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Forums > Other Toys > FMX Motocross, BMX, and skating naming moves thread

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:So I really dislike the way that these exreme sports have say a "360" and an "opposite 360", which is apparently much harder than a 360 because it's turning the other way.

Discuss.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:ooh - that sounded like a semi-serious proposition.

well, allow me to retort... smile

like i said a good few posts ago, the difficulty level of advanced skating is not directly comparable to contact staff - nor to juggling or poi spinning.

learning a poi move backwards is admittedly pretty damn easy.
the investment of time required to learn for example, a 4 or 5 ball shower the other way to your natural direction is fairly considerable but still acceptable (a month or so if you have it solid in your natural direction).

in comparison, learning to skate in reverse is seriously hardcore - it takes years just to learn it your natural way so learning to do it backwards (although it might only take half the time) is still a serious commitment.

i suppose you came to your current viewpoint because everyone you know can write equally well with both hands?

no?

thus, we seem to have reached the crux of the matter: does everyone have the ability to become ambidextrous with ease?

i don't reckon tongue

doing things the 'wrong way' *is* harder and the harder the 'thing' is (in this case, harder meaning 'the more spatial awareness it requires'), the harder it is to do the other way.

sorry but that's the deal sister.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:actually, I find it quite easy to write with my left hand, unfortunately it always comes out in mirror writing for some reason. Not really sure what's going on in my brain there.

I don't care how difficult the activity is, it's not in any way harder to learn it in the other direction hand etc. In fact it's easier. It's just doped up [censored] head skaters fmx'ers and bmx's being sissy boy lame'os when they say switch or opposite is harder.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:ubblol you're so slack you can't even be bothered to do anything other than restate your erroneous opinion in almost identical words.

anyway, i'm a snowboarder and as that ain't on your list so i must be exempt!
wicked biggrin

riding switch is harder to do, even if it does take less time to learn.


cole. x

things to think about one day:
do you know what fakie is and why its even harder than switch?
what's harder a backflip or a frontflip?
have you noticed that high divers only ever twist in one direction?
if you are left handed, doesn't writing in mirror make more sense since you have less chance of smudging your work?


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:STATEMENT ONE: Movements can be harder to learn than their mirrored equivalents.

where mirrored refers to left\right mirroring in comparison to the human body that is performing the movement.

and 'harder' refers to a universal issue of some kind with the movement which will make it more difficult for anyone attempting to perform it (as opposed to personal issues of left\right handedness)

STATEMENT TWO: it's harder to learn something both ways, than just to learn it one way.

Statement Two seems obviously and demonstrably true to me.

Statement One i thought was false, but now have started to think about the asymmetry of anatomy.

Are humans symmetrical in regards to weight distribution?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

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Total posts: 15414
Posted:Switch

biggrin

Why not just learn them all at the same time? umm


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: coleman

what's harder a backflip or a frontflip?



that's switching the axis of mirroring that all of the previous discussion has been in regard to. Don't cheat when you're winning tongue

Written by: coleman
if you are left handed, doesn't writing in mirror make more sense since you have less chance of smudging your work?



No, turning the paper 90degrees clockwise and writing vertically down gives the same advantage while still leaving your legibility undamaged.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

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Location: Southampton - Possibly...

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Posted:Will you guys calm down........... or i will strike down upon thee with great vengance and furious anger wink

Can i have some of that tastey beverage biggrin

Left, right, backward, forwards - i say its all hard - Meg - you try jumping off a rooftop backwards as opposed to how you have done in this trick at the bottom left of your page ............. then try jumping back the other way wink

Easier - i think not smile

But great thread none the less ubblol


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:strugz - we are all calm mate meditate

its just fun to seem passionate and angry about stuff sometimes:

does coleman look like a bitch?

...

i said 'DO I LOOK LIKE A BITCH?'!??!!! wink



Written by: simian


Written by: coleman
what's harder a backflip or a frontflip?



that's switching the axis of mirroring that all of the previous discussion has been in regard to. Don't cheat when you're winning tongue





the discussion started off talking about frontside and backside turns, not mirroring along any particular axis.

most of the discussion we have been referring to 'opposite' or even more simply 'the other way'.



so i reckon my question is still valid. tongue





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: strugz
you try jumping off a rooftop backwards as opposed to how you have done in this trick at the bottom left of your page ............. then try jumping back the other way



it's still just as easy... Written by: simian
...where mirrored refers to left\right mirroring in comparison to the human body that is performing the movement.



tongue

[insert random insult]


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

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Posted:ubblol



in the virtual in which you live maybe simian............maybe....



but without video playback mirroring that jump from low level to high level would involve some serious amounts of ignited anus gas ubbloco



kahoona burger anyone?


