Forums > Social Discussion > Bush *FINALLY* does the right thing
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HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
He took responsibility and apologized.
Amazing.
This is one thing my father hammered into me again and again and again and again and again and *AGAIN!* When you f*ck up, have the gonads to stand up and say "I f*cked up," and take responsibility for it.
And it has not ceased to amaze me how this administration, perhaps more than others, has failed again and again and again to stand up and admit its mistakes. And so Bush backpedals and sweeps things under the cover.
I would have *so* much more respect for the man if he would just say "I was wrong about the WMD's." It's just absurd how politicians can't 'fess up.
And *FINALLY* he's realized that sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and admit you did something wrong. And that when you do, people will respect you for it.
He took responsibility and apologized.
Amazing.
This is one thing my father hammered into me again and again and again and again and again and *AGAIN!* When you f*ck up, have the gonads to stand up and say "I f*cked up," and take responsibility for it.
And it has not ceased to amaze me how this administration, perhaps more than others, has failed again and again and again to stand up and admit its mistakes. And so Bush backpedals and sweeps things under the cover.
I would have *so* much more respect for the man if he would just say "I was wrong about the WMD's." It's just absurd how politicians can't 'fess up.
And *FINALLY* he's realized that sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and admit you did something wrong. And that when you do, people will respect you for it.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
Wait...did you actually read that entire article? I just did. He also put blame off on other areas, and apologized for a relatively small portion of what went wrong and didn't even comment on the fact that he praised Brown (the head of FEMA until he was forced to resign on Monday) last week for a job well done.
I don't think a statement issued under pressure of reporters that is conditional and back handed qualifies as taking responsibility, and it sure as hell wasn't sincere.
If this was released, oh I dunno, two days after the flood, voluntarily, then I would have believed it. Not two weeks after at a set-up press conference.
Sorry but none of us here buy it at all.
Wait...did you actually read that entire article? I just did. He also put blame off on other areas, and apologized for a relatively small portion of what went wrong and didn't even comment on the fact that he praised Brown (the head of FEMA until he was forced to resign on Monday) last week for a job well done.
I don't think a statement issued under pressure of reporters that is conditional and back handed qualifies as taking responsibility, and it sure as hell wasn't sincere.
If this was released, oh I dunno, two days after the flood, voluntarily, then I would have believed it. Not two weeks after at a set-up press conference.
Sorry but none of us here buy it at all.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
SILVER Member
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
Posted:
Agreec Pele...if it was of his own admission I might actually believe it but seriously the only reason he released that apology was because he was told he should!
Agreec Pele...if it was of his own admission I might actually believe it but seriously the only reason he released that apology was because he was told he should!
GOLD Member
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
HOP Mad Doctor
13,925 posts
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted:
Oh, I'm sure he did. And I'm hardly accusing the man of being an Eagle Scout.
But an ADMISSION from the Bush administration? This is unprecedented.
Oh, I'm sure he did. And I'm hardly accusing the man of being an Eagle Scout.
But an ADMISSION from the Bush administration? This is unprecedented.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
SILVER Member
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
veteran
1,433 posts
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Perth, Australia
Posted:
They only admitted to it because they realised how peed off the general public was and they figured it would raise their popularity.
They only admitted to it because they realised how peed off the general public was and they figured it would raise their popularity.
GOLD Member
now available in "advanced"
6,086 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
now available in "advanced"
6,086 posts
Location: Cornwall, United Kingdom
Posted:
Damn, and there was me hoping you were going to tell me that he had resigned!
Oh well, its a step in the right direction I guess!
Damn, and there was me hoping you were going to tell me that he had resigned!
Oh well, its a step in the right direction I guess!
My state of mind is not yours to define!
There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
member
145 posts
Location: Little Rock, AR
145 posts
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posted:
Oh, there he goes - taking blame for an act of nature! Taking blame for something that no other president has done, either. Were any Americans well protected or safe from any other hurricane because some ofther president was in office? Oh, sure - there was that nationwide evacuation plan that he decided to scrap when he first came into office.
How can it be his fault if he's taken the same position as every other president? It would have been exactly the same if Kerry was president, or anyone else, for that fact. Let's blame it on eveyrone, he started it all. The whole BS about how the president is suppose to be for the people, by the people. Ooh, I konw - let's not blame anyone, for once.
Rediculous, he's not in any possition to apologize, he's just the president, he's just a man in over his head. What does he think, that he's god?
He's just a man in charge of a country, nothing more. And like all other men he has problems and bad luck, too. Because the world would be such a different, special place if he wasn't in office - whatever! It would be exactly the same. Our little spiff in Iraq isn't really putting anyone out of their homes except the people over there fighting.
So sorry for that - it's late, I'm grumpy, maybe I should get to bed.
Oh, there he goes - taking blame for an act of nature! Taking blame for something that no other president has done, either. Were any Americans well protected or safe from any other hurricane because some ofther president was in office? Oh, sure - there was that nationwide evacuation plan that he decided to scrap when he first came into office.
How can it be his fault if he's taken the same position as every other president? It would have been exactly the same if Kerry was president, or anyone else, for that fact. Let's blame it on eveyrone, he started it all. The whole BS about how the president is suppose to be for the people, by the people. Ooh, I konw - let's not blame anyone, for once.Rediculous, he's not in any possition to apologize, he's just the president, he's just a man in over his head. What does he think, that he's god?
He's just a man in charge of a country, nothing more. And like all other men he has problems and bad luck, too. Because the world would be such a different, special place if he wasn't in office - whatever! It would be exactly the same. Our little spiff in Iraq isn't really putting anyone out of their homes except the people over there fighting.
So sorry for that - it's late, I'm grumpy, maybe I should get to bed.
"I'm your Huckleberry."
The muse spake her thought and then there was silence. Thy spiked tongue had melted, only a bitter heart remained.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Pooh-Bah
1,762 posts
Location: York University, United Kingdom
Posted:
"Our little spiff"? Hello? What about the 24-27,000+ dead Iraqi civilians? You reckon that maybe they're a bit upset? I'm fairly confident that the people in Fallujah have been put out of their homes, just before thay were razed to the ground.
Same goes for Blair, he just refuses to apologise for any of his mistakes. So many more people might like him if he did so.
I think the reason why they don't apologise is that you're not supposed to make mistakes when you're in charge of a country. You're supposed to be superhuman. Load of cobblers, but that's the image they're trying to project. However it just ends up costing them respect, when they appear to be too stubborn to admit they were wrong.
Written by: Julie2022
Our little spiff in Iraq isn't really putting anyone out of their homes except the people over there fighting.
"Our little spiff"? Hello? What about the 24-27,000+ dead Iraqi civilians? You reckon that maybe they're a bit upset? I'm fairly confident that the people in Fallujah have been put out of their homes, just before thay were razed to the ground.
Same goes for Blair, he just refuses to apologise for any of his mistakes. So many more people might like him if he did so.
I think the reason why they don't apologise is that you're not supposed to make mistakes when you're in charge of a country. You're supposed to be superhuman. Load of cobblers, but that's the image they're trying to project. However it just ends up costing them respect, when they appear to be too stubborn to admit they were wrong.
After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
julie its not so much the hurricane that he should appologise for but the general mess that was the clean up opperation
the levee's around NO were in despirate need of repair and upgrades - they'd been warned that the city wasnt properly protected against this sort of thing for about 2 or 3 years but the spending on its proteection was cut
the person put in charge of the FEMA had no knowledge of emergancy organisation.
he visited NO - ok fair enough - but in doing so all air rescue etc had to be stopped..
he should be appologising but its too late now - normally im not too bothered about bush but in this case he fessed up.. big time.. not for the hurricane but for the mess
while the hurricane could of hit at any time they know that this sort of hurricane hits that bit of coast every so often - so there should be good preparations made - and there werent
julie its not so much the hurricane that he should appologise for but the general mess that was the clean up opperation
the levee's around NO were in despirate need of repair and upgrades - they'd been warned that the city wasnt properly protected against this sort of thing for about 2 or 3 years but the spending on its proteection was cut
the person put in charge of the FEMA had no knowledge of emergancy organisation.
he visited NO - ok fair enough - but in doing so all air rescue etc had to be stopped..
he should be appologising but its too late now - normally im not too bothered about bush but in this case he fessed up.. big time.. not for the hurricane but for the mess
while the hurricane could of hit at any time they know that this sort of hurricane hits that bit of coast every so often - so there should be good preparations made - and there werent
back
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
*Takes a calm breath*
Julie, noboby is blaming Bush for blowing down the houses in New Orleans.
There have been sharp critiques on the timeliness of the federal response to the hurricane. (I can't believe I'm explaing this.) The local authorities were told to prepare for a natural disaster and have 48 hours worth of supplies before the federal governement steped in... unfortunately, it took the federal government 5 days to act leaving 3 days of unanticipated suffering. One of the main arguements was that Bush appointed an incompitent buddy to run the show and he has since resigned due to his inaction.
Pretty much everybody in America, including Bush, agrees with this.
Do they have TV where you live?
(Well, I couldn't go the WHOLE post without being sarcastic
)
Written by: Julie2022
Oh, there he goes - taking blame for an act of nature!
*Takes a calm breath*
Julie, noboby is blaming Bush for blowing down the houses in New Orleans.
