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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:In general, altho heterosexual, I don't really care who I kiss. I mean, kissing a girl isn't any different than kissing a guy except they NEVER have stubble. And if they're a good kisser than hey, everyone wins.

But lately I've been plagued by this random desire to kiss a girl I know. I'm pretty sure she's straight. (Even if she wasn't I totally don't see why she'd be attracted to me). And thus, like, for example, walking up to her and saying "would you like to kiss me", even if I was drunk, seems a bad idea.

But I really wanna! Bah. Advice? And, Hetero guys and gals, anything like this ever happen to you?


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:what if i lived in timbuktoo?

no, i don't live in canada, neither does she. but i'm thinking she don't live too near canada either,.... most people don't really... just me and some l33t canadians... hah.. i need more sleep....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:l337_poier: ubblol

Kyrian: So you wouldn't mind if someone had a one night stand with your current boyfriend?

Isn't it worse to do it when they're not there?

What's the difference between flirting with someone continuously, and kissing? What is "Socially kissing?" Do you kiss on the lips, or just the cheek? Do you use tongues? How is it better to do it with the person *not* there? Doesn't that just make them paranoid?


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:I don't have a boyfriend. If you were getting at the boy in york, than no, I would not. (I'd be happy actually, for him!).

Er, surely its rude to do it when they are? And if they arn't, they wern't using them then....

I don't know what your first questions on about. Socially kissing would be when its not meant romantically/sexually altho if i wrote that i may have misspoken. I don't know whats up with the next few, but surely you can kiss anyone you want on the cheek??? Really I kiss friends on the lips closed-mouth just friendly not-sexual all the time even....
I guess I don't understand the last bit about them not being there and the paranoia, but yes paranois is bad... thats a different issue, tho, insecurity. And trust between the partners.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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screech


screech

circling on the edge of madness
Location: away with the faeries

Total posts: 889
Posted:i'm submissive i never move in on someone else, but if someone elses partner moves in on you they're obviously not happy so is there a problem?

finland finland finland
the country where i want to be
pony trekking or camping
or just watching tv

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

When they have a bf/gf they arn't unobtainable either, it just takes more work also.....




Dunno, this is still troubling.

I have lots of friends who are openly poly, but that's the thing, they're honest about it. In fact, most of them tell you it when they first chat seriously with someone who MIGHT be interested.

So either:
1) Someone is in an open relationship, in which case it shouldn't be very hard to trade kisses and you wouldn't need to work at it.
2) Someone is in a comitted relationship, in which case it's kinda fked up to try and convince them otherwise.

Obviously the person IN the relationship is the one who needs to remain faithful. But having someone WORK at trying to destroy someone's faith has got to bad karma, whatever your belief system is.

I've never cheated and I'd certainly never cheat on my girlie now. But if I knew that someone was ACTIVELY trying to get me to cheat on her... I'd be VERY pissed off.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:NYC has got a pretty good handle on what I'm saying, in fact, he's said it a lot more clearly than me! Thanks for that. smile

Put it this way. I have a GF. If any male:

1. Kissed her on the lips
2. Tried to have a one night stand with her
3. Tried to have a relationship with her
4. Flirted openly and seriously with her

Then he'd probably get

1. A talk.
2. A damn hard kick in the crotch.
3. A damn hard kick in the kidney.
4. A look, followed by one of the above if he didn't quit it.

If any of this was attempted while I *wasn't* there, I'd probably do all of the above, with some punches thrown in.

See, if someone is in a relationship (with me, or anyone else) then I think that clearly marks them as "Keep the hell off". I can't understand why anyone wouldn't think this was the case. Polygamy is fine, if both partners are aware of it, and consent. However the person who wants to sleep with/kiss one of the partners should still ask permission if they can.

(Note: Friends of one partner can still kiss on cheek, or put their arm round them, but nothing overtly "Sexual" which includes kissing on the mouth)

That's what I think shrug


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:See, now I might disagree with some of the finer details.

I think it's up to the people in the relationship to stay in the relationship. If someone cheated on me, I'd certainly place the blame MORE on the person who was in the relationship with me than the third party.

Obviously, if anything was nonconsentual or coersed, that's a different story.

