Forums > Social Discussion > Having kids young- and society....
Login/Join to ParticipateDreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
So I found out in the last couple days that my mere existence is a huge embaressment to my family. Both sides, altho for slightly different reasons. My mum's side its very strictly because of my age. Basically, my mum and dad were 20 and 19 respectively when I was born. And this makes my grandparents quite young as well.... altho not as young, they were much more like 25 & 28 when my mum was born and she's the eldest living child. Its only recently that waiting to have children has become more and more of a thing (indeed on my father's side, where he is not even the eldest child, my great grandparents are 83 & 84... ) but apparently in "well-educated" families its still a very big deal. And the fact that I exist bothers them a lot. :/
It does put some things in perspective, and to be honest they're the nicest part of the family to me, my mum's parents. But I have to wonder, why be embaressed about that? My mom has three degrees, my dad has two, I've not turned out like a mutant or in jail, most of what they "care about" has been taken care of... why can't they just be happy with what they have and get on with things? For gods sakes, at this point, whats frickin wrong with it? (I'm more than half my parents ages btw.... for some perspective, as i'm quite young all things considered!)
Oh, and they've pretty much stated that i'm not to have children any time in the forseeable future (like the next decade or so). Thanks guys... :/ I mean... get over it? It happened over twenty years ago..... I know its still affecting their lives but havn't they learned to see things as just being like that by now?
So I found out in the last couple days that my mere existence is a huge embaressment to my family. Both sides, altho for slightly different reasons. My mum's side its very strictly because of my age. Basically, my mum and dad were 20 and 19 respectively when I was born. And this makes my grandparents quite young as well.... altho not as young, they were much more like 25 & 28 when my mum was born and she's the eldest living child. Its only recently that waiting to have children has become more and more of a thing (indeed on my father's side, where he is not even the eldest child, my great grandparents are 83 & 84... ) but apparently in "well-educated" families its still a very big deal. And the fact that I exist bothers them a lot. :/
It does put some things in perspective, and to be honest they're the nicest part of the family to me, my mum's parents. But I have to wonder, why be embaressed about that? My mom has three degrees, my dad has two, I've not turned out like a mutant or in jail, most of what they "care about" has been taken care of... why can't they just be happy with what they have and get on with things? For gods sakes, at this point, whats frickin wrong with it? (I'm more than half my parents ages btw.... for some perspective, as i'm quite young all things considered!)
Oh, and they've pretty much stated that i'm not to have children any time in the forseeable future (like the next decade or so). Thanks guys... :/ I mean... get over it? It happened over twenty years ago..... I know its still affecting their lives but havn't they learned to see things as just being like that by now?
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
GOLD Member
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
still can't believe it's not butter
6,978 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posted:
the decision ultimately rests on the parents of the child, everyone else's opinions (with respect) is secondary, imho!
hope ya had a safe yom kippur, ky!
the decision ultimately rests on the parents of the child, everyone else's opinions (with respect) is secondary, imho!
hope ya had a safe yom kippur, ky!
Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
I did
Thanks bender.
Family's just a bit weird :/
I didn't quite pull of the fasting thing properly tho as I essentially fasted the prior 48 hours unintentionally..... :/ I needs to pay more attention to me!
I did
Thanks bender. Family's just a bit weird :/
I didn't quite pull of the fasting thing properly tho as I essentially fasted the prior 48 hours unintentionally..... :/ I needs to pay more attention to me!
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Carpal \'Tunnel
5,814 posts
Location: Perth, Australia
Posted:
Thats just so weird. I love the way that my husbands mum is so young and can help out heaps and she is so energetic and the kids have granparents and great grandparents.
Its unreal the way ages become blended and Aunts have kids the same age as their neices and grandparents are young enough to enjoy thir kids in the best ways.
Like I said I cannot undestand where they are all coming from and I love the way you have all been blessed with fertility so young instead of waiting and maybe having problems.
Sometimes when weddings are oldfashioned shotgun there is embarrassment but the marriages are still apprently working
My husband remembers the day his sister did the sums of her birthday and the wedding day. Ironically she was very premature, by 10 weeks or so so the discrepancy was greater.
Enjoy your family and their quirks, they seem to love you heaps.
Thats just so weird. I love the way that my husbands mum is so young and can help out heaps and she is so energetic and the kids have granparents and great grandparents.
Its unreal the way ages become blended and Aunts have kids the same age as their neices and grandparents are young enough to enjoy thir kids in the best ways.
Like I said I cannot undestand where they are all coming from and I love the way you have all been blessed with fertility so young instead of waiting and maybe having problems.
Sometimes when weddings are oldfashioned shotgun there is embarrassment but the marriages are still apprently working
My husband remembers the day his sister did the sums of her birthday and the wedding day. Ironically she was very premature, by 10 weeks or so so the discrepancy was greater.
Enjoy your family and their quirks, they seem to love you heaps.