There have been sharp critiques on the timeliness of the federal response to the hurricane. (I can't believe I'm explaing this.) The local authorities were told to prepare for a natural disaster and have 48 hours worth of supplies before the federal governement steped in... unfortunately, it took the federal government 5 days to act leaving 3 days of unanticipated suffering. One of the main arguements was that Bush appointed an incompitent buddy to run the show and he has since resigned due to his inaction.
Pretty much everybody in America, including Bush, agrees with this.
Do they have TV where you live?
(Well, I couldn't go the WHOLE post without being sarcastic
) Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
member
145 posts
Location: Little Rock, AR
145 posts
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posted:
LOL! oops - My whole post was full of bitter sarcasm, some of it didn't come out right, especially my comment about the war being a little spiff - I know it's not a little spiff. That was my point - there are so many other things which deserve his admittance and apologes and attempts to make it right, too - My sarcastic bitterness here--> Go figured he'd put himself on a God-like pedistal and accept failure in this situation related to a natural disaster while ignoring his bad judgement and failure in other situations of his own hands-on doings...
I often feel that he sees himself as more than a regular old bloke - that he possibly sees himself as this mighty know-it-all when he really doesn't know anything.
I really need to avoid sarcasm unless I state "I'm being sarcastic"
It was late, I was tired...
Ok, so re-read my post and take all my comments to be sarcastic and bitter and right along with Doc Lightening's views, See, now does it makes a bit more sense?
LOL! oops - My whole post was full of bitter sarcasm, some of it didn't come out right, especially my comment about the war being a little spiff - I know it's not a little spiff. That was my point - there are so many other things which deserve his admittance and apologes and attempts to make it right, too - My sarcastic bitterness here--> Go figured he'd put himself on a God-like pedistal and accept failure in this situation related to a natural disaster while ignoring his bad judgement and failure in other situations of his own hands-on doings...
I often feel that he sees himself as more than a regular old bloke - that he possibly sees himself as this mighty know-it-all when he really doesn't know anything.
I really need to avoid sarcasm unless I state "I'm being sarcastic"
It was late, I was tired...
Ok, so re-read my post and take all my comments to be sarcastic and bitter and right along with Doc Lightening's views, See, now does it makes a bit more sense? "I'm your Huckleberry."
The muse spake her thought and then there was silence. Thy spiked tongue had melted, only a bitter heart remained.
Diamond In The Rough
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
459 posts
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posted:
It's not the response people should be angry at, it's the shortsightedness of preparation. Bush appointed at least 15 people with no relevant experience in many different areas of the government. The head of FEMA, for example, had no experience in emergency management, he was Bush's Presidential campagin manager. Cronyism can only go so far before the buddy you put in office actually has to do his job.
It's not the response people should be angry at, it's the shortsightedness of preparation. Bush appointed at least 15 people with no relevant experience in many different areas of the government. The head of FEMA, for example, had no experience in emergency management, he was Bush's Presidential campagin manager. Cronyism can only go so far before the buddy you put in office actually has to do his job.
Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.
Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.
GOLD Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Carpal \'Tunnel
6,942 posts
Location: London, UK
Posted:
julie now what you say makes more sence lol
julie now what you say makes more sence
lol back
member
145 posts
Location: Little Rock, AR
145 posts
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posted:
Lol! See, I'm not so bad afterall
Lol! See, I'm not so bad afterall
"I'm your Huckleberry."
The muse spake her thought and then there was silence. Thy spiked tongue had melted, only a bitter heart remained.
SILVER Member
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Carpal \'Tunnel
2,666 posts
Location: Preston, United Kingdom
Posted:
I dont like all the scape goating that goes on after katrina hit america. First of all Bush runs the country. He does things differently, he signs papers, talks to people in meetings and on telephones, and does lots of paper work and stuff. thats how countrys are run these days
All of this goes on behind closed doors so how does america know Bush 'wasnt helping as much as he could' ok he didnt go out to the affected areas much, but hell I wouldnt do that. All it takes is one slack jawed yocal to pull out a rifal and shoot a cap in his ass from a distance and its all over.
Im surprised that hasnt happend allready theres been loads of dumbasses shooting at the releife coming in, they try to help them and they think its a good idea to start gun fights.
I kept out of the whole story to be honest, I dont bother with news anymore and I dont know much about what happend, but I did hear alot of people hitting Bush and it cant all justified im sure, ide love to turn around to them and ask them what would they do in his situation? They wouldnt have a clue.
Im not saying he didnt make some mistakes, but really the man isnt a god, human arror happens. I just wanna hear some people praising the guy for all that he did do right, but thats gonna get engored probably. Its a shame.
I dont like all the scape goating that goes on after katrina hit america. First of all Bush runs the country. He does things differently, he signs papers, talks to people in meetings and on telephones, and does lots of paper work and stuff. thats how countrys are run these days
All of this goes on behind closed doors so how does america know Bush 'wasnt helping as much as he could' ok he didnt go out to the affected areas much, but hell I wouldnt do that. All it takes is one slack jawed yocal to pull out a rifal and shoot a cap in his ass from a distance and its all over.
Im surprised that hasnt happend allready theres been loads of dumbasses shooting at the releife coming in, they try to help them and they think its a good idea to start gun fights.
I kept out of the whole story to be honest, I dont bother with news anymore and I dont know much about what happend, but I did hear alot of people hitting Bush and it cant all justified im sure, ide love to turn around to them and ask them what would they do in his situation? They wouldnt have a clue.
Im not saying he didnt make some mistakes, but really the man isnt a god, human arror happens. I just wanna hear some people praising the guy for all that he did do right, but thats gonna get engored probably. Its a shame.
Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat
'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?
Check ya later
500 posts
Location: Lower Shaw Farm
500 posts
Location: Lower Shaw Farm
Posted:
to be honest, i dont give a damn whether or not he apologises to ´his´people for his mistakes, i dont think that will sort out wars, floods, ecology, diseases, economy, terrorism, or even personal grudges. i think its alright to say ´everybody makes mistakes´ but only up to a certain point. Since the bush administration has been in power, they have taken it too far. i agree that it is nice if people apologise, but i think its more important to put money and time into sorting the country and the world out, rather than for press conferences to apologise for things that have already happened. It would be nice if Bush went to iraq and said sorry to the iraqis but it would be better if he sorted their country out.
to be honest, i dont give a damn whether or not he apologises to ´his´people for his mistakes, i dont think that will sort out wars, floods, ecology, diseases, economy, terrorism, or even personal grudges. i think its alright to say ´everybody makes mistakes´ but only up to a certain point. Since the bush administration has been in power, they have taken it too far. i agree that it is nice if people apologise, but i think its more important to put money and time into sorting the country and the world out, rather than for press conferences to apologise for things that have already happened. It would be nice if Bush went to iraq and said sorry to the iraqis but it would be better if he sorted their country out.
Jake the Juggler
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
For the president to make any suggestion that they messed up indicates to me that they are very very concerned about losing power and votes.
This must be extremely serious.
People of america the bush administration is NOT on YOUR side, wake up, they have stolen $11 trillion dollars of your money, they don't give a damn if you live or die.
How many times does history have to repeat itself for the western world to realise that we've been conned. The reson there's a war in iraq is because we want there to be a war in iraq, it's very profitable to have a war in iraq, the american economy is screwed. It's just a way for them to suck money out of your pockets and into their own.
rant over
The apology doesn't make any real difference, it just helps soften the blow come the next election. I think they are concerned that this could kick start a few decades of democrat leadership.
The thing i find most strange tho is that if I were John Kerry i'd be down in New Orleans sorting stuff out, he still has a lot of money and influence. Makes me think that he'd be little better.
But damn, the republicans are some evil nazi mother *bleepers*. I mean whatever your parents vote, whatever your state votes, whatever you do just don't be fooled by them, they really don't give a toss about you.
For the president to make any suggestion that they messed up indicates to me that they are very very concerned about losing power and votes.
This must be extremely serious.
People of america the bush administration is NOT on YOUR side, wake up, they have stolen $11 trillion dollars of your money, they don't give a damn if you live or die.
How many times does history have to repeat itself for the western world to realise that we've been conned. The reson there's a war in iraq is because we want there to be a war in iraq, it's very profitable to have a war in iraq, the american economy is screwed. It's just a way for them to suck money out of your pockets and into their own.
rant over
The apology doesn't make any real difference, it just helps soften the blow come the next election. I think they are concerned that this could kick start a few decades of democrat leadership.
The thing i find most strange tho is that if I were John Kerry i'd be down in New Orleans sorting stuff out, he still has a lot of money and influence. Makes me think that he'd be little better.
But damn, the republicans are some evil nazi mother *bleepers*. I mean whatever your parents vote, whatever your state votes, whatever you do just don't be fooled by them, they really don't give a toss about you.
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
BRONZE Member
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
the henna lady
6,193 posts
Location: WNY, USA
Posted:
What exactly did he do right?
He started a war that this country fiscally can not support.
When he did that, he absorbed our biggest defence against disaster, FEMA, into a new department and cut or pushed out most of their staff, including putting a LAWYER, someone who has *never* dealt with an emergency situation, in the lead position.
In doing that, states who have looked to the federal government for guidance and support have been left to their own devices.
