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Glumon
PLATINUM Member since Jul 2004

Glumon

stranger
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 16
Posted:Hi
in a past I made 2 pairs of fire snakes from 2,5cm diameter kevlar rope : one side ended by dural tube , other side with a knob

Thats wonderfull effect !!!!

BUT:
after about 50 twirlings, 2 ropes of 4 have a very bad condition .. 2,5cm diameter "softens" to about 1-2cm on one side of one snake and other side of another poi. (it could have about 1,5cm diameter now)
confused

Next example :
My friend made monkeyfists from 1,4cm diameter kevlar rope.Monkey fists had wooden core. = very very big fire. bud after about 20twirlings the rope go to hell :o/ on some places was broken and disconnected


Have somebody same problems , or knows about solutions to prevent this problems ??


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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: , United Kingdom

Total posts: 15414
Posted:Do you like tangles?

smile


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marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:
The first thing that comes to mind here, the type of kevlar rope your using is it fully kevlar or hybrid wick (kevlar shroud cotton core), the latter is a complete pain in the proverbial. Seriously I've had nothing but bad experiences with hybrid cored kevlar rope, supposedly much longer burning yada yada. The group I loosely run will not use it, and anyone I have contact with who buys toys with cored hybrid kevlar I recomend they send them back to the manufacturer.

The reason then, I'll qualify this then, what your describing is what I've consistently found with hybrid kevlar, as the internal cotton core burns and rapidly degrades, often resulting in a dangerous degrading of prop integrity, I've seen several fire ropes made from this material snap durring practice, and for safety concerns fire shows that I organise I will not allow the use of fire snakes / blades made from hybrid wick.

mark


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Glumon
PLATINUM Member since Jul 2004

Glumon

stranger
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 16
Posted:Thanks for your reply .. We are using HOP kelvar ropes which looks like hybrid. Have you some links or contacts to some another shop where they have a better quality kevlar ropes ??

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:
Well,I sometimes Kevlar threads get white, seems to me like burned out. Thats may cause unpropper usage, like strong fuel or blowing out or really bad quality. But for example my ropes are 3 years old and still worky, previous one got same problem.
If you can make experiment to get piecies of rope from diffrent supliers I'd like to know the result.
With a rope is important how are the threads entangled together, some of them have double threading. Other think is colour , for yellow to white and if they contain metal threads too.

Try Babache (zonglovani.cz), HOP, there are some in UK too.

http://www.kevlar.com/
br>http://www.jugglingstore.com

ps:(Wooden cube was a horrible idea and Tulen will tell you why.)

light,

:R


POI THEO(R)IST

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marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:
You might want to verify this with Malcome, I've looked at the current range of braided kevlar ropes for sale on this site these being 25mm 13mm and 10mm, and they appear to be fully aramid kevlar ropes not hybrid ropes, obviously the material you have may be different.

Hybrid wicks are generally very easy to spot, since when you expose some of the core material by removing the the outer platted shroud the core is a distinctly different cotton rope, the theory being that the kevlar shroud prevents damage to the core, experience has demonstrated on numerous occaisions that the core degrades becoming dangerously weakend and damaging the outer shroud,

mark


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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1024
Posted:Our wicking is not a "hybrid".

Nor does it contain any cotton.



All our 2",2.5" and 4" tapes and our ropes are made from a

KEVLAR fiber covered fiberglass mix.

The synthetic fibers are blended together by a unique process to create our end products.

The core of the ropes are made from exactly the same materials as the outer sheath and flat tapes.



If you are having a problem with a product you have designed using our wicks you should send pictures to us so we can comment on what could possibly be the problem.



Relying on a wick to do flexing is normally a problem as wick will last longer if kept more rigid. How wick is secured, the wick shape, and even how it is used all have an effect on how well it will last.



We are very happy to look at your problem and assist you in getting the most out of your products.

Contact us at support@homeofpoi.com (including pictures if you can)



Regards



Malcolm


May your balls always burn

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Glumon
PLATINUM Member since Jul 2004

Glumon

stranger
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 16
Posted:thanks to all replies. I'll make some photos and pate them ..

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Glumon
PLATINUM Member since Jul 2004

Glumon

stranger
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 16
Posted:ok some pictures:

new snakes

Non-Https Image Link


and small image of 2 pairs snakes after about 50 twirlings with each pair
[image]http://www.mutace.com/_ruzne/snakesmall.JPG"[/image]

bigger image is <a HERE


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marco


enthusiast
Location: uk

Total posts: 328
Posted:Well to be honest, that is the kind of failure pattern I've seen and come to expect with hybrid wicking, typically the inner core breaks down and collapses upon itself, while leaving for a while the outer shroud intact.



However the images on your main site seem to be indicative of KEVLAR fiber covered fiberglass mix rather than hybrid wicks. over the last three years I've used three core designs of snakes / blades / ropes whatever you want to call them, which I sell / use and are used by the group I work with etc, some of which are now in there second birthday and would have had hundreds of burns. I've always considered the original designs to be superior that being metal stitched 65mm / 118 mm kevlar around a full length chain core, vertually indestructable, no good for wraps tangles etc, build time uneconomical although materials cost effective.



I'll post a more detailed response after work



mark


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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1024
Posted:Have you been doing any kick wraps and did you secure the inner core seperately to the metal tube.
Kick wraps with that big knot on the end will put all the pressure on the inner fibers and will cause them to "snap" break down at the point where it bends back and forth most. Also because of the knot, pulling stress has become uneven across the internal fibers meaning it can break down quicker than normal. The outer sheath can elongate but the core can not.
Best designs do not allow the wick to flex too much.
I'd suggest removing the knot at the end and possibly remaking the connections into the tube.

Mark's design of using an inner chain is very good as it takes any pulling pressure away from the wick fibers and with some modification you may be able to use for wraps.


May your balls always burn

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Richee
BRONZE Member since Jan 2002

HOP librarian
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 1841
Posted:I agree, because the inner core break at the end and in the beginning so it doesnt seems to be kevlar problem.

One another thing can happen a while, metal tube can cut off the rest of the rope. I'd happen to me one time.

:R

(PS: O vikendu je akropole, muzeme poresit nejako novou technologii na uchyceni snur.)


POI THEO(R)IST

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Glumon
PLATINUM Member since Jul 2004

Glumon

stranger
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic

Total posts: 16
Posted:Thanks to replies:
Richee: "One another thing can happen a while, metal tube can cut off the rest of the rope. I'd happen to me one time."
I had never some problem with this.

Malcolm : Yes I am doing wraps with ropes sometimes , but no kicks .. Knobs are there because we are doing synchro duo.And with knob the ropes are like a poi / weight on the end of rope /

Inner chain is good suggestion , I will try it , because damaged ropes are now unusable due safety


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BoomShankar
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

BoomShankar

member
Location: Leeds UK

Total posts: 95
Posted:Written by:
Do you like tangles?





I like tangles but my ropes don't, and as much as id like to use them this dissagreement gets in the way. Does anyone know of any tangle happy ropes?


progger

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