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yoni
yoni

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bideford and Bath
Member Since: 4th Jun 2005
Total posts: 3099
Posted:seeing as there are lots of people in the new moves thread and others talking bout fishtailing things (me being one of them) i thought i'd make a thread for it.

so waht can u fishtail? eh?

myself i can fishtail:-
juggling clubs,
devil sticks,
hand sticks,
umbrellas (closed),
pencil cases,
squash rackets
and of course staffs.


how bout you?


UCOF "evolution: Poi -> stick -> hoops -> devil stick -> juggling club -> juggling ball -> crayons."

Supergroovalsticprosifunkstication
In other words, it's the thumps bump


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:g'damn right!

(I was gonna write "damn straight!" but common sense prevented me. )


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:Written by: mcp


horizontal fishtails are impossible.





Not meaning to contradict you but well you're wrong ubbrollsmile



horzontal fishtails must be possible cos I can do them (one end stays above the arm one below, all on the back of the hand and all horzontal)



don't know quite what I need to say to convence you but ask me next time you see me and i'll show you


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:G'damn! Read the WHOLE THREAD!

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:I think I might actually see how this could work....

biggrin

I'll let you know if it ever actually gets to the working part smile


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Sargoth
newbie
Location: Arizona
Member Since: 15th Jun 2005
Total posts: 18
Posted:My fishtails are a bit iffy right now since I tend to forget to practice them, but I believe the technique used on MCPs video site has helped me a lot. Basically, practice the motion of the fishtail by breaking it into two wrist wraps, then practice moving your wrist instead of catching the staff. Voila, fish tails.

And no, I was not paid to plug MCP's site smile Though, I could be persuaded, hahaha.


I will teach you everything I know, save for my patented drop trick...


T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:Written by: mcp

I've explained this before but I'll do it again.

A vertical fistail has each end of the staff staying on it's own side while your hand stays under it's centre of gravity and propels it.

So in a horizontal fishtail, the up end has to stay above the plane of your arm, and the bottom end below it, while you keep your hand under the center of gravity of it. I assume you are going to keep your hand here or close to it, cos otherwise, it's going to fall.

Happily though, the staff is now mostly vertical, instead of mostly horizontal, so it's pretty hard to get your hand under the centre of gravity, that and the staff keep turning and trying to cut through your arm, because you've twisted the plane of the move, but gravity hasnt twisted with you.

So maybe you could do it for one beat, but it's not going to be easy, like a fishtail should be, and then your going to have to turn.

And if you do it with too many extra beats, it's going to be a curl, like devilstickers do.

And I'm just taliing censored now, I went and tried one and it was quite easy. I think it might be that I didn't take into account the idea of insides.... Well it's still not much like a fishtail anyway.



I persume by the rest of thread you ment that

Written by:
A vertical fistail has each end of the staff staying on it's own side while your hand stays under it's centre of gravity and propels it.

So in a horizontal fishtail, the up end has to stay above the plane of your arm, and the bottom end below it, while you keep your hand under the center of gravity of it. I assume you are going to keep your hand here or close to it, cos otherwise, it's going to fall.



yep no agrument with that

Written by:
Happily though, the staff is now mostly vertical, instead of mostly horizontal



hey that seemed to be plucked out of the air some what

Written by:
So maybe you could do it for one beat, but it's not going to be easy, like a fishtail should be, and then your going to have to turn.




well it's not that hard and can be keeped going competely horizontally without turning

the only one thing I would say about it is, it's not an even movment the hand spend alot longer on the down beat and then just pops the staff over the top of the arm for the up beat. But it's a horzontal fishtail not a vertical fishatail you would expect it to feel different.

anyhow am right your wrong so there tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: mcp

And I'm just talking censored now, I went and tried one and it was quite easy. I think it might be that I didn't take into account the idea of insides.... Well it's still not much like a fishtail anyway.



OMG what's this? Could I be quoting myself from earlier in the thread? Yeah, the one you didn't read? Yes I think I am! OMG!

So in other words, you're wrong. (poohead) and it's also quite easy to force a plane change from vertical to horizontal.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


T&B
T&B

Me
Location: London/Bristol
Member Since: 30th Aug 2003
Total posts: 607
Posted:humm di du di du I can't hear you la la la
(think I got away with that one)


Maybe I should change this too something abit nicer, humm no I still think your all Ccensoredt


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:mcp > Be carefull with "impossible" word, Im watching you smile

ps: Quoting self is ok, It meen that you know what you are talking about.