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Strugz: read again spank tongue



Cole:

Does a FS turn not turn into a BS turn if the movement is mirrored along that axis?



i don't understand skateboarding much. But that won't stop me whooping you in this thread . Meg's my bitch. Don't test me boy.



Are you saying that your arguments become far more untenable when applied purely to a left/right body axis as opposed to a vague "the other way" which could relate to reversing in any axis including time?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

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Total posts: 15414
Posted:ubblol

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

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Posted:ok ok ubbloco

so maybe im just stupid.......... or maybe im not and my brain is stupid.......

or maybe i should stop mumbling bollox in this thread........

who knows rolleyes

& yes Cole - you do look like a biatch, a very tall handsome one wink

Simian: your way to fecking clever ubbloco

**makes mental note to smoke less**


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:monkey - no.



there was no mention of doing it switch *and* having opposite spin - meg's original post only referred to reversing the direction of the spin.



same foot forward, opposite spin = very different body mechanics.



don't test me,

they can't arrest me,

i'll fake right cross-over and shoot lefty.




*flutters eyes @ strugz*



ping?





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Pon----

no wait,

smoke less wink

haha - ill be a match for simian in no time cool

Cole - you busy this eve kiss

wink


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:Ballerinas spin both ways with either foot forward and you don't hear their skinny asses complaining about it.

I remember the days when Meg was my bitch. Now she just hoards my rolling pin shrug


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Pong

Strugz: where did you get the idea that the penetrating heat lance that is my incredible monkey brain got its power from smoking less? ubblol kiss

Written by: coleman
there was no mention of doing it switch *and* having opposite spin - meg's original post only referred to reversing the direction of the spin.



Meg's original post was vague and loosely worded.
Immediately after that you pointed out the difference between FS\BS & Switch\Fakie
Meg then made it plain (in the third post on the thread) that she was referring to switch.

Now stop stalling for time. Do you assert that STATEMENT ONE above is true or false?

And is hiding your assertions in the form of leading questions a thing that girly wimps might do?

(whispers: what's fakie?)


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

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Total posts: 15414
Posted:Go look at the link i posted ignorant ape. tongue

Fakie (i belive) is when you are standing towards the front of the board, with your weaker foot at the front which is used to nollie, rather than standing towards the back of the board with your stronger foot on the kicktail being used to ollie.

confused

i think.


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:The government hated your link, so i couldn't look at it. frown

Thus my ignorance is due to political reasons, rather than personal.



ah, so a switch fakie would be the same as a fakie, only with the (arguably redundant) words "weaker" and "stronger" being transposed.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:Written by: coleman

the discussion started off talking about frontside and backside turns, not mirroring along any particular axis.
most of the discussion we have been referring to 'opposite' or even more simply 'the other way'.




it kind of did, but mainly I was talking about skating switch, and bmx'ers and fmx'ers having "opposite" 360's 540's and corkscrews and the like. (why they can't call them 180 back somersaults is beyond me, but I always enjoyed systematic naming in chemistry.)

backside and front side turns are both identical if you take off of two feet. It's only when you attach you seperate your feet that they become different.

Gymnasts don't learn everything both ways either, like high divers. That's cos they know what they're about. They're doing it for show. So they learn one direction very very well. They don't talk [censored] about the other side being harder to learn. It's not.

I don't really understand your definition of harder. You keep going yes it's harder! Where I can clearly see that it's not. In real life, it's easier to learn. We've already established this. Maybe it's harder cos it's a different movement that's more complicated. Clearly it's not. Maybe it's harder because they haven't already learned it. Oh wait that must be it. If you haven't learned it already, it must be harder.

Wait, maybe it's harder because they don't normally turn that way. Well maybe they should learn it then!

I keep repeating my arguements because you haven't argued against them.

You're definately of harder seems to be: Something is harder because I'm not as used to it and I haven't learned it properly yet.

I'm talking about weather something is actually harder or not. Not just what the subjective feeling of it is.

I know for a fact that the other direction version of the matrix that I haven't practised yet, isn't harder. It's just the other way. And once I learn it, it'll be just the same as the first one I learnt. Much like the steve. I can do both directions with my eyes closed, But I don't think one is innately more difficult because I learned the other one first.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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strugz
BRONZE Member since Mar 2002

strugz

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Location: Southampton - Possibly...

Total posts: 3964
Posted:Written by: simian

Strugz: where did you get the idea that the penetrating heat lance that is my incredible monkey brain got its power from smoking less? ubblol kiss



Dude give it a few more years and you will know what i mean.........trust me wink

cool


"...We don't stop playing because we get old, we get old because we stop playing......."