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu
SILVER Member
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
I make my own people.
607 posts
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Posted:
Staying on topic is sometimes a struggle... this thread seems to be about having children early, with a nod to Yom Kippur, and it's on a poi site.
Coincidentally, I just got home from a Yom Kippur afterparty at which I and another guy practiced with our poi, and my wife and had two children by the time we were 22.
I have grown up in a very family oriented environment. My parents had me when they were 20, and they had my 8th sibling less than a year before I had my first child. Most of my friends growing up came from families that had between 4 and 14 children. My personal experiences have shown that, under the right circumstances, getting married and having children while young can be best for both parent and child.
Think for a moment about the modern trend toward postponing marriage. Conventional wisdom at the moment says that you should wait until after you have gotten as many degrees as possible and established a successful career before getting married.
However, by the time two people have done this they have already grown accustomed to independent lives. To join together is an incredible upheaval physically, financially, and emotionally. Trying to cleave together two very mature, independent personalities is like trying to twist together two mature, independent trees. It can be done, but there is likely to be a lot of friction and painful splintering.
On the other hand, marrying young is like bending two saplings together. They easily twist around each other, and as they grow together they will become unified in a very strong bond.
Having children early in life is somewhat similar. Although modern society has established new norms for us to live by, the fact is that we are biologically designed to adapt to certain scenarios best at certain stages in life. Humans are physiologically designed to marry and begin having children young, and our brains are naturally capable of adapting to this.
However, modern upbringing has screwed with our natural tendencies. If we were living a thousand years ago, we would have learned most of what we needed to know about how to live by the time we finished puberty. Modern upbringing, however, has extended childhood further and further. A thousand years ago, we would have been brought up as infants, then children, then adults. Now we’ve extended these stages and added new categories such as adolescent, teenager, college student, and graduate student.
I’m 23, I just finished a degree in Business Administration, and I have started law school. It is painfully obvious that a lot of my fellow students decided to go to law school not because they want to be lawyers, but because they’ve spent 20 years being treated like children and they haven’t figured out how to be an adult. They haven’t developed the skills needed to be an adult, so they decide they would like to have another 3 years of adults telling them how to live their lives.
I’m not knocking higher education. Obviously I’m pursuing it myself. I’m merely pointing it out as an example of how modern society’s norms conflict with the way our bodies and minds are designed to develop.
At age 18 a man’s mind stops it’s growth stage and his sexual performance peaks, yet we still think of him as an irresponsible kid who will need another 4 to 7 years of training and adult supervision before he can be released into society. Our modern society has grown so complex that it is difficult to learn high level skills (such as being a lawyer) by the time you are 18. As a result, we get well trained people who are screwed up because they didn’t have the opportunity to grow up when their bodies and minds were ready.
My subculture has tried to correct some of these problems by encouraging people to consider starting a family as an integral part of growing up. Instead of forsaking marriage and children in favor of degrees and career moves, I was encouraged to pursue them simultaneously. Or, if a choice has to be made between one and the other, higher education and a “successful” career should be neglected in favor of developing a happy, stable family.
This is a lengthy explanation for my recommendation that you not fear having children early. A marriage between two people who have worked many years developing independent single life is difficult. In the same way, having a child after years of developing a childless life is difficult. We are told that higher education, a high powered career, a nice house in the suburbs, and a few years of marriage are prerequisites to having a child. We think that these things will somehow make childrearing better. Unfortunately, the pursuit of those things trains us to NOT be parents. By the time we are able to get to that point in life (if ever) a child would be a disruptive inconvenience.
My subculture rejects this philosophy, and embraces parenthood as one of the most valuable parts of life because it is better for the parents and for the children. Having parents who are well educated and rich does not guarantee a happy childhood. Having parents who have built their careers around their families (instead of the other way around) is more likely to provide the best environment for childrearing.
One key to this is to start young. If you wait til your thirty five to have your first child, you will have become accustomed to being childless and the transition will be difficult. If you start a family earlier, it may hamper your ability to develop a career, but you will have a distinct physiological and emotional advantage in developing a great family.
Disclaimer: This is just my personal opinion, and comes from my unique situation in life. Don’t take this as a blanket statement that all kids should run out and start breeding like rabbits at the first opportunity. I’m merely suggesting a reconsideration of current norms, and recommending a potential alternative. There is a growing movement (sometimes called Natalism) that is beginning to reconsider how we view family life and children. Like spinning fire… it’s cutting edge stuff, not for the feint of heart.
…Hmm, I like how I tied it all back into poi in the last sentence.
Staying on topic is sometimes a struggle... this thread seems to be about having children early, with a nod to Yom Kippur, and it's on a poi site.
Coincidentally, I just got home from a Yom Kippur afterparty at which I and another guy practiced with our poi, and my wife and had two children by the time we were 22.