...and this was all years before Katrina hit. He screwed up the Gulf Coast long before Katrina ever came along.
And when the weather forecasts were coming in for an evacuation, and he should have been working with FEMA and area leaders to figure out a pre-emptive plan of attack, just in case, he was on yet *another* vacation funded by our taxes.
Now, the Mayor of NO is coming under investigation because they were granted something like $2-3 million to strengthen up the levees...and it was not done to the degree they could have been. So where did the rest of the money go? No one knows.
BUT... a proper course of action, and a quicker response would have saved alot of people, alot of money and alot of these headaches.
And that was not in place because of the GIANORMOUS mistakes Bush has made throughout his entire reign as President.
So please, humor me Joe, what did he do right?
And btw, sending the National Guard in *before* the storm to reinforce the levee and to help evacuate the city (as was requested), having medical teams, search teams and back-up supplies lined-up should they be needed, and organizing for an out of area evacuee center-with transport- for last minute aid stations should have been done two days in advance, when the evacuation notice went out...but it wasn't. I would have contacted the "clean-up" company and started negotiating the terms of a contract (since that was one of the thing recently screwed up and left for Louisianna to figure out on their own, while they are hoping they might be able to get federal reimbursement for something FEMA was supposed to do anyway). That's what I would have done, and probably more. That's what FEMA *was* for.
Written by: Brit_Joe
I dont like all the scape goating that goes on after katrina hit america. First of all Bush runs the country. He does things differently, he signs papers, talks to people in meetings and on telephones, and does lots of paper work and stuff. thats how countrys are run these days
All of this goes on behind closed doors so how does america know Bush 'wasnt helping as much as he could' ok he didnt go out to the affected areas much, but hell I wouldnt do that. All it takes is one slack jawed yocal to pull out a rifal and shoot a cap in his ass from a distance and its all over.
Im surprised that hasnt happend allready theres been loads of dumbasses shooting at the releife coming in, they try to help them and they think its a good idea to start gun fights.
I kept out of the whole story to be honest, I dont bother with news anymore and I dont know much about what happend, but I did hear alot of people hitting Bush and it cant all justified im sure, ide love to turn around to them and ask them what would they do in his situation? They wouldnt have a clue.
Im not saying he didnt make some mistakes, but really the man isnt a god, human arror happens. I just wanna hear some people praising the guy for all that he did do right, but thats gonna get engored probably. Its a shame.
What exactly did he do right?
He started a war that this country fiscally can not support.
When he did that, he absorbed our biggest defence against disaster, FEMA, into a new department and cut or pushed out most of their staff, including putting a LAWYER, someone who has *never* dealt with an emergency situation, in the lead position.
In doing that, states who have looked to the federal government for guidance and support have been left to their own devices.
...and this was all years before Katrina hit. He screwed up the Gulf Coast long before Katrina ever came along.
And when the weather forecasts were coming in for an evacuation, and he should have been working with FEMA and area leaders to figure out a pre-emptive plan of attack, just in case, he was on yet *another* vacation funded by our taxes.
Now, the Mayor of NO is coming under investigation because they were granted something like $2-3 million to strengthen up the levees...and it was not done to the degree they could have been. So where did the rest of the money go? No one knows.
BUT... a proper course of action, and a quicker response would have saved alot of people, alot of money and alot of these headaches.
And that was not in place because of the GIANORMOUS mistakes Bush has made throughout his entire reign as President.
So please, humor me Joe, what did he do right?
And btw, sending the National Guard in *before* the storm to reinforce the levee and to help evacuate the city (as was requested), having medical teams, search teams and back-up supplies lined-up should they be needed, and organizing for an out of area evacuee center-with transport- for last minute aid stations should have been done two days in advance, when the evacuation notice went out...but it wasn't. I would have contacted the "clean-up" company and started negotiating the terms of a contract (since that was one of the thing recently screwed up and left for Louisianna to figure out on their own, while they are hoping they might be able to get federal reimbursement for something FEMA was supposed to do anyway). That's what I would have done, and probably more. That's what FEMA *was* for.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
*** This just in. ***
In light of the president's admission of responsibility the 'independant investigation' into the government has been scrapped.
There would have been a long, drawn out, '9/11' type comittee investigation specifically placing blame... instead he gets away with a 'MY BAD'.
Heard that on the radio and I thought you'd get a laugh, Lightning.
*** This just in. ***
In light of the president's admission of responsibility the 'independant investigation' into the government has been scrapped.
There would have been a long, drawn out, '9/11' type comittee investigation specifically placing blame... instead he gets away with a 'MY BAD'.
Heard that on the radio and I thought you'd get a laugh, Lightning.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
GOLD Member
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
old hand
920 posts
Location: New Zealand
Posted:
NO BLEEPING WAY THAT'S BLEEPED UP, BLEEPING MOTHER BLEEPERS
NO BLEEPING WAY THAT'S BLEEPED UP, BLEEPING MOTHER BLEEPERS
Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.
BRONZE Member
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Still wiggling
5,967 posts
Location: Belfast, Northern Ireland (UK)
Posted:
Yes, it's crap... and you shouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised.
On an entirely different note... did anyone catch snippets of the George Galloway/Christopher Hitchens debate?
Yes, it's crap... and you shouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised.
On an entirely different note... did anyone catch snippets of the George Galloway/Christopher Hitchens debate?
Getting to the other side 
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
i dunno, i thought the icing on the cake was that his admission was immediately used to turn things around in the same way the WTO turned things around after the marches, and they did after 9/11. i watched it happen 2 days ago on CNN.
"i'm sorry, we messed up, we need MORE POWER to do the job right, let's restructure the gov't agencies and add some more."
genius man, they never cease to impress me with their spin.
problem is, MORE just means more incompetence and money profiteering.
i dunno, i thought the icing on the cake was that his admission was immediately used to turn things around in the same way the WTO turned things around after the marches, and they did after 9/11. i watched it happen 2 days ago on CNN.
"i'm sorry, we messed up, we need MORE POWER to do the job right, let's restructure the gov't agencies and add some more."
genius man, they never cease to impress me with their spin.
problem is, MORE just means more incompetence and money profiteering.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
goodness i hate being right all the time. the department of homeland security to the rescue!
will he take responsibility for this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two friends of mine-paramedics attending a
conference-were trapped in
New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina. This is their
eyewitness report. --PG
Hurricane Katrina-Our Experiences
Larry Bradshaw, Lorrie Beth Slonsky
Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans,
the Walgreen's
store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets
remained locked. The
dairy display case was clearly visible through the
widows. It was now 48
hours without electricity, running water, plumbing.
The milk, yogurt,
and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree
heat. The owners
and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers,
and prescriptions
and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's windows,
residents and tourists
grew increasingly thirsty and hungry.
The much-promised federal, state and local aid never
materialized and
the windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters.
There was an
alternative. The cops could have broken one small
window and distributed
the nuts, fruit juices, and bottle water in an
organized and systematic
manner. But they did not. Instead they spent hours
playing cat and
mouse, temporarily chasing away the looters.
We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days
ago and arrived
home yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of
the TV coverage or
look at a newspaper. We are willing to guess that
there were no video
images or front-page pictures of European or affluent
white tourists
looting the Walgreen's in the French Quarter.
We also suspect the media will have been inundated
with "hero" images of
the National Guard, the troops and the police
struggling to help the
"victims" of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but
what we
witnessed,were the real heroes and sheroes of the
hurricane relief
effort: the working class of New Orleans. The
maintenance workers who
used a fork lift to carry the sick and disabled. The
engineers, who
rigged, nurtured and kept the generators running. The
electricians who
improvised thick extension cords stretching over
blocks to share the
little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck
on rooftop parking
lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators
and spent many
hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of
unconscious patients
to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in
elevators.
Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing"
boats to rescue
their neighbors clinging to their roofs in flood
waters. Mechanics who
helped hot-wire any car that could be found to ferry
people out of the
City. And the food service workers who scoured the
commercial kitchens
improvising communal meals for hundreds of those
stranded.
Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had
not heard from
members of their families, yet they stayed and
provided the only
infrastructure for the 20% of New Orleans that was not
under water.
On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in
the hotels in the
French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists,
conference attendees
like ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels
for safety and
shelter from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone
contact with family and
friends outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly
told that all sorts
of resources including the National Guard and scores
of buses were
pouring in to the City. The buses and the other
resources must have been
invisible because none of us had seen them.
We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our
money and came up
with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of
the City. Those
who did not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket
were subsidized by
those who did have extra money. We waited for 48 hours
for the buses,
spending the last 12 hours standing outside, sharing
the limited water,
food, and clothes we had. We created a priority
boarding area for the
sick, elderly and new born babies. We waited late into
the night for the
"imminent" arrival of the buses. The buses never
arrived. We later
learned that the minute the arrived to the City
limits, they were
commandeered by the military.
By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water.
Sanitation was
dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair
increased, street
crime as well as water levels began to rise. The
hotels turned us out
and locked their doors, telling us that the
"officials" told us to
report to the convention center to wait for more
buses. As we entered
the center of the City, we finally encountered the
National Guard. The
Guards told us we would not be allowed into the
Superdome as the City's
primary shelter had descended into a humanitarian and
health hellhole.
