-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
quote:Ray, the Constitution says that there is no national religion. It doesn't matter what the majority of the country is. In fact, John Adams specifically warned against the idea of a "tyrrany of the majority" whereby the minority's rights are completely suppressed because the majority wants things a certain way.
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
Mike, the national religion is Christianity, meaning the majority of the population consider themselves Christion. So... look at it from a political point of view, do you please the masses or do you please the minority? If the masses will get you re-elected then you please them, that is if you want to be re-elected.
-Mike
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella
A buckuht n a hooze! -Valura
Geologists do it in the dirt................
Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]
quote:Basic point of this is that, while faith is without doubt a powerful force capable of miraculous results, it's not something you should mindlessly depend on. I think that's the general opinion ppl are trying to get across, not that faith is impotent , but that it is not the only option . The Bible (New Century Version) seems to agree with this.
Matthew 4:5-7
Then the devil led Jesus to the holy city of Jerusalem and put him on a high place of the Temple. The devil said, "If you are the Son of God, jump down, because it is written in the Scriptures: 'He has put his angels in charge of you. They will catch you in their hands so that you will not hit your foot on a rock.'" (Psalm 91:11-12)
Jesus answered him, "It also says in the Scriptures, 'Do not test the Lord your God.'" (Deuteronomy 6:13)
What hits the fan is not evenly distributed.
quote:Ray, honey, it happens every day. Does the entire U.S> want to go bomb Irag? Does the entire U.S. think that the "War On Drugs" should even exist? Does the entire U.S. think that killing American civilans is terrorism while killing Iraqi civilians is just collatertal damage?
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
I would like to see one person force their beliefs on the "ENTIRE" U.S.
quote:Does this help you understand what i am so upset about?
The birthcontrol pill thing I wasnt refering to, and that I did not know thanks for that bit of info.
quote:Welcome to my world. My beliefs are attacked every day.
Yes the way I see it, an attack on my beliefs is an attack on me.
quote:Nope. No, it's not. There are prob more people who define themselves as Christian whether they practise or not, but this is NOT a Christian country. There are more females than males, is this a female country? There are more whites than blacks, does that make this a white country?
Mike, the national religion is Christianity
quote:But is getting re-elected more important than serving the ENTIRE populace of the nation, whose taxes are paying your salary? Politics say yes, the Hippocratic Oath says no.
If the masses will get you re-elected then you please them, that is if you want to be re-elected.
We got the MikeZ in the house, woot!Glue the ham, hat baby!
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
Currently on the right side up of the world.
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
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If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
Currently on the right side up of the world.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
quote:Amen Sister
Originally posted by Flynt:
There comes a certain point in time, where if you are to remain being CIVIL with someone, you will just have to say, "alright! i accept that this is your opinion, as i have my own." Personally, i think this thread has gone well OVER this point, and its getting quite a nasty tension again.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake. You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
quote:I am going back an taking another look at my first post, how exactly is that above (also known as "the sixth post") off topic?
Originally posted by Raymund Phule:
As a doc he can run his practice as he wants inside certain guide lines. Now I am guessing that his practice is successfull, so I dont see what the big deal is. Just becuase he recomends things that are different, doesnt mean that he should be looked at with such disgust! When you have acupuncture and the "here eat this root" type medicine, why is it so hard for people to believe that maybe there is something to the Bible?
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.
Meh
We got the MikeZ in the house, woot!Glue the ham, hat baby!
quote:Kali -
Beauty is the conscious sum of all our perversions.-Salvador DaliHope without action is hopeless.
Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
If we as members of the human race practice meditation, we can transcend our fear, despair, and forgetfulness. Meditation is not an escape. It is the courage to look at reality with mindfulness and concentration. Thich Nhat Hanh
quote:Sex education is mostly "abstinence oly programs at the minute. And Bush has ofte talked about how those are the only ones that should get funding.
Origially posted by Celeste:
And does this mean that sex education will once again only be based on abstinance? Didn't anyone realize that it didn't work the last time?
quote:Amen. I keep being scared that i should get out before i can't leave. But at the same time i have a misplaced sense of loyalty... after all the system did't fail me if it did't exactly work ... no, actually most of the system was shit but i beat it. Had one advantage, used it to beat teh rest.
Originally posted by MikeGiny:
Also, M.D.'s practicing as mainstream physicians should not be using faith healing. Or herbs. I won't use either. I will refer my patients to herbalists if I see fit, or to faith healers if I see fit, for that matter.
