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historian_of_fire_arts
historian_of_fire_arts

newbie

Member Since: 4th Oct 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:Greetings kindred spirits. I am reaching out to the Home of Poi community for help. I am writting a book on "The History of the Fire Arts" which will be an all inclusive understanding and appreciation of those who create, perform, build, and teach everything and anything that pertains to the fire arts. I am presently on the chapter that deals with the fire staff. I am familiar with the Polinesian culture that started 'fire knife' dancing in the mid thirties from Samoa that eventually made it's way to Fiji, Tahiti, New Zealand and, finally, Hawaii. I am also aware of fire staff spinning in India that began in the '60's. I have also heard stories of some forms of fire staff spinning in South America and even in Africa, but not yet confirmed. The informaton that I am seeking now is; who are the people responsible for inspiring the multitudes of 'white' people world wide to take up the fire staff. It appears to have begun in Australia in the late 80's or early 90's. If this is true, would someone be so kind as to direct me to anyone who might know who these people are. Their names, addresses, e-mail , websites; I'll take anything. If anyone should also know of any persons who were fire staff performing even earlier than the late 80's that was not bound to, or apart of, any ethnic identity, PLEASE let me know. To make this real simple, folks, I am looking for the first white people who wanted to adopt, take on, another cultures ethnic fire ritual and identity and ask them; why?
Someone knows and I really could use the info. Blessings to you all, and I hope to hear from you soon. Peace, Historian


The pen is mightier than the sword


historian_of_fire_arts
historian_of_fire_arts

newbie

Member Since: 4th Oct 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:This has GOT TO BE the strangest day of my life. It is so bazarr, that I am almost at a lost for words, and that just about
NEVER happens to me. All I need now is the sound track to the Twilight Zone with Rod saying "Trapped, Trapped within a rehlm of time"... to make this whole experience complete. Where, in God's name, to begin. I'll answer a couple of questions, maybe that might help.

Glass, I couldn't convince diddilly squat right now. If you have something that will inform and improve the awareness of the people that will read my book, and help keep me honest in my intention to present nothing but the facts that have been validated by reliable sources, then groovy, I'll take 'um. Other than that, you're on your own.

A street performer e-mailed me Robert's brother's address in Amsterdam. I got his # and called him. He's totally freaked out! He hasn't heard a word from him in almost two years. He asked me if a reward would help. I told him it wouldn't hurt, and so he's offering 500 Euros to locate "Bobby". I decided to give this info first to the street performers website, since many more people there, have known Robert for a lot longer than any of you, AND seem to have a MUCH different opinion of him than some of you do. Much different! This has become ever so apparent to me after finally taking i8beefy2's advice, I looked up "Robert Heart" in the search box and read things... that...have left me...in shock.

A shock that has been extremely compounded by recieving a package this morning, Fedexed from Robert's brother, of Mr Heart's career, with the duplicate newspaper clippings, certificates, etc., of just about everything he has done up until two years ago.

I really feel like I am in the Twilight Zone. Sorry folks, but I must take my leave to work some of this out. Talk with you soon.

What ever happened to 'The Golden Rule'?


The pen is mightier than the sword


bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:post deleted.

Holistic Spinner (I hope)


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:It's sad that this has decayed to a Discussion of robert heart.
I think he's only a very minor note in the recent history of staff and fire:

References to thread about RHeart from 3 years ago:
Duvan - juggling convention ever in waldmnchen and Spin-Bo
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...rev=#Post140755
br>
Approve ninja - The incredibly restrained - Non actively mean robert heart experience:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/show...ll/fpart/1/vc/1



bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:yes. sorry drew.

won't happen again. or if it does, then it'll be in private.

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Arr, mr historian, it does appear that you are trying to fit facts to support your story. Initially, I thought you might be doing research for a PhD, but the quest to find a hero seems more 60 minutes style.

To answer your questions: who were the first poi people? That would probably have been Maoris from New Zealand.

Who popularised firetwirling? We did mr historian. Firetwirlers and jugglers like us, who attend festivals like ConFest/BM/Doof's etc, and hang out at HomeOf Poi; which incidently has been around for about eight years.