The guards further told us that the City's only other
shelter, the
Convention Center, was also descending into chaos and
squalor and that
the police were not allowing anyone else in. Quite
naturally, we asked,
"If we can't go to the only 2 shelters in the City,
what was our
alternative?" The guards told us that that was our
problem, and no they
did not have extra water to give to us. This would be
the start of our
numerous encounters with callous and hostile "law
enforcement".
We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on
Canal Street and
were told the same thing, that we were on our own, and
no they did not
have water to give us. We now numbered several
hundred. We held a mass
meeting to decide a course of action. We agreed to
camp outside the
police command post. We would be plainly visible to
the media and would
constitute a highly visible embarrassment to the City
officials. The
police told us that we could not stay. Regardless, we
began to settle in
and set up camp. In short order, the police commander
came across the
street to address our group. He told us he had a
solution: we should
walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the
greater New Orleans
Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us
out of the City.
The crowed cheered and began to move. We called
everyone back and
explained to the commander that there had been lots of
misinformation
and wrong information and was he sure that there were
buses waiting for
us. The commander turned to the crowd and stated
emphatically, "I swear
to you that the buses are there."
We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for
the bridge with
great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the
convention center,
many locals saw our determined and optimistic group
and asked where we
were headed. We told them about the great news.
Families immediately
grabbed their few belongings and quickly our numbers
doubled and then
doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us,
people using crutches,
elderly clasping walkers and others people in
wheelchairs. We marched
the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep incline
to the Bridge. It
now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our
enthusiasm.
As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs
formed a line across
the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to
speak, they began
firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the
crowd fleeing in
various directions. As the crowd scattered and
dissipated, a few of us
inched forward and managed to engage some of the
sheriffs in
conversation. We told them of our conversation with
the police commander
and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs
informed us there were
no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get
us to move.
We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway,
especially as
there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They
responded that the
West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and
there would be no
Superdomes in their City. These were code words for if
you are poor and
black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River and
you were not
getting out of New Orleans.
Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek
shelter from the
rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in
the end decided to
build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain
Expressway on the
center divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas
exits. We reasoned
we would be visible to everyone, we would have some
security being on an
elevated freeway and we could wait and watch for the
arrival of the yet
to be seen buses.
All day long, we saw other families, individuals and
groups make the
same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the
bridge, only to be
turned away. Some chased away with gunfire, others
simply told no,
others to be verbally berated and humiliated.
Thousands of New Orleaners
were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the
City on foot.
Meanwhile, the only two City shelters sank further
into squalor and
disrepair. The only way across the bridge was by
vehicle. We saw workers
stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi-trucks and
any car that could
be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to
escape the misery New
Orleans had become.
Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole
a water delivery
truck and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for
looting! A mile or so
down the freeway, an army truck lost a couple of
pallets of C-rations on
a tight turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in
shopping carts.
Now secure with the two necessities, food and water;
cooperation,
community, and creativity flowered. We organized a
clean up and hung
garbage bags from the rebar poles. We made beds from
wood pallets and
cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the bathroom
and the kids
built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of
plastic, broken
umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food
recycling system
where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations
(applesauce for
babies and candies for kids!).
This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath
of Katrina. When
individuals had to fight to find food or water, it
meant looking out for
yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find
water for your
kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs
were met, people
began to look out for each other, working together and
constructing a
community.
If the relief organizations had saturated the City
with food and water
in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the
frustration and the
ugliness would not have set in.
Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water
to passing
families and individuals. Many decided to stay and
join us. Our
encampment grew to 80 or 90 people.
From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned
that the media was
talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway,
every relief and news
organizations saw us on their way into the City.
Officials were being
asked what they were going to do about all those
families living up on
the freeway? The officials responded they were going
to take care of us.
Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us"
had an ominous
tone to it.
Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the
sinking City) was
correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed
up, jumped out of
his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces,
screaming, "Get off the
[censored] freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the
wind from its blades
to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated,
the sheriff loaded
up his truck with our food and water.
Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the
freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we
congregated or
congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every
congregation of "victims"
they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers.
Our "we must stay
together" was impossible because the agencies would
force us into small
atomized groups.
In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and
destroyed, we scattered
once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in
the dark, we sought
refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway
on Cilo Street. We
were hiding from possible criminal elements but
equally and definitely,
we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their
martial law,
curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.
The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day,
made contact with
New Orleans Fire Department and were eventually
airlifted out by an
urban search and rescue team. We were dropped off near
the airport and
managed to catch a ride with the National Guard. The
two young guardsmen
apologized for the limited response of the Louisiana
guards. They
explained that a large section of their unit was in
Iraq and that meant
they were shorthanded and were unable to complete all
the tasks they
were assigned.
We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift
had begun. The
airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught
in a press of
humanity as flights were delayed for several hours
while George Bush
landed briefly at the airport for a photo op. After
being evacuated on a
coast guard cargo plane, we arrived in San Antonio,
Texas.
There the humiliation and dehumanization of the
official relief effort
continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a
large field where we
were forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the
buses did not have
air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds if us were
forced to share two
filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to
make it out with
any possessions (often a few belongings in tattered
plastic bags) we
were subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches.
Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations
had been
confiscated at the airport because the rations set off
the metal
detectors. Yet, no food had been provided to the men,
women, children,
elderly, disabled as they sat for hours waiting to be
"medically
screened" to make sure we were not carrying any
communicable diseases.
This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the
warm, heart-felt
reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw
one airline worker
give her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers
on the street
offered us money and toiletries with words of welcome.
Throughout, the
official relief effort was callous, inept, and racist.
There was more
suffering than need be. Lives were lost that did not
need to be lost.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genocide in New Orleans
by Kirsten Anderberg Friday, Sep. 02, 2005 at 6:22 AM
I was seriously hoping that I would not have to write this article. But it has been too long now, and I have to say something. Regardless of whether the deaths en masse of poor black folks in New Orleans is due to neglect or maliciousness, the end result is constructively a genocide on poor blacks in America, right now, in 2005. The lack of aid to New Orleans at this late hour (7 pm, Sept. 1) is not explicable. I have only one explanation that I can muster up. And that explanation is classism and racism.
I was seriously hoping that I would not have to write this article. But it has been too long now, and I have to say something. Regardless of whether the deaths en masse of poor black folks in New Orleans is due to neglect or maliciousness, the end result is constructively a genocide on poor blacks in America, right now, in 2005. The lack of aid to New Orleans at this late hour (7 pm, Sept. 1) is not explicable. I have only one explanation that I can muster up. And that explanation is classism and racism.
The reality is these refugees in New Orleans right now were already poor, so that tells you how much the government cared about them BEFORE this disaster. Why would you expect the government to all of a sudden, now, prioritize the group they did not care about before, to the tune of inadequate health care, inadequate and expensive housing, etc.? So this is not a shock, I guess, that the American government is apparently going to let poor black Americans die for no apparent reason, right on the nightly news. They were already not caring about the health of these people, so I guess they are still in that mindset.
Look, New Orleans is not on Mars. I cannot explain why military aircraft carriers, the like we saw during the South Vietnamese evacuation in the Vietnam War, are not landing in New Orleans and airlifting these folks out. Are they all in Iraq or what? I also cannot explain why they are not, at the very least, airdropping food and water onto the people in New Orleans, like they did in Afghanistan after 9/11. These people are literally DYING because America is not doing that! I cannot explain why they did not evacuate the New Orleans jail until AFTER the disaster, either. The many, many ways that the American government has now jeopardized the lives of poor black Americans in this Katrina disaster has literally scared me to death, as a poor person. I feel very strongly that if those were middle class white people stuck in those conditions in New Orleans right now, that relief would have come days ago. For some reason, just as the cops let L.A. burn in the Rodney King riots, this smells of racism to me.
New Orleans is not even a day away from the West Coast. I cannot explain why it is taking days to get help to those people dying down in New Orleans right now. But I remember when I was in the Northridge Earthquake in 1994, that the white middle class people had all the water they could use from the national guard, while only a few miles to the south, the mostly Hispanic communities, were standing in lines for hours in the sun to get only 5 gallons of water. My son and I drove up from the San Fernando Valley into the Santa Clarita Valley in 1994 after the quake collapsed our apartment, after seeing block-long lines at stores for water and long lines at high schools and parks with National Guard trucks giving out water to anyone with a 5 gallon container. When we hit Santa Clarita, there were cases of bottled water at every I-5 off ramp, with military personnel just sitting there, waiting for these middle class families to drive up. When I hit the Santa Clarita Red Cross, they also asked me to take some water off their hands, unloading a few cases of Evian water into my trunk! They had a surplus. I asked both the military and the Red Cross to please load the water up and drive just a bit over the hill where the water was desperately needed. And they refused. Maybe that story is a microcosm of what is going on here in New Orleans right now. No one wants to drive over the hill with supplies?
I cannot explain why there is not at least food and water for the people we are seeing suffering in New Orleans, and the idea there is no landing strip is not true. I have seen flat lawns with massive people littered on them, I have seen abandoned highway strips that could sustain a landing, and I am sure if you told the refugees if they move out of the area for the plane to land, they will be airlifted out, they would cooperate right away!
