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Forums > Social Discussion > d'oh - a racist teenie girl band

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Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jht...5/ixportal.html
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That's why I don't support home education. And children stars. And why people who brand their cattle with swastikas are allowed to home-educate their children and make them into a girl band. And that they send them to perform in front of crowds from the age of 8 or 9, making them think they're doing something good. And (looked at some other articles about them) how they now have a weblog for the third, smallest, child ("Dresden"), telling about her life in a good white family.

And don't even mention "freedom of speech", I know it exists but this is wrong.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:I saw these girls on a louis theroux episode. I really hoped they'd never get further than that. I just feel sorry for them, being manipulated into this situation by their mom.

Just think of the lovely boyfriends they're going to bring back home.

And I'm sooo sure they won't end up seperated like their mum.


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi


myco
myco


Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Member Since: 2nd Nov 2004
Total posts: 2084
Posted:this is really disturbing. i hope it's some sort of joke. there's a whole world of racism that i'm completely naive to.


roarfire
roarfire

comfortably numb
Location: The countryside
Member Since: 8th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2676
Posted:eek



What can I say?....that's so disgusting! I want to slap them upside the head...and their mother too. lol


.All things are beautiful if we take the time to look.


Valura
Valura

Mumma Hen
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Member Since: 25th Apr 2002
Total posts: 6391
Posted:oh my lord... they look so ....wholesome.

Thats really sad that a parents beliefs can be forced on their children and this practise continues to breed hate into the next generation. frown angry


TAJ "boat mummy." VALURA "yes sweetie you went on a boat, was daddy there with you?" TAJ "no, but monkey on boat" VALURA "well then sweetie, Daddy WAS there with you"


Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:Holy moly!!!!

That is VERY disturbing...the mother needs to be shot...the children need to be put through psychiatric treatment.



UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:frown

I wish to administer a swift kick to each of them.



Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8735
Posted:Scary. and at such a malleable age.... makes you think.

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


Lost83spy
Lost83spy

Out! Out! You demons of stupidity!
Location: Somewhere, out there...
Member Since: 14th Sep 2005
Total posts: 587
Posted:Now I've seen everything!

I cant believe there are bands like this that actually exist! It really makes me sick!

frown


It may be your sole purpose in life to serve as a warning to others

Founder and Official leader of the Curby Clan

*Owner of Brenn*


_Aime_
_Aime_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hastings
Member Since: 2nd Jan 2004
Total posts: 4172
Posted:That article makes me want to slap their mother..


maus
maus

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Sihanoukville, cambodia
Member Since: 14th Jul 2005
Total posts: 4191
Posted:censoredsick.....seriously f*****g sick....

.....i can honestly say i have NEVER been so disgusted. angry



myco
myco


Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Member Since: 2nd Nov 2004
Total posts: 2084
Posted:i actually remember hearin gon the radio about a female pop singer whose image was a sexy terrorist extremist. i can't remember the details, but i think she was produced by the same guy that manufactured that teen 'lesbian' duo tatu. i never looked into it, but i think it was just a selling point, not based on this girls actual beliefs. i hope that this is a similar situation.


TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:They've obviously been fed nazi bullsh*t since they were born. How can there still be people with such extreme racial views in the world?
It makes me sick to the stomach - There is no place in my life for racism.
And white power - wtf??
What - white people aren't powerful enough already?? Its white people who run the most powerful governments in the world. These children need to be re-educated immediately.
It makes me so angry - i just want to bite them. hard!!


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible


Thumperabbit
Zebberdy and Jack Daniels
Location: Swansea, south wales
Member Since: 16th Sep 2005
Total posts: 278
Posted:Sorry, I have to completly dissagree with you Birgit, i've been home educated since the age of 3 the the age of 16, i'm turning 18 in may. I find the most amount of racist kids come out of "school". I've been to this Home education camp where home educated kids go to join up, and i'd say out of the 200-300 people i talked to, maybe of those kids were a bit racist, but try going into a school, ask 200-300 kids what they think of black or pakistani people, i think the odd's speak for itself.

The only reason i'm scared of little kid's is because I know in ten year's time they'll be mugging me.....


Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I've never been to school in the UK so I can't comment. But then, you've not been to school either it seems.



If you have parents with a "good" (what I call good. It varies of course with other people) view of the world, fine. But if they have views like those, you're in serious trouble. I doubt the family of those girls hangs around with anyone with a different view to show them how wrong they are.