I have grown up in a very family oriented environment. My parents had me when they were 20, and they had my 8th sibling less than a year before I had my first child. Most of my friends growing up came from families that had between 4 and 14 children. My personal experiences have shown that, under the right circumstances, getting married and having children while young can be best for both parent and child.
Think for a moment about the modern trend toward postponing marriage. Conventional wisdom at the moment says that you should wait until after you have gotten as many degrees as possible and established a successful career before getting married.
However, by the time two people have done this they have already grown accustomed to independent lives. To join together is an incredible upheaval physically, financially, and emotionally. Trying to cleave together two very mature, independent personalities is like trying to twist together two mature, independent trees. It can be done, but there is likely to be a lot of friction and painful splintering.
On the other hand, marrying young is like bending two saplings together. They easily twist around each other, and as they grow together they will become unified in a very strong bond.
Having children early in life is somewhat similar. Although modern society has established new norms for us to live by, the fact is that we are biologically designed to adapt to certain scenarios best at certain stages in life. Humans are physiologically designed to marry and begin having children young, and our brains are naturally capable of adapting to this.
However, modern upbringing has screwed with our natural tendencies. If we were living a thousand years ago, we would have learned most of what we needed to know about how to live by the time we finished puberty. Modern upbringing, however, has extended childhood further and further. A thousand years ago, we would have been brought up as infants, then children, then adults. Now we’ve extended these stages and added new categories such as adolescent, teenager, college student, and graduate student.
I’m 23, I just finished a degree in Business Administration, and I have started law school. It is painfully obvious that a lot of my fellow students decided to go to law school not because they want to be lawyers, but because they’ve spent 20 years being treated like children and they haven’t figured out how to be an adult. They haven’t developed the skills needed to be an adult, so they decide they would like to have another 3 years of adults telling them how to live their lives.
I’m not knocking higher education. Obviously I’m pursuing it myself. I’m merely pointing it out as an example of how modern society’s norms conflict with the way our bodies and minds are designed to develop.
At age 18 a man’s mind stops it’s growth stage and his sexual performance peaks, yet we still think of him as an irresponsible kid who will need another 4 to 7 years of training and adult supervision before he can be released into society. Our modern society has grown so complex that it is difficult to learn high level skills (such as being a lawyer) by the time you are 18. As a result, we get well trained people who are screwed up because they didn’t have the opportunity to grow up when their bodies and minds were ready.
My subculture has tried to correct some of these problems by encouraging people to consider starting a family as an integral part of growing up. Instead of forsaking marriage and children in favor of degrees and career moves, I was encouraged to pursue them simultaneously. Or, if a choice has to be made between one and the other, higher education and a “successful” career should be neglected in favor of developing a happy, stable family.
This is a lengthy explanation for my recommendation that you not fear having children early. A marriage between two people who have worked many years developing independent single life is difficult. In the same way, having a child after years of developing a childless life is difficult. We are told that higher education, a high powered career, a nice house in the suburbs, and a few years of marriage are prerequisites to having a child. We think that these things will somehow make childrearing better. Unfortunately, the pursuit of those things trains us to NOT be parents. By the time we are able to get to that point in life (if ever) a child would be a disruptive inconvenience.
My subculture rejects this philosophy, and embraces parenthood as one of the most valuable parts of life because it is better for the parents and for the children. Having parents who are well educated and rich does not guarantee a happy childhood. Having parents who have built their careers around their families (instead of the other way around) is more likely to provide the best environment for childrearing.
One key to this is to start young. If you wait til your thirty five to have your first child, you will have become accustomed to being childless and the transition will be difficult. If you start a family earlier, it may hamper your ability to develop a career, but you will have a distinct physiological and emotional advantage in developing a great family.
Disclaimer: This is just my personal opinion, and comes from my unique situation in life. Don’t take this as a blanket statement that all kids should run out and start breeding like rabbits at the first opportunity. I’m merely suggesting a reconsideration of current norms, and recommending a potential alternative. There is a growing movement (sometimes called Natalism) that is beginning to reconsider how we view family life and children. Like spinning fire… it’s cutting edge stuff, not for the feint of heart.
…Hmm, I like how I tied it all back into poi in the last sentence.
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
wow, good stuff!
personally though, i think a lot of this stuff just has to do with being honest with yourself. I know it's really impossible to no be affected by sociaety - but the thing is that everyone is different.
my parents had their first baby when my mum was 21....that's my age now, but as far as i can see i don't want to have children ever. i'm prepared for the possibility that my feelings might change, but mostly i can't stand kids - so probably not a good idea to start now!!! (plus i don't think i really have the choice unless i somehow con adam in to not noticing!)
ou just have to work out what you want....there can be as many theories about what's healthy, what's normal, what's most sensible...but at the end of the day you just have to look in your heart.
also....my parents are young, & i was always pretty proud of that...it meant they still had some idea what i was going through while a lot of my friends' parents seemed to be pretty out of touch in a lot of ways.
wow, good stuff!