I have watched insane police hold machine guns to the bodies of mothers carrying clothing out of department stores on TV news. I saw the cops force the mothers to drop the clothing, with his gun in her chest, and she dropped the clothing, and it floated away. A pure authoritarian waste. Even Nazi-ish in nature! I saw police allowing their own into stores for food, but holding the people back from the same luxury, calling poor blacks desperate for food and water “looters” while the cops do the same exact thing and are NOT called looters. I would assume some cops are gonna die if they keep trying to act like this. I see America fueling a heavy crisis in New Orleans, then blaming the refugees for getting desperate. Just as it is in the Middle East, if people were fed by American government, instead of patrolled and pointed at with guns while hungry, things will be safer for all.
The racist cops of L.A. used the Rodney King riots to validate some kind of weird racist theory that blacks are violent and riot. But that is bull. The movie “Trading Places” with Eddie Murphy and Dan Akroyd is a beautiful movie about this idea where you drive someone to desperation then call them criminals. My friend was cleaning pools in Beverly Hills during the Rodney King riots and she said there was a cop car on every block. But when she got into the lower income areas, a cop could not be found. So, from my own disaster experiences, I guess the class/caste separation of even disaster rescue in America is obvious and dominant.
I just told my 21 year old son that he is watching a genocide of people in America right now on TV, as this is what this feels like to me. I have heard NO logical argument as to how on earth those people could still be stranded in New Orleans. It is not Mars. This is ridiculous. And it has become obvious this delayed response in New Orleans is fueled by classism and racism, unless the U.S. government can spit out some logical explanation, but I have not heard one yet. New Orleans is a scene of constructive genocide right now on America’s poor blacks, and I do not know how Americans are just sitting quietly as they watch this on TV. I am out of my mind about this right now. Just out of my damned mind. I have never hated GWBush more, and I have never seen a better living example of classism and racism alive in America today. According to resources in Canada, Canadian TV is reporting they offered planes full of food, water, and supplies to help New Orleans refugees and America turned them down! Again, I wish I did not have to write this article. And I hope I am wrong in this conclusion. But again, I have waited days now for logical answers from the U.S. government and it appears those answers are not coming!
www.kirstenanderberg.com
goodness i hate being right all the time.
the department of homeland security to the rescue! will he take responsibility for this?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Two friends of mine-paramedics attending a
conference-were trapped in
New Orleans by Hurricane Katrina. This is their
eyewitness report. --PG
Hurricane Katrina-Our Experiences
Larry Bradshaw, Lorrie Beth Slonsky
Two days after Hurricane Katrina struck New Orleans,
the Walgreen's
store at the corner of Royal and Iberville streets
remained locked. The
dairy display case was clearly visible through the
widows. It was now 48
hours without electricity, running water, plumbing.
The milk, yogurt,
and cheeses were beginning to spoil in the 90-degree
heat. The owners
and managers had locked up the food, water, pampers,
and prescriptions
and fled the City. Outside Walgreen's windows,
residents and tourists
grew increasingly thirsty and hungry.
The much-promised federal, state and local aid never
materialized and
the windows at Walgreen's gave way to the looters.
There was an
alternative. The cops could have broken one small
window and distributed
the nuts, fruit juices, and bottle water in an
organized and systematic
manner. But they did not. Instead they spent hours
playing cat and
mouse, temporarily chasing away the looters.
We were finally airlifted out of New Orleans two days
ago and arrived
home yesterday (Saturday). We have yet to see any of
the TV coverage or
look at a newspaper. We are willing to guess that
there were no video
images or front-page pictures of European or affluent
white tourists
looting the Walgreen's in the French Quarter.
We also suspect the media will have been inundated
with "hero" images of
the National Guard, the troops and the police
struggling to help the
"victims" of the Hurricane. What you will not see, but
what we
witnessed,were the real heroes and sheroes of the
hurricane relief
effort: the working class of New Orleans. The
maintenance workers who
used a fork lift to carry the sick and disabled. The
engineers, who
rigged, nurtured and kept the generators running. The
electricians who
improvised thick extension cords stretching over
blocks to share the
little electricity we had in order to free cars stuck
on rooftop parking
lots. Nurses who took over for mechanical ventilators
and spent many
hours on end manually forcing air into the lungs of
unconscious patients
to keep them alive. Doormen who rescued folks stuck in
elevators.
Refinery workers who broke into boat yards, "stealing"
boats to rescue
their neighbors clinging to their roofs in flood
waters. Mechanics who
helped hot-wire any car that could be found to ferry
people out of the
City. And the food service workers who scoured the
commercial kitchens
improvising communal meals for hundreds of those
stranded.
Most of these workers had lost their homes, and had
not heard from
members of their families, yet they stayed and
provided the only
infrastructure for the 20% of New Orleans that was not
under water.
On Day 2, there were approximately 500 of us left in
the hotels in the
French Quarter. We were a mix of foreign tourists,
conference attendees
like ourselves, and locals who had checked into hotels
for safety and
shelter from Katrina. Some of us had cell phone
contact with family and
friends outside of New Orleans. We were repeatedly
told that all sorts
of resources including the National Guard and scores
of buses were
pouring in to the City. The buses and the other
resources must have been
invisible because none of us had seen them.
We decided we had to save ourselves. So we pooled our
money and came up
with $25,000 to have ten buses come and take us out of
the City. Those
who did not have the requisite $45.00 for a ticket
were subsidized by
those who did have extra money. We waited for 48 hours
for the buses,
spending the last 12 hours standing outside, sharing
the limited water,
food, and clothes we had. We created a priority
boarding area for the
sick, elderly and new born babies. We waited late into
the night for the
"imminent" arrival of the buses. The buses never
arrived. We later
learned that the minute the arrived to the City
limits, they were
commandeered by the military.
By day 4 our hotels had run out of fuel and water.
Sanitation was
dangerously abysmal. As the desperation and despair
increased, street
crime as well as water levels began to rise. The
hotels turned us out
and locked their doors, telling us that the
"officials" told us to
report to the convention center to wait for more
buses. As we entered
the center of the City, we finally encountered the
National Guard. The
Guards told us we would not be allowed into the
Superdome as the City's
primary shelter had descended into a humanitarian and
health hellhole.
The guards further told us that the City's only other
shelter, the
Convention Center, was also descending into chaos and
squalor and that
the police were not allowing anyone else in. Quite
naturally, we asked,
"If we can't go to the only 2 shelters in the City,
what was our
alternative?" The guards told us that that was our
problem, and no they
did not have extra water to give to us. This would be
the start of our
numerous encounters with callous and hostile "law
enforcement".
We walked to the police command center at Harrah's on
Canal Street and
were told the same thing, that we were on our own, and
no they did not
have water to give us. We now numbered several
hundred. We held a mass
meeting to decide a course of action. We agreed to
camp outside the
police command post. We would be plainly visible to
the media and would
constitute a highly visible embarrassment to the City
officials. The
police told us that we could not stay. Regardless, we
began to settle in
and set up camp. In short order, the police commander
came across the
street to address our group. He told us he had a
solution: we should
walk to the Pontchartrain Expressway and cross the
greater New Orleans
Bridge where the police had buses lined up to take us
out of the City.
The crowed cheered and began to move. We called
everyone back and
explained to the commander that there had been lots of
misinformation
and wrong information and was he sure that there were
buses waiting for
us. The commander turned to the crowd and stated
emphatically, "I swear
to you that the buses are there."
We organized ourselves and the 200 of us set off for
the bridge with
great excitement and hope. As we marched pasted the
convention center,
many locals saw our determined and optimistic group
and asked where we
were headed. We told them about the great news.
Families immediately
grabbed their few belongings and quickly our numbers
doubled and then
doubled again. Babies in strollers now joined us,
people using crutches,
elderly clasping walkers and others people in
wheelchairs. We marched
the 2-3 miles to the freeway and up the steep incline
to the Bridge. It
now began to pour down rain, but it did not dampen our
enthusiasm.
As we approached the bridge, armed Gretna sheriffs
formed a line across
the foot of the bridge. Before we were close enough to
speak, they began
firing their weapons over our heads. This sent the
crowd fleeing in
various directions. As the crowd scattered and
dissipated, a few of us
inched forward and managed to engage some of the
sheriffs in
conversation. We told them of our conversation with
the police commander
and of the commander's assurances. The sheriffs
informed us there were
no buses waiting. The commander had lied to us to get
us to move.
We questioned why we couldn't cross the bridge anyway,
especially as
there was little traffic on the 6-lane highway. They
responded that the
West Bank was not going to become New Orleans and
there would be no
Superdomes in their City. These were code words for if
you are poor and
black, you are not crossing the Mississippi River and
you were not
getting out of New Orleans.
Our small group retreated back down Highway 90 to seek
shelter from the
rain under an overpass. We debated our options and in
the end decided to
build an encampment in the middle of the Ponchartrain
Expressway on the
center divide, between the O'Keefe and Tchoupitoulas
exits. We reasoned
we would be visible to everyone, we would have some
security being on an
elevated freeway and we could wait and watch for the
arrival of the yet
to be seen buses.
All day long, we saw other families, individuals and
groups make the
same trip up the incline in an attempt to cross the
bridge, only to be
turned away. Some chased away with gunfire, others
simply told no,
others to be verbally berated and humiliated.
