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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I feel a long one coming on... but I've been quiet lately so I'm due.

OK, I went to Uberpoi and saw the worlds most amazing poi spinners yet one of the most fundamental points that I learned was... "Wow, these guys have put a ton of time and effort into this!" (I mean do you KNOW how long Arashi's been spinning wink )

So firstly, tons of respect and love to all the Jedi in the world. Those guys and gals who are busting their butts to rock my world are some of my favorite artists in any field.

But... I'm never gonna be them. I don't WANT to be them. All of the poi spinners that I respect have a level of obsession that just isn't me. I've always been a very balanced person. If I sit for a few hours, I wanna dance, if I dance for a few hours, I wanna sit. If I go out on Weds, I wanna do quieter hobbies on Thursday. And if I stay home Friday night, damn sure I'm out on Saturday.

I'm not a flake. I follow through. I'm not lazy. BUT I don't spend 8 hours a week on any given hobby.

In fact, I'll be honest, I spend an average of hour a week on Poi. For the last 4 years. Some months I might spin more and then don't touch my poi for months.

So my question is this:

What's the most effective way for a fair weather firespinner like myself to progress and stay inspired?

I accept the fact that I'm never gonna be great. It's honestly not a goal. I think I've suffered a bit of a plateau lately because I've been looking to the Jedi for lessons and inspiration... but I'm not on the Jedi path. If I spent my 'one hour a week' drilling planes or ironing out microscopic timing differences, I don't actually think I'd progress.

I respect that there is a Jedi path. Concepts like "there are no moves" and "there are no beats" and "unconsious flow" and "ideal form" and "the mariage of dance and musicality" are all milestones along that path...

(TIme for an analogy no?)

When I was at university there were several different chemistry courses.
There was "Chemistry for Chemistry Majors" which I took.
There was "Chemistry for Other Science Majors" which didn't QUITE go into the depth but was still pretty darn hard.
Then there was "Chemistry for Non Science Majors" which really just gave an overview and focused less on theory and more on general ideas and simpler applications. None of them were actually any easier or harder, they just focused on different things.

There were great professors for "Chemistry for Chemists" but those weren't the same professors who taught the other courses. There were different professors who really focusd on the Chemistry for non scientists". These professors were equally brilliant but more in the area of making it accessable to all, rather than the minutia that only a chemist could understand.

I feel like for the last 4 years I've been running a C- in a 'Poi for Jedi' class and maybe that isn't the best course for me... since I'm NOT on the Jedi road. I mean NO disrespct for my heroes that are pushing the envelope. Those '4 hour a day' guys deserve every accolade they'll ever get and more. I don't want a hand out or a magic pill that will make me them.

I feel like I actually understand what the major theories in the "Poi for Jedi" sylabus but have no shot or desire at passing the final.

What's in the sylabus for the "Poi for Non Jedi" class? And who are the master teachers in that area? What are the lessons, concepts and thoeries? How can I be the most effective NonJedi? Because "Doing 20% of what the Jedi do" isn't the working for me.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Written by: Glss


What exactly is this "Jedi" thing that people keep mentioning in this thread?





Do a search. wink



Afterall...



You defined it.



hug


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:hmm..

firstly;

NYC is definitely 'jedi' hug2

secondly;

there are either NO jedi spinners, or so many that the concept is useless.

but, off topic, cause thats not what you meant, even tho its what you wrote.

anyhow.

i think cole says it best...:
Written by:
everyone's path is different and where you end up is the right place for you by necessity.

i hardly spin poi any more but i don't worry about it - i still do it when i feel like it (generally when i'm around other poi spinners - spinning by yourself just seems rubbish nowdays!) and when i do, it still makes me happy
it seems i come back to it, i learn a few new things and i learn new ways to teach things and it might even grab me again for a few weeks or months.


i know that i'll never 'not spin poi' and i know i can't spin poi all the time.
as long as i haven't been sitting around doing nothing, it doesn't matter to me if i've spun poi in the last two weeks or not




saying my thoughts better than i ever could, as usual hug2

and, tho some of you may disagree
Written by:
NYC - I take a non-jedi path. Although recently I admit I have been getting a bit more techy, the underlying reason is to amuse myself and enjoy it. There is no other direction I need to go.




i think this suits me too. just cause i break it down enormously, and drill like a [censored], is all in the interests of a)having fun and b)being able to pass it on to someon so they can have fun.

so, a final request: please can put the 'jedi' concept to bed, and just get on with enjoying poi as we spin/learn them in our different ways.
ta



hug2
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:I think there will always be people that will be 'pushing the envelope'. It's also dependant upon TIME as well. I mean there was a time when my good buddy Glass was really innovating some very specific ideas and 'moves'. Times change and people are distracted by pretty girls and other people pick up the slack. wink

I can remember when there were a select few that were really paving the way for hyperloops. There were a select few that then took that and pushed it in the way of suicides and such...