People have been doing firearts for a long time, and I think we would all like to see an authentic history told. After all, Hunter S. rode with the Hells Angles, and I suspect he may have even visited Vegas. For a good bibliography see Anna Jillings in her book on modern pole and club swinging.

juggle


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


loki.c1687
loki.c1687

addict
Location: Leeds
Member Since: 13th Jul 2004
Total posts: 546
Posted:might try looking for the first mob in history with all those pitch forks and fire touchers some day one person must have said wow why not put them together?
mike.c


Rules and responsibities:
These are the ties that bind us.
We do what we do,because of who we are.
If we did otherwise,we would not be ourselves.
I will do what i have to do
And i will do what i must..


Seye
Seye

Geek
Location: Manchester, UK
Member Since: 27th Mar 2005
Total posts: 1261
Posted:like i said before - covent garden market and glastonbury were the big ones for spreading the word in the uk.


historian_of_fire_arts
historian_of_fire_arts

newbie

Member Since: 4th Oct 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:Lord, what an amazing weekend. I've got a lot of things cooking on the fire right now, and I find my time thinly stretched. I have a wonderful relationship goin' on. ubblove I have a great job with deadlines that constantly demand my attention. juggle I have parents that I adore who are just now entering those challenging years. confused2 I hold two degrees from Stanford University; one in Psycology, and one in Philosophy. Top of my class. smile

I love the human experience, but I am aware that there is so much that needs improvement. I try my best not to react to life's unpleasantries, but to take pause first, gather my thoughts, control any negative emotions that might wish to make the matter worse, and reach for some kind of a solution that enables both parties to grow in a positive direction from the experience.

I bring this up for a reason. I am aware of information that, I presume, most of you are not aware of. Information that would help you understand the human condition so much better as to define the virtues: empathy and compassion to a greater degree.
You have made a regretful mistake, to this I have NO doubt.
It's the difficulty in how to present this information to you that I am presently faced with. I usually try to avoid politics, especially when it doesn't concern me, however, the knowledge obtained from my education lends me a unique perspective on how to correct an unjustice that has been given. With your permission..?


The pen is mightier than the sword


bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:please. at least pm it to me. i'll reply as gently and objectively as i can.

R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Written by:
You have made a regretful mistake, to this I have NO doubt.



Threats mr historian confused If you have something to say then please get to the point, and stop beating around the bush.

We are all busy too, have wonderful relationships, double degrees etc, etc, etc What is your point?


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Hmm... All sounds very odd. Still don't know why the focus is on the 'fire' arts and not the twirling arts which surely predate them.



I see little point in trying to pin down 1 white person who started it, since there were a thousand and 1 non whites doing it for years. Plus i've witnessed a great deal of 100 monkey mentality in the twirling community.



"You have made a regretful mistake, to this I have NO doubt." I have no idea what this is about, assume you're talking about the missing man.



I'll be sticking to the classic maori history thanks. It really is of no concern to me when the white man learnt the arts, nor when people set fire to it. I'm a human, my history is of my race, not of my skin pigment.



This thread has all gone very strange. No more riddles please.


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:Historian of the Fire Arts / Paul Rule,



For many reasons what you have posted on this forum, makes me suspicious and does not ring true.



I have NO respect for you,

I do not trust you,

you are a liar and

At the moment I do not believe a single word that you have posted.

I don't know what your hidden adgenda is,

And have no interest in helping you.



I repeat, I do not believe anything that you have posted.

Some of it is no doubt true, but without independant supporting data, "it won't stand up in court"

I have many resons to believe this, But for the moment I will say this, If you lie once, I will believe that you always lie. So what I need was some hard evidence that you are delieberately misleading us.



I believe that:

You do not have 2 degrees from stamford, this is your fantasy.

By the way that you write, I sincerely doubt that you are old enough to have one.

You do not have a degree in psychology, because If you did, you would be able to spell it correctly.

