Forums > Beginner Poi Moves > a word on tangles
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stranger
12 posts
Location: Pensacola, land of many hurricanes, USA
stranger
12 posts
Location: Pensacola, land of many hurricanes, USA
Posted:
This is just an observation and with my being so new to this art this may be irrevelant all together.
With most of the technical discussions I've seen on tangles the writers mention pulling down on the length of the poi, thus tightening the knot and making a steadier exit. One thing I've noticed is that this is mainly a compensation for the loss of momentum on the upswinging poi (still with me? haha). So in short, compensate early with a little extra speed on the upswing, and the move should execute itself, given the correct angles.
If I'm wrong let me know! The easy way is hardly ever the correct way haha
This is just an observation and with my being so new to this art this may be irrevelant all together.
With most of the technical discussions I've seen on tangles the writers mention pulling down on the length of the poi, thus tightening the knot and making a steadier exit. One thing I've noticed is that this is mainly a compensation for the loss of momentum on the upswinging poi (still with me? haha). So in short, compensate early with a little extra speed on the upswing, and the move should execute itself, given the correct angles. If I'm wrong let me know! The easy way is hardly ever the correct way haha
fire, it's what's for spinners.
GOLD Member
Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom
Posted:
If you don't move your hands they don't stop tangling...I think. I can barely do a basic tangle but i'm sure a more informed person will correct me if/when i'm wrong.
If you don't move your hands they don't stop tangling...I think. I can barely do a basic tangle but i'm sure a more informed person will correct me if/when i'm wrong.
"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie
"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
I think you talk about Gradient.
When Poi tangle and you want your loop to stay a bit longer befor unwind, one way how to make it is when one of Poi is going slower or you didnt make the loop in the same center of both Poi,
to pull one Poi to correct different lenghts of Poi tail. It bring as
well more speed to the loop.
When you continue corecting the loop, so Poi stay spinning
until their heads gets closest, than cause there is no loop in the
end they'll unwind.
:R
EDITED_BY: Richee (1129801041)
I think you talk about Gradient.
When Poi tangle and you want your loop to stay a bit longer befor unwind, one way how to make it is when one of Poi is going slower or you didnt make the loop in the same center of both Poi,
to pull one Poi to correct different lenghts of Poi tail. It bring as
well more speed to the loop.
When you continue corecting the loop, so Poi stay spinning
until their heads gets closest, than cause there is no loop in the
end they'll unwind.
:R
EDITED_BY: Richee (1129801041)
POI THEO(R)IST
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
I don't pull on the strings in my tangles, it speeds the heads up and makes it harder to exit. As long as your technique is good you can enter tangles pretty slow and still have them exit nicely. After all the fact that the centre of rotation has moved from your hand to the tangle point means the heads have sped up anyway, you shouldn't need any extra angular momentum.
I don't pull on the strings in my tangles, it speeds the heads up and makes it harder to exit. As long as your technique is good you can enter tangles pretty slow and still have them exit nicely. After all the fact that the centre of rotation has moved from your hand to the tangle point means the heads have sped up anyway, you shouldn't need any extra angular momentum.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
SILVER Member
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
veteran
1,286 posts
Location: My House, United Kingdom
Posted:
you want a word for tangles F*(&%#S
you want a word for tangles F*(&%#S
Proudly Owned By The BMVC
Are You Sniffing My Mitten?
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
To keep your tangles going indefinitely you pull out on the handles (ie away from the nexus) as the lead poi is coming up through your arms (if you are spinning forwards). Up also bouce the whole thing up and down slightly to keep the momentum.
If you are not doing long tangle syou don't need to do this tho. Best thing i find is to keep your elbows in towards your waist, then keep your upper body in a fixed position and turn from your hips to exit on the other side.
The most common problem i find people have is that they think they need to do some crazy untangling thing with their arms, but you don't, you keep the arms locked and just turn to untangle.
m
To keep your tangles going indefinitely you pull out on the handles (ie away from the nexus) as the lead poi is coming up through your arms (if you are spinning forwards). Up also bouce the whole thing up and down slightly to keep the momentum.
If you are not doing long tangle syou don't need to do this tho. Best thing i find is to keep your elbows in towards your waist, then keep your upper body in a fixed position and turn from your hips to exit on the other side.
