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Page: 123
mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:So, Orbit was all like: "was some of the best spinning I'v ever seen. (and yes I've seen uk spinners)" in da BM thread.

And I was like: meditate

Obviously, this only applies to poi spinning, cos lets face it, america is crap at staff. wink

It just made me think of a couple of things like:

Poi doesn't have a well defined weird technical cousin, like we do. (Baton Twirlers) They can use martial art influences, but not as directly as we can. (At least I haven't heard of any actual poi based martial weapons, though rope-dart, and nunchucks can be both be applied somewhat.)

Secondly, unlike in poi land, we don't have annoying beacons of ancient technical mastery like Arashi. Thank the lord. Kyle Maclean is the closest thing we have. (And why can't he hurry up with that?)

But like uk poi land, we do have a continent of technical rivals: not america, but Australia. Unfortunately Australia seems to be populated with out of plane doubles spinning girlies doing girly australian doubles, and not advancing the technical envelope. Or at least, this is the analogy to uk-poi-land. Where we are haveily influenced and in fact part of the juggling (OMG quick change that to Object Manipulation!) scene, over in australia, they've realised that juggling is geeky and have gone for the dancing side. (Apart from ben-ja-men who have just closed his eyes to the world and decided to pose.) Or at least this is how i think it is like over in australia.

Was there any point to this post, apart from offending everyone on hop? No. I don't think so.

I'm off to go and organise the welcoming in of winter.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Disc0
annoying boy
Location: Sweden
Member Since: 3rd Oct 2004
Total posts: 160
Posted:scince i don't know what the point with your post is, nothing i write can be off-topic? right?

therefore:

i really don't want the winter to come.i remeber last winter and this summer. i compare them. i realise that winter SUCKS! (oops! my big mouth!)

no staffing. no poiing. not much of club juggling. very little ball juggling. WHAT AM I SUPPOSED TO DO?! I'M GONNA DIE!

so? was this off topic?


fire is just light and heat.
it's you friend!

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Sphear
Sphear

member

Member Since: 4th Sep 2005
Total posts: 60
Posted:Indoors man, indoors, but my ceiling is way too low... ouch...

Everything meets in the center...

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:right, its getting "cold" in the UK these days... (complaints of a whole 60F- was the conversion just wrong??!!)

Anyway, poi has chain whip..... er, think thats what its called... my memories getting fuzzy its been years..... and poi is after all in its origin somewhat martial arty, but not the way staff is yes!

I've known several world champion baton twirlers (??!! I don't know why!) and altho they are very good I don't like what they do as much as I like people who are more properly staffers... could just be me....

Anyway, my reply is about as pointless as your post, I should go practice again instead, ta!


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:'best spinning'
what a challenging term!

such a verdict can only be limited to just how comprehensive a person's experience of twirlers internationally, qualified by how they define what good fwirlage looks and feels like.
As ever, wisdom begins the moment you are quite aware about just how much you don't know.

To this thought, there are two lessons i have learned:

* someone's 'best' is another's 'too techinical'/'too dancey'/'not monkey-like enough!'

* attachment to the concept of being the best will cause emotional suffering. It is motivation that makes an action good ... if you twirl purely to impress others, your twirling-happiness is linked to their approval, then it is built on an unstable foundation. If you are motivated by the self-challenge and inspiration it gives to others, then how can you not fail to always benefit?
happiness is an easily amused person.
:eats pancake stuck on ceiling:


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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jonathan
enthusiast
Location: new zealand
Member Since: 24th Nov 2001
Total posts: 210
Posted:true words, o wise bender.

i thought poi were a weapon of themselves!?
i mean, try bashing someone with a hard bit of something heavy going fast on the end of a string and see wat happens.


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ben-ja-men
ben-ja-men

just lost .... evil init
Location: Adelaide
Member Since: 12th Jun 2003
Total posts: 2474
Posted:ubblol

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourself, who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous and talented? Who are you NOT to be?