In my opinion, it's important to be confronted with different points of view, so you can learn from them, or learn to defend yours and teach them. It's similar with parents who don't send their children to school because it's not Christian(/Muslim/Jewish etc) enough, teaches evolution and refuses to let teachers hit pupils (yes there are parents who want to reintroduce it because it's in the Bible). One day, those kids will face real life and be quite defenceless against it. I've seen it happen, and it wasn't pretty.



If home education has worked in your case, good for you. I don't approve of it.



This thread isn't really to rant about home education, though. I'm just convinced that it has contributed to these two girls blindly repeating what their parents tell them the world is like, and that they didn't get a chance to hear other opinions, or even meet non-white people to make them see they are human beings like everyone else. In a school, they would've been confronted with them and been forced to find their own opinion.



I think there has to be some control of what children are taught. Home education does not provide this. I also doubt that those home-educated kids that hold extremist views would be sent to the camp you were at, so your statistics are slightly flawed. Also it depends which school you go to. In a problematic are with racial hatred you'll find the opinions you've stated, but then if kids from that area were home-educated in the same families, I doubt it would change.



Try convincing me that home education in that family was a good idea.

EDITED_BY: Birgit (1130494137)


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:They have a point.

If someone said to you "Say it loud, I'm WHITE and proud!" then would you not think they were a member of the BNP or Neo-Nazi group? But Blacks have been using it as a rallying call for ages and not been condemned for it.

It's strange that you can't be proud of your skin colour when you're in the majority.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the apparant indoctrination, and white supremacists, and Neo-Nazis. I reject almost everything they stand for. BUT when was the last time you heard someone say they were proud to be white, and NOT get labelled a racist? shrug


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I'd label a black person the same if they said it to me. IMO you've got no reason to be proud of your race or nationality, unless you've worked for it (i.e. have dreamed of living in a certain country with a passport and have managed it). If you're born black or white or British or Sri Lankan or whatever is not your achievement, so how can you be proud of it?

I don't think that's anywhere near the point they're making though! Hitler smilies, and asking people to turn fear of black people into hate is not exactly saying you're proud of your race...


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:Written by: Birgit

And don't even mention "freedom of speech", I know it exists but this is wrong.



It does exist, though.

Yes, this is one of its perversions. But the test of freedom is whether these people are allowed to speak, but not act.

I do agree with the bit about homeschooling, though.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


MasterOfDreams
MasterOfDreams

member
Location: London
Member Since: 29th Sep 2005
Total posts: 57
Posted:You see stuff about how bad racism can be in films and read it in books and think how awful it is but it never really hits home until you read something as disgusting and outrageous as this article from a newspaper.
It seems the world has to wake up to the fact that a minority of people do think this way. As messed up as it is there are still some areas of America and Europe especially, where children are bought up to believe and think like this because their family trees derive from groups like the klu Klux clan and Nazis.
I just cannot believe that any music executive would think to produce a band that uses lyrics to put across blatant and ridiculous racist morals.
Just a shame that the world has not been able to abolish such disturbed thinkers, and then again Pol Pot slayed thousands of families for not achieving his way of thinking.
Pretty dark and disturbing, shame that a mother would bring up two sweet LOOKING girls into society thinking that this is acceptable.


Dance like no one is watching, Sing like no one is listening, live your life the way that you see fit


Thumperabbit
Zebberdy and Jack Daniels
Location: Swansea, south wales
Member Since: 16th Sep 2005
Total posts: 278
Posted:Home education worked for me, i'm not saying it would work for everyone. But in the case of the 2 girl pop group, i don't think it would be much change whether they were home educated or not, if the parents are as we assume, racist, then imaging what would happen if the girls took a black friend back to their house. Imaging the riots? I have noticed that my opinions do offend a lot of people when I get into discussions about politics or the justice system with my friends or girlfriend. I've got a completely different way of thinking.

The only reason i'm scared of little kid's is because I know in ten year's time they'll be mugging me.....


Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13919
Posted:The problem with home education is that for every kid who it works great for, there's at least one kid whose parents used it to teach completely unacceptable ideaology, or to just not educate at all (especially about certain subjects).

Not a terribly good success rate, eh?


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura


Thumperabbit
Zebberdy and Jack Daniels
Location: Swansea, south wales
Member Since: 16th Sep 2005
Total posts: 278
Posted:true, but the education system has been going downhill for years, GCSE's are easier then ever. Teaching methods are apporling. Some of the people in my classes at college who have got like A's and A*'s for whatever gcse they've acceaved, you'd be thinking "how the hell did they ever pass gcse's" if you asked them some simple questions. I know i'm only showing the good sides to home education, but that's because i've never seen any bad points about my life with home education.

