Forums > Social Discussion > St George Pins
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Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
Maybe this is one for the 'in the news' thread, but it might get lost...
Full story: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4305798.stm
I'm sorry, but when we can't wear out national symbol to show out support for a cancer charity I start to worry about how much further this 'political correctness' will go!
Thoughts?
EDITED_BY: Sym_ (1128419916)
Maybe this is one for the 'in the news' thread, but it might get lost...
Written by: BBC News
Prison officers at a West Yorkshire jail have been advised in a report not to wear St George's Cross tie-pins.
The wearing of England's national symbol by staff at Wakefield Prison could be "misinterpreted", said the report's section on race relations.
Chief inspector of prisons Anne Owers said she had been told the pins were bought in support of a cancer charity.
But one of her formal recommendations was that "staff should not wear unauthorised tie-pins".
Full story: https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4305798.stm
I'm sorry, but when we can't wear out national symbol to show out support for a cancer charity I start to worry about how much further this 'political correctness' will go!
Thoughts?
EDITED_BY: Sym_ (1128419916)
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
my mate had one on his motorbike leathers and was nearly nicked for it.........mind you it did have the slogan "no surrender" on it
my mate had one on his motorbike leathers and was nearly nicked for it.........mind you it did have the slogan "no surrender" on it
BRONZE Member
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Posted:
Now that is stupid!
It's not Political Correctness - it's stupidity.
If we can't wear our national cross - then we shouldn't allow anyone else to display national symbols in our country either!! But you wont see our government stop people wearing other flags!
Fair enough, that racial problems occur in that prison - i'm not suprised really, a bunch of "dangerous" men all together?? But i don't see how wearing the national cross is deemed as provoking racism? I mean surely they are all English in there?
Do we have foreign nationals in our prisons?
Now that is stupid!
It's not Political Correctness - it's stupidity.
If we can't wear our national cross - then we shouldn't allow anyone else to display national symbols in our country either!! But you wont see our government stop people wearing other flags!
Fair enough, that racial problems occur in that prison - i'm not suprised really, a bunch of "dangerous" men all together?? But i don't see how wearing the national cross is deemed as provoking racism? I mean surely they are all English in there?
Do we have foreign nationals in our prisons?
Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...
Stalking amidst the desert, carrying an oversized scalpel...
1,019 posts
Location: Huddersfield + Hull Uni... UK.
1,019 posts
Location: Huddersfield + Hull Uni... UK.
Posted:
I love this country, the idiocy spawned from our government.
I love this country, the idiocy spawned from our government.
Willy - is bad for your health...
SILVER Member
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom
Posted:
Yep , especially when there have been no complants by anyone except the government board . . . I live in wales, and I can't imagine the uproar if they said - ummm no dragon embelems any more....
Though I think there point is that racist groups have used it as there logo and therefore it could be seen as the prison officers showing there support for the racist group . . .
but it is all still ridiculous. .. .
Yep , especially when there have been no complants by anyone except the government board . . . I live in wales, and I can't imagine the uproar if they said - ummm no dragon embelems any more....
Though I think there point is that racist groups have used it as there logo and therefore it could be seen as the prison officers showing there support for the racist group . . .
but it is all still ridiculous. .. .
BRONZE Member
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Geek-enviro-hippy priest
1,858 posts
Location: Diss, Norfolk, United Kingdom
Posted:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
It is true that racist groups are using it, but thats no reason for decent people not to ware them, if anything it's more of one!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
It is true that racist groups are using it, but thats no reason for decent people not to ware them, if anything it's more of one!
There's too many home fires burning and not enough trees
SILVER Member
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom
Posted:
very true - I wasn't giving at as a reason, just part of the excuse they are using for ban, which I agree is very lame
very true - I wasn't giving at as a reason, just part of the excuse they are using for ban, which I agree is very lame
GOLD Member
Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
8,428 posts
Location: Wales
Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
8,428 posts
Location: Wales
Posted:
Ok I'm going to be the devils advocate here.
Where I work, I used to have to wear a set uniform. We had to wear it everyday and if we turned up in something other than the regulation uniform ( I know I tried it) we got a written warning. Many places of work have dress codes and uniforms.
