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BirgitBRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)


Posted:
Apparently, men with "homosexual tendencies" who don't live celibate for at least 3 years won't be made priests anymore. The same is true for applicants who are open about their homosexuality, i.e. go to gay meetings. Homosexual literature, films and websites are to be forbidden in the seminars' rooms. The document is to be published in November.

Why does it matter if a gay or straight guy becomes a priest when they're not supposed to have sex anyways???

Boo frown

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


UCOFSILVER Member
15,414 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
Why has noone brought up a case against them of discrimination? umm

Dr_Molly 2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
Looks like Mr Pope needs to go and read his catechism.



Written by: Catechism of the Catholic Church (English edition 1994)



2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. [They do not choose their homosexual condition; for most of them it is a trial.] This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill Gods will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.








Not exactly an enlightened viewpoint but at least it prohibits against the sort of discrimination the Catholic church now seems to be so keen on.



I thought religious institutions were pretty much immune from accusations of discrimination with that well worn defense of "God told me to". umm

BirgitBRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)


Posted:
I don't think the discrimination complaint will work. Didn't work for catholic women, won't work for gay men, and won't work for people of other religions that want to be a catholic priest either... wink I'd sometimes like to, I bet the wine they get for the holy communion is nice tongue

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


Dr_Molly 2,354 posts
Location: Away from home


Posted:
It isn't really shrug

And nor are the communion wafers - like cardboard that sticks to the roof of your mouth and you can't poke it or anything useful because of transubstantiation and all that.

You can eat god but don't you go poking or chewing him or it's demons for you. wink

_Clare_BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)


Posted:
Hmmm.

With the number of people wanting to go into the priesthood dropping, you'd think they wouldn't be turning people away


shrug

Getting to the other side smile


BirgitBRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)


Posted:
We got grape juice and proper bread, but then I'm not catholic smile

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Then again, if Catholicism didn't discriminate, I'd have to think harder to hate it.

wink

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


linden rathenGOLD Member
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK


Posted:
will not rant will not rant will not rant

.....

i still think the worst thing to come out of the vatican is the hole hate of condoms

back


Azrelle_ 39 posts
Location: Glasgow-ish


Posted:
I'm all for moving with the times, but changing the basis of the teachings to win more followers would be hypocritical. We don't like it.... but the church says homosexuality is a sin. Someone who is openly embracing of that "sin" cannot lead a congregation.

Not saying I agree with it, but it's no surprise the catholic church is against gay priests, imho

Live life the fun way


MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,922 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
Honestly, I don't care.

It's the right of the Catholic church to be as bigoted as it wishes. They can ban Blacks, for all I care.

I don't see why any gay man would want to be part of an organization that hates gay men and I don't see how this position of intolerance will help the Church one bit.

It's simply another shovelful of dirt in its own grave.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


Azrelle_ 39 posts
Location: Glasgow-ish


Posted:
It's almost like why would a white supremacist complain that they weren't allowed to be the spokesperson for a racial equality organisation

If a the principles of a group are not in your favour.... just don't join up

Live life the fun way


AzadondoSILVER Member
59 posts
Location: Los Angeles, USA


Posted:
Communion wafers taste great with peanut butter. Just thought I would clear that one up for you if anyone was wondering.

Performing marriages, funerals, baptisisms, last rites and absolving the sins for HoPers for-- not very long actually.


NYCNYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA


Posted:
Written by: Doc Lightning


I don't see how this position of intolerance will help the Church one bit.

It's simply another shovelful of dirt in its own grave.




I wish I could be so optimisitc. frown

Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]


BirgitBRONZE Member
had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
4,145 posts
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland (UK)


Posted:
I don't really believe in the "then don't join up" - I'm not that religious, but most people grow up with their religion before they realise if they're straight or gay. It's not openly embracing a sin either cause obviously if you're a priest you're not supposed to have sex with either man or woman...

"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half


jeff(fake) 1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh


Posted:
Those wacky Catholics are at it again then. I thought the religious were ment to be more moral than folks like me.

According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...


MynciBRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom


Posted:
Religion.....don't get me started....

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.


IcerSILVER Member
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand


Posted:
ok, might annoy some ppl here, but i think it needs to be said.
and for the record, im not catholic and dont agree with what they think, BUT, they are allowed to think it. i think Azrelle pointed out that for them homosexuality is sin, just like murder, if a murderer wanted to lead a congregation are they being discriminatory for not letting them? judging someone on their individual merits is not discrimination for me. i dont know if what the catholic church is doing is discrimination or not. if they are declining people because they embrace or accept sin as an intergral part in their lives, then let them. like Doc said, why would a Gay person want to join an organisation like that.
this is all symptomatic of a 'religous' world view in my books. and we could all go on and on about it im sure.
think we should all take myncis advise and try not to get started. i have read numerous threads on here discussing the 'evils' of religion. do we need another one?