Thousands of New Orleaners
were prevented and prohibited from self-evacuating the
City on foot.
Meanwhile, the only two City shelters sank further
into squalor and
disrepair. The only way across the bridge was by
vehicle. We saw workers
stealing trucks, buses, moving vans, semi-trucks and
any car that could
be hotwired. All were packed with people trying to
escape the misery New
Orleans had become.
Our little encampment began to blossom. Someone stole
a water delivery
truck and brought it up to us. Let's hear it for
looting! A mile or so
down the freeway, an army truck lost a couple of
pallets of C-rations on
a tight turn. We ferried the food back to our camp in
shopping carts.
Now secure with the two necessities, food and water;
cooperation,
community, and creativity flowered. We organized a
clean up and hung
garbage bags from the rebar poles. We made beds from
wood pallets and
cardboard. We designated a storm drain as the bathroom
and the kids
built an elaborate enclosure for privacy out of
plastic, broken
umbrellas, and other scraps. We even organized a food
recycling system
where individuals could swap out parts of C-rations
(applesauce for
babies and candies for kids!).
This was a process we saw repeatedly in the aftermath
of Katrina. When
individuals had to fight to find food or water, it
meant looking out for
yourself only. You had to do whatever it took to find
water for your
kids or food for your parents. When these basic needs
were met, people
began to look out for each other, working together and
constructing a
community.
If the relief organizations had saturated the City
with food and water
in the first 2 or 3 days, the desperation, the
frustration and the
ugliness would not have set in.
Flush with the necessities, we offered food and water
to passing
families and individuals. Many decided to stay and
join us. Our
encampment grew to 80 or 90 people.
From a woman with a battery powered radio we learned
that the media was
talking about us. Up in full view on the freeway,
every relief and news
organizations saw us on their way into the City.
Officials were being
asked what they were going to do about all those
families living up on
the freeway? The officials responded they were going
to take care of us.
Some of us got a sinking feeling. "Taking care of us"
had an ominous
tone to it.
Unfortunately, our sinking feeling (along with the
sinking City) was
correct. Just as dusk set in, a Gretna Sheriff showed
up, jumped out of
his patrol vehicle, aimed his gun at our faces,
screaming, "Get off the
[censored] freeway". A helicopter arrived and used the
wind from its blades
to blow away our flimsy structures. As we retreated,
the sheriff loaded
up his truck with our food and water.
Once again, at gunpoint, we were forced off the
freeway. All the law
enforcement agencies appeared threatened when we
congregated or
congealed into groups of 20 or more. In every
congregation of "victims"
they saw "mob" or "riot". We felt safety in numbers.
Our "we must stay
together" was impossible because the agencies would
force us into small
atomized groups.
In the pandemonium of having our camp raided and
destroyed, we scattered
once again. Reduced to a small group of 8 people, in
the dark, we sought
refuge in an abandoned school bus, under the freeway
on Cilo Street. We
were hiding from possible criminal elements but
equally and definitely,
we were hiding from the police and sheriffs with their
martial law,
curfew and shoot-to-kill policies.
The next days, our group of 8 walked most of the day,
made contact with
New Orleans Fire Department and were eventually
airlifted out by an
urban search and rescue team. We were dropped off near
the airport and
managed to catch a ride with the National Guard. The
two young guardsmen
apologized for the limited response of the Louisiana
guards. They
explained that a large section of their unit was in
Iraq and that meant
they were shorthanded and were unable to complete all
the tasks they
were assigned.
We arrived at the airport on the day a massive airlift
had begun. The
airport had become another Superdome. We 8 were caught
in a press of
humanity as flights were delayed for several hours
while George Bush
landed briefly at the airport for a photo op. After
being evacuated on a
coast guard cargo plane, we arrived in San Antonio,
Texas.
There the humiliation and dehumanization of the
official relief effort
continued. We were placed on buses and driven to a
large field where we
were forced to sit for hours and hours. Some of the
buses did not have
air-conditioners. In the dark, hundreds if us were
forced to share two
filthy overflowing porta-potties. Those who managed to
make it out with
any possessions (often a few belongings in tattered
plastic bags) we
were subjected to two different dog-sniffing searches.
Most of us had not eaten all day because our C-rations
had been
confiscated at the airport because the rations set off
the metal
detectors. Yet, no food had been provided to the men,
women, children,
elderly, disabled as they sat for hours waiting to be
"medically
screened" to make sure we were not carrying any
communicable diseases.
This official treatment was in sharp contrast to the
warm, heart-felt
reception given to us by the ordinary Texans. We saw
one airline worker
give her shoes to someone who was barefoot. Strangers
on the street
offered us money and toiletries with words of welcome.
Throughout, the
official relief effort was callous, inept, and racist.
There was more
suffering than need be. Lives were lost that did not
need to be lost.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Genocide in New Orleans
by Kirsten Anderberg Friday, Sep. 02, 2005 at 6:22 AM
I was seriously hoping that I would not have to write this article. But it has been too long now, and I have to say something. Regardless of whether the deaths en masse of poor black folks in New Orleans is due to neglect or maliciousness, the end result is constructively a genocide on poor blacks in America, right now, in 2005. The lack of aid to New Orleans at this late hour (7 pm, Sept. 1) is not explicable. I have only one explanation that I can muster up. And that explanation is classism and racism.
I was seriously hoping that I would not have to write this article. But it has been too long now, and I have to say something. Regardless of whether the deaths en masse of poor black folks in New Orleans is due to neglect or maliciousness, the end result is constructively a genocide on poor blacks in America, right now, in 2005. The lack of aid to New Orleans at this late hour (7 pm, Sept. 1) is not explicable. I have only one explanation that I can muster up. And that explanation is classism and racism.
The reality is these refugees in New Orleans right now were already poor, so that tells you how much the government cared about them BEFORE this disaster. Why would you expect the government to all of a sudden, now, prioritize the group they did not care about before, to the tune of inadequate health care, inadequate and expensive housing, etc.? So this is not a shock, I guess, that the American government is apparently going to let poor black Americans die for no apparent reason, right on the nightly news. They were already not caring about the health of these people, so I guess they are still in that mindset.
Look, New Orleans is not on Mars. I cannot explain why military aircraft carriers, the like we saw during the South Vietnamese evacuation in the Vietnam War, are not landing in New Orleans and airlifting these folks out. Are they all in Iraq or what? I also cannot explain why they are not, at the very least, airdropping food and water onto the people in New Orleans, like they did in Afghanistan after 9/11. These people are literally DYING because America is not doing that! I cannot explain why they did not evacuate the New Orleans jail until AFTER the disaster, either. The many, many ways that the American government has now jeopardized the lives of poor black Americans in this Katrina disaster has literally scared me to death, as a poor person. I feel very strongly that if those were middle class white people stuck in those conditions in New Orleans right now, that relief would have come days ago. For some reason, just as the cops let L.A. burn in the Rodney King riots, this smells of racism to me.
New Orleans is not even a day away from the West Coast. I cannot explain why it is taking days to get help to those people dying down in New Orleans right now. But I remember when I was in the Northridge Earthquake in 1994, that the white middle class people had all the water they could use from the national guard, while only a few miles to the south, the mostly Hispanic communities, were standing in lines for hours in the sun to get only 5 gallons of water. My son and I drove up from the San Fernando Valley into the Santa Clarita Valley in 1994 after the quake collapsed our apartment, after seeing block-long lines at stores for water and long lines at high schools and parks with National Guard trucks giving out water to anyone with a 5 gallon container. When we hit Santa Clarita, there were cases of bottled water at every I-5 off ramp, with military personnel just sitting there, waiting for these middle class families to drive up. When I hit the Santa Clarita Red Cross, they also asked me to take some water off their hands, unloading a few cases of Evian water into my trunk! They had a surplus. I asked both the military and the Red Cross to please load the water up and drive just a bit over the hill where the water was desperately needed. And they refused. Maybe that story is a microcosm of what is going on here in New Orleans right now. No one wants to drive over the hill with supplies?
I cannot explain why there is not at least food and water for the people we are seeing suffering in New Orleans, and the idea there is no landing strip is not true. I have seen flat lawns with massive people littered on them, I have seen abandoned highway strips that could sustain a landing, and I am sure if you told the refugees if they move out of the area for the plane to land, they will be airlifted out, they would cooperate right away!
I have watched insane police hold machine guns to the bodies of mothers carrying clothing out of department stores on TV news. I saw the cops force the mothers to drop the clothing, with his gun in her chest, and she dropped the clothing, and it floated away. A pure authoritarian waste. Even Nazi-ish in nature! I saw police allowing their own into stores for food, but holding the people back from the same luxury, calling poor blacks desperate for food and water “looters” while the cops do the same exact thing and are NOT called looters. I would assume some cops are gonna die if they keep trying to act like this. I see America fueling a heavy crisis in New Orleans, then blaming the refugees for getting desperate. Just as it is in the Middle East, if people were fed by American government, instead of patrolled and pointed at with guns while hungry, things will be safer for all.