When Prison officers get the job they are told of the regulations and issued with the uniforms. It states in the rules they must not wear any tie pin other than those approved. It isn't as if this is a suprise to the officers as they have a list of what they can and can't wear.
I at work can't wear badges/tie pins/charity pins. Its just something that the rules say. I knew that when I started here so I can't complain about it now.
Ok I'm going to be the devils advocate here.
Where I work, I used to have to wear a set uniform. We had to wear it everyday and if we turned up in something other than the regulation uniform ( I know I tried it) we got a written warning. Many places of work have dress codes and uniforms.
When Prison officers get the job they are told of the regulations and issued with the uniforms. It states in the rules they must not wear any tie pin other than those approved. It isn't as if this is a suprise to the officers as they have a list of what they can and can't wear.
I at work can't wear badges/tie pins/charity pins. Its just something that the rules say. I knew that when I started here so I can't complain about it now.
Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!
BRONZE Member
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Macaque of all trades
8,738 posts
Location: wombling free..., United Kingdom
Posted:
fair point skully...however they were told they couldn't wear the badge because it may be thought to be racist....If they had said..thats not regulation uniform there would be no fuss...
I do agree that allowing officers in a maximum security prison to wear small pointy objects capable of falling into the wrong hands (I admitt I'm assuming thats the type of badge) is irresponsible...I am capable of making a very dangerous weapon from a drawing pin, so thats my only worry.
But it is P.C. gone mad. it's bad enough we don't really celebrate st Georges day.
fair point skully...however they were told they couldn't wear the badge because it may be thought to be racist....If they had said..thats not regulation uniform there would be no fuss...
I do agree that allowing officers in a maximum security prison to wear small pointy objects capable of falling into the wrong hands (I admitt I'm assuming thats the type of badge) is irresponsible...I am capable of making a very dangerous weapon from a drawing pin, so thats my only worry.
But it is P.C. gone mad. it's bad enough we don't really celebrate st Georges day.
A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.
Carpal \'Tunnel
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
7,193 posts
Location: in the trees
Posted:
WOW!!!!
this topic has spung up accross many sites that i visit and oppinions are very similler (sp??)TOTAL OUTRAGE
basicly i say live n let live
WOW!!!!
this topic has spung up accross many sites that i visit and oppinions are very similler (sp??)TOTAL OUTRAGE
basicly i say live n let live
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Doesn't seem very important at all, frankly. That said I don't think I know anyone who thinks that St. George's Cross is offensive. The Union Jack on the other hand...
Doesn't seem very important at all, frankly. That said I don't think I know anyone who thinks that St. George's Cross is offensive. The Union Jack on the other hand...
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
SILVER Member
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom
veteran
1,314 posts
Location: Blu's Pocket, United Kingdom
Posted:
*runs in just to cause trouble*
Just to be (sp?)pedantic isn't it the Union flag , and only becomes a Union Jack when flown on a ship ?
*runs out again*
*runs in just to cause trouble*
Just to be (sp?)pedantic isn't it the Union flag , and only becomes a Union Jack when flown on a ship ?
*runs out again*
BRONZE Member
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Mistress of Pink...Multicoloured
6,140 posts
Location: Over There, United Kingdom
Posted:
yup it is called the Union Flag unless it is flying of the Jack post of a Ship...
One of my pet peeves is people calling it the union jack when it's not.
yup it is called the Union Flag unless it is flying of the Jack post of a Ship...
One of my pet peeves is people calling it the union jack when it's not.
Never pick up a duck in a dungeon...
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
Why would that be considered offensive? There is such a thing as the "United Kingdom" no? Hence "Union Flag".
Why would that be considered offensive? There is such a thing as the "United Kingdom" no? Hence "Union Flag".
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
BRONZE Member
and behold!
464 posts
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
and behold!
464 posts
Location: Liverpool, United Kingdom
Posted:
The thing that really baffled me is why the Cross of St George was chosen as the English flag. It was used as a symbol of anti-islam during the First Crusade (yes, that holy war where Christians went and killed loads of people because they don't follow the same faith) and it was also used during the invasion of Scotland. Symbols like the Cross of St John is also considered offensive to the Islamic, which is why St John Ambulance have a different symbol in Islamic countries.