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:meg was referring to the 7 section chain whip, i believe.

please refer to the double chain whip videos availale for download in the flexible weapons section of the *great* wushucentral site.

http://www.wushucentral.com/videos/v.php/miscellaneous/library/flexible#ifckf_26_double_chain_whip
br>
no direct linking to the videos themselves, plz.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:err....technical rivalry? we tend to be normally too lazy to think about rivalry... that is unless it comes to sport that is... which is something that i wont be dwelling upon at present due to obvious cricket related reasons ubblol

"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:meg was now? tongue

good words, nonetheless, bender... smile

but then you always have them. i sound like such a fan girl some days. but your three section performance (from years ago tongue) rocked my world. my poor little no-one-does-staff-here world. tongue


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:aww, anyone is lucky if someone as thougthful as you listened to their words!

It's sweet here in melb, I can only speak from my own experience but the hippy and circus communities here have fostered a great individuality amongst twirlers. watching people like Pyroptix practice really pushed my expectations on what technical wizardry can be done with doubles.

then again, nothing really compares to the fwirlage diversity of HoP!


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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wing
member
Location: New Haven, CT
Member Since: 15th Mar 2005
Total posts: 52
Posted:Written by: mcp



Obviously, this only applies to poi spinning, cos lets face it, america is crap at staff.




Or...maybe none of the un-crap staffers in america make videos and upload them to hop???

No really, I suspect you're right. I bow to you maniac staffers over there. I just videoed myself for the first time last night, and it was crap. smile


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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I haven't reread what I wrote. Cos I can't be bothered and I didn't really put a whole lot of thought into it, I was just a bit bored.

But after that, I thought up a new analogy for technical vs dancey flow and manipulation vs dance shenanigan.

So If I were a ballet dancer, and I had abused my joints from birth so that I could achieve the most beautiful lines the human body can achieve, while standing on my toes, when I look at breakers or music video dancers, (hip hop dancers I guess) I would be like: "Well that would be nice if they were straight and doing it on point." And somethings I would just not do. [I think I would quite like to be a ballet dancer, years of training would really give me a elitist high ground.]

Whereas b-boys and funk dancers go for a completely different approach to the lines and shapes a body can make.

And then liquid dancers go for a style based on illusion.

Oh I'm lost my thread of thought once again. Darn it. Oh well. It'll come back sometime. I just need a doggy snack to lure it...

It was something to do with tech vs dance right? And how ballet dance might not be to everyones taste, but that it was engineered for a purpose and that you shouldn't care if they have their own body gesture ballet language? No that wasn't it...


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:i'm starting to come to the idea someone may be nearly-as-random as bender....

followed the thought nonetheless

ballet and staff, there's two things which shouldn't go together...
Now I'm sure I've challenged someone, send me a video if you ever make it work! tongue


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Orbit
Orbit

enthusiast

Member Since: 17th Dec 2003
Total posts: 270
Posted:zzz... I thought I'd qualified my statement quite a bit by saying "some of the best"... leave it to Meg to turn it into a nationalistic battle.

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:RE UK staff vs Australian staff

I think there is simply a difference between the emphasis placed (on average) in each scene. The Aussie scene is mostly music driven, with emphasis on dance, movement and musicality, and the english scene is mostly juggling driven. In terms of driven Im talking about the the influences of the people whose styles are influential. Obviously there are as many different styles as there are people who have picked up a staff, but this is my observation from travelling to meet firey types in both countries.

Another related big difference is that there are MUCH less people in Oz doing contact, and many more still doing (I guess what is considered in Europe and the UK at least) more traditional hand on handle style twirling. So if you judge all twirling by workign out the proportion of time spent with the staff not in hand per burn, you will always rank Oz lower.

On a more personal note; characterising me as;

"out of plane doubles spinning girlies doing girly Australian doubles, and not advancing the technical envelope"

at first slightly angered me, but then I thought the only part that was inaccurate was the out of plane bit (although its been a while, I dont think the spinning in my last video could be called out of plane) smile Thanks for indirectly reminding me that I'd rather not be concerned with how others view my twirling, only how I perceive it. Its wonderfully emancipating, especially in the light of the competitive perspective that seems to have inspired this thread. To paraphrase the ever wise Bender; sooner or later an externalised motivation for improvement will lead to disappointment.