The racist cops of L.A. used the Rodney King riots to validate some kind of weird racist theory that blacks are violent and riot. But that is bull. The movie “Trading Places” with Eddie Murphy and Dan Akroyd is a beautiful movie about this idea where you drive someone to desperation then call them criminals. My friend was cleaning pools in Beverly Hills during the Rodney King riots and she said there was a cop car on every block. But when she got into the lower income areas, a cop could not be found. So, from my own disaster experiences, I guess the class/caste separation of even disaster rescue in America is obvious and dominant.
I just told my 21 year old son that he is watching a genocide of people in America right now on TV, as this is what this feels like to me. I have heard NO logical argument as to how on earth those people could still be stranded in New Orleans. It is not Mars. This is ridiculous. And it has become obvious this delayed response in New Orleans is fueled by classism and racism, unless the U.S. government can spit out some logical explanation, but I have not heard one yet. New Orleans is a scene of constructive genocide right now on America’s poor blacks, and I do not know how Americans are just sitting quietly as they watch this on TV. I am out of my mind about this right now. Just out of my damned mind. I have never hated GWBush more, and I have never seen a better living example of classism and racism alive in America today. According to resources in Canada, Canadian TV is reporting they offered planes full of food, water, and supplies to help New Orleans refugees and America turned them down! Again, I wish I did not have to write this article. And I hope I am wrong in this conclusion. But again, I have waited days now for logical answers from the U.S. government and it appears those answers are not coming!
www.kirstenanderberg.com
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
NYC
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
9,232 posts
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Posted:
Oops!
I stop reading anything on the internet once I get to the word "Nazi".
That's my rule.
Too bad, it probably had a good point.
Oops!
I stop reading anything on the internet once I get to the word "Nazi".
That's my rule.
Too bad, it probably had a good point.
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
632 posts
Location: Southampton Uni
Posted:
That's sickening Arashi. For the love of all things good and wonderful in this world, Bush must be held accountable, and his face rubbed in the mess that he's caused. That's not the same as saying "I'm sorry for parts of it but...". They all have my prayers.
That's sickening Arashi. For the love of all things good and wonderful in this world, Bush must be held accountable, and his face rubbed in the mess that he's caused. That's not the same as saying "I'm sorry for parts of it but...". They all have my prayers.
Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Ok, so far it's been my understanding that incompetence and a lack of preparedness were the main culprits behind what happened in New Orleans and it looks like GW is acknowledging those as fact.
I'm not here to defend the media, or the National Guard, or anyone else in a position of authority because all the information I've gotten on what happened came from the mainstream media. I wasn't in NO during the disaster, and I seriously doubt the writers of the " eyewitness account" were, either.
When I read the story, here on HOP, then on tribe, a week ago, I ended up with quite a few questions for the authors, so many in fact that I seriously doubted the credibility of the story.
For instance, the authors claim to be paramedics in N.O. on a conference, now why did they stay when an evacuation of the city was ordered before the hurricane hit? As memers of the emergency response system their decision to stay put confuses me.
They had a couple of days of warning, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to at least fill a bathtub full of water before a natural disaster hits, and what about their mini bar? No mention of that, there's usually enough junk food in one of those to survive for a few days. Likewise with Wallgreens, there's way more calories in in the cookies and pop than in the health foods the authors mentioned, weren't we talking survival here? It's suprising what you'll eat when your truly hungry.
Next, the authors demonstrate thier amazing insight into what must have been portrayed in the media, without ( of course ) seeing t.v. or a newspaper. I don't doubt the accounts of people helping each other out, but just what were they planning to do with the cars stranded on rooftop parking parking and why did they need electicity to do that?
I thought the cell phone network was out ? but the writers managed to use one to hire a bus company to come in and pick the survivors up. Weren't the roads impassable?
I could go on and on ,cynically tearing this story apart, but I'll stop with just those few examples and call it how I see it, as nothing more than a Socalist fairy tale.
And the second story, well I'll keep my mouth shut, other than to say that I feel the author obviously doesn't like white men, and is using them as a scapegoat for ALL of the worlds problems. Nazi-ish ? genocide? come on.
Ok, so far it's been my understanding that incompetence and a lack of preparedness were the main culprits behind what happened in New Orleans and it looks like GW is acknowledging those as fact.
I'm not here to defend the media, or the National Guard, or anyone else in a position of authority because all the information I've gotten on what happened came from the mainstream media. I wasn't in NO during the disaster, and I seriously doubt the writers of the " eyewitness account" were, either.
When I read the story, here on HOP, then on tribe, a week ago, I ended up with quite a few questions for the authors, so many in fact that I seriously doubted the credibility of the story.
For instance, the authors claim to be paramedics in N.O. on a conference, now why did they stay when an evacuation of the city was ordered before the hurricane hit? As memers of the emergency response system their decision to stay put confuses me.
They had a couple of days of warning, but it doesn't take a rocket scientist to at least fill a bathtub full of water before a natural disaster hits, and what about their mini bar? No mention of that, there's usually enough junk food in one of those to survive for a few days. Likewise with Wallgreens, there's way more calories in in the cookies and pop than in the health foods the authors mentioned, weren't we talking survival here? It's suprising what you'll eat when your truly hungry.
Next, the authors demonstrate thier amazing insight into what must have been portrayed in the media, without ( of course ) seeing t.v. or a newspaper. I don't doubt the accounts of people helping each other out, but just what were they planning to do with the cars stranded on rooftop parking parking and why did they need electicity to do that?
I thought the cell phone network was out ? but the writers managed to use one to hire a bus company to come in and pick the survivors up. Weren't the roads impassable?
I could go on and on ,cynically tearing this story apart, but I'll stop with just those few examples and call it how I see it, as nothing more than a Socalist fairy tale.
And the second story, well I'll keep my mouth shut, other than to say that I feel the author obviously doesn't like white men, and is using them as a scapegoat for ALL of the worlds problems. Nazi-ish ? genocide? come on.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
of course, you never know.
but it's interesting that you find the scenario so implausible.. are you white or what? anyone who comes from a culture that has been wronged by the US gov't i think could swallow this pill without water.
i've reread the story and i'm sorry but i don't think your points really invalidate the story's "facts"... for ex. if i was stuck there i'd try to hotwire a car to get out. have you been to new orleans? the race issue and its repercussions cannot be overstated.
seems like the facts and accounts are overwhelmingly in favor of the horror stories. you say you've only read the mainstream media on this subject. well, that right there tells me you have NO clue what's up with the truth
not that i do necessarily, but i know if you read accounts of history from the losers' side, there's always more horror to truth than what you hear.
of course, you never know.
but it's interesting that you find the scenario so implausible.. are you white or what? anyone who comes from a culture that has been wronged by the US gov't i think could swallow this pill without water.
i've reread the story and i'm sorry but i don't think your points really invalidate the story's "facts"... for ex. if i was stuck there i'd try to hotwire a car to get out. have you been to new orleans? the race issue and its repercussions cannot be overstated.
seems like the facts and accounts are overwhelmingly in favor of the horror stories. you say you've only read the mainstream media on this subject. well, that right there tells me you have NO clue what's up with the truth
not that i do necessarily, but i know if you read accounts of history from the losers' side, there's always more horror to truth than what you hear.
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
And on a side note, if you think the "Nazi" aspect of mankind's psyche just magically disappeared when Hitler died, then your naivete is preventing you from helping humanity truly evolve from the Nazi possibility. that was only 3 generations ago... in fact the first word on any sociologist's lips should be "Nazi" as a shining example of what humans can do to each other before they even realize that they are evil. For me American CAN HAVE the same dirty connotation, wholesale slaughter of American Indians drives it home.
i think it's enfuriating that when people draw real parallels to Nazism as a way to show a contemporary, real phenomenon in humanity, blind acceptance of propoganda, indifference to horror, etc. people write the entire point off wholesale... seems like an ostrich with it's head in the sand
but i think i see your "NYC sarcastic" point, which is that the term gets thrown around a bit lightly sometimes... just put yourself in that situation and tell me you wouldn't have a spiteful reaction like they did...
EDITED_BY: arashi (1126905371)
And on a side note, if you think the "Nazi" aspect of mankind's psyche just magically disappeared when Hitler died, then your naivete is preventing you from helping humanity truly evolve from the Nazi possibility. that was only 3 generations ago... in fact the first word on any sociologist's lips should be "Nazi" as a shining example of what humans can do to each other before they even realize that they are evil. For me American CAN HAVE the same dirty connotation, wholesale slaughter of American Indians drives it home.
i think it's enfuriating that when people draw real parallels to Nazism as a way to show a contemporary, real phenomenon in humanity, blind acceptance of propoganda, indifference to horror, etc. people write the entire point off wholesale... seems like an ostrich with it's head in the sand
but i think i see your "NYC sarcastic" point, which is that the term gets thrown around a bit lightly sometimes... just put yourself in that situation and tell me you wouldn't have a spiteful reaction like they did...
EDITED_BY: arashi (1126905371)
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
So the cell phones were working, and the roads were passable. So the scope of the devastation I saw on CNN was an exaggeration ? New Orleans was the only area affected by Katrina, And the U.S. gov't could have simply driven into the city and evacuated the victims but chose not to. It' had nothing to do with incompetence or resources committed elsewhere. Gotcha.
Why do people assume just because a media outlet is labeled as alternative it speaks the truth while something labelled as mainstream is lying?
So you figure I don't know what's up with the truth because I watched the television coverage for days after the event. all those pictures I saw, were what? made up in Hollywood?