The thing that really baffled me is why the Cross of St George was chosen as the English flag. It was used as a symbol of anti-islam during the First Crusade (yes, that holy war where Christians went and killed loads of people because they don't follow the same faith) and it was also used during the invasion of Scotland. Symbols like the Cross of St John is also considered offensive to the Islamic, which is why St John Ambulance have a different symbol in Islamic countries.
Why let your body be a temple? When it can be a theme park?
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SILVER Member
member
102 posts
Location: SW London, UK
member
102 posts
Location: SW London, UK
Posted:
St John Ambulance only has one emblem, the eight-pointed Maltese cross. St John Ambulance is divided into Priories and at present, the following priories exist worldwide:
* The Priory of England and the Islands
* The Priory of Australia
* The Priory of Canada
* The Priory of New Zealand
* The Priory of Scotland
* The Priory of South Africa
* The Priory of United States
* The Priory of Wales
You may be thinking of the Red Cross which becomes the Red Crescent in Islamic countries.
But, then again, I could be wrong and I'm definitely being pedantic!
Cheers
St John Ambulance only has one emblem, the eight-pointed Maltese cross. St John Ambulance is divided into Priories and at present, the following priories exist worldwide:
* The Priory of England and the Islands
* The Priory of Australia
* The Priory of Canada
* The Priory of New Zealand
* The Priory of Scotland
* The Priory of South Africa
* The Priory of United States
* The Priory of Wales
You may be thinking of the Red Cross which becomes the Red Crescent in Islamic countries.
But, then again, I could be wrong and I'm definitely being pedantic!
Cheers
RosieMary
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever" ~ Mahatma Gandhi
Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Cos' it was used as the symbol of the domination of millions of people and is the icon of choice for British rascists.
It's not really it's history so much as the kind of people that fly it.
Written by: Sethis
Why would that be considered offensive? There is such a thing as the "United Kingdom" no? Hence "Union Flag".
Cos' it was used as the symbol of the domination of millions of people and is the icon of choice for British rascists.
It's not really it's history so much as the kind of people that fly it.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Insert Champagne Here
13,215 posts
Location: without class distinction, Australia
Posted:
my school used to not let us wear pins of any sort. the whole uniform thing, but even charity ones werent allowed because the school "counldnt show support for some charities but not others" i thought ti was stupid, but then again, i am very big on expression.
and natually, little shyte me managed to talk my way around it.
with the red cross/red cresent thing; i thought that was to do with religious symbols rather than post crusades. a cross is a christian symbol and therefore wouldnt really work in islamic countries
my school used to not let us wear pins of any sort. the whole uniform thing, but even charity ones werent allowed because the school "counldnt show support for some charities but not others" i thought ti was stupid, but then again, i am very big on expression.
and natually, little shyte me managed to talk my way around it.
with the red cross/red cresent thing; i thought that was to do with religious symbols rather than post crusades. a cross is a christian symbol and therefore wouldnt really work in islamic countries
i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey
Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...
BRONZE Member
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
2,530 posts
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posted:
it's truely idiotic. the government advise against wearing St. George's Cross because it could be misinterpreted as racism, and if the government were to adivse against wearing other countries flags that could be misinterpreted as racism.
i think it's mainly just the government creating too many diverse ways in which things can be misinterpreted.
it's truely idiotic. the government advise against wearing St. George's Cross because it could be misinterpreted as racism, and if the government were to adivse against wearing other countries flags that could be misinterpreted as racism.
i think it's mainly just the government creating too many diverse ways in which things can be misinterpreted.
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small member
116 posts
Location: Hastings
116 posts
Location: Hastings
Posted:
If I were to organise a white pride/heritage march or gathering, similar to black people celebrating their ethnicity by having gatherings and what not. What would that look like to other people and what kind of people would turn up?
I reckon it would end up with a bunch of skinheads and NF idiots waving around georges cross and swaztikas(How the hell do you put those together in the same place? Crazy). And would look like a racist march.
