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Jhinge
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

member
Location: my own little planet of ginger...

Total posts: 110
Posted:so i was on the train thismorning on my way to work in canterbury reading the news paper when i came across an artical about hospitals and art now get this

the nhs is spending a vast amount of money on art and heres what they've bought

west londons hillington hospital: 35'000on a mural

royal west sussex: 30.000 on a sculpture of to fat men

st richards hospital in chishester: 18.000 on a textile haning in the foyer

now thats just to name a few but the best on is this the univercity college hospital spent 70.000 on a lump of granite to put in the hospital reception to improve patients well being

now forgive me if im wrong surly spending this money on treaments medicine and staff would be more advantagous to patients well being,art in hospitals is'nt a bad idea as can put smile on you face surly it would make sense to commision art from local artists ..............

it amazes me how nhs bosses moan about not having enough money for treatment but can find money to blow on art espessial when some hospitals are in debt e.g royal west sussex 20 million in debt

i think these managers should put themselves on a waiting list to get thier heads surgicaly removed from thier arses.


i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things

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Mynci
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...

Total posts: 8737
Posted:hear hear.... I visit hospitals regularly surely even art by local kids & schools would be a better, it would promote local services, encourage children, brighten the places up, save money. These hospital managers are just wasting more money on top of their wages all of which could go on machines, treatment and wages. If nurseswere paid better might we not get a bitmore interest in people wanting to learn to do it?

A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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Jhinge
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

member
Location: my own little planet of ginger...

Total posts: 110
Posted:the lump of rock that cost 70.000 is enough money to pay the wages of three nurses and god know howmany operation and treatment s

i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things

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flid
BRONZE Member since Aug 2002

flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire

Total posts: 3136
Posted:it's front page of the Sun today

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:Written by:
the lump of rock that cost 70.000 is enough money to pay the wages of three nurses and god know howmany operation and treatment s





umm That's a slight exaggeration, and i think the point is invalid anyway. The "lump of rock" wasn't bought at the expense of three nurses. It just costs the same.



Written by: Mynci
art by local kids & schools would be a better



Hmm, exploting child labour is all well and good. But personally i find kid's pictures are kinda rubbish compared with grownups ones.



Hospitals should be nice environments. Art helps that. Yes, they should be clean and efficient and money should be well spent, nurses should be paid well. Would "not buying works of art" help toward those goals though? Not appreciably. It'd just make hospitals uglier.


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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onewheeldave
GOLD Member since Aug 2002

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: sheffield

Total posts: 3252
Posted:Was this money available to spend on things other than artwork?

Often in these cases some branch of social funding has been accessed and this type of funding has very strict restrictions as to what it can be spent on.

For example, if it was arts funding and the cash was spent on wages, then the funders would simply take legal action to get the money back.


"You can't outrun Death forever.
But you can make the Bastard work for it."

--MAJOR KORGO KORGAR,
"Last of The Lancers"
AFC 32


Educate your self in the Hazards of Fire Breathing STAY SAFE!

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Jhinge
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

member
Location: my own little planet of ginger...

Total posts: 110
Posted:im noy saying saying it was bought at there exspense but whats more important a bit of rock or nurseing staff

cause the rock aint going to administer your medicine is it now


i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things

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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:my boyfriend worked as a buyer for the nhs... he quit when he couldn't buy stuff he thought was needed but had to buy big cars for some people instead...

btw, I got a letter from the NHS yesterday, saying I was a "non urgent case" and would get an appointment later. The "current approximate" waiting list is 5 months, which probably means the ACTUAL waiting list IN 5 MONTHS will be 8 months. I'm not getting it... if I don't get my work done I'm expected to stay in late or come in at the weekend... I realise things like operations can't be done on overtime, but simply seeing a patient to see IF there's going to be an operation or injections or anything at all? GRRRRRRRR.

and btw 2, for one of my wrists, I apparently have "de Quervain's syndrome", which can be treated by injections within 4 weeks of first symptoms.
I've had symptoms for 3 months before getting a physio appointment.
I've had to wait another month to see a physio who deals with hands.
Add 5 months for the current approximate waiting list, and there you go... 4 weeks my xxxx frown


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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Lemonkey


Lemonkey

Stalking amidst the desert, carrying an oversized scalpel...
Location: Huddersfield + Hull Uni... UK.

Total posts: 1019
Posted:Where's arty farty to defend this spending!

I think the odd artistic touch can with patient moral. This rock looks lovely, IMO. Having studied Geology (Alevel smile), I can appreciate the random formations of crystal in the rock... but it wasn't worth 70,000.


Willy - is bad for your health...