Brushing off a fine horse ubbrollsmile

EDITED_BY: Richee (1129727219)


POI THEO(R)IST


Fyre
Fyre

enthusiast
Location: Finland
Member Since: 19th Oct 2005
Total posts: 315
Posted:ok, i have read the whole thread and i have NO IDEA what a fishtail looks like. I have this weird picture in my head but my brains wont believe it.

So please help me, if you could explain it even more simply or post a clip???

weavesmiley


If we can`t live in peace then fu*k it, let`s die.
The owner of Chellybeans right arm!


Peace -Fyre-


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: Richee

ps: Quoting self is ok, It meen that you know what you are talking about.



that right there is a HUGE assumption tongue wink biggrin

everybody else, go to my website. See what a fishtail looks like. Come away dissapointed at the sheer pointlessness of a one beat contact move.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Well, there is that tongue

But then I'm not really a contact person, mostly thru a lack of being able to figure out anything that is more than a transition from hand to hand...

oh, i suck. i'm going back to throws lol. But I do see how i might learn to get an actual fishtail if i keep this up...

which makes meg useful,. amazingly enough. because she seems to have explained something when no one else could. who knew. i thought her sole purpose in life was to pretend she was cool and talk a lot of [censored]... wink


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

which makes meg useful,. amazingly enough. because she seems to have explained something when no one else could. who knew. i thought her sole purpose in life was to pretend she was cool and talk a lot of censored... wink



[censored], an american with a sense of humor, now I'm going to have to kill myself.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:I have a few swords you could borrow

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....


Devilstick_Russell
I like devilstick...
Location: Falmouth
Member Since: 10th May 2004
Total posts: 196
Posted:Errm.. sorry to make this thread vaugley serious, but i've just learnt fishtails with devilstick using the hand stick instad of my hand (i thought i better clarifiy that) which mushypea steve showed me once (he invented fishtails, good old steve) i've learnt them on both hands forwards. other than backwards fishtails what 'tricks' are there? Cheers for your help
p.s hi byrn hows not college going?


Does this site actually exist? Or am i talking to all my other personalities?


animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Russell, Dude!

Reverse is easier than forwards, in my opinion.

Anyway, come to a devilstick thread, and I will explain a few bits... Although... the same moves do apply to staff as well...

ok. The Furtner Fish. is a fishtail on both hands, one after the other. or buzzsaw, fishtail to right, back in, fishtail to left, back in, repeat, rinse etc...

transitions between forward. reverse fishtails with 180/360 degree turns and the like...

I find that fishtails are a great way to go into some contact moves as well. such as fishtail, wrist, elbow, halo, elbow, wrist, fishtail etc. (this reminds me, I must ask DsAds how to get into the SNES with a DS...

Catches into fishtails as well...

The list is quite long... biggrin


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.


Richee
HOP librarian
Location: Prague
Member Since: 15th Jan 2002
Total posts: 1841
Posted:Reverse do not meen backward. Reverse Fishtales you can do with doubles. Fishtale is something like a staff Reel or Figure8.

Try Fishtale Pendulums, something like the simple throwin one devilstick head between hands.

:R


POI THEO(R)IST


ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:Written by: Devilstick_Russell

which mushypea steve showed me once (he invented fishtails, good old steve)



um i think ull find fishtails have their origins in baton twirling .....

anyway some things u can do with fishtails pasted from here

Fishtail Family
The fishtail family finds its origin in baton twirling, and is usually performed on the back of the hand or wrist region, this movement is what is commonly referred to as fishtails. The fishtail movement causes the staff to move in a path such that it traces out a circle with each end of the staff resulting in two separate circles. The staff stays in contact with the part of the body that the fishtail is being performed on such that if it was performed perfectly it would be stationary relative to the body part.

Due to the dimensions of batons fishtails can be performed in front of or to the side of the body with minimal arm movements, the same is also true of short staffs. Performing fishtails with a long staff can be achieved with minimal arm movement on the side of the body however to do it in front of the body requires a much larger arm movement. For this reason when first learning fishtails it is recommended that they are first learnt on the side of the body. All of the movements can be performed in both the forwards and backwards direction, the forwards direction is where the staff is rotating away from you and backwards is where the staff is rotating towards you.