I think we should wrestle the cross back from the grip these psycos so that every enthic background in this country can feel untited under it. Not that I'm one for patriotism or natonal pride. Or not.
If I were to organise a white pride/heritage march or gathering, similar to black people celebrating their ethnicity by having gatherings and what not. What would that look like to other people and what kind of people would turn up?
I reckon it would end up with a bunch of skinheads and NF idiots waving around georges cross and swaztikas(How the hell do you put those together in the same place? Crazy). And would look like a racist march.
I think we should wrestle the cross back from the grip these psycos so that every enthic background in this country can feel untited under it. Not that I'm one for patriotism or natonal pride. Or not.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
3,252 posts
Location: sheffield, United Kingdom
Posted:
If you're not one for patriotism or national pride then why bother wrestling back a flag from anyone?
What you say about the white pride march is true, and shows the down side of any form of 'cultural celebration'.
It's one of the BNPs complaints that disallowing celebration of white culture whilst encouraging celebration of other cultures, is unfair and discriminatory.
Many consider white culture ot be inherently predisposed to racism- I'd argue that that is a tendency in most (if not all) traditional cultures. For example, ancient Hindu culture had racism as a fundamental building block with its 'caste system'.
Personally, unlike the BNP, I feel no need whatsoever for a celebration of 'white culture'; but I would also like to see an end to cultural celebration of all kinds- I think it adds to the problem- most of those cultures do have racist elements that persist to this day, and celebrating them, IMO, actually leads to separatism and exclusion.
It seems to me that whenever people are in need of unification by flags, patriotism or culture, it's usually at the expense of setting themselves up as being 'better' than groups outside that culture.
The only culture I'd be interested in celebrating would be the 'culture of humanity'.
If you're not one for patriotism or national pride then why bother wrestling back a flag from anyone?
What you say about the white pride march is true, and shows the down side of any form of 'cultural celebration'.
It's one of the BNPs complaints that disallowing celebration of white culture whilst encouraging celebration of other cultures, is unfair and discriminatory.
Many consider white culture ot be inherently predisposed to racism- I'd argue that that is a tendency in most (if not all) traditional cultures. For example, ancient Hindu culture had racism as a fundamental building block with its 'caste system'.
Personally, unlike the BNP, I feel no need whatsoever for a celebration of 'white culture'; but I would also like to see an end to cultural celebration of all kinds- I think it adds to the problem- most of those cultures do have racist elements that persist to this day, and celebrating them, IMO, actually leads to separatism and exclusion.
It seems to me that whenever people are in need of unification by flags, patriotism or culture, it's usually at the expense of setting themselves up as being 'better' than groups outside that culture.
The only culture I'd be interested in celebrating would be the 'culture of humanity'.
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Scientist of Fortune
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
1,189 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
Ditto from me onewheeldave.
Ditto from me onewheeldave.
According to Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle of Quantum Dynamics, we may already be making love right now...
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
I have a Union Jack (shutupshutupshutup
) in my room, hanging from a shelf... what kind of person am I?
Written by: jeff(fake)
It's not really it's history so much as the kind of people that fly it.
I have a Union Jack (shutupshutupshutup
) in my room, hanging from a shelf... what kind of person am I? After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Sometimes sword wofter
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
199 posts
Location: Edinburgh
Posted:
I'd like my own personal flag, for the United States of Me. What would that make me and how would the government react if I made it into a tie pin?
I'd like my own personal flag, for the United States of Me. What would that make me and how would the government react if I made it into a tie pin?
IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.
"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"
SILVER Member
member
102 posts
Location: SW London, UK
member
102 posts
Location: SW London, UK
Posted:
Precisely why Red Cross became Red Crescent in Islamic countries. Go to the top of the class and give out the pencils!
Written by: Rouge Dragon
with the red cross/red cresent thing; i thought that was to do with religious symbols rather than post crusades. a cross is a christian symbol and therefore wouldnt really work in islamic countries
Precisely why Red Cross became Red Crescent in Islamic countries. Go to the top of the class and give out the pencils!
RosieMary
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"Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever" ~ Mahatma Gandhi
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