personally though, i think a lot of this stuff just has to do with being honest with yourself. I know it's really impossible to no be affected by sociaety - but the thing is that everyone is different.
my parents had their first baby when my mum was 21....that's my age now, but as far as i can see i don't want to have children ever. i'm prepared for the possibility that my feelings might change, but mostly i can't stand kids - so probably not a good idea to start now!!! (plus i don't think i really have the choice unless i somehow con adam in to not noticing!)
ou just have to work out what you want....there can be as many theories about what's healthy, what's normal, what's most sensible...but at the end of the day you just have to look in your heart.
also....my parents are young, & i was always pretty proud of that...it meant they still had some idea what i was going through while a lot of my friends' parents seemed to be pretty out of touch in a lot of ways.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Pair up yes, marry no.
Whilst it is true that child birth in youth might be more 'natural' in youth this is not a reason to have children in youth. Many people want no children at all. It obviously a completely 'unnatural' choice but fair game to them I say. People should enjoy their youth rather than bowing to evolution's tyrannical whip and just have kids as soon as possible.
Basicly what I'm saying is that people should make the choice based on what will make them (and any resulting offspring) happiest.
Written by: Patriarch917
Humans are physiologically designed to marry...
Pair up yes, marry no.
Written by: Patriarch917
...and begin having children young
Whilst it is true that child birth in youth might be more 'natural' in youth this is not a reason to have children in youth. Many people want no children at all. It obviously a completely 'unnatural' choice but fair game to them I say. People should enjoy their youth rather than bowing to evolution's tyrannical whip and just have kids as soon as possible.
Basicly what I'm saying is that people should make the choice based on what will make them (and any resulting offspring) happiest.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
we have evolved beyond a lot of things that nature tells us to do....like having the ability to be altruistic which (according to some biologists) is technically impossible. lol
part of the joy of being human is having choice over our biological urges. sometimes they are fab & we should go with them. sometimes they're best learned about and then totally contradicted!
Written by: jeff(fake)
People should enjoy their youth rather than bowing to evolution's tyrannical whip and just have kids as soon as possible.
we have evolved beyond a lot of things that nature tells us to do....like having the ability to be altruistic which (according to some biologists) is technically impossible. lol
part of the joy of being human is having choice over our biological urges. sometimes they are fab & we should go with them. sometimes they're best learned about and then totally contradicted!
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
Dreamer
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
4,308 posts
Location: York, England
Posted:
I'm not really fussed about anyone making my own decisions for me... I would love to be able to have children as young as possible, but there's some missing things, like a stable relationship, which really have to come first. I just can't understand why my family is still embarressed that I exist more than twenty years later!
At this point I'm getting an oppurtunity to be young,..... for a first time.. next year, if I don't mess things up. So I'm quite looking to take it But after a year or two of that, I'm sure I shall be ready to re-grow up, and I'm really hoping to have found someone by then and be able to look at family type things...
But again... I'm glad there's people out there who ...well.. agree with me! I think having short generations is actually really nice. There's a lot of good things about it, and I think i learned a lot more running around with my relatives and having to take care of myself and such at a younger age than I would have in a "normal" family. I think I was a lot better prepared for life, if a touch more cynical (but this has more to do with their views).
I don't know that it was the best thing for my mom, but my dad seems happy enough that i exist (I'm an only child, depsite how young I was had. I belive it wasn't possible for my mum to safely have another). But my grandparents seem so unable to get over it... dah, i'm ranting, i'm sorry. my families just weird anyway....
great posts btw
I'm not really fussed about anyone making my own decisions for me... I would love to be able to have children as young as possible, but there's some missing things, like a stable relationship, which really have to come first. I just can't understand why my family is still embarressed that I exist more than twenty years later!
At this point I'm getting an oppurtunity to be young,..... for a first time.. next year, if I don't mess things up. So I'm quite looking to take it
But after a year or two of that, I'm sure I shall be ready to re-grow up, and I'm really hoping to have found someone by then and be able to look at family type things... But again... I'm glad there's people out there who ...well.. agree with me! I think having short generations is actually really nice. There's a lot of good things about it, and I think i learned a lot more running around with my relatives and having to take care of myself and such at a younger age than I would have in a "normal" family. I think I was a lot better prepared for life, if a touch more cynical (but this has more to do with their views).
I don't know that it was the best thing for my mom, but my dad seems happy enough that i exist (I'm an only child, depsite how young I was had. I belive it wasn't possible for my mum to safely have another). But my grandparents seem so unable to get over it... dah, i'm ranting, i'm sorry. my families just weird anyway....
great posts btw
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
IMO age is irrelevant to whether you should have a child.
Do you anticipate a stable income for the next 10 years?
Do you have a house, either rented or owned, that is livable in for at least 4-5 years?
What's your relationship like? How long have you been together/married?
All of these things are significant factors in whether people should have children. you can be 45 or 20, it makes little difference (apart from the increased odds of complications that comes with aging).