(see above quote 10 posts up "..... I hold two degrees from Stanford University; one in Psycology, and one in Philosophy. Top of my class."

to missspell this once would be an accident, but to have it wrong in your intro thread too, that looks far too fishy: http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Number=521806.


quote "...Philosophy, sociology, history, psycology and gettin' it onnnn!"



Home of poi as a community and those who post on it. Hold certain personal values very highly.

One of those is honesty.

Do not lie, do not bullsh!t. Here, we have little time for that.



Now I offer you some advice: Come clean, post an apology, post the true about yourself, and you will find HOP a very forgiving and friendly place, otherwise .....



Good night.

EDITED_BY: Glss (1131473438)



bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:I humbly express that a twirling history book that focuses on robert heart would be like a music history book focusing on the spice girls. any skewed history would cause harm even if a few people read it.

There is a level of hostility and incredulity on this discussion - on the point that we all share a love of this magnificent art and care about it's origins, let us honour our common ground and let go of how well connected or studied in psychology or philosophy one is. there's no need to justify oneself if we are confident of what we believe.

I thank you for the effort that you have clearly contributed in searching for the firey past and urge you to recognise the negative psychology that all of us are involved with here.

grouphug


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:OK folks, let's settle just a bit, let the man say his peace.

"It's the difficulty in how to present this information to you that I am presently faced with."

What, is Robert Heart ADD /HD or something? Turret's Syndrome? We are all human here. But it seems like you have a signpost here, some reactions to previous interactions people have had with him to deal with in this society you are trying to "document." If you want to "reveal" something that pertains to him so i'd say just spit it out, or else we run up against more projections from all sides.



i've only met him briefly and he was pretty sociable so i stand outside of this rather interesting discourse... but i do think that the premise of your book seems... infantile if all you want is to find the "robert heart" or whoever this person ends up being.



it's like you'd rather interview buffalo bill than sitting bull about frontier spirituality.



actually i know for a fact that R.H. is not the person you are looking for, there are others who've been fusing those arts for longer, there are quite a few in fact, one has posted here and others have been mentioned!! but at this point i too am starting to wonder about your motives, or rather... your intentions, which seem to really support a cult of personality mindset.

Have to say, glass, i was wondering myself about the bad grammar and mispsellings of "diploma subjects." but then, i'm educated years beyond my lack of desire to capitalise... and i could definitely pick apart every post for grammar oopsies and such... anyways, i'm starting to wonder... why is it this is all starting to seem like a R.H. publicity stunt or something? or is paranoia finally manifesting itslef in the cyber poi world? or can we looks at tribal reactions to percieved personality types as projections of our selves, and our subsequent reactions to ourselves? every level of society has these kinds of personality conflicts. if you have a psych degree surely you can objectively shed more light on this matter ubbangel


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:hmm, still no reply, how wonderfully interesting

*bump*


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.


bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:*twiddles thumbs*

Holistic Spinner (I hope)


-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:i am really disapointed in the way this thread has gone as i really am interested in the subject.
i have somehow managed to talk my tutors into letting me do my dissertation on studying spinning as a modern subculture (im an art student we get away with a fair amount) and so you can imagine how pleased i was to spot this thread.
Thanks to those that have posted genuine research its saved me loads of time.
Perhaps we can move on from a thread about Robert Hart and get on with discussing an interesting topic, i for one dont know that much about fire spinning history and am interested in anything anyone has to say.
so... anyone know anything more? biggrin


"Don't do it naked!"


i8beefy2
i8beefy2

addict
Location: Ohio, USA
Member Since: 24th Mar 2003
Total posts: 674
Posted:I think a more interesting question than where the "white" crossover point was, is who are the people who have been doing this the absolute longest and where are they?

I wish some of them would post here... I'd love to hear from some of the real old timers...



historian_of_fire_arts
historian_of_fire_arts

newbie

Member Since: 4th Oct 2005
Total posts: 20
Posted:It appears that my presence here is more of a demand than playing golf with my friends on such a beautiful Sunday morning.