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:simian - are you seriously presenting meg's vagueness as a counter to my arguments?

specifically, i disagree with the adendum to statement one that says that being left/right handed is a "personal issue".

it suggests that people are naturally ambidextrous and are just lazy if they do not learn to mirror all of their movements - which is what i've been arguing against from the start.

i'll say it again if you like: i do not believe that everyone is naturally ambidextrous, hence doing things mirrored is harder than doing them normally.


and onto the extra bits:

ucof is pretty much right on the wsitch/fakie issue (if slightly incomprehensible):

fakie is riding 'backwards'.
switch is riding in a normal stance but with your unnatural foot forward.
so fakie could be loosely considered as performing a trick that is time-reversed, and switch could be considered as a trick being mirrored.

snowboarders use the word 'switch' as a substitute for the word 'fakie'.
this is because riding switch in the true sense is not possible unless you stop and adjust your bindings but boarders do not usually nollie when riding fakie and hence refer to this way of riding as switch.
which makes snowboarders extra cryptic and double hard tongue


finally, your leading question is both clever and funny smile
but i assert that leading questions are an established and accepted form of crypticness and are not wimpy at all - this is hop, not your university debate society tongue


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:STATEMENT ONE: Movements can be harder to learn than their mirrored equivalents.

The crux of Meg's arguments appears to be that this is false. No?

STATEMENT TWO: it's harder to learn something both ways, than just to learn it one way.

Whereas the crux of Cole's arguments appears to be that this is true. No?

Thus you are both right, but i AM THE VICTOR. No?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:doh, cross posting sux



my original addendum to statement one was not mean to discount the difficulties of left\right handedness etc, but to point out that such difficulty is dependent on the performer, rather than a difficulty intrinsic to the movement itself (such as strugz's time reverse roofjump).



Written by: cole
simian - are you seriously presenting meg's vagueness as a counter to my arguments?





yes. i call it "my masterstroke". smile


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

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Posted:confused

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:so did cole reply to my post or was that same time posting ness?

"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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coleman
SILVER Member since Aug 2002

coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay

Total posts: 7330
Posted:[edit: it was sametime posting meg - is sametime posting harder than splittime posting...? wink ]



i refuse to respond to your leading questions monkey on the basis that you might be correct tongue



statement one is only false if you are ambidextrous.



statement two is not what i am arguing.

if you learn to ride a skateboard equally well in both goofy and regular stance (ignoring which you percieve to be 'harder' at this stage) i believe there will still be a preference for learning some tricks in regular and some tricks goofy which can be traced back to your natural preference for left/right handed motions.



this discussion is not really about what we are arguing about.



the true issue here is: are people naturally pre-disposed to doing something in either a right or left handed way?



meg - how do gymnasts and high divers choose which direction they twist in in the first place then?

do you really think it is an arbitrary choice?

i think it more likely that they try it when they start out, find one way easier to do than the other and stick with that for the rest of their career.



i think the real reason gymnasts and divers don't learn their moves the other way to their natural preference is because they don't get any more points for it in competition so it isn't in their interests to put the effort into learning it.



i do not disagree that once you have put in the time learning something mirrored, that it can become as solid as your natural preference.



which makes gymnasts bigger wusses than everyone else put together.



which in turn is pretty damn obvious - lycra??? come on...





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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UCOF
SILVER Member since Apr 2002

UCOF

Carpal \'Tunnel


Total posts: 15414
Posted:"i think the real reason gymnasts and divers don't learn their moves the other way to their natural preference is because they don't get any more points for it in competition so it isn't in their interests to put the effort into learning it."

Dingdingdingdingdingdingding!

bounce


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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: cole
the true issue here is:





damn! outmaneuvered! that coleman is one slippery sonovagun... ubblol



of left\rightness - well obviously. S'genetic innit.



Written by: some dodgy "expert"
Why 90% of us use the right hand is a major unexplained fact in neuroscience and human evolution. Other animals including our nearest relative, the chimpanzee, show hand lateralisation that occurs in a 50:50 ratio (Marchant & McGrew, 1996). As handedness is inherited in nonhuman primates such as the chimpanzee (Hopkins, Bales & Bennett, 1994), this was most probably due to an ancient selection of a common right handedness.



"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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mcp
PLATINUM Member since May 2003

mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.

Total posts: 5276
Posted:yes, that's a beautiful response cole. Thank god skaters don't care about points and the like eh?

Still, You haven't answered the main point of my post. Just the padding.

extreme sports people who use the term switch and opposite make out that this is intrinsically harder than their normal way. It isn't.

Gymnasts don't do the other direction stuff. Xtreme martial artists do and they don't call it an opposite aerial. They call it an aerial.

Many people start pk, gymnastics, breakin, etc with a natural side they prefer doing things on. For a lot of people this is the left side, with take offs on the left foot. And this is right handed people. But depending on what they're doing, they learn both ways or just one.

They don't then proceed to crow about how good they are cos they learned both ways. Nor do they repeat tricks just to show that they can do them both ways.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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