I never understood the "If you try and talk to my girlfriend, I'm gonna kick your butt" philosophy. I'd hope my girlfriend would stay with me reguardless of who she spoke to. I'm kind of assuming that she KNOWS that there are other people out there and is choosing me over them.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:I've had girlfriends that flirt outragously. didn't bother me. what did was them getting crappy with me. If they didn't come home with me at the end of the night...meh! her choice...at least I knew where I stood.
I f the other person doesn't flirt back at me..I'm far less likely to continue. therefore I'm only likely to indulge with a lady IF she is up for some fun. If not, well you get the hint and carry on....in most cases. I would never aim directly at ruining a relationship.,..but wouldn't think too hard if it was already falling apart.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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psyflower
SILVER Member since Sep 2005

psyflower

Member
Location: bristol, uk

Total posts: 12
Posted:this thread is the first one i've looked at other than the intro one so i thought i'd post...
i've been in similar situations before, not knowing whether a girl is interested or not. one time my (now ex) boyfriend actually pulled a girl for me, which was nice... i didn't wanna ask her myself so he went over, chatted her up and she said she was gay, bingo! he said, its ok, see that girl over there.... and the rest is history.
theres a plan that might work! blag a male friend to do your dirty work for you! hehe..

angel


there's something you dont see everyday....

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Interesting point psyflower tongue Of course, that involves admitting this to a mutual male friend..... smile tongue

Altho that kind of situation is how my stepmom met my dad eek

Now, as to sethis and nyc - i think that mynci said it pretty well. I'm not going to go in and try to steal someone. But often you don't know. Or, when you find out, you get the picture that they want to get with you anyway.... I mean, if someone isn't responding a lot you generally don't tend to continue.... in my case unless i've been about it for awhile/ have some intention to be about it for awhile/ have some reason to belive that they're single and might be fun for a specific reason I'm generally not going to waste more than a few glances on them.....

So the situation is one where (s)he's flirting back strongly enough for me to actually stick around... somethings up with the relationship. And in general, since its likely someone I don't know, I figure if they want fun I'm up for it if i was interested in the first place. If they're going behind their partners back to do something there's only a very slender chance that I'm looking to be friends with them.... so.... *shrugs* I just don't see why i might not as well take advatage of whats offered? Its benefitting two people... maybe three...

On final analysis I think nyc is taking issue to my comment, which was meant as a general statement about unavailability and not something I was saying I'd do, rather than with my actual philosophy. I'm basically saying its something people can do (and do do!) and I don't have a big problem with it. Personally, I think its too much work for far to weird of a reward. It... it.... yeah. If they're gonna leave the other person for you they're just gonna do it, and if you try to convince them before they're ready/ if they wern't gonna do it you're gonna get bad stuff instead of good... seen it happen to a friend really....

Sethis, on the other hand, I suspect we fundamentally disagree about relationships and whats ok. But I'm hoping we can come to some kind of an agreement to disagree... Cerntainly I'm not going to be interested in the same type of people you are so that makes things easier smile biggrin


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:What, you're not interested in girls now? wink

And unless your "type" is my girlfriend, then I'm sure that's fine as well. biggrin

We agree to disagree, sure thing. See my sig. smile

(Sorry for Hi-jacking your thread!)


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:I wrote a response to this thread and then i deleted it. seems like a big can of worms to me. Personaly, I believe it is simply wrong to take advantage of another human being.

I remember what a good friend once said to me though.

she said

'I dont cheat, and I dont do cheaters.'

I always admired her for that.


Love is the law.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:Now kiss and make up....ubblol

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

dingbat6258


dingbat6258

newbie
Location: Wollongong, NSW

Total posts: 3
Posted:i once had a girl come up to me and say 'hey your really pretty can, can i kiss you', i was flattered so i just said 'yea cool go for it' it was different and i cant say i didnt like it........but...

the Vodka I was drinking may have had alot to do with it!!! beerchug
The compliment certainly worked for me, then her somewhat 'not very attractive' boyfriend asked me to come back to their place for a eeehhheemmm! aaahhhh neeeeooooowwwww!!!!


Stay away from the light

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Interesting story db6....(sorry way too many letters/numbers for me tongue)

As to not being interested in girls... Sethis, go read the first post d*mit! tongue

The first few even... where I yammer on and on about this.... about it being weird even to want to kiss a girl.... don't worry about the thread hijack tho, its been interesting, and I'm all for keeping up debate, its just I see pretty strongly that the two of us don't have a common ground on this one.... c'est la vie.