The most common problem i find people have is that they think they need to do some crazy untangling thing with their arms, but you don't, you keep the arms locked and just turn to untangle.
m
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
BRONZE Member
member
57 posts
Location: kent/brum, uk
member
57 posts
Location: kent/brum, uk
Posted:
i found that when i started tangles i used to enter into them really fast and pull tight but as i practiced i discovered that you can slow them down to the point where the will only just have enough momentum to exit. As is said above smooth movement and locked arms are far more important than speed.
i found that when i started tangles i used to enter into them really fast and pull tight but as i practiced i discovered that you can slow them down to the point where the will only just have enough momentum to exit. As is said above smooth movement and locked arms are far more important than speed.
i cdnoult blveiee taht i cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht i was rdanieg!
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
locked arms are good if you want tangles that are pretty rigid... a lot of people like matt have done some cool things with rigid tangles, but rigid tangles arent free to move about very well.. they are to closed of a system... the sooner you get comfortable moving with your tanlges (like having your arms move in whatever way while the tangle spins), the sooner you'll be able to use your tangles more freely.. like changing the axis from vertical to horizontal and what not..
locked arms are good if you want tangles that are pretty rigid... a lot of people like matt have done some cool things with rigid tangles, but rigid tangles arent free to move about very well.. they are to closed of a system... the sooner you get comfortable moving with your tanlges (like having your arms move in whatever way while the tangle spins), the sooner you'll be able to use your tangles more freely.. like changing the axis from vertical to horizontal and what not..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
SILVER Member
stranger
12 posts
Location: Pensacola, land of many hurricanes, USA
stranger
12 posts
Location: Pensacola, land of many hurricanes, USA
Posted:
vertical to horizontal? hardcore!
vertical to horizontal? hardcore!
fire, it's what's for spinners.
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
Hmm... I keep htting my paws and arms when I try and do an airwrap. I've not read a huge amount on airwraps, because what I did read confused me.
Here's a description of what I'm trying to do. I use very lightweight sock poi that go from my paw to half way up my upper arm, and i'm spinning into an airwrap from a weave. I stop my arms at the 9 - 3 o'clock position and get the poi to hit, usually about midway up the poi's length. However in the process, one or both of my poi heads will collide with my arms or paws, and will just tangle. This happens almost every time, and I can't work out what I'm doing wrong.
Also, with my left paw across my body spinning the poi upwards into the right poi, which paw should I raise? I've heard people say right, others say left, and I'm confused.
Last point, do my paws stay a rigid distance apart, or do I push them together or pull them apart once they've tangled?
One in 10 times they'll come apart, but I have no idea why?
Can anyone help?
Hmm... I keep htting my paws and arms when I try and do an airwrap. I've not read a huge amount on airwraps, because what I did read confused me.
Here's a description of what I'm trying to do. I use very lightweight sock poi that go from my paw to half way up my upper arm, and i'm spinning into an airwrap from a weave. I stop my arms at the 9 - 3 o'clock position and get the poi to hit, usually about midway up the poi's length. However in the process, one or both of my poi heads will collide with my arms or paws, and will just tangle. This happens almost every time, and I can't work out what I'm doing wrong.
Also, with my left paw across my body spinning the poi upwards into the right poi, which paw should I raise? I've heard people say right, others say left, and I'm confused.
Last point, do my paws stay a rigid distance apart, or do I push them together or pull them apart once they've tangled?
One in 10 times they'll come apart, but I have no idea why?
Can anyone help?
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
GOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
you have paws? lol *pats the dog* good boy!!!
you have paws? lol *pats the dog* good boy!!!
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
*tailwags happily* Yay for head pats!
*tailwags happily* Yay for head pats!
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
here's the thing buddy... tangles are a strange breed of patterns. they can enter form anywhere and exit from anywhere too.. meaning they are prone to exit sometimes when you dont want them too, which means beware the poi coming for your jaw when you do one..
given how complex they can be, Im going to give you the mickey mouse version and let you work out what you need to know from there.. (most people dont realy take it past this)
1- the word airwrap is a useless word applied to anything that involves the strings touching.. kinda like a kid learning the word cow, and then pointing to any animal and saying cow.. because of this, it makes it really hard to learn how to do an airwrap..
2- the basic tangle.. this happens between the arms.. with the left hand spinning buzzsaw and the right poi spinning in the right side plane, bring the right poi into the buzzsaw to the left of the left poi.. it should tanlge and spin there.. as long as you hold your hands.. you exit by bringing it out the side.. like out the left side..
3- untangling vs staying tanlged. it will stay tangled if you leave it in between the arms. it will untangle if you bring it out one of the sides.. you dont always notice the bringing across (ESPECIALLYif you do it wallplane)...since the method I gave you above has you entering from the buzzsaw, you shouldnt have that much of a problem keeping it going.. but the common entry is from the outside planes.. when you enter from the outside, you have to bring across into the middle.. sometimes that momentum carries it right out the other side.. and the poi can spin all sorts of crazy angles that makes them pass barely outside your hands.. hell you can even do a twist (which connects on the outsde and unconnects on the far side) and it would come across like an airwrap..