Vertical Fishtails
To learn both forwards and backwards vertical fishtails it is necessary to understand where the staff is going to be moving and how to keep the rhythm of the movement. The first step is to get a feel for the path that the staff is going to be moving. To do this first hold the staff in front of your body with both hands with your palms facing in the same direction roughly shoulder width apart. Then slowly guide the staff such that the right end of the staff creates a circle on the right hand side of your body and the left end of the staff creates a circle on the left hand side of your body. After becoming comfortable with this movement continue the motion of the staff, keep your upper body stationary and rotate your feet ninety degrees so that you doing the motion on the side of your body. These are the paths of the staff for all vertical fishtails.

Two Handed Fishtails
Resting the staff on the back of both hands spaced two hand widths apart move the staff through the fishtail movement, the second hand acts to stop the staff falling off.

One Beat Fishtails
Once you have a feel for the path that the staff is going to travel the next step is to learn the hand movement, starting with your palm facing down towards the ground trace out an infinity system in front of your body. When your palm is facing directly down to the ground this is when the staff is parallel to the ground. This is where you begin to transfer the staff from one side of your body to the other. If you try to transfer the staff to the other side of your body when the staff is not parallel to the ground it will slide off your hand this effect is most noticeable on forwards fishtails. To get the feel of how to move your hand relative to the staff start by passing the staff from back of one hand to the back of the other hand. Once this is occurring in a slow controlled manner when the staff comes over the hand that you want to learn the fishtail on turn one hundred and eighty degrees and carry the staff round on the back of your hand. Pass the staff from the back of the hand to the back of the other hand again until you are ready to turn back the opposite way with the staff on the same hand. This method can be used to learn both forwards and backwards fishtails. For example to learn backwards fishtails on your right hand the staff will be rotating anticlockwise in front of you, when the staff rolls over the back of your right hand your will turn clockwise one hundred and eighty degrees stepping either your left or right leg and carry the staff around on the back of your right hand. The staff will now be rotating clockwise in front of you, when the staff rolls over the back of your right hand you will step anti clockwise one hundred and eighty degrees and carry the staff back.

Once you have the feel for how to take the fishtail movement from one side of your body to the other you can do the method outlined above without the back hand to back hand passing in between turning from one side to the other. Once this motion has been made solid it can the same motion can be done but keeping your feet still. It is recommended that you work on increasing the number of beats you can get consistently rather than trying to go straight for continuous fishtails as this will help you to focus on good technique rather than lots of fishtails with poor technique. It is very important to get this solidly in both the forwards and backwards direction as this is fundamental to the rest of the movements outlined in this section.

Variations
Two beat fishtail - has a sneaky thumb reach under
Three beat fishtail - Moseph style requires a video
Elbow Fishtail
Forwards Elbow Fishtail Closed Arm
roll over back of hand draw hand into a tight closed horizontal elbow, then turn 180 degrees with arm. And back move arm in an arc shape so do a small throw type movement where the staff only just stays in contact with the arm
Forwards Elbow Fishtail Open Arm
Backwards Elbow Fishtail Closed Arm
Backwards Elbow Fishtail Open Arm
Shoulder Fishtail
Back of the Neck Fishtail (its do able ive seen it, its just stupidly hard)
Foot Fishtails - the secret is in the transition to the foot
Inverted Fishtails - staff is in position 5 with the fingers facing the person
Horizontal Fishtails

Vertical Fishtail Transitions

Transitions to Other Body Parts
Hand Fishtail to Elbow Roll

Fishtail to Opposite Direction Fishtail
Forwards Fishtail to Backwards Fishtail Roll
fishtailing to the side of you when staff comes infront of your body, bring opposite hand over the top so you end up back hand to back hand as the staff rolls onto opposite hand

Backwards Fishtail to Forwards Fishtail Roll
as fishtail comes behind your body place opposite hand on top back hand to backhand bring the staff up towards your head in the vertical plane behind your body then bring your hands down to your side to open behind you in a forwards fishtail

Fishtail to Angel Roll
as doing a reverse fishtail as you cross your body half way across go back to the direction you originally came from instead of finishing the movement

Transition on the same body part
Fishtail to Opposite Direction Fishtail
forward fishtail (rh) when its behind you turn right into backwards fishtail

Fishtail to propeller
forward fishtail rh propeller in front and to the right of you back into forwards fishtail
forward fishtail rh propeller in front of you into backwards
- same in reverse

Fishtail Carry
forwards fishtail carry spin 360 with the staff on the back of your hand
backwards fishtail carry spin 360 with the staff on the back of your hand

Fishtail fountain
backwards fishtail fountain
backwards inverted fishtail fountain

Fishtail to Horizontal Stall
horizontal stall to fishtail in opposite direction

Fishtail pop
Throw it for a spin in between changing sides


Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?