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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Dentrassi
Dentrassi

ZORT!
Location: Brisbane
Member Since: 9th Apr 2003
Total posts: 3044
Posted:yeah what josh said.... he is clearly infinitely more eloquent than i can be bothered to be this morning... too many big words makes my head hurt before my morning caffeine hit kicks in.... ubbrollsmile
see you soon mate hug


"Here kitty kitty...." - Schroedinger.

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-sandy-
-sandy-

old hand
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 12th Jul 2004
Total posts: 716
Posted:I think Meg is just a bit fed up of being the one of the main people to bring out new moves over here, and what with winter coming there will be a lot less going on for the next few months. Much less learning all round me thinks.
Unless i can aquire a nice big warm space, hmmm.....
Any one know of any in the Birmingham area?


"Don't do it naked!"

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:i do love apples and oranges.
they are lovely in their own way.
depends on your tastes, really.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Gnor
Gnor

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Perth
Member Since: 31st Mar 2003
Total posts: 5814
Posted:Meg we sent Jed over....

Did you bludgeon some stuff into him??

Tell him to make new stuff happen...in a few months.


Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?

Im in a lonely battle with the world with a fish to match the chip on my shoulder. Gnu in Binnu in a cnu

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Yeah, whoever said that I can agree with it. I do get bored of just writing massive rants about staff moves and getting very little in return. I kinda thought that people would go away and learn masses of weird variations on them that I had never even considered and then tell me about them. But that never happened. Maybe they all just need more time.

Orbit: Sorry, dude, It's Arashi's bad influence on me.

Josh: Yeah, I quite liked that sentence, which summed up a really prejudiced view of australia for me. I know they're good spinners in australia dude! Look at knox and you and well maybe ben and probably a good hundred others! But blatent stereotypying is just such fun! Gotta say, I really liked your two videos. I think I actually prefered snakehandling just cos you don't often see such nice club swinging. You're style is nice cos it seems so meditative, and not exactly girly dude!

But even with non contact, traditional spinning, and throws and such. Nothing super technical seems to happen in other places. Simian has a super technical line of single staff non contact madness. I mean technical single staff non-contact, is that not an oxymoron? Well nope.

I sometimes wish I came from a dancey spinning culture. (But then I slap myselve and curse Arashi.) I'll get there eventually. But it might not be pretty along the way.

More so than not, I just want to know if people seem to agree that the idiocy of the british *TECHNICAL!* attitude is because of the links with juggling, links which seems to be not present in other countries. Or is it something else? I mean it's certainly not because we have strong links with baton twirlers, cos we don't.

Okay, this post wasn't so random. I won't let it go to my head.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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ZeeBoo
ZeeBoo

member
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 10th Aug 2004
Total posts: 167
Posted:Written by: Kyrian

ballet and staff, there's two things which shouldn't go together...
Now I'm sure I've challenged someone, send me a video if you ever make it work! tongue



Right off to get a tutu and some tights in time for Bristol Juggling Convention anyone got a camera and willing to join in for the dance of the sugar plum fairys? wink


Just because I'm an adult doesn't make me responsible.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: meg
I mean technical single staff non-contact, is that not an oxymoron? Well nope.



eek

at last!

at last i get meg to agree that there is such a thing as technical non-contact staff!

umm

only now she's also saying technical is a bad thing?

mad wink


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I'm not saying technical is a bad thing. I'm saying ONLY technical is a bad idea. But not even that, only super smooth technical with some level changes and nice movement would be lovely, Standing still and expecting the staff movements to entertain alone is BAD.

Speaking of which. Dance. Dancing with a staff, or dance, where you happen to be holding a staff? COs I prefer the former.


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:This goes back to the old... is it boy, spinning fire, or fire, twirling around boy argument i used to have... with a wonderful gay friend over some very hot (and very decent!) spinners in our area.....

If you're hot enough, its "fire spinnning around", always, sorry tongue But there will always be some subset of the audience who doesn't find you hot and thus can enjoy your show for what it is.

I think if you dance enough, same idea, its always going to be "dancing happening to hold a staff"

If you were asking which is better.... i prefer the former as well. But both can be good. whichever the person does better is prolly better for them to do...

I'm done with stupid tautologies for the day i hope....