2 adults in a stable environment, both with jobs and a house: Pretty much ideal.
2 teenagers with part time jobs and college courses: Not so good (Not that they are bad people, or incapable of raising a child. It means that the child is in a less secure environment, which IMO is a bad thing).
1 parent with a child/ren, living on benefits, no job:
Now I KNOW that there are single parents out there, some of whom had their kids when they were quite young. This is not me saying "You're bad parents". This is me saying what my ideal relationship would look like if/when I have children of my own. I don't deny that you're trying your damned hardest to raise your kids in the best possible way, or that it's incredibly difficult. All I'm saying is, if you could imagine a perfect setting for your child to grow up, which of the above cases would you prefer?
IMO age is irrelevant to whether you should have a child.
Do you anticipate a stable income for the next 10 years?
Do you have a house, either rented or owned, that is livable in for at least 4-5 years?
What's your relationship like? How long have you been together/married?
All of these things are significant factors in whether people should have children. you can be 45 or 20, it makes little difference (apart from the increased odds of complications that comes with aging).
2 adults in a stable environment, both with jobs and a house: Pretty much ideal.
2 teenagers with part time jobs and college courses: Not so good (Not that they are bad people, or incapable of raising a child. It means that the child is in a less secure environment, which IMO is a bad thing).
1 parent with a child/ren, living on benefits, no job:
Now I KNOW that there are single parents out there, some of whom had their kids when they were quite young. This is not me saying "You're bad parents". This is me saying what my ideal relationship would look like if/when I have children of my own. I don't deny that you're trying your damned hardest to raise your kids in the best possible way, or that it's incredibly difficult. All I'm saying is, if you could imagine a perfect setting for your child to grow up, which of the above cases would you prefer?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
12 year olds then? It's perfectly possible.
Written by: Sethis
IMO age is irrelevant to whether you should have a child.
12 year olds then? It's perfectly possible.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
if you look at the rest of the post it goes on to say..
"Do you anticipate a stable income for the next 10 years?
Do you have a house, either rented or owned, that is livable in for at least 4-5 years?
What's your relationship like? How long have you been together/married?"
how many 12 yr olds do you know who have that?
if you look at the rest of the post it goes on to say..
"Do you anticipate a stable income for the next 10 years?
Do you have a house, either rented or owned, that is livable in for at least 4-5 years?
What's your relationship like? How long have you been together/married?"
how many 12 yr olds do you know who have that?
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Not many granted but it's possible in other societies where children are treated much differently. My point is that there is a level of maturity that should be reached before people think about raising offspring.
Written by: Tao Star
if you look at the rest of the post it goes on to say..
"Do you anticipate a stable income for the next 10 years?
Do you have a house, either rented or owned, that is livable in for at least 4-5 years?
What's your relationship like? How long have you been together/married?"
how many 12 yr olds do you know who have that?
Not many granted but it's possible in other societies where children are treated much differently. My point is that there is a level of maturity that should be reached before people think about raising offspring.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
ok, it also goes on to say this...
"All of these things are significant factors in whether people should have children. you can be 45 or 20, it makes little difference (apart from the increased odds of complications that comes with aging)."
i don't think the purpose of that post was to promote children having children, more that it doesn't matter if you're 20 or 45.
i generally find it more useful if posts are quoted in context, saves someone else from just having to re-post the entire thing to explain it
ok, it also goes on to say this...
"All of these things are significant factors in whether people should have children. you can be 45 or 20, it makes little difference (apart from the increased odds of complications that comes with aging)."
i don't think the purpose of that post was to promote children having children, more that it doesn't matter if you're 20 or 45.
i generally find it more useful if posts are quoted in context, saves someone else from just having to re-post the entire thing to explain it
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Well I also said in another topic (which I'm sure jeff(fake) has read, and in fact, posted in) about sex that I don't think people should be having sex at all before they're mature, never mind raising kids.
Well I also said in another topic (which I'm sure jeff(fake) has read, and in fact, posted in) about sex that I don't think people should be having sex at all before they're mature, never mind raising kids.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
But that wasn't what your post back there was saying. In any case it's irrelevent since it seems we both agree that age is relevent when deciding to have kids.
Written by: Sethis
Well I also said in another topic (which I'm sure jeff(fake) has read, and in fact, posted in) about sex that I don't think people should be having sex at all before they're mature, never mind raising kids.
But that wasn't what your post back there was saying. In any case it's irrelevent since it seems we both agree that age is relevent when deciding to have kids.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
member
57 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
member
57 posts
Location: London, United Kingdom
Posted:
I have a friend that is nearly 23. She has a 3 year old little girl and a 8 month year old little boy. There are no Dad's present. You can tell that she struggles, she was just getting back into the swing of having a normal life when she fell pregnant again.
Quite amazing to watch how she deals with things.