4- one final note.. if you pull and loosen your hold when its spinning, you loosen the 'grip' on the inside of the tangle.. this can give it the room it needs to undo.. as can moving your hands.. but as long as you hold it in the center.. it cant really undo..
here's the thing buddy... tangles are a strange breed of patterns. they can enter form anywhere and exit from anywhere too.. meaning they are prone to exit sometimes when you dont want them too, which means beware the poi coming for your jaw when you do one..
given how complex they can be, Im going to give you the mickey mouse version and let you work out what you need to know from there.. (most people dont realy take it past this)
1- the word airwrap is a useless word applied to anything that involves the strings touching.. kinda like a kid learning the word cow, and then pointing to any animal and saying cow.. because of this, it makes it really hard to learn how to do an airwrap..
2- the basic tangle.. this happens between the arms.. with the left hand spinning buzzsaw and the right poi spinning in the right side plane, bring the right poi into the buzzsaw to the left of the left poi.. it should tanlge and spin there.. as long as you hold your hands.. you exit by bringing it out the side.. like out the left side..
3- untangling vs staying tanlged. it will stay tangled if you leave it in between the arms. it will untangle if you bring it out one of the sides.. you dont always notice the bringing across (ESPECIALLYif you do it wallplane)...since the method I gave you above has you entering from the buzzsaw, you shouldnt have that much of a problem keeping it going.. but the common entry is from the outside planes.. when you enter from the outside, you have to bring across into the middle.. sometimes that momentum carries it right out the other side.. and the poi can spin all sorts of crazy angles that makes them pass barely outside your hands.. hell you can even do a twist (which connects on the outsde and unconnects on the far side) and it would come across like an airwrap..
4- one final note.. if you pull and loosen your hold when its spinning, you loosen the 'grip' on the inside of the tangle.. this can give it the room it needs to undo.. as can moving your hands.. but as long as you hold it in the center.. it cant really undo..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
Whoo! Thanks Rev... The part I didn't understand was the bringing across part. I pull my left paw up and further across my right paw side, and my right paw in towards my left. This allows the poi to then move out of the tangle and carry on with their spin.
What tangles are there? There's the hyperloop (paws at 6 and 12, bringing the tangle right across your body so it buzzsaws around the tangle point), that tangle you've just taught me, with paws at 9 and 3, I've seen butterfly tangles, buzzsaw tangles (which I can do sometimes), I've seen a mobile never ending tangle done by PureSock, but I'm eager to learn more. This one can be done anywhere around my body, but what other ones are there to do?
I like the terms airwrap and hyperloop, because I think I can understand and do them. However, they're all just tangles, and I've only just been introduced to this world, so correct me if I'm wrong in my terminology.
Thanks again dude!
Whoo! Thanks Rev... The part I didn't understand was the bringing across part. I pull my left paw up and further across my right paw side, and my right paw in towards my left. This allows the poi to then move out of the tangle and carry on with their spin.
What tangles are there? There's the hyperloop (paws at 6 and 12, bringing the tangle right across your body so it buzzsaws around the tangle point), that tangle you've just taught me, with paws at 9 and 3, I've seen butterfly tangles, buzzsaw tangles (which I can do sometimes), I've seen a mobile never ending tangle done by PureSock, but I'm eager to learn more. This one can be done anywhere around my body, but what other ones are there to do?
I like the terms airwrap and hyperloop, because I think I can understand and do them. However, they're all just tangles, and I've only just been introduced to this world, so correct me if I'm wrong in my terminology.
Thanks again dude!
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
BRONZE Member
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
HOP librarian
1,841 posts
Location: Prague, Czech. Republic
Posted:
You can trz horizontal tangles, they are good too.
:R
You can trz horizontal tangles, they are good too.
:R
POI THEO(R)IST
veteran
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
1,376 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
Try getting them to connect a bit closer to the head as well, 3/4 of the way down is a good starting point for wallplane airwraps.
Try getting them to connect a bit closer to the head as well, 3/4 of the way down is a good starting point for wallplane airwraps.
"Moo," said the happy cow.
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
*jumps in to disagree with rev, without actually explaining why*
well. mostly, anyway.
my basic airwrap is not your basic tangle. and thats the difference - cause an airwrap as i understand it IS transferrable to anywhere, and that makes them *really* easy to learn. but methinks its fruitless arguing cause we've done it before and i think our minds work too differently, and so approach everything from different angles. oh well
*jumps in to disagree with rev, without actually explaining why*
well. mostly, anyway.
my basic airwrap is not your basic tangle. and thats the difference - cause an airwrap as i understand it IS transferrable to anywhere, and that makes them *really* easy to learn. but methinks its fruitless arguing cause we've done it before and i think our minds work too differently, and so approach everything from different angles. oh well
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
bluecat..