This doctor's practice was not terribly successful, in fact. He's scantily credentialed and is strongly opposed by the AMA.
And the fact that this sort of thing is getting into our government is yet another reason why I want to leave the country.
quote:I think MI does.
Originally posted byy Toneman:
How many other states allow peeps to drive with their hunting rifles in the back window of their pickup?
quote:Ray, you take thigs so far out of proportion i can't eve belive it sometimes.
Origially posted by Ray:
The populous on this board is so open minded when it comes to whichcraft and Wicca but when someone mentions Christianity they are right winged hate full spawns of Satan.
quote:not just you.
Originally posted by NYC:
[Also, I kinda frown upon the sentence "Dom, your a moron" not only because it's spelled wrong but because it's a direct personal attack. I know that Dom can take it but it's something that I hate to see on HoP. But that's just me...]
quote:I generally find that teachers have to ot say aything about their beliefs for fear of getting sued, altho oddly christia teachers i some districts get away with it, and in otehr districts only christian teachers can't. As to udermining the very reason this country was founded.....perhaps... but i'd like to pretend the religious freedom thing meant that, and not just "freedom of christianity." is that ok? cause that's what's the words say.
Originally posted by Ray:
Wow, NYC I understand what you mean I really do. I am sure that you do not bring your views on there is no truth into the classroom, not only would it be unprofessional, but it would solidify my facorite quote from Thomas Jefferson, "The philosiphy in the school room in one gerneration will be the philosiphy of the government in the next." If you were to teach the no truth no religion philosiphy of yours you would undermind the very reason that this country was founded.
quote:Yup. I agree.
Originally posted by MikeGiny:
Death need not be the forcing point of religion, Ray. Health, not necessarily death, also makes a great threat.
With this man in charge of the reproductive health division of the FDA he has the ability to force his religious beliefs on an entire nation, and that chills me to the bone.
quote:Could you articulate these circumstances? I'm just curious.
Oriiginally posted by MikeGinny:
Because in my religion, abortion is not only permitted under certain circumstances, it's required under certain circumstances.
quote:No, but it was founded on christianity and based on christianity. So it's about as close as ur likely to get.
Originally posted by MikeGinny:
And this is not a Christian nation
quote:Yeah, but he can make it impossible to get stuff legally. That would suck, wouldn't it?
Originally posted by Ray:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With this man in charge of the reproductive health division of the FDA he has the ability to force his religious beliefs on an entire nation, and that chills me to the bone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to see one person force their beliefes on the "ENTIRE" US. The US is so diversified that no one ideal can be accepted by everyone. Not even the ideal on what freedome is.
quote:Religious minorities have historically faired better under muslim governments tha christian ones.
Originally posted by Ray:
How is it relevent? When quoted out of context like that it seems a rather unrelevent statement. I was refering to how some religions have the tendoncy to force their religion.
quote:He has a point, ad it's a good one.
Originally posted by Aardvark:
Examples please. Want the converse? The spanish inquisition. The phrase conversion by the sword was pretty much defined there.
I have a fairly decent grasp of middle eastern history. Give me examples, dates, people. Not to nitpick, but you made a sweeping statement. Support it.
quote:er.... if all you wat is teh us, then i wouldn't suggest christian vs. all non-christian hate crimes.... that's prolly a worse record than usig the world!
Origially posted by Ray:
Ardvark, what does the spanish inquisition have to do with the US, my history is a bit ruff but was the Americas even found when that was happening?
quote:
Origially posted bt Aardvark:
The parts of a house aren't self replicating
quote:It's in te words. At that point, I don't thik intent matters. (see some previous remark i made)
Origially posetd by MikeGinny:
Regardless of what the majority of people in this country are, the Constitution says that laws should not respect establishments of religion, nor should they prohibit the free exercise of religion.
quote:Actually, you can't. There's some very christian thoughts and ideals i our government. Torah? sure, go ahead. But Q'uran? I don't think so. I don't know eough about these to quote, but there's a lot of journalistic talk about imposing christian/jewish based ideals o other coutries right now.
Originally posted by MikeGinny:
Making laws that are consistent with only one or a few religions would violate this clause. You might argue that the Constitution and the laws of the land are based on the Bible, but I could just as well argue that the laws are based on Torah, Talmud, Q'uran, or the laws of Hamurabi(sp?).
quote:Too true.