Even now, there's pretty much only ONE wibbler. wink

I think it's useful to learn from those who are at the forefront.

From what I've seen, folks like Arashi are exploring levels of musicality that VERY few people are doing.

I'd never suggest that anyone was better than anyone else. I do think that there are people who are looking to innovate in certain defined areas.

That specific level of innovation is what I'm referring to as "Jedi". If that's the wrong word, replace it with one that works.

I am not an innovator in the area of technical poi spinning. And I'm totally happy with that. biggrin My initial question was asking how I stay motivated and interested without puting in the time and effort to stay on par with the innovators. And there were lots of really good responses.

I think it also has to do with the fact that many of the concepts that the 'jedi' are playing with at the moment are not accessable to me, because I'm not at that level.


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:clap

So have you decided how to stay motivated?


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Not yet. Just readjusting to being back in New York. Crazy people out here seem to be driving on the right side of the road and how the heck am I supposed to tell the difference between the money if they're all the same size and colour?

Don't even get me started about the accents.

I miss Edinburgh. frown

Then again, it hasn't rained for two consecutive days which would be a Scottish record of some sort. wink


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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Ade
Are we there yet?
Location: australia
Member Since: 14th Mar 2001
Total posts: 1897
Posted:Written by: NYC

I am not an innovator in the area of technical poi spinning. And I'm totally happy with that. biggrin My initial question was asking how I stay motivated and interested without puting in the time and effort to stay on par with the innovators.



by looking at the poi from the other end.

Get away from the handles and what your hands are doing and have a look at your poi - can you find some motivation there - change your heads - furry toys, ribbons, etc...

I thought that the photos of you spinning (or doing something) inside a baloon were amazing...innovate on location, poi heads or some other aspect - forget the tech and go for fun...

ubbrollsmile


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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:Written by: NYC



I think it's further amplified by my annual summer UK exploits. Two years ago I learned a 4 beat TTN and spend the WHOLE YEAR finding places I could vary and flow into and out of from that. Last summer it was isolations and a few hyperloops which gave me a lifetime of inspiration. This summer I feel like the theme that I'll be taking back to the US will be things like 'drill your planes' and 'dance with the music'... not quite the fun toys that I usually have spinning in my head on the airplane.




oh wow, how did i miss this?

did you miss all the uberpoi classs about techniques and moves? wink
only kidding, i'm really interested in what this makes everybody think.

personally:
i think this year there has been more innovative spinning and sharing than in a LONG time. although perhaps not as obviously as in the past( e.g. airwraps,btb etcetc.)
people seem to want to be beautiful and technical(finally! after years of arguing with pele the majorit seem to be on my side wink )

and yet i feel there were several 'new' techniques being bandied about over the summer that are of equal difficulty, and(imo) and beauty to 4bt ttn and airwraps(just using your example so no jumping from anyone)

like
hybrid spinning
antispin
gumbys
negative space
atomics(finally reached europe nearly alive)

now i'm not saying all of these suit all people.

but a lot HAS been made of the 'learn to dance' and 'feel the poi' movement. and also the 'drill drill drill' idea too, but they were by no means the only thing people were saying/showing to you while here. maybe you just prefered to hoop(an exceptionally fine thing hug), but i don't feel you can say there has been a lack of inspring ideas.perhaps none of them inspired YOU but they are definitely around.

anyway.
didn't mean to get personal, just wanted to make you think a little more.
hug

ubblove
R


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:bump? want to know others opinions on this....

(that and i hate destroying a living thread)


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:Written by:
That specific level of innovation is what I'm referring to as "Jedi". If that's the wrong word, replace it with one that works.



I think the phrase you are looking for is 'slightly Autistic' wink

Or perhaps 'obsesive compulsive'

And if those terms don't apply to you then there are definite advantages.

NYC i don't even get this thread, your swing dancing is totally badass, so if Molly's not around, you should just swing with your poi, dance with them as you would a partner. Sometimes lead, sometimes follow and add lashings of offbeat swing timing and crazy footwork.