It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.


onewheeldaveGOLD Member
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom


Posted:
If it's OK for them to think it (that homosexuality is a sin), and to preach it- then, on the same grounds, is it not OK for others to think that they are wrong to think that, and to protest against it?



If 'anything goes' is the rule, then surely it cuts both ways?



I think one of the issues people have with the churches attitude is that it goes way beyond what the church thinks- the church has a lot of influence over people and affects the way they see things.

"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!


IcerSILVER Member
205 posts
Location: Christchurch, New Zealand


Posted:
i absolutly think people should express their views, whether for or against. i wasnt suggesting we shouldnt have a rant about it, by all means, i was asking whether or not it would do any good, or rather, any more good than the numerous other threads on here ranting about religion. if most people here are in agreement, wouldnt we be better served addressing and talking to the people who dont agree?
i agree that the church has too much influence over people. i dont how that issue can be addressed though. i think it comes from a need for people to be told the answers, and sadly some people see the church as holding all the answers instead of just a bunch of 'normal' people who have no more clue than they do.

It took a while, but once their numbers dropped from 50 down to 8, the other dwarves started to suspect Hungry.


MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,922 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
Written by: onewheeldave


If it's OK for them to think it (that homosexuality is a sin), and to preach it- then, on the same grounds, is it not OK for others to think that they are wrong to think that, and to protest against it?




Yup. I forget who said it but it was something along the lines of "Sir, I would spend my life opposing what you propose, but I'll die to defend your right to say it."

If the Church wants to take a position against gays or blacks or people whose left big toes smell of green elderberries (my personal pet peeve) then that's their right.

It's my right to get worked up over it and protest. It's also my right to shrug my shoulders at them and go "have fun, boys. I've got other things to worry about."

The Catholic church has never stood at the forefront of human rights and I don't expect them to do that this time, either.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


Red_RaveNGOLD Member
358 posts
Location: Sala, Slovakia


Posted:
Written by: onewheeldave


If it's OK for them to think it (that homosexuality is a sin), and to preach it- then, on the same grounds, is it not OK for others to think that they are wrong to think that, and to protest against it?





Ye Gods! Don't EVER write anything that confusing again, please, there are people reading this thread after a night shift.. umm biggrin offtopic

anyway...

Written by:

for them homosexuality is sin, just like murder, if a murderer wanted to lead a congregation are they being discriminatory for not letting them? judging someone on their individual merits is not discrimination for me




nice point of view tho it assumes that homosexuality and murder are equally "immoral". but they are such to the church and not to most other people outside the church.

Written by:

i agree that the church has too much influence over people. i dont how that issue can be addressed though. i think it comes from a need for people to be told the answers, and sadly some people see the church as holding all the answers instead of just a bunch of 'normal' people who have no more clue than they do.




IMHO lack of information. There are loads of religions and philosophies which have a better point of view for allmost any individual. And the church always tried to look like they are better at anything than non believers.

Written by:

If a the principles of a group are not in your favour.... just don't join up




This can be a problem, especially with the church. as said above, many do not know anything else or are pushed into joining whether by their family or their community without having any chance or way to know something else.
It's an issue which can be solved by informing people of other views on life and the universe and everything but still in a christian community information about other different philosophies aren't generally very wellcome, or if somebody manages to get to information about other philosophies many just find it too hard to change even if it is well possible.
All has to do with general human lazyness. and the church being an institution trying to teach peace by force mostly.

Smile.. It confuses people..:)

Wonders never cease as long as you never cease to wonder.


KieronGOLD Member
232 posts
Location: United Kingdom


Posted:
Morality and eithics are defined by the society we live in. Most socities believe cannabalism to be wrong, some don't. People are entitled to believe what they wish, good/evil are in the eye of the beholder not some force of nature, but when two opposing views of morality or ethics are in opposition those who stand firmly by there beliefs shall each want the other to change believeing themselves right. It is very rare that people will change there moral/ethical code as its ingrained into them by the society they live in and they believe there right as much as anyone else.

Currently if you disagree with the Catholic Church on the issue they really don't effect most people in a way I see as important. If Bush was trying to enforce Catholicism in Iraq I wouldn't like to bet on America winning. (Note thats just a randomly though up example, I don't think he would)

From a personal point of view i'm not a big fan of any organised religion. I wonder if I can write a book with a god you have to worship by spinning and get people to believe that...

"I'm quite good at darts, though i often miss" - Kylie

"I'm not a bad driver, I just panic when theres other cars around" - Sarah


MikeGinnyGOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,922 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA


Posted:
You may think that the Catholic church is so influential...but it isn't. This is because it doesn't, in reality, dictate beliefs. Oh, sure, It does dictate what people's beliefs *SHOULD* be, but very few people in reality have personal epiphanys (I can't possibly have spelled that right) when the Pope makes an Official Decree. Those who do probably need professional help.

