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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Okay guys..... don't let me down here!! I need advice on a sticky situation that I'm in.

Story goes like this:

Early this year, before I broke up with my partner of 7 years, let's call him Steve, a lovely friend of mine (we'll call her Miss F) took out a $5000 loan so Steve could but a fancy shmancy mountain bike. Riding is his passion and we were never able to afford a bike like that, and it was effecting our relationship negatively, cos Steve was obsessing about not having anything, whereas I managed to get most things I wanted (what I wanted never cost $5000! anyway). I was working in a great job at the time, had a nice Jeep, but was living pay check to pay check cos Steve and I were bad with money.

So Miss F, being a true and beautiful friend to both Steve and I, took out a personal loan in her name and gave Steve the money, to be repayed in monthly installments directly to the bank. He had a new and pretty bike within 24hrs and his life was vastly improved. This was in January.

In February I broke it off with Steve after suddenly realising that I was limiting myself to so much of what the world has to offer by being in that relationship. It broke his heart and turned his world upside down. I was liberated and happy.

HOWEVER, each and every month Steve hasn't paid the loan repayment on time and has had to be chased and harassed by Miss F and me. It's gotten to the point where's he's given every excuse under the sun as to why he couldn't pay on time blah blah and now doesn't answer our phone calls or respond to SMS or voicemail. He now hasn't paid for 2 months, and Miss F went to his work on the weekend where he PROMISED to get the repayments up to date by Monday. It's now Wednesday and he still hasn't paid: Miss F is getting harassed by her bank and doesn't have the money to cover it, so I just had to pay it. I'm really pissed about that cos I was left with enough debt at the end of the relatioship and am only started to scratch the surface of it now. However, I feel a massive sense of responsibility in this situation, cos my friend gave the money out of an act of friendship to me to help me in my relationship with Steve....

Anyway, we want to demand the bike from him and sell it to repay the loan. However, he's not just going to give it up, and I don't think we have a legal leg to stand on, because although the loan is in Miss F's name, it was personal loan with no description, and the bike is in Steve's name.

I'm really tired of dealing with this situation. I just want him out of my life - he's disappointed me so much and proven that he has no respect or sense of responsibility time and time again. I've paid my karma for the wrongs I did in the breakup of that relationship, but why the hell am I STILL paying for his bills?

HELP!? before I go knee-cap the bastard.


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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:my advice hon: go see a lawyer! seriously. You probably have a better claim than you think, because all you need, is that he admits miss F gave him the money, and he was to pay it back. Because YOU are a witness to this, you have a legal claim to get the bike back, to sell it and pay off the debt.

lots of *hugz* what an aweful situation to be in! Dont quit harassing him tho, because as long as you do, you will still have a chance of getting that money back.


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Cassandra
Cassandra

Froggie ... Ribbit !!!
Location: Back in Paris... for now !
Member Since: 8th Jun 2001
Total posts: 4224
Posted:Dunno what to say except that I am so sorry to read about this. it really breaks my heart for you and Miss F.

Hope people will be more usefull I can just say Keep cool and IMO the lawyer thing is not a bad idea. selling the bike will never cover money cause it is now second hnd..; carefull with that one ...

i'll just sit here and hug you and make you some crepe and love you dearly

shine on
Cassandra


"I want brown bread... no, that is diesel oil..."
"So I was raised in Europe, where History comes from ..."
"NON !!! La Plume de mon oncle n est pas Bingibangibungi !!!"

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Glåss
Glåss

The Ministry of Manipulation
Location: Bristol
Member Since: 8th Nov 2001
Total posts: 2523
Posted:arse
I go with flynt.
It'll all be alright in the end,
I don't know how, but it always is.


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pozee
old hand
Location: san diego
Member Since: 27th Jul 2001
Total posts: 886
Posted:a small charge of high explosives can take care of any problem. just kidding. tough spot lady. wish i could help. just keep your head up...

anyone got a light?