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Aryth
SILVER Member since May 2005

Aryth

in a beautiful daze....
Location: Liverpool, England

Total posts: 134
Posted:Written by: flid

it's front page of the Sun today



And therefore obviously the gospel truth as always!!!!!!

Not that i have a stark raving hatred for the Sun or anything the censored


Whatever happened to my green and pleasant land?

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Jhinge
BRONZE Member since Apr 2005

member
Location: my own little planet of ginger...

Total posts: 110
Posted:actually to be predantic it was on the front page of yesterdays sun
and on page 9 of todays and also in the mirrior


i dont get paid to belive i get paid to destroy things

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:I agree with purchasing art works for public buildings such as hospitals, and for many reasons.

I see this as a classic case of tabloid hype, and my god do I detest the Sun!

What the Sun first pounced on was the artwork outside the University College Hospital. It chose this because the artwork in question is a large polished marble stone and cost 70,000. Now, much did the NHS pay for this piece of art that I've seen several times and think does help make the entrance look a bit different?

Go on, guess how much this cost the NHS. How much did this remove from the 'Nurse Buying Fund'.

Here goes: 0. nothing. nada. not a penny.

Which buys you: 0 nurses, 0 beds, 0 bandages. Wow! What a scandal!

The money came from donations and half from the King's Fund charity.

Do you actually know the yearly NHS budget and how much a hospital costs? It's huge amounts - billions and billions. You've got to understand that 70,000 is not a lot of money at all. The new UCL Hospital the stone is outside of cost 420 million. So even if the NHS had paid for the sculpture then it's a miniscule fraction of the cost. Tabloids use simple equations to get their headlines but these just aren't realistic. You need far more than 70,000 to employ 3 nurses for a year and another million or two in the NHS would do nothing to shorten waiting lists. Another billion maybe.

The main justification for spending money on art in public spaces is that it creates a better environment for people who come for treatment and work there. I'm sure everyone here would rather work in a nice, clean, modern looking setting than work 8 hours a day in a dark windowless box and get paid a fraction more. Similarly I'd rather sit in a waiting room with a work of art than a sickly green box. And there's evidence that a positive environment helps people to recover quicker and be calmer in hospitals. So if money spent on artworks and non-clinical hospital environments does some good towards a patient's health how many nurses is that worth?

But if you do want to remove all money from art and put it in the coffers of the NHS then where does this stop? There's a lot of 'fat' that could be cut from the world in order to spend more on welfare and public art is well down the list.


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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:I don't think that anyone is saying "Art should not be in Hospitals" or "Art should be banned, and all the money in it put towards the NHS". They were simply pointing out that a 70,000 rock seems a bit expensive when they could have commissioned say, a dozen paintings from local artists for about 2000. You get art, and consequently a good environment, but not at a ridiculous price.

If you're going to drain money from anywhere, drain it from the military wink

*awaits flaming* biggrin


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
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I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:but the paintings would go soggy outside.

"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Put a frame and plastic cover on it? Like with cinema posters and stuff tongue

After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:Ah! But that's discussing the price of art. Who determine's the cost of anything? The price of art is the price people will pay for it. If somebody's willing to pay 70K for a 2 tonne block of rock then that's how much 2 tonne of rock costs!

Anyone want to but a pebble for a bargain 10?


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Birgit
BRONZE Member since Jan 2005

Birgit

had her carpal tunnel surgery already thanks v much
Location: Edinburgh

Total posts: 4145
Posted:yup... and it's things like that that makes the NHS (and other health services) pay tons of money for cheap stuff.

For example, some of the gas used to keep premature babies alive is actually quite cheap when you buy it for research etc. Unfortunately, some company has decided to patent it for medical use and sell it for horrendous amounts of money, approximately 100 times of what it actually costs.

Given that there's enough waste of money around that is put into life saving things, why waste more? I agree that it's just a drop of water compared to the oceans of other costs, but it's about health, every drop of water should be precious. 70000 quid may not cover for a nurse, but it can cover for repairs on equipment, or better chairs in waiting rooms if you want to make people more comfortable, or it can make quite a difference to support groups to print materials etc.
Believe me, I'd rather sit on a comfy chair and read a magazine than sit on a crap chair with the plastic splintered or the cover coming off and looking at a pretty rock smile And you can get a vitrine and a really nice set of minerals for people to look at for 5000 wink

I've read today (though it's the metro and it's unreliable) that Dundee uni offers students 2000 pounds to not study dentistry there this year, even though there's such a lack of dentists. I'm not sure how that works, but surely, if they don't have more spaces available they can just say "no" and don't have to pay people? I'm a bit confused, if anyone could explain that to me I'd be very happy smile


"vices are like genitals - most are ugly to behold, and yet we find that our own are dear to us."
(G.W. Dahlquist)

Owner of Dragosani's left half

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simian


simian

110% MONKEY EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME JUST CANT STOP THE MONKEY
Location: London

Total posts: 3149
Posted:hmm

when i hear about public services wasting money, i always feel happier that our public services are more focused on fulfilling the function they're meant to fulfill rather than being absorbed in cost & profit in the same way as private companies.

yeah it's my money they're using

but i think it'd actually get used less effectively if they worried more about how they were using it.