What does my being white have to do with accepting the credibility of the story? Oh, wait a minute, the writers must be Black, maybe, it doesn't say in the story.
I wonder in the govt's response would have been any different if the people stranded at the Superdome were poor white trash, or wealthy Asians. I haven't heard that question asked, anywhere, there always seems to be an assumption that the guys at the top were just reacting slowly because of race issues, maybe they were, but I'm not going to accept that as the truth because nobody's come out and and admitted that's what they were thinking. I'm not all that good at second guessing peoples motivations.
As to the Nazi thing. no I'm not that naive, of course I realize we wear a thin veneer of civility over a more primal, atavistic character, and if you think we, as a society are going to evolve away from that aspect of our psyches, I can only hope so, but I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.
The term does get used lightly, too often, e.g safety nazis , and it only serves to trivialse the whole concept ,The real nazis did attempt genocide, real genocide, and to draw parallels between them, and the N.O. situation puts the story into the categoty of a rant, nothing more.
So the cell phones were working, and the roads were passable. So the scope of the devastation I saw on CNN was an exaggeration ? New Orleans was the only area affected by Katrina, And the U.S. gov't could have simply driven into the city and evacuated the victims but chose not to. It' had nothing to do with incompetence or resources committed elsewhere. Gotcha.
Why do people assume just because a media outlet is labeled as alternative it speaks the truth while something labelled as mainstream is lying?
So you figure I don't know what's up with the truth because I watched the television coverage for days after the event. all those pictures I saw, were what? made up in Hollywood?
What does my being white have to do with accepting the credibility of the story? Oh, wait a minute, the writers must be Black, maybe, it doesn't say in the story.
I wonder in the govt's response would have been any different if the people stranded at the Superdome were poor white trash, or wealthy Asians. I haven't heard that question asked, anywhere, there always seems to be an assumption that the guys at the top were just reacting slowly because of race issues, maybe they were, but I'm not going to accept that as the truth because nobody's come out and and admitted that's what they were thinking. I'm not all that good at second guessing peoples motivations.
As to the Nazi thing. no I'm not that naive, of course I realize we wear a thin veneer of civility over a more primal, atavistic character, and if you think we, as a society are going to evolve away from that aspect of our psyches, I can only hope so, but I don't expect it to happen in my lifetime.
The term does get used lightly, too often, e.g safety nazis , and it only serves to trivialse the whole concept ,The real nazis did attempt genocide, real genocide, and to draw parallels between them, and the N.O. situation puts the story into the categoty of a rant, nothing more.
Pooh-Bah
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
2,364 posts
Location: austin,tx
Posted:
"So the cell phones were working, and the roads were passable. So the scope of the devastation I saw on CNN was an exaggeration ? New Orleans was the only area affected by Katrina, And the U.S. gov't could have simply driven into the city and evacuated the victims but chose not to. It' had nothing to do with incompetence or resources committed elsewhere. Gotcha."
well, if we can cripple the entire infrastructure of a country in a couple of days, yes, we can fly some c-130's over and give some people some bread and water filters.
"Why do people assume just because a media outlet is labeled as alternative it speaks the truth while something labelled as mainstream is lying?"
i don't label anything as "truth"... but i do label mainstream media as completely biased and unwilling to really offend corporate/gov't interests, and more often ready to support the agenda of the rich.
i bring up the race issue not to say that the gov't reacted slowly because of it even though it may have been true... (but not on a conscious level, as in a choice, but in an unconscious level, as in failure to make a choice.) but even the mainstream media is replete with accounts of how race affected the interactions of people in the crisis situation. it is not hard at all for me to believe the accounts of people being shot at, of groups organizing for safety being broken up.
and being white makes it hard for most people to see just how far racism goes, makes it hard for people to see that the shiny veneer of social propriety only goes so far in a "lord of the flies" situation.
accounts of gangs stealing food from elderly and children... the worst of people come out in situations like this. can we accept that our country's worst side came out here? to do so we have to listen to people saying that there was a bad side.
my point is, why do you use the obvious emotional reaction of someone who is wronged as an excuse to disbelieve the bad side?
"So the cell phones were working, and the roads were passable. So the scope of the devastation I saw on CNN was an exaggeration ? New Orleans was the only area affected by Katrina, And the U.S. gov't could have simply driven into the city and evacuated the victims but chose not to. It' had nothing to do with incompetence or resources committed elsewhere. Gotcha."
well, if we can cripple the entire infrastructure of a country in a couple of days, yes, we can fly some c-130's over and give some people some bread and water filters.
"Why do people assume just because a media outlet is labeled as alternative it speaks the truth while something labelled as mainstream is lying?"
i don't label anything as "truth"... but i do label mainstream media as completely biased and unwilling to really offend corporate/gov't interests, and more often ready to support the agenda of the rich.
i bring up the race issue not to say that the gov't reacted slowly because of it even though it may have been true... (but not on a conscious level, as in a choice, but in an unconscious level, as in failure to make a choice.) but even the mainstream media is replete with accounts of how race affected the interactions of people in the crisis situation. it is not hard at all for me to believe the accounts of people being shot at, of groups organizing for safety being broken up.
and being white makes it hard for most people to see just how far racism goes, makes it hard for people to see that the shiny veneer of social propriety only goes so far in a "lord of the flies" situation.
accounts of gangs stealing food from elderly and children... the worst of people come out in situations like this. can we accept that our country's worst side came out here? to do so we have to listen to people saying that there was a bad side.
my point is, why do you use the obvious emotional reaction of someone who is wronged as an excuse to disbelieve the bad side?
-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing
-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.
-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.
BRONZE Member
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Pooh-Bah
1,872 posts
Location: Canada
Posted:
Flying c-130s over the affected area and dropping supplies isn't what I was trying to get at when I wrote the sentence you quoted above. What I had a tough time believing was the very fact that the authors cell phones worked and apparently the roads were passable, when I was led to believe those weren't options available to anyone else.
It's not like I intended to read it as an article of fiction, it's just that the story left me with so many questions that I had no choice but to doubt it's authenticity, I would be more than happy to be proven wrong, after all I am Canadian and complaining about the American government has become somewhat of a national passtime as of late. ( starting in 2006. Americans are going to need a passport to return to the U.S. after visiting Canada, so I'm already bracing for a downturn in my tourist based business)
If you suppose, and probably quite rightly, that the mainstream media focuses on the interests of the rich, then why do you think they gave the situation in N.O. so much attention? Why didn't they focus on the displaced rich instead? sure the rich got some coverage, but I saw alot more on N.O. than I saw of people using their fishing boats to get back to their three story homes.
And being white, I know all about racisim, whites are constantly being accused of it, I have several times when race hasn't been an issue at all, and I've come to expect that sort of victim focus mentality should a conflict arise with someone who is not my race. I see it as a bullying tactic.
Yep, I think skin colour would play a large role in the formation of groups in a Lord of the Flies situation, but I think the term racisim would only apply if one group were larger than the other, and oppressed the smaller group.
I wonder why white people can't celebrate their whiteness in America. Whites always have to fall back on their European heritage if they want to refet to themselves as culturally distinct. You can't be a proud white guy, without being labelled a racist. This leaves me in a strange situation, see I'm adopted and I have no idea what my European heritage is
Anybody up for a North American white guys festival?, we could drink bad beer and listen to electric guitar. Now what do you think the reaction to a poster advertising an event like that would be? Somthing akin to advertising a clan rally I suspect.
Flying c-130s over the affected area and dropping supplies isn't what I was trying to get at when I wrote the sentence you quoted above. What I had a tough time believing was the very fact that the authors cell phones worked and apparently the roads were passable, when I was led to believe those weren't options available to anyone else.
It's not like I intended to read it as an article of fiction, it's just that the story left me with so many questions that I had no choice but to doubt it's authenticity, I would be more than happy to be proven wrong, after all I am Canadian and complaining about the American government has become somewhat of a national passtime as of late. ( starting in 2006. Americans are going to need a passport to return to the U.S. after visiting Canada, so I'm already bracing for a downturn in my tourist based business)
If you suppose, and probably quite rightly, that the mainstream media focuses on the interests of the rich, then why do you think they gave the situation in N.O. so much attention? Why didn't they focus on the displaced rich instead? sure the rich got some coverage, but I saw alot more on N.O. than I saw of people using their fishing boats to get back to their three story homes.
And being white, I know all about racisim, whites are constantly being accused of it, I have several times when race hasn't been an issue at all, and I've come to expect that sort of victim focus mentality should a conflict arise with someone who is not my race. I see it as a bullying tactic.
Yep, I think skin colour would play a large role in the formation of groups in a Lord of the Flies situation, but I think the term racisim would only apply if one group were larger than the other, and oppressed the smaller group.
I wonder why white people can't celebrate their whiteness in America. Whites always have to fall back on their European heritage if they want to refet to themselves as culturally distinct. You can't be a proud white guy, without being labelled a racist. This leaves me in a strange situation, see I'm adopted and I have no idea what my European heritage is
Anybody up for a North American white guys festival?, we could drink bad beer and listen to electric guitar. Now what do you think the reaction to a poster advertising an event like that would be? Somthing akin to advertising a clan rally I suspect.
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