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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:I was reading/watching somewhere that 70% of people suffer depression that accompanies the changing of the seasons.
What it is, as daylight grows shorter the depression grows stronger. When the days get longer the depression goes away. It is linked to a chemical our body processes or releases from exposure to sunlight.

Now, I know this is real. I have several friends who suffer from it. I think I might a bit too, but I can actually attribute mine to things other than sunlight deficiency.
A couple of my friends are trying the herbal suppliment approach (not pot, vitamins), but it isn't really helping much. One has turned to drinking. None of them want pharmacutical drugs because, well, let's face it, prozac isn't needed for something felt 1/3 of the year, and they don't want to do the whole chemical thing for winter blues.

What do you all think? Is it real or in the head? Do you suffer from it and if so what approaches do you take?
Curiously waiting your thoughts.


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1027
Posted:Yes it is true.

As an electrician I did special lighting installations for places that employed night shift workers.
Night shift workers do not get much natural light which like a plant we need also to make chemicals in the body.
Without the chemicals the body lacks energy and gets tired and feels sick.
What I installed was special "hospital fluorescent" type lamps around their workplaces. These lights helped to make low level UV light waves enough to make a benefit but not harm the workers.
According to statistics the installation of these lamps drastically reduced the number of sick days each worker took during the year.

I myself suffered as a child with rickets.
quote:Rickets is a disorder caused by insufficiency or inefficient action of activated Vitamin D in the body during childhood. Vitamin D is a fat-soluble vitamin that may be absorbed from the intestines or may be produced by the skin when the skin is exposed to ultraviolet light (particularly sunlight).

I have Coeliac disease and diabetes melitus which caused a lack of absorbed vitamin D. I was so sick that i stayed indoors most of the time so I missed out on vitamin D from sunlight too.

I suffer today from many bone disorders and pain which sadly could have been avoided just by a bit of sun when I was small.

I am sure the sun has many other benefits to chemical health of our bodys.
When ever I feel down/tired I go for a walk in the sun's light.

I love you big flame in the sky


May your balls always burn

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Malcolm! what's Coeliac disease?

yeah, Pele, i've definitely been affected by SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder), some years depending on how strong i am in other ways, more than others, meaning at the very least i hate winter sunlessness, coldness, dourness. some love it, can't wait to ski. i was born in old Boston, but yechchhhh salt in grayed sooty slush on ground on socks on wooden floorboards oldskool beloved in creaky old New England houses.

it's real all right, and seniors have to really watch out, especially single ones, it can weigh them down heavy enough to just peter out, say the docs, affirming Malcolm's light therapy. some prescribe not prozac but bulbs for several hours a day, just shining them on faces, skin of elders.

sorry to hear how sunlight is so crucial to younguns too, Malcolm.

with all my love,

and fie on the winter, life to you, dear friends, especially you, Pele!

~ Mikie, major sunworshipper


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1027
Posted:Mike - information on coeliac disease

May your balls always burn

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fluffy napalm fairy


fluffy napalm fairy

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Brum / Dorset / Fairy Land

Total posts: 3638
Posted:SAD is very real indeed. It's not in the head.

Apparently, when you're down the winter depression grows worse.

I was watching something about a lamp that has been developed that you use as a bedside lamp. You set it for when you get up and about two hours before you wake it gradually begins to turn on. That way it is as if dawn was coming earlier and your body soaks up all the necessary loveliness to wake up happy and bouncy.

When you go to sleep the light takes about two hours to wind down again, so it's like having a longer day. Also, the time in the mornings and evenings is almost like a meditation period where you can really relax and chill - very important to combat any sort of depression.

I'm not sure how much they are or even if they're on the market but they sound pretty good to me Vitamins do also help, as does working outside whenever possible (very difficult for a lot of people but hey - that's one of the beauties of spinning )


Geologists do it in the dirt................ spank

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Hey Pele!

I think it's definitely real! Being the bronzed Aussie that I am, I guess a lot of sunlight became quite normal to my body's function.

When I moved to Canada in 1998, after going from Australian winter to canadian winter (6 months long) to their sad excuse for a summer (I was in the mountains and it rained more often than not) and then another of their winters, I ended up going insane! Something popped in me and aside from depression and apathy I just wasn't myself til I got a good dose of sunlight! I was whacky and on a really short fuse. Overly emotional, analytical and cynical (more so than usual). It got to the point where I thought I'd have to invest in one of those UV headlamp thingies that people wear in winter!

Now that I'm back in Australia and having experienced SAD, I'm very aware of when my body needs some vitamen D. I get a bit stir crazy - you know that good old cabin fever feeling.

It's often interesting that we don't understand the needs of our body until it is being deprived. I've become much more in tune with my body since abusing it on a regular basis.


HoP Posting Guidelines
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Jade Lynx


member
Location: Laguna Beach, but i live in De...

Total posts: 239
Posted:My brother-in-love used to get that pretty badly. He lived in a house in a redwood ring (trees 100-120 feet tall all around right up close), on a NorthEast slope, and that place was darkish even in high Summer (plus he's an indoorsy type anyway, and a bit of an Eeyore by nature...). He took extra Vit. D in Winter, which helped, and made a point of going out in broad open spaces each day to max his exposure. This also helps the cabin fever feeling that is often associated with SAD. Full spectrum bulbs will be more helpful than regular white if you are doing extra light in your home. Full spectrums have more colors in them, therefore are a better simulation of sunlight (also better for your eyes).