I saw one of the best movies last night that I have seen in a very long time. My kind of movie. Ironically, it is very pertinent to the subject matter that I will be discussing. I could not be in a better frame of mind. The movie is 'Good Night, and Good Luck'. It is the story of Edward R. Murrow's attack against the evil that was Joseph McCarthy, and his communist witch hunts of the 1950's in America. One of my heroes! The material is so applicable to what is happening in American politics right now, and even, to a lesser degree, in other venues I have become familiar with.

I have always viewed my presence here as being apart of a friendly gathering, (a party), of like minded individuals willing to share their opinions in a courteous, respectful and honest manner so as to build trust and 'good vibrations' and maybe learn a few useful things in the process. This has been compromised, however. Before I can go on, it appears that someone is demanding our immediate attention in the form of a tantrum.

My, my, Glass, what a temper you have. Your parents must be very proud. If the misspelling of words be the criteria by which a person should be deemed credible or not, then how should we judge you? You know, there IS a little box at the bottom right hand corner that corrects any words that we misspell, you might want to try using it every once and awhile.
Since Mr. Glass has shown to be a staunch supporter in the character assassination of Mr. Heart within this community, I can't help but feel that Mother Teresa, herself, would have met the same fate as me, if she would have come to Mr. Heart's defense. After all, Robert was never afforded the the decency of ever being given one, was he? I'll address THAT issue later in greater detail.

For now, however, there are curiosities that I can't help but notice. For instance, I read blue vodka's post before it was deleted.(above) Though a bit harsh, I did not feel that it was offensive enough to warrant removal, and yet it was. Would someone kindly explain to me how Mr. Glass's comments, (and all out accusatory attack on my character I might add), should go unchecked? Is this considered acceptable behavior, in regards to how one MEMBER can treat another MEMBER at this web site? Not from what I read under 'conditions'. When you read Mr. Glass's accusations, (and that's ALL that they are), do you get a feeling that he wrote those shameless words under a "gee, I wonder if I will be able to get away with this" mentality? I don't.
It appears that not only does Mr.Glass speak for all of you,(at least in his mind anyway), he can say what ever he feels, in any way he so desires to say it, with complete immunity. He appears to know this. Well, aren't you special, Mr. Glass? He also seems to feel that the 'burden of proof' should now be shifted to the accused once he levels an accusation. Excuse Me! The 'burden of proof' is with you Mr. Glass, especially if all you have is the absence of an 'H' to justify such a rude and discourteous attack on my character. You seem to write in a way that appears to be more concerned with how others should see me, than how you really see me. Why?
Actually, I really don't care. You appear to have a well defined agenda already, Mr. Glass, but if all you have to offer here at this thread is character assassination via innuendo, hearsay, conjecture or speculation,(negative gossip, in other words) than I invite you to please take your leave from this thread, as I gladly invite ALL others to leave who feel that unwarranted and unproven negative theories, (SLANDER), should be deemed an appropriate form of communication within this forum. Slander is NEVER appropriate, ESPECIALLY, when the accused is NOT present to address the charges!!! Anyone accused of anything deserves the RIGHT to defend themselves against their accusers. Who among you would disagree with this, besides MR. Glass, and a FEW others? In my example, I have been able to address Mr. Glass's temper tantrum, because I have been available to.

But what if a person, who is NOT available to defend themselves against their accusers, is attacked in such a vicious and callous manner as to make an old ladies sewing circle in some Payton Place 'redneck' town located somewhere in the 'boons', appear 'sweet' by nature.

The 'shock' I expressed after reading the attack against Robert Heart, was not a shock based on the words used against him. After all, he may well be a real *#%@&, and deserving some negativity directed toward him. That is, of course, if you can furnish proof that he deserves it, and only if he is present to hear it.
I say this to all of you that have attacked him in such an unfair way, If all that you have to offer me, or any jury for that matter, as 'proof', that which I have already read about him, then I would gladly offer my services, if I were a Lawyer, to Mr. Heart in a slander and libel case against you, and I would most certainly win! All, and I mean ALL, that you have had to offer as proof, is nothing more than rumor, innuendo, speculation, hearsay, and conjecture, and THAT, my friends, is NOT admissible in any honest court of law and a judge would instruct any jury who heard it, to disregard it! If you haven't figured it out yet, I have chosen to become Mr.Heart's defense council in absentia. God, that was such a good movie last night!

