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SeGee
SILVER Member since Sep 2005

newbie
Location: , Sweden

Total posts: 12
Posted:Hello, Im new to poi and havea few questions that confused me on this forum. What are "Beats?" I can do weave forward and backwards. Now, no idea how many beats it is.



I would also like to have some help with finding more guides about poi tricks apart from the ones that "Home of poi" offers. Maybe also some page with tips on how to move from one trick to the next in a smooth motion.



thanks





EDIT: Could someone experienced maybe also write up a timeline on how long it took to be noob-good. to start with fire etc. thanks

EDITED_BY: SeGee (1126891267)


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I'll be nice.. before someone jumps in here and yells at you for not searching.. (though I really think its funny.. when you go to a library or a video store and ask someone for something they dont yell at you to search.. but they also get paid no to yell 'search' at you.)

anyway..
beats are a lovely term to teach people how be confused about poi for extended periods of time.. beats come in different variety.. poi beats.. the circles made by the poi.. and move beats.. move beats are the only ones that are confusing because move beats come with a nifty mathematical formula.. (number of poi beats total)/2
why? because it seemed like a good idea at the time, I suppose... now it focuses more on arm circles than poi beats I guess....bu dont worry about that.. by the time you get to working on that stuff beats wont amtter anymore anyway.. wink

how many beats is your weave.. well if you are spinning forward.. how many times do the poi cross the top of a circle on each side? it can be akward at times..

there are more tricks here than you will find anywhere.. they are all over this forum.. not in the video/tutorial, begginger guide.. or whatever it is that they link to.. there's also spherculism.com...

tip on how to move between tricks... simple enough.. stop thinking about tricks.. all the patterns you learn are ways that are moving the poi between positions.. when you think tricks you think of these little chunks that are empty in between.. when the tricks themselves are the filler that goes between.. not the presentation.. if you cant break yourself of thinking tricks then you must take on the incredible task of learning all the tricks made from moving between tricks.. lol... personally I think you are better off just knowing that the weave gets you from point a to point b.. its not a cool trick.. and it only repeats to help you learn it.. not because it looks cool.. hehe..


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Rev

(though I really think its funny.. when you go to a library or a video store and ask someone for something they dont yell at you to search.. but they also get paid no to yell 'search' at you.)



ubblol

Yeah, try and walk into Borders and go up to a customer and ask them to help you find a book... see what kind of reaction you get. wink


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Yes, let's go.
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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:The weave was a cool trick when you first learned it, right?

Don't most people learn the tricks first, then figure out ways to put them together ? In my experience they do. Personally I like to confuse newbies with planes and turning first,,,then scare them with "there are no moves" once they've figured out how poi behave.

My favourite description of beats has to be---- the number of times the poi go woosh


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:I'm saying that the moving between tricks.. is all the tricks are.. its not that there are no moves.. its the moves themselves that are the parts in between... I'm just saying that its thinking backwards.. what they are really trying to learn is not the parts in between the tricks.. but the tricks themselves.. whihc is the big showy presentation..

and no I never thought the weave was a cool move.. smile


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Chudway
BRONZE Member since Aug 2005

Chudway

Member
Location: Richmond VA, USA

Total posts: 6
Posted:good call ... the number of times the poi go whoosh. Thats definitely one of the perks of fire poi.

Fast bikes, danger, fire, and knives!

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:You didn't think it was cool when you first cracked the weave? too bad you missed out on one of life's little moments. After all the tangeled chains, and poi in the nuts, you never felt a twinge of hey,,,I got it,,,yippee. Or were you one of these gifted naturals who figured it out in 15 minutes?

Are you approaching this moves and transitions thing from a create the whole, right from the start perspective, rather than an assemble the whole from a series of parts perspective?

I'm an assemble from parts kinda guy. I need to know my weave, and know my butterfly before I can work on the little part that lets me alternate between the two. The result ends up the same whether its a weave-transition-butterfly, or a combo presented as a whole


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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:and as for 'when to do fire', it's up to you. There is no 'you must do fire by this time in your spinning career'. I hardly ever used to spin fire. I prefer spinning without, simply because i find I can do more when not thinking about 'hang on, if I mess up badly, this stuff's hot'.