There was a time when the Church controlled all of Europe. People living in, say, France, had to submit to both the law of the land and the law of the Church. And the Church would routinely enforce that law...brutally.

Today Catholocism is just another religion among many. Most people don't believe the detailed dogma of whatever religion they practice. And I believe that Catholocism will tend to lose its strength over time.

And policies like this will only help.

-Mike

Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella



A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura


GherkinGOLD Member
117 posts
Location: Australia


Posted:
Written by: Birgit


Apparently, men with "homosexual tendencies" who don't live celibate for at least 3 years won't be made priests anymore. The same is true for applicants who are open about their homosexuality, i.e. go to gay meetings. Homosexual literature, films and websites are to be forbidden in the seminars' rooms. The document is to be published in November.

Why does it matter if a gay or straight guy becomes a priest when they're not supposed to have sex anyways???

Boo frown



How do they know if these men have been celibate for three years anyway? confused

Tao Star 1,662 posts
Location: Bristol


Posted:
Written by: White RaveN



Written by: onewheeldave



If a the principles of a group are not in your favour.... just don't join up






This can be a problem, especially with the church. as said above, many do not know anything else or are pushed into joining whether by their family or their community without having any chance or way to know something else.








as well as this...you know some people actually believe that it's true - not because of upbringing or whatever - you know people convert to the church when they had no connection with it before.



i don't know how popular this view will be...but i always thought that one of the main reasons for having the right to free speech, especially where religion is concerned...is that we don't actually know they're wrong.



i totally, 100% disagree with the church's policy on homosexual people..don't get me wrong. but a lot of people, including gay men, think they are right and believe that god has told them that......



i believe that we ahould all continue to promote love and acceptance of everyone in the world...but you can't go around assuming you are right and someone else is wrong...even if ther views seem absolutely monstous to you.



Written by: UglyCowsOfFrance



Why has noone brought up a case against them of discrimination? umm






as south park once taught us, the best way to encourage people to be accepting is to show them the better way...not to sue them in to letting you in!



just another pov......don't hit me! *ducks*

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.


thegreatBJ 332 posts
Location: Hull...ish


Posted:
Written by: Azrelle_


I'm all for moving with the times, but changing the basis of the teachings to win more followers would be hypocritical. We don't like it.... but the church says homosexuality is a sin. Someone who is openly embracing of that "sin" cannot lead a congregation.

Not saying I agree with it, but it's no surprise the catholic church is against gay priests, imho




you say that but the main bible quote that is based on is "a man shall not lye with a man as with a woman" enfasis on the word lye (although I can't spell it) that means have sex with.....my argument is that if they aren't actually having sex then it doesn't matter what they have urges towards as long as they all ignore them eqally

I AM NOT A GAY MAN!


StoneGOLD Member
Stream Entrant
2,830 posts
Location: Melbourne, Australia


Posted:
Good grief, how could anyone think homosexuality and murder were equal crimes. One is consenting while the other is slightly more intrusive. (Ed. Not implying that homosexuality is a crime. I think a certain percentage of the population are born homosexual, and it's a natural part of life.)



Homosexuality is not sin in Gods eyes. God only gave Moses 3 or 4 commandments, so Leviticus is mostly full of mens laws, not Gods laws. Thats laws made up by men, not God.



Certainly Jesus didnt go around gay bashing, and people who do so will never get to heaven, imo. The 11th commandment - There shall be no bigots in heaven.



devil
EDITED_BY: Stone (1129211600)

If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


Tao Star 1,662 posts
Location: Bristol


Posted:
its true - leviticus (imo) is mostly trash, and even if it was once accepted could never be workable in modern society.

it's such a huge thing though, sometimes i feel like giving up.....i firmly believe that encouraging people to be more open and accepting of eachother is the way to go, but sometimes it seems so hopeless, as they just seem to want to hate each other, even if there was nothing between them, they would hate each other because they can. argh!

well i will keep trying i guess.....it's nice to know that there's people around here that can actually be nice to each other!

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.


thegreatBJ 332 posts
Location: Hull...ish


Posted:
i'll have to quote form an ex and theolighy student for this one...

"the old testement is jut a guide on how to stay alive in the desert" and he was a chiristian!

I AM NOT A GAY MAN!


Tao Star 1,662 posts
Location: Bristol


Posted:
ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol ubblol

ha ha, that's a good one.

i used to be christian....until i read the bible myself instead of letting a vicar do it for me...than i was like - huh? i'm not allowed to wear poly/cotton? i can stone my parents? wicked! er...i mean......not cool.

I had a dream that my friend had a
strong-bad pop up book,
it was the book of my dreams.


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