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Dom
Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK
Member Since: 19th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3009
Posted:Ooooo, that's a bad one.
Messy relationships are very sad. I don't understand how people go from lover to bitter enemy often just because people change. He must be very bitter to be screwing over a friend and an ex and I he sounds too far gone and wraped up in himself to be reached logically.

I third Flynt's suggestion.

Hope this works out OK for you all.


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Puk
Puk

Sweet talented nutter
Location: Brisbane Oz
Member Since: 3rd Aug 2002
Total posts: 2615
Posted:OOOOOhhhh Bugger!, I'd go with flynt even though I'd be tempted to knee cap him!.

Anyperson can acheive anything if they don't have fear in their heart!.


that shrewd and knavish sprite

Called Robin Good Fellow ; are you not he that is frighten of the maidens of the villagery - fairy

I am the merry wander of the night -puk

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:That sucks. I wouldn't get a lawyer before you find out what a lawyer will cost. If you have any friends that are lawyers you can always use their names to make him think you've got a lawyer. Getting the courts involved is a whole different headache. I'd gather evidence first and exhaust every avenue. If you can get him to admit that he owes you money via email or whatever, you can use that in court. Also, if you have any record that he had been making payments you can use that as well...

I hate when people state the obvious but you really needed to get a lawyer BEFORE you made the loan to keep the loan legal. Or some written agreement. I've been shopping for cars lately and in dealing with shady car salesmen some internet site had some good advice, despite what someone might say... "If it's not in writing, it doesn't exist" (Good advice for Fire Gigs too!) Any loan is a gift. And don't every loan more money that you can afford to lose without getting grumpy.

Don't let it consume you. If you have a bad day, go harass him at work. If you have a good day, don't even think about him.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Fire_Emanator
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 14th Aug 2002
Total posts: 96
Posted:I never lend anyone money I want back...Money is one thing that can screw a relationship badly!

The sensible thing is to see a lawyer, but I guess that would cost a heap of dosh- probably more than 5K! You could go to a debt collector...which will also cost, but i think you can get them to bung the cost on top of what is owed.

If it was me, I'd kneecap him, but you might try tracking him down with Miss F there, and probably a small contingent of muscles, and simply remove the bike from him, using the aforementioned muscle contingent to persuade him gently that it is in his interests to be nice about it. Thats what they do when you misss a car payment...he has done the same and should lose the merchandise. You may lose on the sale of the bike, but at least it will all be over. I would say that a 5K bike is going to be looked after quite well, so the condition should be good!
(Jesus a 5k bike, mine was $300, surely he could have started small- especially with someone else's money!)
WHAT A SCUMBAG...JESUS H...I feel for you, it is a nasty situation especially after 7 good years.
Good luck!


Free your mind and your ass will follow!

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:thanks guys.... yeah - lawyer is a bit more money than we have; I could ask relatives if they can ask their associates, but I really don't want my family saying "O - never take out a loan for anyone... blah blah"

Lesson is learnt.

Fire_Emanator has the plan we had in mind, bit of persuasive looking muscles and a clear demand of what needs to happen = give us the bike, or lose your little finger and all your dignity.

I think Miss F is going to go to his work tomorrow night and do this, so I'll let you know the outcome. Like he said, even if the sale of the bike yields less than the loan amount, at least its over and I can fully move on, armed with my new found knowledge and experience.

Should that all fail, I will seek legal advice. Such a shame we don't have our own Judge Judy in Australia!

and yeah - the last thing I wanted was for Steve and I friendship to turn to crap over something as futile as money. When I left him I went to great lengths to ensure that - I left him with virtually everything we had ever bought together (all furniture, music, household goods) and even gave him $1000 cash to help him deal with the sudden and massive reduction in joint income. I saw my parents get divorced when I was younger and was deeply affected the sad amounts of negativity caused by arguing over money. Thought I could avoid being like that, but c'est la vie!

[ 06 November 2002, 16:03: Message edited by: flash fire ]


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:eek! everyones agreeing with me.... did i wake up on the smart side of the bed today?

