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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:In general, altho heterosexual, I don't really care who I kiss. I mean, kissing a girl isn't any different than kissing a guy except they NEVER have stubble. And if they're a good kisser than hey, everyone wins.

But lately I've been plagued by this random desire to kiss a girl I know. I'm pretty sure she's straight. (Even if she wasn't I totally don't see why she'd be attracted to me). And thus, like, for example, walking up to her and saying "would you like to kiss me", even if I was drunk, seems a bad idea.

But I really wanna! Bah. Advice? And, Hetero guys and gals, anything like this ever happen to you?


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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jenna@texada


newbie
Location: Texada Island, B.C.

Total posts: 12
Posted:I haven't read any posts in this forum, so I hope my ideas wont sound affected but I'm an 18-yr-old girl who has only kissed 2 people outside her immediate family. The first was a good friend, a girl named Jillian who sits beside me as I write this. The second was a 24-yr-old male, a talented firespinner named Ian who I wanted an orgasm from and who I broke up with yesterday. Both kisses (from each) could definately be improved upon but they seemed almost identical in how my mouth moved and felt. Actually, I wondered at points if they haven't been kissing each other before kissing me... *Jill laughs and shakes her head*. No, I think I have wanted to kiss WAY more girls than I have ever wanted to kiss guys. And the FEELING of kissing a girl, when you're a girl, and I think when you're a guy too, that is way way nicer. Guys are dominating and girls are soft and emotional. I hope to kiss more of both in the near future.

Happy kissing!
Jenna


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Just for the record: I don't think that my GF shouldn't have a life that doesn't revolve around me. She's perfectly entitled to do whatever she wants to do with her friends, so long as *they're just friends*. I don't like people trying to chat her up or kissing her (sexually) because I don't see how that can possibly be considered alright.

It's not a matter of her being my property... I don't treat her like that. It's that other people should have the commmon sense to realise "She's HIS girlfriend, so that means I CAN'T chat her up, grope her, flirt seriously, or kiss her with tongues". The same goes for me, I wouldn't imagine that she'd appreciate me french kissing a lass on the other side of the club, or when she was out of town. (But I could ask, you never know wink ubblol )

Written by: Kyrian

Actively trying to pick up someone you know is in a relationship that doesn't allow that? Yeah, thats definetly a possible moral failing, you're likely making them uncomfortable.




But you *would* pick them up if they were flirting with you and comfortable with it? How does this absolve you of guilt? YOU are still sleeping with them, regardless of who flirted with who. You still know that they are in a monogamous relationship. Therefore IMO it's wrong. How are you supposed to know what their partner feels like, or what state their relationship is in? What if they've got a perfectly nice realtionship, and one of the partners is simply being unfaithful? How is that possibly a good thing?

And I want invisible ink that only shows up when licked. biggrin


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Molly

If you were going to mark someone wouldn't you do it with coloured pens? confused wink



Finger paints. It's more fun.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:"What if they've got a perfectly nice relationship, and one of the partners is simply being unfaithful?" Er?? Hows this perfectly nice? huh???

Anyway, to answer what I understand of what you said, yes, if they flirt with me and wanted to be.. picked up. That got redundant.

Anyway, what am I doing wrong? Did you read what I said I was against in the post above (er, on the previous page, possibly)? And how I said sleeping with someone who's in a relationship isn't what the problem is? It may be wrong in your opinion... thats fine... but I don't see the problem with it. Personal responsibility and all that.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Sethis

It's not a matter of her being my property... I don't treat her like that. It's that other people should have the commmon sense to realise "She's HIS girlfriend, so that means I CAN'T chat her up, grope her, flirt seriously, or kiss her with tongues". The same goes for me, I wouldn't imagine that she'd appreciate me french kissing a lass on the other side of the club, or when she was out of town. (But I could ask, you never know wink ubblol )




I think the point is... I wouldn't want someone to refrain from kissing my girlfriend because she's "Mine". I would want someone to refrain from kissing my girlfriend because she doesn't want to kiss them. The same way she wouldn't kiss them if she were single and didn't want to kiss them.

Consider 3 situations.

Random boy at party far away from me sees a girl at a party who he thinks is cute.

Situation A: Girl says "Sorry, I don't have a boyfriend but I don't find you attractive and I don't want to kiss you"

Situation B: Girl says "Sorry, I want to kiss you but I have a boyfriend so I can't."

Situation C: Girl says "Sorry, I don't want to kiss you as I only like kissing my boyfriend and don't want to kiss you."