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Pyrolific
Returning to a unique state of Equilibrium
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Member Since: 10th Jan 2001
Total posts: 3288
Posted:Well I reckon what you need to to is...go travelling. Find a quiet beach someplace in Thailand or India, and get some perspective on what it is you are doing. Even if you dont see anything mindblowing in the way of twirling, you will probly see what you want out of it. I dunno - it works for me smile

Building opinions on differences between nations based on HOP learning and second hand information (even if what you think is pretty accurate), has less impact on your primary perspective I find.

And besides, even if you dont learn anything amazing in the way of twirling from other people, you will have an amazing time I reckon smile Go to Burning Man, come to Aus and do the twirling tour (but dont forget Adelaide like most do :P) go to New Zealand (not that I've been there - Im intending to tho).

Josh


--
Help! My personality got stuck in this signature machine and I cant get it out!

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:I'm always gutted I don't get to go to burning man.

And I'm probably going to be double gutted when bluecat flys off to australia and america and does numerous uber workshops while I stay in scotland...

I have considered giving up my slack lifestyle to get a job just to earn enough money to go to australia... And I'd better do it sooner rather than later with the way oil shenanigans are going...

<pines>


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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Kyle McLean
Kyle McLean

Living it up
Location: Brisbane/Berlin
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2003
Total posts: 364
Posted:Meg, I get the impression that you were (mostly?) joking in terms of the nationalistic one-up-man-ship slant to your post. Keeping in this spirit I'd like to throw in my two cents. IMHO staffing uberness is really simply a reflection of geopolitical winds and the short of the long is: look out for China.

The first post had me falling off my chair laughing meg. I know you were joking, but If I am supposed to become some sort of Arashi like beacon for staff technique then I can only think that something has gone very, very wrong in the world of staff eek ubblol

On a more serious note:
Written by: mcp

I do get bored of just writing massive rants about staff moves and getting very little in return.



How much did you learn by writing it all down in the fist place? Seems like it would be hard to write such a prodigal amount without quite a lot of ideas and connections being made in the ol' head. Could this tie back to an idea of enjoying the process or way rather then focusing on outside goals?

Written by: mcp

More so than not, I just want to know if people seem to agree that the idiocy of the british *TECHNICAL!* attitude is because of the links with juggling, links which seems to be not present in other countries.


I don't get out enough to speak for OZ, but I know this to be very untrue for brisvegas at least. I think the only difference is in the nature of the juggling scenes.
Speaking for myself, far from turning away from juggling, my play time is being consumed by it. I'd say the last few months have had about an 8:1 juggle/twirl ratio for me. While this might not reflect anything broader I felt the need to respond to madam's blatant sterotyping.
wink hug ubbangel


Contact without dance is like sex without wiggling.
A) it does feel as good
B) it does not look as good on film

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:Man if you see the video of Faithless's release of insomnia, that has some scary (I assume chinese) formation stuff in it. I wann find the video that stuff came from...

Yeah, but you becoming arashi, it would be funny wouldn't it? biggrin

Yeah, I do notice things I'd missed before and make new ideas come out of writing things down, but that all requires thinking, something I'm trying to avoid, which is why people telling me moves seems so appealing.

I dunnoe though, I think my obsession with really hard technical moves has gone to sleep. This thread must be a wee obtituary for it. It seems the path laid out for me now, is making up cheese and funny dance moves with a stick. redface


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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mcp
mcp

Flying Water Muppet
Location: Edin-borrow.
Member Since: 20th May 2003
Total posts: 5276
Posted:On another note: I'm still trying to get away from the shadow of technical mastery the baton twirlers cast over us. Anyone else feel that way?

Sometimes I find it dispiriting that baton twirlers are extremely good at spinning, but have to do these competitions that force them to do very unelegant things. (In my opinion.) It other words "They use their powers for evil!"


"the now legendary" - Kaskade
"the still legendary" - Kaskade

I spunked in my friend's aquarium and the fish ate it. I love all fish. Especially the pink ones. They are my bitches. - Anon.

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simian
simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London
Member Since: 11th Oct 2002
Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by: mcp
On another note: I'm still trying to get away from the shadow of technical mastery the baton twirlers cast over us. Anyone else feel that way?



one of the reasons i kinda lost interest in contact staff. That and all the horrible wobbly almost horizontal planes.

batonster's technical mastery mainly just relates to gymnastics and contact, dunnit?


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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