All of her friends are there for her and I am god mother to her little boy and therefore feel drawn to helping her as much as possible. It is hard though, I live bout an hours drive away from her and coz of work and all find it hard to spend as much time helping as I can.
But she is a great mother and does everything she can for both her kids. And she is great at it. Just wish she would be more carefull in future.
I have a friend that is nearly 23. She has a 3 year old little girl and a 8 month year old little boy. There are no Dad's present. You can tell that she struggles, she was just getting back into the swing of having a normal life when she fell pregnant again.
Quite amazing to watch how she deals with things.
All of her friends are there for her and I am god mother to her little boy and therefore feel drawn to helping her as much as possible. It is hard though, I live bout an hours drive away from her and coz of work and all find it hard to spend as much time helping as I can.
But she is a great mother and does everything she can for both her kids. And she is great at it. Just wish she would be more carefull in future.
Dance like no one is watching, Sing like no one is listening, live your life the way that you see fit
GOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
My mum was on her third marriage by the time she had us kids - she was 34 when she had me, and soon after got diagnosed with angina, plus she's had arthitis since she was a teenager.
She couldn't run around after us like most parents do, but she had good days when she'd briefly play tennis out the garden with us, but not for long. My father left when I was about four, so he didn't play a big part in our childhood. I had my two kids at 18 and 23, and I'm glad I did as I'm fit and healthy and have lots of energy to play and run about with them (or as the case may be after them)
There are four of us - so we had playmates, but we still never got to run around with our mum, which is a pity as I have so much fun with my own kids now.
There are pro's and con's to having kids early/later in life,
If you have them early you have to grow up pretty darn fast and become responsible. You can't go out partying and drinking, you're social life becomes non-existant.
However, you can join in sporty activities with them, (i 'm assuming) you'll understand that generation more as the age gap will be less.
If you're having them later, you can party with mates when you're younger, lead a dependant life, get a career etc but when older you could risk older mum pregnancy complications like downs syndrome in the baby etc, also having to run around after a toddler is less fun in middle age, and there's a chance you wont see much of grandchildren either.
There's my two cents
My mum was on her third marriage by the time she had us kids - she was 34 when she had me, and soon after got diagnosed with angina, plus she's had arthitis since she was a teenager.
She couldn't run around after us like most parents do, but she had good days when she'd briefly play tennis out the garden with us, but not for long. My father left when I was about four, so he didn't play a big part in our childhood. I had my two kids at 18 and 23, and I'm glad I did as I'm fit and healthy and have lots of energy to play and run about with them (or as the case may be after them)
There are four of us - so we had playmates, but we still never got to run around with our mum, which is a pity as I have so much fun with my own kids now.
There are pro's and con's to having kids early/later in life,
If you have them early you have to grow up pretty darn fast and become responsible. You can't go out partying and drinking, you're social life becomes non-existant.
However, you can join in sporty activities with them, (i 'm assuming) you'll understand that generation more as the age gap will be less.
If you're having them later, you can party with mates when you're younger, lead a dependant life, get a career etc but when older you could risk older mum pregnancy complications like downs syndrome in the baby etc, also having to run around after a toddler is less fun in middle age, and there's a chance you wont see much of grandchildren either.
There's my two cents
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
The part of an "ideal" makes me laugh. It's great in theory but those are not steadies. You can think you have a home for the next 4-5 years and have a fire sweep through it. You can have a job for years and suddenly be laid off. You can have a steady partner and one day after the child is born realize s/he is not really a partner at all, but a mere draining entity. NONE of those things should be realied upon.
I am also not so fond of the mother on assistance= sad thing...mainly because I had to do it.
I had my son (surprise, not planned) when I was 21 and looked about 17. I had been in a long term relationship for a couple years at that point. He walked into the hospital the morning after Noah was born with adoption papers and a lawyer and told me to sign. I wouldn't (debated it and knew it wasn't in me to do so). We have not seen, heard, or gotten money from him since (and that is the way I want it).
I had been living in an apartment for 3 years at that time. I had 3 jobs, all of which I had been working for at least a year if not longer. And with the birth of my son, the leaving of the spermdonor (as we now call him) none of that mattered because I couldn't maintain it all alone. I moved back to my home town, a very small town with small town ideals on families, where I would have a support structure of friends and some family. I went on state aide, went back to school and worked an internship all the while holding my head up to the whispers and contemptive looks of every bitty I ever walked past when I took my son out.
And it was worth it. All of it. I am stronger. I got away from an abusive situation. I have a clearer path in my life and the best part is my son...no doubts about that. It wasn't easy and I spent many nights in exhausted, frustrated tears, but it was worth it.
And whether or not I am an embarassment to my family...probably. I am in every other way. I just don't care.
I have found there were many benefits to having a child young.
I had the energy and the stamina to chase him and keep up with all I needed to do.
I learned to be responsible and learned to focus which helped me tremendously in my studies.