But at the same time, make sure you know what you're doing. As long as you feel you are able to do your 'tricks', as you say, proficiently enough to not screw up, and if you feel ready for it, spin some fire. you don't wanna try something you can't do very well, only to screw up, tangle, and burn yourself.


Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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animatEd
BRONZE Member since Aug 2004

animatEd

1 + 1 = 3
Location: Bristol UK

Total posts: 3540
Posted:Oh, and searches are much loved by all on these forums. smile They normally yeild more results than you expected.

Empty your mind. Be formless, Shapeless, like Water.
Put Water into a cup, it becomes the cup, put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle, put water into a teapot, it becomes the teapot.
Water can flow, or it can Crash.
Be Water My Friend.

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SeGee
SILVER Member since Sep 2005

newbie
Location: , Sweden

Total posts: 12
Posted:thanks for the responses :P learned lots.

Ill try searching better next time


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:Written by: stout

. Or were you one of these gifted naturals who figured it out in 15 minutes?




unfortunately I was.. I figured out all my girls moves while she as shaving her legs.. but its nothow quick you pick things up.. tere are some things that were just blocked for me.. I couldnt learn a ttn until way later when I learned the 4bt ttn.. shrug

and I'm not saying build the whole thing from the beginning.. I'm saying try to think of things in a way that's more helpful to the situation.. I argue that poi moves are in themselves tricks.. they are patterns we use to teach people ways to move the poi.. the weave teaches us how to change planes.. butterfly stuff teaches opposite direction.. and so forth.. each move has little components that most of us take for granted.. but its those components that we are training ourselves on nonetheless.. not the pattern as a 'trick'... and so the question how do I learn to spin between tricks makes no sense.. because the 'tricks' are built from our understanding of how to move with the poi.. how many moves do you spin that invove a 2bt weave but it isnt a weave.. reels for instance.. and crossers.. etc and so forth.. what do 5bt moves have in common.. they all have the same degree of twisting involved.. they are just applied to other patterns..

I'm not sayingt my view is for everyone.. I'm just saying it helps to know that the patterns you are learning arent the tricks.., the tricks are what you build from skills you learn from those moves..


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Suibom


Suibom

addict
Location: Oregon, USA

Total posts: 577
Posted:Written by: Rev

and I'm not saying build the whole thing from the beginning.. I'm saying try to think of things in a way that's more helpful to the situation.. I argue that poi moves are in themselves tricks.. they are patterns we use to teach people ways to move the poi.. the weave teaches us how to change planes.. butterfly stuff teaches opposite direction.. and so forth.. each move has little components that most of us take for granted.. but its those components that we are training ourselves on nonetheless.. not the pattern as a 'trick'... and so the question how do I learn to spin between tricks makes no sense.. because the 'tricks' are built from our understanding of how to move with the poi.. how many moves do you spin that invove a 2bt weave but it isnt a weave.. reels for instance.. and crossers.. etc and so forth.. what do 5bt moves have in common.. they all have the same degree of twisting involved.. they are just applied to other patterns..

I'm not sayingt my view is for everyone.. I'm just saying it helps to know that the patterns you are learning arent the tricks.., the tricks are what you build from skills you learn from those moves..



Beautifully stated... I think it's viewing the moves in that fashion that is helping me progress as quickly as I am in certain movements, though it was more subconcious until I read your statement above. I still drill the "trick" first, then figure out flow later. I think getting new folks to understand spinning in the way you describe it could be a huge helper... At least, I'll be using that if I ever teach any one.

smile


Definition of poi- A Hawaiian food made from the tuber of the taro that is cooked, pounded to a paste, and fermented.

Ahnold discussing poi - "It is naht a toober!"

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:It's not an unfortunate thing to be a natural, think of all the time , frustration, and poi to the nuts you saved yourself, sez me whos on day 2 of playing with a meteor.

