and you develop schizophrenia. Mix it with tobacco and you get all the side effects of that. It's really very possible to recycle and live in love and happiness without smoking weed.

Tell me again, why I should do these drugs you're defending? Apart from "I like it" you haven't listed any benefits. And tell me, when you're stealing, smoking your head off and reducing your brain to mush, do you think it's ok to do it "Because it's fun"? It would be fun to kick some people I know in the HEAD. Does that make it right? confused


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Colin J


Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 116
Posted:Weed is dangerous thats why its illegal. Cigarettes have warnings on the packet that say you'll die. Only do them if you want to. Don't listen to me or anyone who tells you to do them. Make up your own mind get all you info, talk to people you trust, all that speil. I have listed benefits, being stoned. Stoned can be good. I don't think I'm trying to defend any drugs. Just peoples freedom and right to choose for themselves accept the consequences for their actions, which I find odd that that ever needs saying.

And do you know what? No, you don't do you. If I'm personally stealing, I needed it to live. If I'm ever kicking in someones head its an unfortunate situation. If I'm really stoned, it doesn't need your approval.

As for your breakdown.

A. People still smoke weed in the US don't they. You have a problem with that?
B. Its not unknown for people to spend something like daddys credit card, the tenner they found on the floor, eek money from the mugging they just committed. Its not unknown for people to steal to feed their family and not just a habit. And you have a problem with that I bet? Me too actually but it sucks cos it happens anyway. At the end of the day the stealing is a completely different issue, so we'll just skip that and just disregard where the money being spent on weed comes from. You have a problem with people spending their money?
c. sorry I'm a bit slow I can't work it out, can you show me how its done. I turned my brain to mush. Got a problem with that?
D. I was'nt Specifically saying that weed did this, but as that doesn't matter I was just illustrating something that might not be pointless. You mean you didn't know? every heavy weed smoker has mush brain and is a schizophrenic just like contact jugglers. And yes I know, I have a toke, you accept the fact and then we both get cake and eat it. hug Weed smokers are not evil demons out to poison the world. Just themselves. You have little to fear from them.


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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:For all this talk of banning and legalizing...

OK, never mind, I'm starting a new thread.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I'm sorry, I'm not sure how we got to this point. You said you were taking the piss out of me because I asked for some positive reasons to do drugs, be they alcohol, fags or Dope.

You listed "Getting Stoned" as a benefit. I say that this is outweighed by the health drawbacks. You say that they need to accept the consequences. Fine. I accept that too.

What I don't accept is that the NHS (and my taxes) is putting millions of pounds a year into the problems involved with binge drinking, fag smoking and dope taking. I don't care what you do to yourself, but when you start drawing on the resources of everyone else to help you with sith that you got yourself into, then you can sod off.

You cripple someone by drink driving? Pay for their medical care yourself. You ruin your own lungs smoking 50 a day? Go sodding private. You go crazy with the amount of dope you've been doing? Pay for your own sodding care.

I have also seen a friend of mine, who had a real talent on stage, get progressively more and more de-motivated mainly due to his smoking weed. Now he's working in a pub, with no career aspirations after dropping out of his A-Levels. I repeat, he was genuinely talented, his teachers said it, people on his course said it. Now his "Dream" is to get stoned after work.

A. Actually I have a problem with the laws in the USA being so fierce. I was just making the point that "A bit of trouble" may be all you get in, say, Belgium. The same act could net you *very* different consequences elsewhere.

B. I have problems with people spending money they didn't earn/have given to them on a drug habit. (on a side note: Dealers where you live take credit cards?? Classy... biggrin ubblol )

C. Yes, because like I said, we're picking up the bill for your mental health problems.

D. I'm not scared of stoners, because all they seem to do is sit around giggling... tongue I'm more scared of drunk people. All contact jugglers have mushy brains? THAT would explain some things... wink biggrin

I accept and respect your "Live and let live" attitude, it's something we could do with more of. What I'm saying is that drug abuse is not limited to the individual, unless they happen to live alone on a desert island. There are always other people affected.