It has been brought to our attention that this may all be a publicity stunt for Mr. Heart. Well, Mr. Glass, what do you have to say for yourself about that, after all, YOU were the one who brought the topic of Mr. Heart from another web site back into this one. I find it interesting, Mr Glass, that if Mr. Heart is so unimportant to you,("decayed to a discussion of Robert Heart..."as posted by you above), then why drudge up and post the threads that attacked him? Hmmm? Sorry ol' chap, bit of a sticky wicket you have there.

Arashi, who in their right mind would ever want this kind of abuse,. Who would want this crap, to the extent that it has been given, placed upon them selves for the purpose of publicity? Reread the thread posted here from the beginning. Mr. Heart's name was given to me by Bender, and then a little later on, by others. I was happy to keep the topic of Mr. Heart contained to other web sites, especially when I noticed sarcasm being directed at him, and I have not mentioned him, (at 'staff moves') for well over a month, until Mr. Glass brought him up.

There is a reason for everything. I DO NOT believe in coincidences. Mr. Glass would have you believe that the attack against Mr. Heart took place THREE years ago. It was TWO years ago. As a matter of fact, the last known communication with him took place one month before the first attack thread finished. Gee, what a coincidence. Tell me that the pen is not mightier than the sword. I pray that he's OK and just taking some time to figure out where his communication skills failed him. Uh huh, without letting any of his friends or family knows where he is. That makes sense, right? Sure it does.

I would like to pose a question to those who carry a working definition of empathy. What if it were you? What if you came to a web site that had attacked you in such a harmful way. What if you read words that weren't true, or if there was some truth, that your words or intentions were misunderstood or purposely misconstrued, or taken out of context, to support the revengeful or jealous actions of others? What if they did this to you without remorse, or guilt, or shame? To not care, in the least, to how this might harm you emotionally, or your friends, or your family, when you, or the one's you love, should ever read them. Or worst yet, to have them influence the people that you love within this community, that have not even met you yet, to influence them enough, that they begin to feel negative toward you also. What if the justification for this treatment was that you boasted of your accomplishments? True as they may be, your crime is that you bragged about yourself. Would you feel that the punishment being given to you, fit the crime? Well, if I had my choice of 'hangin' with a person who boasted of their achievements, even to the point of rolling my eyes, verses being with anyone who attempts to justify the actions, or logic of others, who would promote the insidious act of character assassination of anyone unavailable to defend themselves, upon the playing field of cruel and malicious GOSSIP! I'll take the braggart any day. He may be uncomfortable to listen to at times, but at least he can be trusted. Shame to ANYONE who would attempt to justify or excuse such callous behavior. Everyone has feelings, including Mr. Heart. His accusers may feel that they were very successful in hurting his reputation within this community and in how others may now see him, but I beg to differ. The one's most hurt by their actions are the people within this community, for I feel that they have been unfairly represented by this small group of people. I believe that most people at HoP would never condone such behavior. If this be the case, you should make your opinion known so as to prevent any further displays of such inexcusable actions and to call for an immediate apology to ALL who have been mistreated by them.

If they can not apologize, then let's have them; once again, inform us all about how 'big' Mr. Heart's ego is. Psychology teaches,(hey, I spelled it right), that the bigger the ego, the less ability to see oneself as ever being wrong, or feeling a sense of shame or remorse at one's actions. They are always justified in what they do, or in the blaming of others for what they do, no matter how devastating the results from their actions are. Now really everybody, doesn't that sound like Bush and the whole Neo-con movement. You can't ask governments to be held accountable for their actions if you are unwilling to do the same within your own community. Send a message.

