Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Written by:
FYI I really despise age based laws, but thats neither here nor there... Thats not quite within the scope of the argument, and I'm taking a more extreme position for this thread in any event...



But now it has its own thread. Are age based limitation laws a good idea? i.e. drinking, gambling, sex. Limitations on what the minor can do.

Note: This is not the place to argue something should be illegal. If you think it should be illegal, its not age based laws you're unhappy with.

Note: I still think sex should be consensual. As such, if you cannot get an informed opinion out of someone (can't talk, doesn't understand you, etc) It should fall under that catagory... much as if someone didn't speak your language, was unconcious, mentally disabled adults, anything that prevents this. Please don't debate on here about what constitutes consent, altho saying there should be an age limit and it should be lower is fair, or saying it should be consent but it should be determined not by standard age is fair. Caprice?

PS, I'm arguing against them, so even if you all agree with each other...


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:age based laws are needed

not being harse but a lot of kids cannot see consiquences of their actions - ok some adults cant either BUT 90% of children cannot see the consiquences of having a kid themselves

also things like drinking when young can cause a LOT of long lasting harm.

things like the vote and tax may need re thinking but the majority of law based laws are right. most children (hell most teenagers) cannot make descisions properly - i sued to think i could then as ive grown older ive released that even now im quite immature. 2 years ago i dread to think how id have been


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spritie
spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX
Member Since: 9th Sep 2001
Total posts: 2014
Posted:there is evidence that teen's brains are still developing.
Particularly the prefrontal lobe, which is responisble for higher
order thinking and reasoning. This is why teens are known for doing
stupid things, they look like adults and are not let off the hook for
stupid decisions like children, but their reasoning skills are just
not quite fully developed.

There was a great article published by Discover magazine March 2001
that summarized research on teen brains and alcohol use and abuse. The
gist is that there is evidence that teen brains specifically the
lymbic system and the prefrontal lobe are particularly vulnerable to
alcohol, and its effects including cell death. this evidence comes
from studies on "teen" rats and tracking of intellegence measures and
alcohol use over the teen years. Repetative binge drinking was most
damaging. Although it is not conclusive that alcohol abuse in the
teen years will lower someone's IQ, it does raise serious concerns,
becasue these parts of the brain account for much of an adult's
reasoning and personailty.

Now, whether the legal limit should be 21 as in the states or 18 as elsewhere is another story, but I feel it does not need to be lower than 18.


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Prometheus
Prometheus

Diamond In The Rough
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Member Since: 30th Jun 2002
Total posts: 459
Posted:There is a need for some age-based laws, but there needs to be consistency. For example, in the US you can't buy/drink alcohcol until you're 21, but you can go to war and die at 18. You can't buy cigarettes at a certain age, but 9-year-olds can get all the coffee they want.

Some laws are just stupid, such as having to be 18 to buy lottery tickets.

The ones that are necessary are tough to legislate because everyone matures at different rates. Some 16 year-olds might be mentally and physically prepared for something while their 18-year-old friend is not. This might be solvable with licensing of some kind. A standardized test and psychological evaluations. If you can demonstrate that you can handle, say, getting married at 16, you can get licensed for it. If you don't pass the tests, you have to wait a year. I'm just spitballing but if I can get a hunting license at 12, but I can't own a gun 'til I'm 18, what's the point? Consistency, consistency umm


Dance like it hurts; Love like you need money; Work like someone is watching.

Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, when you DO criticize them, you are a mile away, and you have their shoes.

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Thank you prometheus. Licensing is a good idea, altho it can obviously not work (California Drivers Licensing!!!!!!!!!!!) but its probably a step in the right direction. There's a lot of things which could benefit from a more mixed approach to being able to do them. And perhaps in some cases there should be a general "feel free to harm yourself" age wherein licensing doesn't matter, because bueracracy is abused and all that.