Anyways, who gives a damn about poi, you spin fire plates, you crazy man!!:D

m


Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:I am taking a break from my nervous breakdown to share a quote I encountered in a book I am reading... wink



It struck me as relevant to this thread , cause I was wondering if a child would be concerned if they lost interest in their toy, or game, found another, or simply did not play with it for a while or left it behind one day in the woods. I suspected they would just let it happen, and see where it takes them, without much thought at all. The nature of play lets us pick things up and put them down spontaneously, when they attract our intention or inspire our movement. It is Flow.



Play, vs Discipline I think is the gist of it, another way of expressing what I said previously about immersion in process or attention to goal. Both learning paths. Kids start with play, and then as adults we seem to place more emphasis on discipline. Should we? ( my answer is only if you want to! )



I think you , and most of the HOP people I have met, have cleverly avoided giving up the world of play as we move into adulthood...

clap but still, some days, the following might be a good reminder!



" Watch children while they play, and see the free range they give their minds , and their openness to the outer world. All this helps foster thier intuitive gifts. Play encourages chance phenomena. In other words, when you are playing you don't try to inhibit anything that might happen. You are open to anything that comes your way, and that includes intuition. We give that up as we move into adulthood. We stop playing, and the world changes. Instead of a place marked by the unknown where fantastic thigs can take place, it becomes a familiar place where everything can be explained. we leave ourselves no room for intuition, that sudden spark that comes out of nowhere, often bringing with it new and creative possibilities..." from Awakening Intuition ,ML Schultz



So, another suggestion ( just another way of voicing much of what has been said) is to just Play, when and if you feel like it, and watch for those chance phenomena. Enjoy exploring , and warm youself by the fires created by those sparks of Intuition...

hug



Okay, must get back to my breakdown now,

bye


"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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BansheeCat
veteran
Location: lost
Member Since: 29th Jul 2005
Total posts: 1247
Posted:from the same book, provoked another thought. Maybe within the group of people attracted to Poi and the object manipulation/dance arts, we see a split range of brain disorders.... one group that is on the " slightly autistic" side, and the other touching on ADD characteristics... The book goes into brain development aspects ect of this, which I wont even attempt to describe. But the author suggests that perhaps we should not look at these ways of being as disease or disorders at all, just atypical ways of relating to the world that each offer a different set of gifts.

"God *was* my co-pilot, but then we crashed, and I had to eat him..."

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:hug

Andrea, thanks lady...

hug2


Getting to the other side smile

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NYC
NYC

NYC
Location: NYC, NY, USA
Member Since: 26th Aug 2001
Total posts: 9232
Posted:Just thought I'd chime in and nod my head. I don't really have anything to add in particular but love the comments above. Don't think I'd actually diagnose anyone in the Poi community that I'VE met as anywhere near autistic... or even Aspbergers. I encounter MUCH more of that type behavior in my geekeir pursuits.

Besides, if more firespinners were diagnosed with obsessive conditions, they'd all show up an hour early with 300 extra bottles of fuel and 34 extra lighters. They'd be ANTISLACK. And when the heck have you seen that? wink

And Matt, I do understand that I've got tons else going on. Which is GREAT. It just challenges me to be more effective during the minority of time I do want to do poi. Which is maybe one of the points that some are missing.

"How can I be more effective and inspired if I'm NOT going to be obsessive?"

(Many have answered this and adressed it, but some I think are still thinking I'm whining about my life... which I certainly ain't. biggrin )


Well, shall we go?
Yes, let's go.
[They do not move.]

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[Nx?]
[Nx?]

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Europe,Scotland,Both
Member Since: 5th Nov 2001
Total posts: 3749
Posted:yeah, i liked the post above too. is cool.

Tom


This is a post by tom, all spelling is deleberate
-><- Kallisti

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_Clare_
_Clare_

Still wiggling
Location: Belfast
Member Since: 22nd Oct 2002
Total posts: 5967
Posted:"They'd be ANTISLACK."


ubblol

biggrin


Getting to the other side smile

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DeviantPenguin
newbie
Location: Dover, DE
Member Since: 4th Apr 2005
Total posts: 7
Posted:This is a great thread.

In honing other skills, I tend to let poi fall to the wayside sometimes, but I always wind up coming back to it. I find that often, it's a nonspinning source of inspiration that leads me back. Sometimes this will cause me to drill quite a bit for a couple weeks and try to learn new things, sometimes it will just encourage me to dance in new ways and feel the poi more.