The only reason i'm scared of little kid's is because I know in ten year's time they'll be mugging me.....


Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:thumperrabbit: Do you think you have/had more or less friends than people who went to school? I'm just curious as to who you're supposed to pass notes to when you're at home. smile

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Thumperabbit
Zebberdy and Jack Daniels
Location: Swansea, south wales
Member Since: 16th Sep 2005
Total posts: 278
Posted:I admit that i don't have as many friends as i would if i were in school, but every one of the of the friends i do have, i would trust with my life, can you say the same with the friends you "passed notes with"

The only reason i'm scared of little kid's is because I know in ten year's time they'll be mugging me.....


Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:Hey, that wasn't a criticism. Sorry if it came across as such. hug

I was just curious as to what people do for social lives when they're taught at home. Did you join clubs that did stuff you were interested in or what?

And btw I've never had a friend from school who lasted more than about 4 years. The best friends I've made have been from outside school.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Thumperabbit
Zebberdy and Jack Daniels
Location: Swansea, south wales
Member Since: 16th Sep 2005
Total posts: 278
Posted:I'm sorry sethis, i jumped to the conclusion. I apoligise (sorry my spelling isn't the best), yes i did go to clubs after i was studying, there was this "home education group" once a week that i go to, plus i went down my mates house like 4 days out of the week. Personaly i don't need many friends, i just need a few good ones, all of my best friends i have met out of home school time or college, and like i mentioned before, i trust them all with my life. Also i used to do a lot of bmxing in my childhood

The only reason i'm scared of little kid's is because I know in ten year's time they'll be mugging me.....


Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:So, as far as you're aware, you've never openly promoted Nazi values or racist propaganda? wink

Guess Home schooling isn't as bad as I thought. biggrin

Although I would argue that the education available in schools depends entirely on the school. I went to a Grammar school, and I (mostly) enjoyed it. I can't say the same if I had, for example, gone to the local comprehensive which sucked. I really do understand why some parents choose home schooling for their kids.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.


Birgit
Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 27th Jan 2005
Total posts: 4145
Posted:I don't think the quality of friendship differs between home ed and school ed - there's no reason why it should.



Where I'm from, there is no home ed. You have to go to school - you don't have to go to kindergarten though. According to some studies, kids who didn't go to kindergarten had much greater problems socialising than those who did. Unless they had lots of siblings or went to other play-/music-/whatever groups. shrug



Just cause I've got no idea, do home ed kids get the same exam papers as school kids? And where do you go for your exams (I guess they won't let you take them at home without supervision?)



My other concern is that very few parents have the level of education to teach all subjects, and to keep up with new developments, like teaching business or computers which wouldn't even have been on the schedule when they went to school. So to me that would suggest that you're directed on your way to job or uni qualification by your parents' preference of subject, and might be suppressed in what you're really best at? Let's say I was teaching my kids at home, they'd NEVER become an artist or a historian or a sports teacher, but a scientist or a linguist instead.



Unless of course you are privileged enough to afford private teachers.


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:I'm surprised that some are blaming this on home education.

One of the motivating factors behind home education is that state education, for many, is hopelessly bad.

Yes, some home educated turn out bad, and some parents can use it to indoctrinate, but equally, some state-educated people turn out messed up as well.

In the UK, in some schools, bullying is rife, and is not handled properly by the schools (last week was a high publicity case where a local girl was facially slashed in a bullying incident, leaving a facial scar which crossed her eye).

While ever schools are rubbish, or where some children going to them are bullied to the point where they attempt suicide- the justification for home education is, IMO, totally valid.

--------------

As for the girls in the group- I saw them on Louis Theroux's documentary as well- personally I found it more amusing than scary.

In fact, I recall that most of louise theroux's docs focusing on racist/white supremist/survivalist groups and individuals showed a very different side to those people than I would have expected.

Rather than their main characteristics being hate, they often came across as sad, in a couple of occasions it was obvious that Louis developed genuine affection for some of the individuals.

Certainly, in one episode, the 'white-supremacy' group covered had more in common with a vaulkswagon appreciation group, than a hate group- they seemed to be operatiing on some kind of social nostalgia vibe, rather than anything to do with racism.

(I'm not trivialising racism, or violent racist groups here- anyone who's seen my previous posts on these issues will know that that's not the case- I'm talking about some of the groups covered in these documentaries).