Now, this isn't my idea of idea- I really despise nannying and think that parents and culture should be responsible for getting kids where they need to be. Even with laws, in this culture (which is horrible about these things) you find affect of not having adults or other role models to be quite bad....

It is of course true kids can [censored] themselves up a lot more and a lot more permanently than adults, and that they pay a lot less attention. But I don't think laws (which in some case serve as just another challenge, or make things more appealing to those younger) are quite the way of going about it... I think it should be up to society to protect their children or let evolution speak for itself...

I think also I may be coming at this from a slightly skewed pov, as I've always been able to be very responsible for myself (by necessity but nonetheless). This is not to say I havn't done stupid things, dated men I shouldn't have, waited too long to make decisions, or done things that otherwise were not the "ideal". But I did them with full awareness of risks and alternatives and altho I wouldn't do it all again now, I wouldn't change then. And several of the people I am close to are the same way, that they've since a very young age been able to be reasonably responsible for themselves, wouldn't have run up against problems in regards to running off and doing, well, whatever.

So perhaps I unfairly suggest people should be forced to take responsibility for their own actions, and those of their offspring when said offspring cannot. Tbh, it might make things better than now, when (particuarly americans) are getting mad at cable and isp's for things that they should be dealing with themselves.


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sethis
Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University
Member Since: 16th May 2005
Total posts: 1762
Posted:I'm not sure, I think there should be age based laws for things, but that they should all be consistent. E.g. If everything was legal after the age of 18.

The one that I get confused about is having sex at 16, but not being able to view pornography 'til 18. I mean, why? You can do it yourself 2 years before you can watch someone else. That's meandering a bit off topic though.

I think that if you removed the age limits on things now, then there would be about 30 years of seriously nasty stuff happening to kids, before it got better. Because we're accustomed to age restrictions, kids would be like "Wow, gotta do all of this adult stuff!"

On 2 minor points: I think you meant "capiche" rather than "caprice"... "Caprice" is a type of music ubblol

And it would get incredibly confusing to work out what constituted "consent" in sexual cases. You might call it consent if an adult gives a child an expensive toy in exchange for sex. Children are *far* more open to manipulation than adults are, and therefore I think there should be laws in place to protect them.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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JauntyJames
JauntyJames

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Hampshire College, MA, USA
Member Since: 22nd Dec 2004
Total posts: 3533
Posted:In the states, you can get a pilot's license two years before you can get a driver's license.

Crazy world, no?


-James

"How do you know if you're happy or sad without a mask? Or angry? Or ready for dessert?"

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onewheeldave
Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield
Member Since: 28th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3252
Posted:Not necessarily- obtaining a pilots license requires a much greater commitment and demonstration of responsibility than a driving license.



I would imagine that most people young people capable of passing a pilots license would be safe in the air- the same doesn't hold of young drivers.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:also less things to crash into in the air tongue

and sethis the whole age of porn thing has puzzeled me too i guess its to stop kids becoming corrupted tongue

i just hate that at 16 you can go live on your own pay full taxes but the min wage (in the uk) is only 3.50 .... unfair no?


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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:First, I believe that at whatever age you can be drafted, you should get ALL adult rights. Drinking, sex, voting, etc. If you're old enough to go and die for your country... Major rant I have against the US is the silly drinking laws.

I think that 16 is a reasonable age for sexual consent, although I subscribe to a 0.5n+7 rule for age (one half your age plus seven is the youngest you should be schtupping).

However, I believe that it is patently unfair to charge "adult" fares to people over age 12...


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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fNi
fNi

master of disaster
Location: New York
Member Since: 8th Mar 2004
Total posts: 3354
Posted:I was having a conversation with my uncle the other day, and no matter how many times I remind him, he always asks, 'would you like a drink', followed by 'I thought the drinking age was 18'...followed by 'well it used to be 18 in NY~~Jersey was 21 though..'

'tis shite that you can be drafted, but can't order a draft


kyrian: I've felt your finger connect with me many times
lou kitten: sneaky little meatball..
ezz: please corrupt me more

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