I agree with the idea of breaking a move down into its component planes and that's why I'm a fan of the one poi method when it comes to exploring planes. I found it more satisfying to learn, say, flowers, by making full circles with my arm straight, and concentrating on not letting my planes go all wonky when I got to unfamiliar territory.

it's an easy subject to discuss with someone in person, but I find it difficult in this text format. When someone asks how do I go.... from one move to the other, it's easier to just something like " try this transition, or this" than to type text explaining how the poi behave.

I've tried this, and usually end up confusing myself when I reread what I typed, delete

I sure wish I had started with this concept, and I'm sure applying it now with the meteor.

Incidentally, I've been using the terms trick,move, and pattern interchangeably, there's a difference?


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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:well see I think of it like this.. and maybe this is just me playing semantic games.. but trick to me carries the connotation that the pattern you are doing is intended to be the awe inspiring or jawdropping piece in and of itself.. get yourself a few cool tricks and you can amaze people.. whereas in my opinion that's not what the trick is at all.. to me the trick goes beyond just the pattern... some people call it flow.. I'm not sure I really want to go that far.. because imo people that do tricks.. need to learn to flow.. because you can see where the tricks start and stop.. its trick a, trick b trick c, blah blah blah.. whereas for me, the trick is when you do something and they can't follow.. they dont see the move.. they just get lost in the pattern and the tricks become the things that emerge from that pattern.. they follow, they follow, then bam.. where'd that come from.. which is hopefully why you can see where this is a bit different from flow... most times its the transition itself that is the trick..



flow for me, is being able to spin without breaking.. its getting all your patterns together so that they seem like one seemless pattern.. this is how you get the tricks to work.. because if people don't buy that its all one pattern, then the trick has no real effect.. (or at least not near the value it should.. ) flow isnt what you do between moves to make it nicer.. flow is being able to use your moves.. its being comfortable with your poi.. flow goes beyond just transittions, because when you layer patterns, how can really point and sa this is where one begins and one ends.. I know there are times where I use one pattern as an overarching pattern through whihc I can transition between two other patterns.. and so there's no clear cut distinction.. its a bit hard to describe what I'm going for here..



move and pattern I use often in place of eachother.. I like pattern better becauseit conveys this sense of it as a guideline.. something you use for an outline to set up the area in whihc you have free play.. move on the other hand I like because even though it has the same 'trick' connotation' it focuses on the fact that these are ways to move.. these teach you how to move.. so then you cna get that free play..





but breaking the moves down into their respective components, helps you learn really quick.. that's how I got as far as I have.. its being able to break a move down into its characteristic parts.. whihc helps you see what you kno that will help with transfer and it also lets you know what components you are missing (so that you can maybe learn some other move that has it and transfer that knowledge to the one you are having problems with.. )


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"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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Stout
SILVER Member since May 2004

Stout

Pooh-Bah
Location: Canada

Total posts: 1872
Posted:It took some thinking, but I think I understand your definition of tricks, and it's a distinction I never thought of before. I like the term move to describe just that, the move. What you do with your hands, where the poi spin, the number of beats etc.

I use the term pattern to describe the shapes the poi make in the air, I know they're all circles but a good for instance is the fountain, it makes a big pattern of smaller circles.

And flow,that's what I've interpreted as moving from one move ( or portion thereof ) to the next ,without having my spinning look like it's a series of parts assembled into a whole. I find flow alot easier to deal with when doing performance based spinning, it's just when I try to be mr. complicated and work within the there are no moves framework that flow becomes more of a challenge.


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NYC


NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA

Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Rev

and no I never thought the weave was a cool move.. smile



You're clearly not doing it fast enough. wink

And be careful with the beats = "Wooshes" theory. Any split-time move will have twice as many 'whooshes' as it's parallel brother.

Also more difficult to distinguish in heavy wind. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Rev
BRONZE Member since Mar 2003

Rev

Bastard Newbie Messiah
Location: Apparently lost in my ego, USA

Total posts: 1269
Posted:damnit... I knew I was doing something wrong.. everyone elses was looking soo much cooler than mine.. thanks NYC.. wink

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Confusing the masses, one post at a time...
"Obviously, you're not a golfer.."- The Dude
"Buy the ticket... Take the ride..." -Raoul Duke
"FEMA has never done catastrophe planning..."-Michael Brown

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