But ado, I know you avoided posting, but I do want to ask for a clarification as to what you said... You said "Personaly, I believe it is simply wrong to take advantage of another human being. "
Erm... yes... yes it is generally ... I'm wondering what you're getting at here tho... because i'm not sure where the "taking advantage" comes into play....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

ado-p
GOLD Member since May 2004

ado-p

Pirate Ninja
Location: Galway/Ireland

Total posts: 3882
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

I figure if they want fun I'm up for it if i was interested in the first place. If they're going behind their partners back to do something there's only a very slender chance that I'm looking to be friends with them.... so.... *shrugs* I just don't see why i might not as well take advatage of whats offered? Its benefitting two people... maybe three...




Right here.

Maybe im just misunderstanding but it sounds like your judging a person as being not very nice for going behind their partners back, but but your willing to hook up with them anyway?


Love is the law.

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:sounds to me that she's highlighting a flaw in the relationship more than the individual. If they are happy then they probably wouldn't do anything....
Although I agree you do run the risk of hooking up with someone not very nice, but I've done that anyway in relationships, so for 1 night who cares.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Yeah, see this is why my post said:



"Even if someone is having a rocky time in their relationship, maybe they'll work it through and have a great time together. However this isn't possible when people are constantly jumping on their partner. That kind of thing screws up even GOOD relationships."



So what Mynci and Kyrian seem to be saying is that if someone is not enjoying their relationship then it's perfectly ok to cheat on their boy/girlfriends? That doesn't make sense to me. And how will cheating on someone make *them* feel happy? Surely they'll just feel guilty, as well as providing an excuse for everyone else to talk about them?



(edit: kiss for Kyri, at the suggestion of Mynci biggrin )

EDITED_BY: Sethis (1128000264)


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:isn't that up to the individual being tempted though sethis? each person should be and is responsible FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS. yes it may result in pain to a third party but if they are willing to cheat on a S.O then surely better out of it?

see you just kissed kyri at my suggestion and you have a girlfriend (not the same but got ya) wink


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

Delete

Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I just *knew* someone was going to point that out (and FYI it was on the cheek wink )

So looking back to Adam and Eve... it was entirely Eve's fault that they both got kicked out of Eden? The snake bears no blame? Adam bears no blame? God bears no blame for setting up the damn fool situation in the first place?

I agree that everyone is responsible for their own actions, but if someone said "Hey, want to help me torture this little old lady?" then even though I say "No" then I still think that they are wrong to be doing it.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:^_^

Some of the subtelties of this just got too weird for me....

Back to ado's post, which I can actually understand....
Yup. Thats about what I said. If they are doing something their partner doesn't approve of without letting their partner know, they arn't being nice. It *might* actually be the best thing for the situation, for some odd reason, I'm not going to judge 100% without knowing the circumstances. But in general, its usually for a crap reason.
And, yes, I might still hook up with them for a kiss or a night. Its, as mynci said, their choice. I was just curious about the "taking advantage of" phrase.

On to sethis....
"So what Mynci and Kyrian seem to be saying is that if someone is not enjoying their relationship then it's perfectly ok to cheat on their boy/girlfriends?" Not what I'm saying, I'm sure its not what Mynci's saying. But what I am saying is if they're going to do it I'm ok with benefitting from it if there's benefit to be had. Its their responsibility.... not mine. What they're doing is usually bad. But again, as mynci says, if they're willing to cheat on the s.o. surely its better off being sorted earlier than later?

As far as cheating making them happy, it'd really have to depend on the person. But at the very least getting them out of a relationship they clearly wern't happy enough with might be an ok start....

As far as it screwing up good relationships, I'm still utterly confused by that. I thought we addressed "jumping on their partner" as being seperate posts ago... so If I/we missed something you'll have to clarify rather than quote.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Written by: Sethis

I just *knew* someone was going to point that out (and FYI it was on the cheek wink )

So looking back to Adam and Eve... it was entirely Eve's fault that they both got kicked out of Eden? It's Adam's fault for taking the proffered apple? The snake bears no blame? God bears no blame for setting up the damn fool situation in the first place?

I agree that everyone is responsible for their own actions, but if someone said "Hey, want to help me torture this little old lady?" then even though I say "No" then I still think that they are wrong to be doing it.