It has often been said that, "Actions speak louder than words".
"Actions talk, bullsh!t walks", "Judge one, not by their words, but by their deeds". HEY, I could go on all day. Since I have instructed the jury to disregard all negative words that have been posted against Mr. Heart as inadmissible for reasons already explained, I now turn to the topic of Mr. Heart's accredited, (key word here folks), accomplishments.

TOO MANY to list here. Besides, I have not been given the permission to do so from Mr. Heart. But I tell ya what i'm a gonna do. I am creating a web site for the sole purpose of presenting his work on line, with streaming videos and everything. Spare no expense! Actually, Robert's brother is covering most of the costs. I will post it here when it is complete.

I would like to thank all of the people that have made it a point to supply me with the information that I requested. It has all been very helpful. If it sounds like I am going somewhere, I am. I have way too much to do for the next couple of months to have any desire to address the tantrums that will soon follow after the posting of this letter.

For those of you who appreciate the wisdom contained within Psychology,(hey, I'm two for two), I leave you with a riddle that concerns Mr.Heart. Since a lot of the criticism directed at Robert was due to the words written on his web site, then answer me this: Why are there SO MANY accomplishments,( awards, letters of gratitude from nations, certificates of recognition, feats of daring, and promotions that involved VERY famous people, etc.), that were never posted on his ex-web site, when they appear to be FAR, FAR greater than the ones that he did list?
What kind of a personality inspires people to feel uncomfortable with them in the short term, but then become endeared to them in the long term? Pull your books out!


The pen is mightier than the sword


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Thanks for the explanation mr historian. I can see that I got confused when I assumed you were a serious historian. Someone prepared to do at least some research, and examine the facts objectively. What you propose is a romanticised history, like Mills and Boon publish.









hehe


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:*sticks his hand up in the hope that Mr Historian shall return*



erm.. just a few things I have to say:

That was a long reply. I dont usually read the long posts on HOP because I get bored. Your reply was good and kept me reading.



1) "Is this considered acceptable behavior, in regards to how one MEMBER can treat another MEMBER at this web site?" - Robert Heart is NOT a member here. If he is then he has never posted.



2) I have never met Robert Heart. I have however met the people who speak of him in such an ill wind. These people I know, wouldnt not speak ill of someone, unless the person of who they speak actually is a twat. Some of these people who are speaking ill of Mr. Heart are some of the greatest people I have met, but it still does make me feel a bit redface and frown when I read them talking so negativly about someone. But if this is the case, and one that everyone agrees on, as much as I may not like it, it may just actually be true.



3) The idea that Mr. Heart has disappeared after reading thigns about him on HOP came into my head too. frown I really hope this is not the case.



4) "Mr." Glass is one of the people who I speak of in point 2. *Drew- ego boost coming up wink * He is greatly respected in the London juggling community, as well as the global community of spinners and jugglers. Although I did think that his last post was out of character and much angrier than usual. HOWEVER, Glass is NOT the type of person to post something like that without having a solid reason, and evidence for the line he takes.



So before you jump to the same line of thinking about the people who think the same about Mr. Heart, try seeing it from their perspective, and forgetting you know the brother of the subject wink



mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:These are all words. I still don't see any proof.

Plus, internet communities go on trust. I trust glass, and bluecat, and not just any old newbie messiah that turns up. And yes, I can let them influence my opinions because I trust them! Wooo!

Why you want mr Heart to be a god of staffing I don't know, but MY lineage is completely distinct from his, so I have no real interest apart from for comedy value.

I can't wait till RHTV comes along! That's be such fun! biggrin


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.


Stone
Stream Entrant
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 13th Jun 2001
Total posts: 2830
Posted:Good points UCOF.

mr historian please stop attacking glass. glass called you out, and offered you historic documentation, which you spurned. The more you attack others the less credible you sound. What really surprises me though, is that you think you are a writer ubblol yawn

So is this famous book of yours an autobiography or a biography ???????

tongue


If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh


bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:short reply:

UCOF: HOTFA is talking about glass's comment to him, not about RH.