I remember the leader of a white group who claimed to hate non-whites, and then Louie discovered that he not only employed a black man, but seemed to get on quite well with him; my impression of this guy was that, to an extent, his 'hate' was an act which he had to sustain as a front from being head of this group.

Same with these girls- they're OK singers, they've got an OK look; but they're no Britney Spears- on a level playing field they'd never make it big in the music world.

But, in the more restricted market of 'white supremist' groups, they'll obviously go down a bomb, make a living from it, and receive a lot of admiration from their audience.

I'm not denying her mother is a racist, from the docu it was obvious that she held those views strongly, but, to an extent, I get the feeling that a lot of these people are dragged along by circumstance.

Another factor, and one which I feel creates confusion on this issue, is that, while many are drawn to white supremacy by hate/racism; others are there for the less sinister desire to celebrate their whiteness, and to feel secure in a white community.

ie, exactly the same motivation that leads ethnic minorities/immigrants to band together/'celebrate their culture'/isolate themselves.

Whites are as vulnerable to fear as anyone else; especially in areas where they are starting to be the minority race.

It is unfortunate that those with this relativley innocent motivation, tend to end up mixing with the haters/racists; however, as I've mentioned on a previous thread- this goes for most cultural celebration.

Hindu culture was, historically, one of the most racist/discriminative cultures that has ever been- the 'caste' system is pure discrimination and oppression, and its effects persist to this day and are manifested in some of the horrors of oppressive 'arranged marriages' and killings of women who don't conform, that happen to this day in the west (I'm not saying arranged marriges are all bad here).

My personal opinion is that I'd like to see all 'cultural celebration' de-empasised- I think it causes more harm than good.

It certainly creates confusion and resentment when blacks and asians are encouraged to do it, yet whites with the same motivations are branded 'racist'.

From what I saw on the documentaries (and obviously I'm open to change on this)- these girls, and the other 'white-supremist' groups that appeared, are, in the grand scheme of things, not particularly worth getting worked up about- there's far bigger problems in the world on the issues of race.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


LazyAngel
LazyAngel

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Cambridge UK
Member Since: 29th Jul 2004
Total posts: 2895
Posted:Dave: I agree with a lot of what you've said, having seen the documentary as well. What worries me more is the idea of having two young girls like that as the 'face of fascism': They're certainly more appealing than a jack booted SS officer.

As you said, a lot of the people in the groups seem to be drawn along more by circumstance rather than anything else. What I am worried about is more people falling into this trap.

What if other young kids see their success and want to emulate them? not because of the message, but simply because they are singing on a stage?

also I think there's a difference between what you call 'cultural celebration' and nationalism. I personally believe that it is important for everyone to be aware of the history of their country, especially having studied archaeology in this context.

My studies have led me to believe that it is less the 'cultural celebration' which is the problem, and more the politicians that seek to manipulate this information to their own ends, just like statistics and any other kind of information.

As long as politicians/people have the power to withold information/ emphasise that which they choose, we will always face these problems.

When you refer to the hindu culture I assume you would take the situation at Ayodyah as a recent example. But this was an example of the above, as key archaeological information was witheld that could have avoided the ensuing riots and loss of life.

To ignore the history of a country will not fix things at all. After all it is only by knowing what happened during WW2 that everyone takes fascism so seriously.

Sorry if I've misunderstood your words, and I seem to have gone a little bit off topic


Because ActiveAngel sounds like a feminine deodorant

Like sex, I'm much more interesting in real life than online.

'Be the change you want to see in the world around you' - Ghandi


Patriarch917
Patriarch917

I make my own people.
Location: Nashville, Tennessee
Member Since: 2nd Oct 2005
Total posts: 607
Posted:Homeschooling is not the problem, I and half the people I know were homeschooled. Compared to the kids comming out of government schools in this area, we are far better off in both social and academic skills. The problem is that these girsl were taught racist beliefs, regardless of who the teacher is. Government schools are quite capable of turning out little Nazi youth... Nazi Germany certainly did.



There will always be racist freaks in the world. I'm not too concerned about the tiny impact these girls are having. I'm more concerned about people like Snoop Dogg, Kanye West, and Dave Chappelle. They portray blacks in the absolute worst possible light, and mainstream America consumes it as entertainment. If I want to hear a song about how black women are sluts, black men are criminals, and we out to shoot and slap n*****s, I don't need to find a white power group. All I need to do is turn on the TV or radio.



I'm not in any way justifying what those girls are doing. All I'm saying is that we ought to take the log out of our own eye, then we can see clearly to remove the speck from our brother's eye.



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