After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:you've reposted. and i feel like i addressed what you said in my post even tho I hadn't seen yours.... so now i'm confused. For the record, I think the two arn't equivalent anyway (torturing a little old lady and kissing someone with a partner when their partners not ok with it) but no-one here yet that I can see has said that cheating is right. So.... what am i supposed to be getting?

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:that adam apparently had an apple stuffed down his throat by some troublesome eve creature quite against his will

and none of this would have happened if he had clearly marked her as His in indelible pen rather than crayon

or am I oversimplifying?


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since May 2005

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Sorry, I hit "Quote" instead of "Edit" and didn't realise.

Basically, if someone does something bad, then you're just as bad to knowingly help/profit from it.

Say a friend robbed a bank, and because he/she liked you, they decided to give you some of the money. IMO it isn't morally justified to take that money.

So, in this situation we're discussing, cheating is bad. You're helping them to cheat by giving them a willing partner. Therefore you are, IMO, morally wrong. Is that a bit clearer?

Written by: Kyrian

As far as it screwing up good relationships, I'm still utterly confused by that. I thought we addressed "jumping on their partner" as being seperate posts ago...




Sorry, my point was that you seemed to be making a distinction something like this:

"If someone is in a relationship that they are NOT happy in, then it's ok to sleep with them"

compared to:

"If someone is in a happy relationship, then it's NOT ok to sleep with them"

That's the impression I get anyway. So, what I meant was, people occasionally argue in their relationships. Sometimes seriously. However, just because you're arguing doesn't mean that it's suddenly ok to sleep around. That would end the relationship, when you might easily work the argument out and spend a few happy years (or whatever) together.

Now if someone was in an abusive relationship, or was utterly convinced that they were going to break up (and they were coming on to me) *then* I would be obliged to say something like: "Can we wait until you've actually broken up please?"

Sorry about the double posting. redface


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Delete

NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Molly

that adam apparently had an apple stuffed down his throat by some troublesome eve creature quite against his will

and none of this would have happened if he had clearly marked her as His in indelible pen rather than crayon

or am I oversimplifying?



confused

Hee hee... Record the date... it's the first time ever of ME not understanding YOUR sarcasm. wink

hug


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

Delete

Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:that's fine dear
my brain has been addled by data mining frown hiho indeed.

I think I was still irked by Sethis' comment from a page or two back saying that havign a relationship "marked" your partner as yours.

Don't like the mental imagery - even if it does involve coloured pens smile


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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Wow, I totally missed the coloured pens bit... or did you just write that in now? My brain's a bit addled from the 3 page post I just made in social discussion...

the "marked as yours" bit bugged me too, hence I figured sethis and I would never agree. (that and a few other details which struck me as too strong).

But- What I'm saying is this, I'll try and oversimplify:

If you choose knowingly do something your partner has stated they are not ok with, regardless of what said thing is, and won't let them know/talk it over with them/give them a chance to break up with you or whatever first than you are in a fashion regardless of what happens breaking their trust. And, generally thats bad.

I don't belive in third party guilt for this situation. The guys you're going bowling with want to go bowling and they have fun with you? You chose to go. You enjoy the extra beer out with your friends? Should they have all walked away form you because you said you'd be home at 10? You enjoy the kiss? They offered it. Actively helping someone rob a bank- yeah still a crime. Actively trying to pick up someone you know is in a relationship that doesn't allow that? Yeah, thats definetly a possible moral failing, you're likely making them uncomfortable. But I'm never going to blame someone for taking what was offered and getting their benefit out of the situation- they're not the ones that wern't supposed to be sleeping around. In my case, even if it was my best friend. You can decide for yourself of course if that constitutes your friend betraying a seperate trust agreement with you... but the third party, in general has no beholdence.

And its not the act of sleeping with someone in a relationship I'm condeming. I'm condeming breaking your partners trust (over anything) and I'm condemning hitting on people who don't want to be hit on (regardless if they're in a relationship). Thats all. More clear?


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Dr_Molly


Dr_Molly

Pooh-Bah
Location: Away from home

Total posts: 2354
Posted:If you were going to mark someone wouldn't you do it with coloured pens? confused wink

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Kyrian


Dreamer
Location: York, England

Total posts: 4308
Posted:Ha. biggrin me and my addled brain.... of course, is black a colour wink

I'd like silver, actually.....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

Delete

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