I, and Several of the people on this sitehave met Robert Heart. how is a relating of a happening i experienced hearsay? I am a very calm and mild mannered person. things that make me angry stick in my mind very clearly, and i could relate to you the exact words of several of my and robert hearts conversation (near photographic memory helps, on occasion)

HOTFA: glass only posted those links so that discussion about RH could move to them, and not be in this thread. obviously this has failed, but that is common useage on this forum.

I did, in fact, invite RH to reply to the thread, before it got beyond reproach. i absolutely refuse to believe that he would disappear solely based on the opinions of a few hippies. he could have taken issue with any of the posts on it, you're right, but the robert heart i met is of stronger character than you give him credit for. my opinion (based on your dates) is that he disappeared before the thread was initiated, and has never read it. out of respect for the disappeared i would like them to be deleted. and if he returns(which i sincerely hope he will) i will go and ask him straight up why he did/said the things he did to me, my colleagues and friends.


as an aside about HOP: this is one of the friendliest sites i have EVER encountered, and the only thing people don't have time for is ego-trippers. you are unfortunate to have brought up/encountered one of the few threads that are erally quite unpleasant. I don't think you are helping it by appearing to be a robert heart evangelist and accusing us all(all 30,000 of us?) of being intolerant and unhelpful. I will admit that Glasses attack on you surprised me somewhat, but if it upsets you so, then report it to the moderators. that is what the triange button at the bottom of the post is for. I imagine that no-one else has, because although perhaps a little too much, everyone is wary of your attitude and actions so far and wanted to see how you would react, not because all agree with the post.

meg, unfortuantely for your linege i did actually learn some things from RH in Svendborg. and have passed them on to you biggrin

incidentally; i have 'accreditations' too: my name has been in several newspapers, and my CV is good enough for the UK government to pay me to go and study in Australia for a while this winter. Many people who don't know me think highly of me, including some who might be considered famous. None of these people actually know me, or have any reason not to think the sun shines out of my arse. in private, i could be an absolute arsehole, but to them i always present an approachable and affable side of me. that doesn't mean i'm not an arsehole. until you have met me, and spent time with me, please don't judge me either way. i trust i will do the same for you. and i ask you to do the same for robert heart and treat this discussion a lot more objectively rather than jumping in on the side of someone whom many people on this site HAVE met and been treated badly by. By that, i mean, please don't dangle carrots in front of us then withdraw them by saying RH hasn't given you permission to. You certainly won't win anyone over like that. If we could see some of his acheivements and positive aspects, we'd be a lot happier repenting and removing our 'attacks'

Rob


Holistic Spinner (I hope)


arashi
arashi

Pooh-Bah
Location: austin,tx
Member Since: 21st Mar 2002
Total posts: 2363
Posted:"I was fire dancing in the early 1980's. Its where my journey began... i dont make such brave claims as mister Heart though (and doubt im any where near as good) I did pass through Australia on my way home tho but dont profess to be the "person who brough fire to NZ" because I wasnt. * It was my grandfather * he use to make our staves And he was white, dose that count :P

A friend's grandmother was teaching fire poi and performing in the 1950's throughout NZ, America and around the globe. Unfortunately i doubt she's white enough to help you or myself either as we are all proud brown Maori."

look, above is the main point. which has been missed, apparently.

R.H. isn't the man you're looking for. ok, so he's done a lot, and you go right ahead and make a website, maybe people will respect him more if it's so important to you. but if you try to play him off as the father of this art just because he told you so... in the face of testimony otherwise, then you are going to have many more attacks on your credibility. and writing a book, and publishing it, isn't slander but is another kind of lying. that is what i mean by scandal or publicity stunt. there's a list of people in front of you and you choose the one with the most scandal involved!

your tone seems justifyably appalled but levelheaded, until you get to the part where you are going to make a R.H. website! and then again your threats to leave don't really strike me as productive or mature either.

second point here... glass is appalled and so are you... how about some maturity SOMEWHERE here? those were some pretty blaringly obvious misspellings, and your actions COULD BE CONSTRUED as fallacious.


-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.


Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:UCOF - Not an "active" member:
http://www.homeofpoi.com/ubbthreads/showmembers.php
br>
I'm interested by Stones last comment smile
Watches and waits



TheApprovingNinja
TheApprovingNinja

From the Ashes of a Ninja Rise THE HIPS OF RAGE
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 8th Jul 2003
Total posts: 371
Posted:Right this has all gotten a bit silly.

The fact that the HOP world is even aware of mr heart is my fault and I am truly sorry that it has all come down to this, both for the disapearnce of Mr. Heart if it is even related. And mostly to the fact that this insane thread exists. And mostly for the fact that my good friend was driven to write an angry post, something which he has counselled me against many times.

So here is why I started this whole crazy thing and I hope that someday this will all just fade away

I along with several others met Mr. Heart at the EJC 2003 Svendborg.

I grew up (juggling wise) in the London juggling community, which seems to be very well respected around the world. Through that community I have met many many beautiful people. People who could do amazing things that no one else in the world can do. This trend continued as i went to the EJC where I met even more beautfiul people who could do even more amazing things. These are truly amazing things that only a handful of people in the world can do.

and not one of them was arrogant, except for one notable exception.

In the juggling and spinning community at large there is only one unwriten rule, though shall not big thyself up. Everyone I've met is aware that no matter how good they are no matter what they've done whether it's juggling insane siteswaps, or inventing new classes of moves they are not arrogant.

They might get a bit excited and run around showing everyone their new discovery but their past accomplishments no matter how great, and there were a great many ground breakers at that convention. Led them to behave in a manner like Mr. Heart

And my friends and I didn't react well to his personality type and we would sit around and bitch about him (not something I'm proud of) but every other day we would stop ourselves and say no this man is a human being no one deserves to have people talk about him and then he would go and do something even more outrageous and the whole cycle would start again.

My own screen name comes from the renegade piss take act the we did after he was heard to comment that his spinning style was approved by twenty of the worlds top martial artists. Even if it is true then loudly declaming it and struting like a chicken is not the right way to get across this intersting fact about yourself.

If the historian of the fire arts is making a court case out of this then Mr. hearts crime was arrogance the one unforgivable thing in the juggilng community. And if that doesn't stand up in court well this is the internet.

That's why I posted up his web adress, and many of the things posted were just reactions to the tone of his website which continued his theme of arrogance which as we've noted people don't take well to.

And if you do post his website with all the great things he does then great it'll be a good resource but I don't care if he was single handedly responsible for the invetion of fire itself NOTHING that he could have done would make his behaviour acceptable
(he was also mean to several friends of mine but that's beside the point)

right that was very rambely post but there it is, the more i reread it the more wound up i get and add more (I feel like kicking a chair over now)

this whole thread sickens me


Viva UGLY STAFF


UCOF
UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel

Member Since: 17th Apr 2002
Total posts: 15414
Posted:"UCOF: HOTFA is talking about glass's comment to him, not about RH." I know wink hug

Drew: What am Isupposed to do with that link? confused I tried looking for names like RobertHeart, but nothing there was.

"I have way too much to do for the next couple of months to have any desire to address the tantrums that will soon follow after the posting of this letter." - HOTFA. ubbcrying [censored]. You cant just post something like that then run away! eek



bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Written by: historian_of_fire_arts
I have way too much to do for the next couple of months to have any desire to address the tantrums that will soon follow after the posting of this letter.




also frown about this.

please wait around, and fight your corner(if thats what you want to do). You won't win anyone over by effectively saying 'here's the truth, i don't care if none of you agree, cause your opinions are just tantrums'


Holistic Spinner (I hope)


Zauberdach
Zauberdach

Sometimes sword wofter
Location: Edinburgh
Member Since: 10th Mar 2005
Total posts: 199
Posted:I've found Robert Heart, can I have 500 please? He is pretending to be "historian of fire arts" to promote discussion about himself on HOP.

This is just my opinion and is therefore clearly wrong, no one could have that big an ego surely?

This is not intended to upset anyone. Sorry. But it does look like it...


IMPORTANT: Any views or opinions are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of a sane person.

"just get the f**k on with it and make me the anti-christ already!"


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