I would rather have my girlfriend not kiss someone because they didn't want to, rather than felt obligated to me.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

I don't belive in third party guilt for this situation.



I think it depends on the situation. If the 'relationship' is ending and parties are being honest, I think it's fine. If you're enabling a dishonest person to be dishonest, then I think that entails some guilt.

If someone is in a seemingly happy relationship, and lies to their lover and sneaks out and you know this... and you still sleep with them. I think you do have some level of guilt.

I believe I have a responsiblity to the concept of honesty.

In an even bigger stretch... if a friend of mine asked me "Hey, NYC, can you drive me to Queens, I want to go cheat on my husband and my lover lives in Queens"... I don't think I could do it with a clean concience. And I'm not even the one taking my clothes off.

I think it's THAT level of guilt that a third party assumes.

And Kyrian, would it matter if they were married? Or if there were children in the marriage? From your logic, it seems like it wouldn't since you're not the one "commiting the crime".


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: NYC

I think the point is... I wouldn't want someone to refrain from kissing my girlfriend because she's "Mine". I would want someone to refrain from kissing my girlfriend because she doesn't want to kiss them.




Fine, that's what I meant. It's difficult to phrase when I'm not talking to someone face to face.

Written by: NYC

Consider 3 situations.

Random boy at party far away from me sees a girl at a party who he thinks is cute.

Situation A: Girl says "Sorry, I don't have a boyfriend but I don't find you attractive and I don't want to kiss you"

Situation B: Girl says "Sorry, I want to kiss you but I have a boyfriend so I can't."

Situation C: Girl says "Sorry, I don't want to kiss you as I only like kissing my boyfriend and don't want to kiss you."

I would rather have my girlfriend not kiss someone because they didn't want to, rather than felt obligated to me.



Yeah, but that presupposes that the male is unaware that the girl is dating someone. If the guy *knows* she's got a boyfriend, then is it an unreasonable expectation that he won't even try to get a kiss?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:No. Wouldn't lie about it either tho. I'd like to make that much clear. If they ask me to keep quiet about it i'll say "no." Unless some rather impressive scene comes up (I can think of one or two from fiction stories which I'd be inclined to agree with) I'd hold to the honesty part. Its not necessarily dishonest. It could just be... whatever it is. But if you don't lie about it its not dishonest surely....

Didn't say I'd drive someone somewhere or otherwise help them have an affair either. The general case is I wouldn't. But I don't think that refraining from doing something with someone "because they're in a relationship" is a good enough reason. Or because they're married. Or because they have kids. Those arn't the right reasons. If they're out there looking for something else than clearly there's a problem that needs solving.... And no I don't blame the third party, (I;m usually thinking of this happenning to me, like if i were married, but if its me doing the action as well sure) for their involvment. What they're doing, imo, isn't wrong, unless they belive it is.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I'm going to assume that this:

Written by: Kyrian

What they're doing, imo, isn't wrong, unless they belive it is.




Isn't your universal view on morality? So why is it different in the context of relationships? "I don't think that cheating is a bad thing, so it's fine for me to do it"?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:You don't listen to me sometimes.... *oy*

Did I say cheating was ok? No. But what I mean is breaking someone's trust ain't ok. Its not about the sex.

Really I just don't belive its wrong to be with someone whos in a relationship. But you said you did. So I guess its wrong for you. I dunno. Maybe it isn't. I Wouldn't judge it as such... but I'm trying to not force me view on you and say its not wrong. There's definetly relativism in morality. Indeed, there's a case for total relativism, but thats going to take this even further off topic....

So, my opinion(an attempt at a nutshell):

Its wrong to break an agreement you have with someone.
Its more wrong if its a crap self serving reason.
There's nothing inherently wrong with consensual sex with another (for the sake of argument I'm going to say adult) person.
What can make it wrong is if in doing this you're breaking an agreement.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Ah, I understand what you mean. However, I still ask whether:

It's wrong to help someone break an agreement they have with someone.

Its more wrong if its a crap self serving reason (like feeling horny at the time).

There's something inherently wrong with consensual sex with another (for the sake of ...) person who is in a relationship where they have agreed with their partner "I am going to have sexual contact with you and no other."

And I'm not trying to force anything on you, it's just unusual to find someone who has a different view to me who's willing to discuss it calmly and rationally. smile


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

So, my opinion(an attempt at a nutshell):

Its wrong to break an agreement you have with someone.
What can make it wrong is if in doing this you're breaking an agreement.



Is it wrong to assist someone in breaking an agreement? Like driving someone to commit adultry?