It used to bother me that I was so inconsistant, because I used to be one of the better spinners around and then one day got on HOP and realized that a LOT of new development had happened that I didn't even know about. I realized I would never be one of the best spinners, but that I didn't need to be, either. My enjoyment of the art was not linked to being "better" than other spinners, but to how it felt and how happy I was with my level of performance and skill. That is how I gauge things now. If I am happy with where I am, I don't "practice," I just play with it. When I see something really cool that I feel I can't do without, I practice it till I get it, then put down the poi till I get inspired again. This is fine.

Thanks for starting such a great thread, hope what I've said helps. smile


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fluffy napalm fairy
fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land
Member Since: 12th Dec 2001
Total posts: 3638
Posted:Deviant Penguin ( ubblol I am loving the name btw....) what you've said soundsfamiliar to me smile

Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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ficklampa
ficklampa

member
Location: sweden,stockholm.
Member Since: 6th Dec 2004
Total posts: 81
Posted:can someone please tell me about this jedistuff?
i don't really get it.
what i can say about my poing is that, i practise as much as i want too.
when i feel like poiing i poi when i don't i don't, as simple as that.
so..same as you andrealee just to play and have as much fun as i can possibly have.
of course learning new stuff is a part of that so i tend to practise stuff and get all beaten up from it but its all worth it if i nail the trick in the end and can do something interresting with it.

also what you say about the mind working in a different manner i have experienced.
i have had periodes when i have been pretty down and then i poi more then ever because my mind sort of shuts off for a while and time is no longer existing.
(when you can spend and hour in the middle of winter 12 o'clock pm outside without much clothing poining without feeling that it is cold something is not normal;P)

still...jedi?:P


the only thing worth dying for is life itself

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:jedi?

this is the one and only way to tell... tongue


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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TheWibbler
old hand
Location: New Zealand
Member Since: 11th Apr 2003
Total posts: 920
Posted:haha

Spherculism ~:~ The Act of becoming Spherculish.

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ficklampa
ficklampa

member
Location: sweden,stockholm.
Member Since: 6th Dec 2004
Total posts: 81
Posted:uhm..well yeah i know a jedi but i was thinking more...jedi in poi?

the only thing worth dying for is life itself

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KaelGotRice
KaelGotRice

Basu gasu bakuhatsu - because sometimes buses explode
Location: Angel's Landing, USA
Member Since: 21st Jul 2003
Total posts: 1584
Posted:NYC, you've been doing it wrong the whole time. You need to learn ballet. That and yoga.

wink


To do: More Firedrums 08 video?
Wildfire/US East coast fire footage
LA/EDC glow/fire footage
Fresno fire

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ubbrollsmile.gif" alt="" />

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:I think (and don't quote me on this) that it was Glass who first coined the term, by describing a move as 'jedi!' Since then, the term has come to mean the tricks at the more technical end of the poi spectrum and the people who can spin them.

For example, Arashi is jedi. In fact I think he is the jedi master.

It's a quite flexible term, and what is defined as 'jedi' changes as more and more people pick up poi. At the moment, I'd say that jedi tricks are things like isolations, atoms, antispin, inversions insides, gradients and so on.

Jedi training also involves nailing planes and timing and doing ridiculous amounts of spinning... but that might just be a misleading rumour.

Any thing I missed?


Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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ficklampa
ficklampa

member
Location: sweden,stockholm.
Member Since: 6th Dec 2004
Total posts: 81
Posted:uhm...ok.
sounds really fun:P
thanks for the explanation.


the only thing worth dying for is life itself

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:Written by: Drudwyn


gradients







biggrin umm biggrin





as for 'jedi', blame that lovely man, mr tony touch hug2



'jedi' is only in our heads.



its meaning is subjective - it means something different to each person.



pick what it means for you and move on i say smile





cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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bluecat
bluecat

geek, level 1
Location: everywhere
Member Since: 15th Dec 2002
Total posts: 5300
Posted:clap

ubblol


Holistic Spinner (I hope)

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:So... as we've got Jedi, what's a Sith then?

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:sith?

isn't that the white stuff you get on the inside of oranges...?


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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Drudwyn
Drudwyn

Forget puppy power, Scrappy's just gay
Location: Southampton Uni
Member Since: 27th Aug 2005
Total posts: 632
Posted:nah, that's pith... Sith are like Jedi but they get groovier powers and actually get things done. So are there poi Sith?

Spin, bounce, be one with the world, because it is yours to enjoy...

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coleman
coleman

big and good and broken
Location: lunn dunn, yoo kay
Member Since: 29th Aug 2002
Total posts: 7330
Posted:are you sure...? ubblol

if you want there to be, then yes, there are.

i have yet to meet one though.


cole. x


"i see you at 'dis cafe.
i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.
they do porridge."
- tim westwood

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