I'm afraid I dont see the disagreement.. one can do an airwrap with much more than just tangles.. any nexus type will do.. (which is why I think the term lacks meaning.) So we agree there..
you also say they are transferable to anywhere.. again I agree.. what this has to do with anything I'm not really sure..
maybe its my talk of tangles with an airwrap question? I guess tangles are the easier of the 2 airwrap types and it was also the topic.. I didnt mean (if you are saying) that they were the only ones...
i'm sorry you feel you disagree blue.. we dont seem to be saying anything different..
bluecat..
I'm afraid I dont see the disagreement.. one can do an airwrap with much more than just tangles.. any nexus type will do.. (which is why I think the term lacks meaning.) So we agree there..
you also say they are transferable to anywhere.. again I agree.. what this has to do with anything I'm not really sure..
maybe its my talk of tangles with an airwrap question? I guess tangles are the easier of the 2 airwrap types and it was also the topic.. I didnt mean (if you are saying) that they were the only ones...
i'm sorry you feel you disagree blue.. we dont seem to be saying anything different..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
so.
for me, the word airwrap is incredibly uselful, because you can learn it, and then point at any place/cow/zebra and put it there.
the basic tange is not the basic airwrap. i pester this one a lot. but the thread was on tangles so i'll let it go.
anyway, the disagreement was in point one. and, as ever, what i see to be generally a needless overcomplication of something quite simple.
R
Written by: Rev
1- the word airwrap is a useless word applied to anything that involves the strings touching.. kinda like a kid learning the word cow, and then pointing to any animal and saying cow.. because of this, it makes it really hard to learn how to do an airwrap..
so.
for me, the word airwrap is incredibly uselful, because you can learn it, and then point at any place/cow/zebra and put it there.
Written by:
2- the basic tangle.. this happens between the arms.. with the left hand spinning buzzsaw and the right poi spinning in the right side plane, bring the right poi into the buzzsaw to the left of the left poi.. it should tanlge and spin there.. as long as you hold your hands.. you exit by bringing it out the side.. like out the left side..
the basic tange is not the basic airwrap. i pester this one a lot. but the thread was on tangles so i'll let it go.
anyway, the disagreement was in point one. and, as ever, what i see to be generally a needless overcomplication of something quite simple.
R
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
hey rob.. I'm not saying this to argue.. because I think we actually are on the same page this time.. if you dont hold the basic tangle but take it straight across, you get an airwrap that is linked for 1/2 a beat less than the airwrap you are thinking of.. it is the most basic airwrap.. however, it may also function longer... most people overlook this basic form of the airwrap (ie when taken straight across and not held).. Other people make the mistake of saying that the form taken straight across is also tangling on the outside..
I think I'll have some free time on friday to make a vid of this basic airwrap, the next up version you prefer, and a few other odd and end tangle bits..
I think our disgreement comes with the further assertions that come after this concept of the basic airwrap.. in which I derive meaninglessness and you see only simplicity.. which isnt part of this post..
hey rob.. I'm not saying this to argue.. because I think we actually are on the same page this time.. if you dont hold the basic tangle but take it straight across, you get an airwrap that is linked for 1/2 a beat less than the airwrap you are thinking of.. it is the most basic airwrap.. however, it may also function longer... most people overlook this basic form of the airwrap (ie when taken straight across and not held).. Other people make the mistake of saying that the form taken straight across is also tangling on the outside..
I think I'll have some free time on friday to make a vid of this basic airwrap, the next up version you prefer, and a few other odd and end tangle bits..
I think our disgreement comes with the further assertions that come after this concept of the basic airwrap.. in which I derive meaninglessness and you see only simplicity.. which isnt part of this post..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
sorry blue.. now videos today.. I've got too much thesis wok to do so that I can go to a halloween party saturday..
sorry blue.. now videos today.. I've got too much thesis wok to do so that I can go to a halloween party saturday..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
geek, level 1
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
5,300 posts
Location: everywhere
Posted:
*waits for vids before trying to clarify*
*waits for vids before trying to clarify*
Holistic Spinner (I hope)
BRONZE Member
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Bastard Newbie Messiah
1,269 posts
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA
Posted:
by bad.. typo.. that's supposed to read No not now..
by bad.. typo.. that's supposed to read No not now..
More useless information courtesy of Rev...
Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown
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