Is it wrong to assist someone in breaking an agreement? Like by sleeping with them if they're married?

Is it wrong to assist someone in breaking an agreement? Like by 'working harder' to make them break it?

I say yes on all three. And you?


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:My gut reaction is, no, its only wrong if you by assisting are breaking an agrement you personally have made. By extension, you could easily make taxi drivers "wrong" in a lot of cases, or people who run trains, etc, etc. Going the other way you could say driving someone to commit a muder is ok. Clearly this falls somewhere between the two extremes.

You two have one opinion on that. I have another. When phrased as assisting, it does make me think. I admit that when i first looked at it what i said was
1. No, definetly not, but i'd be unlikely to do it.
2. No.
3. Yes, *if* you're infringing on their rights or comfort....

but.... there is some moral point to "assisting them in breaking an agreement."

However:
If you know your buddies out at a pub later than he said he'd be (or when he said he was going somewhere else entirely) are you wrong for:

a. staying, if thats why he's staying (and you know it).
b. encouraging him to stay, since he;s already there
c. talking to him, even tho you might be encouraging him to go home, if you know he's staying because you're there.

Similar situation... and I'd say that assigning guilt to the third party puts too much burden on taking respsonsibility for your buddies choices in all but *maybe* b. And even then, I think i'd tend towards nothing more than a mild exasperation with said third party, rather than a serious case of "that was a bunch of [censored]"

And thats why I'm going to stick with my general answers of "no". Because there comes a point where its infringeing on peoples rights to go about and live their lives to have to take responsibility for something someone else is doing. And I think that these cases are, assuming there is no personal debt to the other person involved, putting too much of the burden on said third party. I wouldn't be mad at anyone who slept with my bf/partner/husband even if we'd agreed that we wern't going to do that, and whilst I understand that the same courtesy may not be extended by everyone, I don't think its wrong.

I admit to having some qualms about the idea of being an accomplice to what could be dishonesty etc in the abstract, but there comes a point (and i'm usually quite bad at recognizing it to be honest) where you have to just let other people do their actions and you do yours. However, this time, I'm going to say thats the point, and I'm not going to stress about whether I'm responsible for what they chose to do.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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FireSmurf


FireSmurf

member
Location: Northern Ireland, Antrim, Ball...

Total posts: 31
Posted:Written by: *Aime*

Other than that I suggest vodka. Garenteed inhibition remover ubblol



I Love the way you think...


Thomas Bjork
[Fire Artist]
[clown]

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Rouge Dragon
BRONZE Member since Jul 2003

Rouge Dragon

Insert Champagne Here
Location: without class distinction, Aus...

Total posts: 13215
Posted:What about when you know your friend is cheating and his girlfriend asks you if he is. You know he's cheating, but he's your best friend. on the other hand, you feel the whole "female, sisterhood" thingo towards her.

or is this off topic?


i would have changed ***** to phallus, and claire to petey Petey

Rougie: but that's what I'm doing here
Arnwyn: what letting me adjust myself in your room?..don't you dare quote that on HoP...

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Nah, nothings off topic at this point if it relates tongue

I wouldn't put myself into a situation where I had to lie without some very impressive reason, so I'd tell her.
On the other hand, I've learned that telling people the truth about their relationships does bad things for you. Like they all hate you when all you did was say the truth.
On the other hand it seems she has a good idea...

Anyway I can't lie very well. So thats my 2cents, would be, tell her.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:This thread was winning for the sheer fact of girls kissing... and then it started to fail because of seriousness.

Since when is social chat serious?

poo.

XD


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

However:
If you know your buddies out at a pub later than he said he'd be (or when he said he was going somewhere else entirely) are you wrong for:

a. staying, if thats why he's staying (and you know it).
b. encouraging him to stay, since he;s already there
c. talking to him, even tho you might be encouraging him to go home, if you know he's staying because you're there.
And thats why I'm going to stick with my general answers of "no". Because there comes a point where its infringeing on peoples rights to go about and live their lives to have to take responsibility for something someone else is doing.

I admit to having some qualms about the idea of being an accomplice to what could be dishonesty etc in the abstract, but there comes a point (and i'm usually quite bad at recognizing it to be honest) where you have to just let other people do their actions and you do yours. However, this time, I'm going to say thats the point, and I'm not going to stress about whether I'm responsible for what they chose to do.



In the pub situation. Actually, this happened a few days ago. My buddy who's NOTORIOUSLY late was hanging out with me and I knew he had to be somewhere. So I reminded him a few times (as he kept getting distracted) and he made it on time. OK, fine, 15 minutes late but that's on time for him.