(On another side note: CAKE!!! Wooohooooo!!! biggrin hug )


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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alien_oddity


alien_oddity

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: in the trees

Total posts: 7193
Posted:*runs in shouting* FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE THE WEEEEEEEEEEEEED


*runs away again*ubbrollsmile


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:*chases with a net*

Only on your own expense!!! biggrin

peace


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Colin J


Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 116
Posted:</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />



What I don't accept is that the NHS (and my taxes) is putting millions of pounds a year into the problems involved with binge drinking, fag smoking and dope taking. I don't care what you do to yourself, but when you start drawing on the resources of everyone else to help you with sith that you got yourself into, then you can sod off.



You cripple someone by drink driving? Pay for their medical care yourself. You ruin your own lungs smoking 50 a day? Go sodding private. You go crazy with the amount of dope you've been doing? Pay for your own sodding care







I pay my taxes which covers me if I get sick. So no dice dude. And in america I get insurence. Even though I'm sure they f**k you somehow.







Can I just put this one back up there, its addiction and abuse which completely changes the context of weed smoking. Buying/smoking/selling/high on weed is very dangerous. Abuse and addiction is extremly naughty.



*edit by Pele*



</font><blockquote><font class="small">Written by:</font><hr />

I have also seen a friend of mine, who had a real talent on stage, get progressively more and more de-motivated mainly due to his smoking weed. Now he's working in a pub, with no career aspirations after dropping out of his A-Levels. I repeat, he was genuinely talented, his teachers said it, people on his course said it. Now his "Dream" is to get stoned after work.





Many can describe similar examples.

EDITED_BY: Pele (1132768395)


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:Good reply Dave, but its really only conjecture. Have there been any studies that show using cannabis leads to nicotine addiction? Especially as most people seem to go for pure spiffs or bongs now days anyhow.

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Written by: Stone


Good reply Dave, but it's really only conjecture. Have there been any studies that show using cannabis leads to nicotine addiction? Especially as most people seem to go for pure spiffs or bongs now days anyhow.





Glad you like the reply smile



Was some time back, so, for clarity, here it is again-



Written by: onewheeldave


Written by: Stone


OWD, do you have any real proof (iother tahn your personal opinion) that "dabbling with cannabis is a prime factor in future generations becoming addicted to nicotine" ?







Nicotine is, for most people, a highly addictive substance; a significant portion of those who 'sample' it, will end up as addicts.



Compared to previous generations, we are in a better position where cigarettes are concerned, because, unlike in generations gone by-



1. the health dangers of cigarettes are very widely known, and well publicised

2. many forms of tobacco promotion are now banned (eg, in the UK, TV adverts)

3. smoking is being gradually banned from public places- one effect of this is that, to new generations smoking is seen less and less as normal/acceptable, and more as a drug addiction

4. smoking is, in general, not seen as 'cool' anymore



My parents 'choice' to dabble with cigarettes was almost certainly influenced by the fact that it was an everyday and normal part of the culture they grew up in, almost everyone smoked, smoking was presented as fashionable and desirable by the media of their day, the health damaging aspects of smoking were not as well known or publisised etc, etc.



That's a lot of peer/cultural influence, and its no wonder that so many took up smoking.



Fortunately, things are much improved now, and children have a better chance of seeing smoking for what it is: ie not as 'cool', but as a drug addiction which brings no benefits, and which kills more people in the west than any other avoidable cause.



Of course, some will still end up taking it up, but, equally, many won't.



However, out of that group that has more sense than to dabble with cigarettes, some will end up smoking tobacco laden spliffs (as weed is promoted, unlike cigarettes, as non-addictive, harmless, and 'cool').



Of them, some will acquire a nicotine addiction, and could well end up as long-term nicotine users.