Lavatwilight
Lavatwilight

old hand
Location: Wellington somerset, UK
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 834
Posted:Russel!!!!!
firstly nice on the fishtails, i got them going staff on staff these days so almost like yours.

Not college ness is absoutly amazingly fun.
been doing the odd bit of performance stuff,
and lots of physics biggrin

your self??


Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film


Devilstick_Russell
I like devilstick...
Location: Falmouth
Member Since: 10th May 2004
Total posts: 196
Posted:English my friend in falmouth i've met sooooo many people who know oli one guyntold me to watch a video that i was actually in twas zher funny, [censored] im late for a lecture talk again soon sorry...

Does this site actually exist? Or am i talking to all my other personalities?


Devilstick_Russell
I like devilstick...
Location: Falmouth
Member Since: 10th May 2004
Total posts: 196
Posted:Ta da i've started a devil stick fishtail thread in 'other toys' The thread is here I really want to master fishtails of the devilstick basically because they are so rare no devil sticker has ever shown them to me and none of the books on devil stick i read when i was little talked about them.

Does this site actually exist? Or am i talking to all my other personalities?


TheApprovingNinja
TheApprovingNinja

From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 8th Jul 2003
Total posts: 371
Posted:dsads can do them very very well

Viva UGLY STAFF


bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:benjamen, just for that exhaustive run down of fishtail variants, this thread deserves a 'very informative' rating!

Non-Https Image Link


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


Rusto
Rusto

member
Location: Gold Coast, Qld
Member Since: 3rd Nov 2005
Total posts: 47
Posted:If you were to set the cats on fire, dead ones might be the go lolsign

Crime does not pay ... as well as politics.
A bowl of soup with some one you love is better than steak with some one you hate. Proverbs 15, 17


Devilstick_Russell
I like devilstick...
Location: Falmouth
Member Since: 10th May 2004
Total posts: 196
Posted:can anyone point me in the direction of some short staff fishtail videos? about 1 or 2 mins just to get some ideas from. Cheers if you can help

Does this site actually exist? Or am i talking to all my other personalities?


animatEd
animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK
Member Since: 31st Aug 2004
Total posts: 3540
Posted:Russell, you don't need any short staff vids, any normal staff vids will do. It's all pretty similar, excapt a devilstick is shorter, and that needs to be taken into account.

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.


Devilstick_Russell
I like devilstick...
Location: Falmouth
Member Since: 10th May 2004
Total posts: 196
Posted:Sorry man i meant short in length of time not length of staff, woops shoulda seen that confusion coming. I just wanna see whats possible and get inspired but i'm using the uni computers and really big downloads will arouse suspision and get me in trouble so i can't download three hours of staff or anything

Does this site actually exist? Or am i talking to all my other personalities?


Lavatwilight
Lavatwilight

old hand
Location: Wellington somerset, UK
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 834
Posted:russell, it becoming christmass soon, any fishy taily things you would like to see, just ask, and make sure we meet up somewhere, theres bound to be a big party some where as well, so stickage of the diddy and big varity, and lots of drinking in there as well somewhere???

if not then i can point you to a few videos (if they're still there)

try ben-ja-men's gallery

or megs site for a bit of fishtaily stuff


Drawings by chalk minds, strech between the stars

Kyle Mclean-
Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film


Harry_Potter
Harry_Potter

ToadStool Circus Acts
Location: Derbyshire
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2005
Total posts: 181
Posted:Megs video tutorial i think has to be the best. Ive finally just got fishtails now. I have to do the moves in the order Meg does on her video but ive done them. Now just to master it.

Yo-yoist, Staffer and 3 Ball and Club Juggling
'Its people like us, who make them feel talentless.'


mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:biggrin clap clap clap clap

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Page: 123