I was having fun with him and would have liked to hang out longer but, since I cared about him, I reminded him of his comittment and stopped distracting him with things I knew he would be distracted by.

Obviously, I'm not meddling in his life or nagging or harassing him to do something. I'm just kindly reminding him because we're friends and my friends look out for each other.

I have a coworker who's the opposite. She'd let a bookshelf fall on me because she 'didn't want to get involved'. One of those "Yeah, I knew the bookshelf was going to fall on you days ago but since I'm not legally abliged to inform you I really don't feel guilty."

I think there's a difference between letting people make their own decisions, and buying an alcoholic a beer.

Maybe it's because I'm SO goodlooking that it really is unfair. If I hit on people who were happily married they'd instantly leave their husbands for a taste of NYC. I guess since y'all aren't as pretty, if someone's gonna slum to smooch with you, they probably weren't that attached to their significant others anyway.

wink ubblol


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:umm
naughty


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Not right now, I've got parents showing up soon.

eek !

[Derailing for Kael]


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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SmallBoy - x


SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London

Total posts: 2737
Posted:Hey kyrian

Errrm, kiss her, and if she say "get the [censored] off", then apologise laugh it off, if she says "Hey beautiful you're great and this is what I've always wanted" then what?....do you want to go out with her?, you want to see her naked?.....if not then it's probably not a good idea to start pulling her chain regardless of her reaction. Think it through and then stop thinking about it - ACT!

if you think about it too long, it'll never happen or it'll go wrong or something horrible.
decide if you're going to or not and stick to it

If you still want ot go thru with it then, think "you've been knocked back before and you will again, but if you dont do it then it's your fault and you have to live with yourself forever - xxx"

I failed miserably to kiss someone REALLY FU**ING CUTE a while back and when I think about it, then I realise it might have happened and it pisses me off.
Recently I thought f**k it, i kissed someone I'd fancied for ages (that is far too cute for me), and it's working out brilliantly......

Screw what your friends think "if they don't get the girl on girl thing "they aint normal" " -remember....lol xxx
(You were just drunk.....lol xxx)

Stay cool honey - x


Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free..., United Kingd...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:Written by: NYC


Maybe it's because I'm SO goodlooking that it really is unfair. If I hit on people who were happily married they'd instantly leave their husbands for a taste





ubblol

Leave some married women for me and kyrian please NYC. wink


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:ubblol

I think you guys can have the married women... tongue

I have to say the bookcase thing I would only do with people I don't like umm hopefully she's just odd....

And yes, so, reminding people of things they have to do is good... what happens when they don't listen? At what point is it their problem?
I admit with a stranger I'm far more inclined to stay uninvolved, but I've had some bad expiriences even telling friends that I knew their s.o. was cheating on them, sometimes stuff just happens... sometimes they never even find out. And there's a brilliant NHS study tracking some of this stuff (as pertains to children's biological fathers) which really makes me wonder if its even as much under our concious control as we'd like to think....

Not advocating anyone using that as an excuse by a long shot. Just figuring that there's a lot of stuff out there we don't understand.

On that note, I think people have a lot more control over their actions in regards to sex than recovering/recovered/current drug addicts have over drugs. Just a thought on the analogy. I might be *wrong* in trusting people to be able to think rationally and make their own decisions (look at mike's clientelle ubblol) but I have to start somewhere on the not taking on the world thing.....

And thanks small smile x.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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ma'tina
BRONZE Member since Mar 2005

ma'tina

multiplex
Location: somewhere..., Germany

Total posts: 611
Posted:....something like that perhaps...

[image]http://www.homeofpoi.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=6837&password=&sort=1&cat=500&page=1[/image]

btw, i'm hetero ...or even a bit bi

EDITED_BY: ma'tina (1128095825)


- Ho Sa -
kisses & peace & love to beautiful madges
*rever le temps le prendre*

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KaelGotRice
GOLD Member since Jul 2003

KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA

Total posts: 1584
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

I think you guys can have the married women... tongue




You don't have to cheat NYC, but I do believe the good woman said liking milfs is perfectly A-OK!

ubblol


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University, United Kingdo...

Total posts: 1762
Posted:NYC, if there's anything bigger than your ego walking around ten I want it caught and shot, it's a threat to humanity! wink

(Sorry, couldn't resist that one)

And shouldn't this thread have moved into "Discussion" by now? I keep expecting to log on and find it in another catagory... rolleyes


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:But but the kissing girls part is chatty!

More people respond to that here. I havn't strangled it yet.....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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