I have such improved self-esteem because of it. I know myself and that my capabilities are limitless...and I learned all that in a time when I won't be like so many modern women who at 40 look back on their lives and wonder if they really could have done anything (I deal with them alot).
And I had the chance to learn and explore and grow with him and not have to focus on the husband, the job, and all these things that "grown ups" get bogged down by and overlook their children for. As a child myself (and I was) I stopped and spent those times with him where everything seemed like magic, and really embraced and learned from that perspective to see the world like that again. If I had my first child now (I just turned 32 yesterday) I am not sure I would be able to recognize it. And he is 10 now. Many of our friends are just having kids. They all stay at home because of the children and have gotten all worn out and tired from it already. I had/have this "have child will travel" attitude that was easily matched with my youthful energy. And now that he is older and things have changed for me...I can still travel with him, and now I enjoy it even more because my son and I talk about things along the way. By the time he is 18 and off to the military/college/whatever he chooses...I will still be young enough that if I want to go back to school and start over...I could. I LOVE that.
I wouldn't tell everyone who is 21 to go out and have a child. I think there are alot of people who shouldn't at all but I would never rechoose my path either, as it was the best for me.
And that is the point. It is the best for those in the situation, and to be embarrassed, bothered, humiliated or in anyway put out by something like this is incredibly selfish and stupid and not worthy of a second thought or drop of energy.
The part of an "ideal" makes me laugh. It's great in theory but those are not steadies. You can think you have a home for the next 4-5 years and have a fire sweep through it. You can have a job for years and suddenly be laid off. You can have a steady partner and one day after the child is born realize s/he is not really a partner at all, but a mere draining entity. NONE of those things should be realied upon.
I am also not so fond of the mother on assistance= sad thing...mainly because I had to do it.
I had my son (surprise, not planned) when I was 21 and looked about 17. I had been in a long term relationship for a couple years at that point. He walked into the hospital the morning after Noah was born with adoption papers and a lawyer and told me to sign. I wouldn't (debated it and knew it wasn't in me to do so). We have not seen, heard, or gotten money from him since (and that is the way I want it).
I had been living in an apartment for 3 years at that time. I had 3 jobs, all of which I had been working for at least a year if not longer. And with the birth of my son, the leaving of the spermdonor (as we now call him) none of that mattered because I couldn't maintain it all alone. I moved back to my home town, a very small town with small town ideals on families, where I would have a support structure of friends and some family. I went on state aide, went back to school and worked an internship all the while holding my head up to the whispers and contemptive looks of every bitty I ever walked past when I took my son out.
And it was worth it. All of it. I am stronger. I got away from an abusive situation. I have a clearer path in my life and the best part is my son...no doubts about that. It wasn't easy and I spent many nights in exhausted, frustrated tears, but it was worth it.
And whether or not I am an embarassment to my family...probably. I am in every other way. I just don't care.
I have found there were many benefits to having a child young.
I had the energy and the stamina to chase him and keep up with all I needed to do.
I learned to be responsible and learned to focus which helped me tremendously in my studies.
I have such improved self-esteem because of it. I know myself and that my capabilities are limitless...and I learned all that in a time when I won't be like so many modern women who at 40 look back on their lives and wonder if they really could have done anything (I deal with them alot).
And I had the chance to learn and explore and grow with him and not have to focus on the husband, the job, and all these things that "grown ups" get bogged down by and overlook their children for. As a child myself (and I was) I stopped and spent those times with him where everything seemed like magic, and really embraced and learned from that perspective to see the world like that again. If I had my first child now (I just turned 32 yesterday) I am not sure I would be able to recognize it. And he is 10 now. Many of our friends are just having kids. They all stay at home because of the children and have gotten all worn out and tired from it already. I had/have this "have child will travel" attitude that was easily matched with my youthful energy. And now that he is older and things have changed for me...I can still travel with him, and now I enjoy it even more because my son and I talk about things along the way. By the time he is 18 and off to the military/college/whatever he chooses...I will still be young enough that if I want to go back to school and start over...I could. I LOVE that.
I wouldn't tell everyone who is 21 to go out and have a child. I think there are alot of people who shouldn't at all but I would never rechoose my path either, as it was the best for me.
And that is the point. It is the best for those in the situation, and to be embarrassed, bothered, humiliated or in anyway put out by something like this is incredibly selfish and stupid and not worthy of a second thought or drop of energy.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Hang on, my mother had me when she was 34, and I've seen my grandmother for 18 years... and probably many years to come.
Possibly what you mean is "you won't see much of Great-Grandchildren"?
Written by: TinklePants
and there's a chance you wont see much of grandchildren either.
Hang on, my mother had me when she was 34, and I've seen my grandmother for 18 years... and probably many years to come.
Possibly what you mean is "you won't see much of Great-Grandchildren"?
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
My Grandad wasn't quiet that age when he started having children but he now has about 6 great grandchildren (and about 18 grand-children). Long life does run in my family (
) so mabey my view on the right age is slightly skewed.