I agree with NYC! hooray, but you could also do a little bit of research in the library in regards to civil court, and see what you can find out, alas tho, i think NYC is right, that you will need to have something on paper...

*sigh* judge judy, i was going to say, i wish we had her...

remember! when all else fails, pour brake fluid on his car...... hehehehe *evil chuckle*

Flashtastic, check your pms sweetheart! xoxo


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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BurningByron
member
Location: Australia
Member Since: 10th May 2002
Total posts: 340
Posted:Since you are in Australia I'm fairly sure you can get legal aid! By what it sounds like you arent rolling in a swimming pool of money so you should be able to get the free legal advice no problem. GET IT!!!

Because there are two of you guys VS his word, it means you have an advantage BUT what will get you the money back is that he didnt have the money to finance the bike in the 1st place thus it will be impossible for him to provide a bank statement showing a withdrawal of $5000 or a cheque receit or anything while your friend can. Also another big part to it is that she can provide bank statements showing his repayments BEFORE the relationship went sour! You can also get more witnesses as to him saying something like "OK!! I'll get you the money by Friday." Or something like that. Better still (I'm not sure how legal this is but...) video or tape record him saying it.

You can get the money back because a civil court will take the side of the person who is "Most Likely" telling the truth. Unlike criminal courts which are "Beyond reasonalble doubt".

A verbal argreement is seen as a binding agreement within the courts.

Watch a couple of episodes of "Judge Judy". If you got her as a judge, she would crap all over him!


HOW TO FLY 101:
step 1. Throw your self at the ground.
step 2. Miss.

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Also, keep in mind that taking it to court is a further escalation of the anger within the relationship. If you can nickle and dime into paying out the money slowly, you're better off.

And everyone needs to stop agreeing with me and start come visiting me.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Flynt
Flynt

Intrepid Penguin

Member Since: 12th May 2002
Total posts: 5635
Posted:*starts saving for her plane ticket right now...*

Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Hey Flash Fire That sucks. he is basically forcing the both of you to nag him & chase him, which isn't fair cos I am sure you didn't want it to end like that.

Anyhow, search for Legal Centres on the yellowpages, you may be able to find an advisory service near you. I think you can also get in touch with the following:

Consumer Credit Legal Centre
Level 1/ 72-80 Cooper St Surry Hills NSW 2010
Ph: (02) 9212 4111

They should be able to advise you on action you can take yourself, including formal letters, talking to the financial instituation, and advice on legal remedies.

I hope that helps.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Hey Flash

Ring Kingsford Legal Centre - they have free advice lines a few afternoons a week, where you can ring in for basic advice.

Check your pm's for the other suggestion.
Ade


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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:Flash, it saddens me greatly to hear of this.
My last job was in Legal/IT for the debt collection department of unnamed investment company. What I can tell you in the context of their debt collection procedures:
for a suit involving $5,000 in arears, the defendant is sued for usually ~$615 court costs + actual outstanding debt.(and interest if applicable)a tangible written agreement supports the clearest outcomes (it was sooo depressing seeing the intimate ruining of strangers' lives on file) - failing that, the onus unfortunately is left to you the plaintiff to prove the defendant's debt. Perhaps the dudes at the legal centre can help prepare an affadavit on their loverly letterheads.VERY often simply the growl provokes resolution; prepare a valid court summons (i have stack of templates if ya want 'em) to sue, cus part of the percedure to serve is to add the instructions for settlement (it's usually soon after the 'court costs+ amount of debt' total!) and it's often the offer they can't refuse.
I would be very glad and very willing to bounce ideas before you commit to a course of action, flash!
bender@ihug.com.au
cross fingers hey? I cannot fathom why someone as freely giving as yourself has do deal with this crap.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Caz
member
Location: London
Member Since: 5th Sep 2002
Total posts: 19
Posted:Oh, Flash you poor luv,

Here's a suggestion... why don't you draw up a fake debt collectors letter. Title it Bird & Sullivan or something similiar and go on to say that after frequent reminders no payment has been received...blah blah blah...
Please contact Miss F within 3 days or legal action will follow.