Originally posetd by MikeGiy:
In other words, according to the Constitution, religion is religion, and Christianity shouldn't get special dispensation just because the majority of people in the country happen to think it's the "right religion."
quote:Lucky lucky girl. I hoep everything is ok tho?
Origially posted by FNF:
In the last few weeks I have valued beyond anything I could imagine having a doctor I can talk to and trust. A doctor who gives me all the options, not just the ones he agrees with.
quote:wow. quite a post there. but u have a point. not, per se, today. but it took us over 1400 years to have a society as good as the romans again.... i'd like to see more of ur thoughts o this.
Origially posted by STone:
The reason I fear extremists like Dr. Hager being appointed to positions of power and influence is because, I think, it heralds a new era of darkness. An era, when all medical advancements will be swept aside by ignorance, and well-meaning but ultimately misguided beliefs.
From what I can gather (and please correct me if I’m wrong about these assumptions) there has been a substantial rise in acceptance of creationism by some communities is the States. Well-meaning creationists object to evolution being taught in schools. They get elected to school boards, and evolution is removed from the curriculum. Next thing you know creationism is being taught instead of science.
There may well be truth in the quote from Thomas Jefferson: "The philosophy in the school room in one generation, will be the philosophy of the government in the next." But its only a half truth. I think the Jesuit’s (an educational order of catholic priests) said it better with: “Give me a child at the at the age of seven, and I’ll have them for life.” The point being, who really influences the philosophy of the government.
Without science and an unbiased education system we will slowly slip into another Dark Age. An era where fact will be replaced by myth because there are no facts in creationism, just belief. Diseases like the plague, TB, whooping cough and polio will start to reappear and the age will be black for a millennium.
quote:what about biology?
Origially posted by Ray:
Science is not bad, there is nothing wrong with science, infact it was one of my favorite subjects in school. (bet you can guess what my least favorite one was too ) Teach science, NYC keep on teaching Chemistry. Those things are good. With out science we would not be having this conversation!
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
quote:Guessing at this I think she meant that persons of different religions other than Muslim while under Muslim rule have fared better than persons of different religions under Christian rule.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ray:
How is it relevent? When quoted out of context like that it seems a rather unrelevent statement. I was refering to how some religions have the tendoncy to force their religion.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Religious minorities have historically faired better under muslim governments tha christian ones.
quote:He can not make something that is currently leagle, illeagle without some sort of committy, it is called checks and balances.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Ray:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
With this man in charge of the reproductive health division of the FDA he has the ability to force his religious beliefs on an entire nation, and that chills me to the bone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would like to see one person force their beliefes on the "ENTIRE" US. The US is so diversified that no one ideal can be accepted by everyone. Not even the ideal on what freedome is.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, but he can make it impossible to get stuff legally. That would suck, wouldn't it?
Some Jarhead last night: "this dumb a$$ thinks hes fireproof"
May your staff spin fast and your poi always miss your balls.
quote:Yup, that's where i was going. I think NYC teaches Chem too. I'm ot going to try and argue about evolution with you, i just wanted to see if you accepted biology as good.
Originally posted by Ray:
I however think I know where you ment to go with that last comment, Bioligy is scince I have 1 heart 2 lungs 11 fingers and toes (so I didnt fare well at Bio hehe)
quote:I am Thor god of thunder! Rarh!
I want you to go to your lab, start with nothing and create something only using nothing. When you do that I will crown you as god, until then it cant happen and nothing else is right!
quote:I wasn't really referring to the times of the bible either, but i admit within the last 30 years muslim countries have become much less tolerant places to live. I still don't think there's aywhere near the scale of violence you suggested, but I would have to ask Aardvark about that as I have little knowledge on recet middle eastern history.
The year is 2002 we have different societies now, the way we view things is different than from times the Bible speeks of. Is that not correct?
quote:I agree, but what is this relavnet to?
If you look at something forgine (sp) and judge it by your standerds then it will always look harsh or wrong, silly or just plain stupid.
quote:Nope. That's unconstitutional, as it happens.
Kirian, one of the towns next to my hote town called Muleshoe Texas, banned prayer IN ANY FORM. Is that fair to someone who wants to pray that there are no injouries or everyone has good sportsmanship?
quote:sorry bout that.
Man I just lost about half an hour of rebutle when I hit the wrong set of keys. If I wasnt so angry I would continue.
Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive
Shalom VeAhavah
New Hampshire has a point....
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