That's my reasoning, backed up by the fact that I know people who ended up as nicotine addicts via smoking spliffs. There are also posts on other HOP drug threads where people state that smoking spliffs got them addicted to tobacco.







Have there been any studies that show using cannabis leads to nicotine addiction? I don't know. There have been multiple studies showing that those who use nicotine tend to become addicted to it, and this is regardless of how the nicotine is consumed.



So, if a weed-user cuts their weed with tobacco, they will tend to get addicted (to nicotine). To that extent, we don't need specific studies examining nictotine-containing-spliffs, and addiction.



Obviously, this won't apply to those who don't cut their weed with tobacco, which, apparently, those in the US, and now, presumably, Australians?, don't do.



But it's far from irrelevant, as, in the UK (where I live), smoking weed without tobacco is very rare indeed. People may have an occasional pure weed spliff, but, most will use tobacco most, or at least, some, of the time.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:*watches*

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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DarkFyre
BRONZE Member since Nov 2005

DarkFyre

HoP mage and keeper of the fireballs
Location: Palmerston North, New Zealand

Total posts: 1965
Posted:Hi there just saw this post and thought that i might add my two cents to it but hey pretty much everything has been said already.
If i agree with it or not is not of that much importace but for the record I support the legalization and taxation of cannabis and someday hope to see it put in place.
Additionally i will correct an earlier point that there are no violent offences related to cannabis. THERE ARE.
In rare circumstances it can trigger a psychotic episode in people with scitzophrenia (I think i spelled it wrong but you know what i mean) or similar disorders however the same can be said of alcohol.


May my balls of fire set your balls on fire devil

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Colin J

Even if you were somehow paying for cancerous weedheads. Yeah I can feel for that, I'd much rather my taxes go to something rather than helping the sick. Screw that helping sick people.




No, I prefer my taxes go towards helping sick people that didn't choose to bollox their own bodies for the sake of "Having fun".

Baby with birth defects? Have some cash.
Woman with one disease or another? Have some cash.
75 yr old guy with 'flu? Have some cash.
A smoker with lung cancer? Sod off.
Alcoholic with liver problems? Sod off.

In America you pay for what your own health care costs. That's a great system to use in these circumstances. I think that people should have free healthcare (like the NHS) so long as they pay their taxes and don't deliberately screw their own bodies over.

Written by: Colin J

Many can describe similar examples.




So isn't that a really good reson not to do it? umm


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: Sethis

So can you not think of many other pleasurable ways to pass the time that:
1. Aren't illegal
2. Aren't bloody expensive
3. Aren't damaging to your health
4. Aren't pointless




Doesn't spinning fire meet all of the above criteria with the possible exception (in certain locales) of (1)?

I'm just sayin'...


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Colin J


Colin J

small member
Location: Hastings

Total posts: 116
Posted:Written by:


No, I prefer my taxes go towards helping sick people that didn't choose to bollox their own bodies for the sake of "Having fun".



Baby with birth defects? Have some cash.

Woman with one disease or another? Have some cash.

75 yr old guy with 'flu? Have some cash.

A smoker with lung cancer? Sod off.

Alcoholic with liver problems? Sod off.





Um ok then. But I'll point out that an alcoholic would in most circumstances end up with liver problems for far more reasons other than just because they wanted to have fun. In some respects its a disease similar to bulemia the sufferer's health condition is self induced simply vomiting their food up. Probably for various reasons besides they simply wanted to be thin.

EDITED_BY: Colin J (1132662643)


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Stone
GOLD Member since Jun 2001

Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Total posts: 2830
Posted:watches?



yes, I have rolex , very cheep. pm wink



Dave, I dont get as much time on line these days. I think I see your point. Cannabis is the new gateway drug.



I think Colin J. raises a good point on addiction. And, the one question I have on addiction, is what drives so many people into self-sabotage like situations?





wave


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh

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