Written by: SethisWritten by: TinklePants
and there's a chance you wont see much of grandchildren either.
Hang on, my mother had me when she was 34, and I've seen my grandmother for 18 years... and probably many years to come.
Possibly what you mean is "you won't see much of Great-Grandchildren"?
My Grandad wasn't quiet that age when he started having children but he now has about 6 great grandchildren (and about 18 grand-children). Long life does run in my family (
) so mabey my view on the right age is slightly skewed. According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
GOLD Member
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
4,219 posts
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr, United Kingdom
Posted:
my grandparents died when I was pretty young so I dont really remember them too well.
Actually my mum's mum died at 57 - the same age as what my mum is now.
Written by: SethisWritten by: TinklePants
and there's a chance you wont see much of grandchildren either.
Hang on, my mother had me when she was 34, and I've seen my grandmother for 18 years... and probably many years to come.
Possibly what you mean is "you won't see much of Great-Grandchildren"?
my grandparents died when I was pretty young so I dont really remember them too well.
Actually my mum's mum died at 57 - the same age as what my mum is now.
Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Really? I'm sorry to hear that, my Great Grandmother (the only one I remember) and all of my grandparents have lived to be 80-something... maybe it's all just luck...
Really? I'm sorry to hear that, my Great Grandmother (the only one I remember) and all of my grandparents have lived to be 80-something... maybe it's all just luck...
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Both of my grandmothers are alive an kicking in their 90's (my mom and dad adopted me when they were in their 30's) and ready to see their first..hold on let me think... great-great grandchild be born next month.
PWB didn't really have grandparents because they died young (mostly due to inherited predispositions...scary) and his parents were not old when they had him.
Age doesn't matter when it comes to stuff like that.
Both of my grandmothers are alive an kicking in their 90's (my mom and dad adopted me when they were in their 30's) and ready to see their first..hold on let me think... great-great grandchild be born next month.
PWB didn't really have grandparents because they died young (mostly due to inherited predispositions...scary) and his parents were not old when they had him.
Age doesn't matter when it comes to stuff like that.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
well, both setas of grandparents had their kids young, and my parents had me young, up until recently i had two great-grandparents too, but sadly they died.
actaully, at one point i had 4 sets of grandparents!!!! yes, it's tue...anyone who guesses how gets a cookie.
well, both setas of grandparents had their kids young, and my parents had me young, up until recently i had two great-grandparents too, but sadly they died.
actaully, at one point i had 4 sets of grandparents!!!! yes, it's tue...anyone who guesses how gets a cookie.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Divorce and remarriage TS?
My niece, a few years ago, was in the local paper because she had something like 14 living grandparents...all originals, no steps.
She is now 13 and still has 12 grands-greats-whatevers living. And my sister had my niece late into her 20's.
Thanks for reminding me. It's one of those happy thoughts.
Divorce and remarriage TS?
My niece, a few years ago, was in the local paper because she had something like 14 living grandparents...all originals, no steps.
She is now 13 and still has 12 grands-greats-whatevers living. And my sister had my niece late into her 20's.
Thanks for reminding me. It's one of those happy thoughts.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Pooh-Bah
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
1,662 posts
Location: Bristol
Posted:
kind of....my mum has 2 sets of parents, both 1/2 real, my dad has one set & my stepmum had a set, although they're gone now.
but yes well down, you get a (virtual) cookie.
kind of....my mum has 2 sets of parents, both 1/2 real, my dad has one set & my stepmum had a set, although they're gone now.
but yes well down, you get a (virtual) cookie.
I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.
BRONZE Member
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
old hand
1,107 posts
Location: In a test pit, Mackay, Australia
Posted:
By the time she was 21 years old my mother had a child and was senior nurse in charge of a hospital in Papua New Guinea. In no way did I have the emotional maturity to deal with either at her age.
Whether it's because she was more mature at that age, or simply my expectations of life are different, I can't say.
It's only recently that I've begun to reagard babies as being something that I would welcome rather than being a problem, and it's wholly down to being in a stable relationship with a great man. I've spent 15-odd years of being paranoid every month, now as I enter my 30's I'm wondering about timing it all.
With hindsight I can see the advantages of having children young, but it wasn't for me, in terms of my own maturity or being in the right relationship.
By the time she was 21 years old my mother had a child and was senior nurse in charge of a hospital in Papua New Guinea. In no way did I have the emotional maturity to deal with either at her age.
Whether it's because she was more mature at that age, or simply my expectations of life are different, I can't say.
It's only recently that I've begun to reagard babies as being something that I would welcome rather than being a problem, and it's wholly down to being in a stable relationship with a great man. I've spent 15-odd years of being paranoid every month, now as I enter my 30's I'm wondering about timing it all.
With hindsight I can see the advantages of having children young, but it wasn't for me, in terms of my own maturity or being in the right relationship.
There is a slight possibility that I am not actually right all of the time.
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