Does that make sense or am i just rambling? Hmm, it's good enough for government work anyhoo wink


"Switching between different kinds of chuu chuu sometimes gives this "urgh wtf?" effect because it's giving people the phi phenomenon."

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brodieman


brodieman

old hand
Location: london

Total posts: 1024
Posted:actually working in a hospital i really love all the artwork, what the papers forge to state is that their are generally charitys such as the hospital friend scheme that pay for most of it.
other points, art is like property the value generally increases with age so in fact it is generally an ivestment.

Many hospitals use brittish artwork promoting budding brittish artists.
The artwork is generally heavly discounted
.
Many hospitals such as chelsea and westminister sell the art and actually bring in money.

I am a nurse so i can apperate the need for extra staff, how ever it is shown that a positive colourful happier enviroment makes people feel better in them selves. I.E.
!!!! happy people get bettter quicker. and that is a fact.
Modern holistic care involves the enviroment that people are in
(for those who will feel the need to ask for proof of this fact might try

Wong. E (2000).Whaley and wongs guide to childrens nursing. London. mosbey

Walsh, M (1997). Watsons Clinical Nursing and Related sciences. Baillarie Tindall.london

Pitts. M (etal). (1998) The psychology of health. Routledge. London

Smith. P (etal) (2001) Understanding childrens devlopment. Blackwell. Massachusetts

All these boods contain information on how enviroment affects peoples health if anyone would like more please pm me i have about 20 more i can give.

Soooooooooooo... lol yes you can afford 2 more nurses in aa hospital which will cover 6 extra shifts in a week but and this is just a educated guess i would argue that the over all work load may decrease as peopel in a nicer enviroment get better quicker


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brodieman


brodieman

old hand
Location: london

Total posts: 1024
Posted:And does it only annoy me that people are constently slating the NHS it is far from perfect, but over all it works and it is avaible to everyone no matter how much they earn.

Intresting fact: The NHS is The third biggest orginisation in the workd behind the chineese and the russan army


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Dom
BRONZE Member since Dec 2001

Dom

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Bristol, UK

Total posts: 3009
Posted:I've recently seen the NHS work extremely effectively and quickly and I think it's great! It's not perfect, but then nor am I and nor is the company I work in and every other company. Big round of applause for the NHS from me!

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Sethis
BRONZE Member since Mar 2017

Sethis

Pooh-Bah
Location: York University

Total posts: 1762
Posted:Considering that the NHS is getting hammered from everyone at the moment, I'll just detail something that happened to me:

At about 1pm, I started having trouble breathing, it hurt every time I drew more than a shallow breath. I ignored it. It got worse, so in the evening I went to our local hospital for an examination (it was 10PM at night) and the doctor told me he thought it was a strained intercostal muscle, but he sent me to the City hospital to have an X-Ray just in case. I went to the hospital and had an X-Ray inside half an hour. The nurse person came back and told me I had an inflamed spot on the inside of my ribcage. She prescribed some pills, and the pain went away the next day.

The entire episode, from diagnosis to cure was less than 24 hours. Now I grant it wasn't particularly serious, but it bloody hurt, and I was panicking a bit. Great, fast and efficient service.


After much consideration, I find that the view is worth the asphyxiation.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I may disagree with what you have to say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

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spritie
SILVER Member since Sep 2001

spritie

Pooh-Bah
Location: Galveston, TX

Total posts: 2014
Posted:What some of you are failing to realize is that the money spent on the art was specifically meant for art. The people that raised that money raised it because they wanted to see more art in public/hospital type places. They wanted to help out artists and support them. The people that donated the money, for one reason or another, thought that a worthwhile thing to do and I personally agree with them.

Oh, and as for large pieces of granite, the university where I got my PhD had 3 of these very large slabs in the middle of the engineering quad. Every single day (that is wasn't raining out) some students were studying/gathering around/under these huge granite slabs. They were a focal point of campus, and each and every person that has attended that university is fond of 30, 60, and 90 as they are collectively referred to. They are a thing of honor for the university and something the students enjoy. So, think of the piece of granite as something to enjoy.


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