Might scare him into being a little more co-operative.

Caz
-x-


-X-It's better to regret something you've done than regret something you haven't and forever wonder what if....

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toneman
member

Member Since: 18th Oct 2001
Total posts: 195
Posted:I say cap him, then break his knee!
Good lucK!

Top of the line bike- $5000
new shoes to match- $50
Day in court- $600
watching f&*#er writhe in agony cause you capped his ass- PRICELE$$

If that doesn't satisfy, wait till it heals then do it to the other knee (afterall, you don't want him to sucker some poor soul into feeling bad for him and take care of both his knees...)


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Thistle
Thistle

old hand
Location: Nottingham UK
Member Since: 27th Jan 2001
Total posts: 950
Posted:Flash, I am so sorry that you and your friend ended up in this financial nightmare from doing someone a good turn. Life is just not fair.

Sensible answer #1: Go through the proper legal channels to try to reclaim the money.

Sensible answer #2: Just take the bike, sell it, repay your friend.

Sensible answer #3: Don't just take the bike! Take the bike and get revenge! Cut up all his clothes, throw paint on the rest of his posessions and leave him with nothing, which is exactly what deceitful scumbags deserve.

Here's a huge load of hugs in case you need them, if there are any spare, please give them to your friend


Are we nearly there yet?

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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:Scaring him with a letter to "Miss F" from a debt collector will do nothing for him. Miss F has already been around there and expressed her disappointment in the situation and stressed that she is the one geting screwed here ... a friend who thought she was doing the biggest favour possible for this guy

not a nice way to be repaid.


- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Frenzie, I think Caz meant that the letter would be as though Miss F had hired the debt collector... Not another harassment from your bank to her. So it would be like a letter from a debt collector on behalf of Miss F.

Everyone else, thanks for your support and ideas. We'll see what happens I guess!


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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Frenzie
member
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 30th Jan 2001
Total posts: 515
Posted:Ahhh I C

Blood from a stone baby

the only way is to repossess the bike.


- Industrial design knows of no article more useful than the milk crate -

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Rozi
100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 11th Jan 2002
Total posts: 2996
Posted:Have a chat with the bank. They want to recover the debt. Dependant on the terms of the loan, they may be able to reposess goods up to the value of the remainder of the loan. However if the bike (now secondhand) is not deemed to be up to this value, they may want something more. Talk it out with them, as this will go on your credit record if it goes wrong. It means you may have trouble getting loans, & even a credit card, later on.

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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s-p-l-a-t
member
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Member Since: 8th Mar 2001
Total posts: 383
Posted:hmmm...

I've had similar situations but for much less sums of money (e.g. under $1000) ...

What an ungrateful #$$%@^$@##@$@ bastard in the first place..

Lawyer letters (i.e. written from ppl you know of and actually acting as firm warnings thus costing you nothing) can actually be really effective. I mean, if he thinks your friend can just hand over $5000 and then let him 4get about paying her back - he must think you guys can afford legal costs.. bluffs can seriously work sometimes..

My other option was to actually nick the bike back off him and sell it... hmmm but after thinking about it I wouldn't recommend it at all.. that being illegal and unkarma-friendly for one... *throws evil half of self across the room* hmmm ...but I think repossessing the bike is definitely the way to go too..

Definitely seek Legal Aid if there's problems repossessing the bike... I know ppl who've had their arses saved by them in the past.

hmmm...I hate to say it but I was thinking of Judge Judy too! Although that's not so bad... with problems I've posted on here, it must make me sound like the Young and the Restless or something


The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

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adren@line
member
Location: Hobart, Tasmania, Australia
Member Since: 28th Mar 2002
Total posts: 249
Posted:nothing a zuccini, duckfeathers and nutella cant fix...

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