I get it a bit here in Colorado, i can't imagine how it would be in, say, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada, which is 1300 miles North of here...

And by the way, it's snowing here.


We got the MikeZ in the house, woot!Glue the ham, hat baby!

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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 5635
Posted:SAD is very real, and most people, without realising are sufferers. If you are fortunate to live in a tropical location, live it up! You are far luckier than you realise.

I grew up in Tropical Darwin, in the Northern Territory of Australia. Sun up at 6:30, sun down at 7:30 pm every day. nice long sunny days ` Even in the monsoon it was still bright enough so that you wouldnt go nuts...

I moved to Tassie with my family, and went through the horror of a winter, with only short amounts of daylight, and it really got to me.....

Its funny, how much around this time of year (spring in australia) that i notice how WONDERFUL everything is, instead of walking with my head down, i bounce around!

Far as im aware, a lot of reasearch is being done on light therapy, the lamps that Ros talked about, and Light Boxes for reading off, or even using as dinner tables.....

A friend of mine, once said, if you want to wake yourself up properly, go stand in front of a bright fluro light, with your eyes closed for a few minutes. It wont provide you with vitamin D, but it will shift the brain into "daylight" mode, and help you to function more alertly.....


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:Use Reptile bulbs. They are made to give extra vitamin D, since most reps are baskers and require use of them. Rep bulbs come in full spectrum or UV and some interesting colors. They are fairly cheap and accessible at just about any pet store.
Just thought I would add that in!

Thing with vitamin D is that even if you take a vitamin pill of it, sometimes that isn't enough. So it leads me to think it is more than just that, you know?


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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Kali
BRONZE Member since Apr 2002

member
Location: Berlin, Germany

Total posts: 577
Posted:It is more than Vitamin D. Sunlight aids seratonin production in the brain as does aerobic exercise. These are two things people in colder climates are generally deprived of during the winter.

You can get the special lights and spend about two hours under them per day which is supposed to be an adequate substitute. I have taken an herbal mixture called Nevaton which had St. John's Wart and some other stuff in it and that worked rather well.

SAD is very real and has a stronger effect on women. I have had issues with depression throughout my life and am a bit anxious about how I'm going to handle my first New England winter. One of the things that I found helped me the most was to really go deep within myself when I was depressed and get right to the roots of my being. I can't really explain it, but I was a lot stronger and wiser when I came out of it. I also read a lot of books that helped me out.

Love, hugs, and happiness


Beauty is the conscious sum of all our perversions.-Salvador DaliHope without action is hopeless.

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Malcolm
SAPPHIRE Member since Nov 2003

Malcolm

HOP admin
Location: New Zealand

Total posts: 1027
Posted:I have read that vitamin D pills are not as good as vitamin D made using the skin and sunlight.
I have no idea if that is true or not.

I don't know how many pills we would require to get same amount of vitamin D from 1 hour of good sunlight?

Maybe we need to look at more things than just the sun for S.A.D.
Do we eat differently in winter?
Do we do less excercise in winter?
Do we laugh (have fun) less in winter?

Good healthy food, plenty water, a bit of exercise (poi and staff twirling) , lots of fun and laughter and the sun shining on us seems to describe "summer" for me.


May your balls always burn

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Flynt
SILVER Member since May 2002

Flynt

Intrepid Penguin
Location: , Australia

Total posts: 5635
Posted:i read somewhere recently, that scientists had just finished a five year study, on the effects of vitamin suppliments.

They studied over 5,000 from all walks of life, half taking vitamins, and half not.

After five years they discoverd that there was no difference between the two test groups. There was the same incidence of cancer/diabetes/heart disease that you would expect in normal life. There was no difference in their vitamin blood levels at all.

The only difference between the two groups was a slightly higher level of cholesterol in the group who DID take vitamins!!!

Guess the body knows what it needs, and wont take any substitutes!


Currently on the right side up of the world.

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:I think the evidence that it's real is that treating it with day-spectrum lights in the home works. I know someone with SAD (Seasonal Affective Disorder) and she has day-spectrum lights in her house. They've made a world of difference for her and I have noticed the change, but if you were in her house, you wouldn't notice anything different about the lights.

I think I used to suffer from it a bit, but I like the night now, so not so much anymore.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Very real. Winter is definitely worse for me.

Very simple treatment in exposing yourself to an intense whitelight for a short period each day.


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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Kurobei


member
Location: The Phire Kru

Total posts: 786
Posted:I can tell you all that Winter is the worst time of all, here, it's really cold, wind chill cuts right through you and it never seems to snow anymore, at least you can have fun in the snow!! Now it just rains and rains and it's cold rain, I'm getting depressed just thinking about it and it's probably gonna rain this year as well, in the Summer I feel a whole lot better and warmer inside but Winter is a killer!!!

[ 30 October 2002, 22:27: Message edited by: Kurobei ]


whats up with all the limitations?

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_Stix_


_Stix_

Pooh-Bah
Location: la-la land

Total posts: 2419
Posted:I get SAD.. used to make me very depressed in the winter - just wanted to curl up into a little ball and die.. But NOW.. ta taaaa

I have one of those lights Roz was talking about.. from a company on the net called 'outside in' It does exactly what the Fairy said.. but it's more like 40 mins instead of two hours.. it's nice because it comes on realy dimly and wakes you up as it gets bighter.. remember how nice it is when you wake up naturally on a sunday with the sunlight streaming thru the window? Bloody expensive - but it's changed my life!

ST JOHNs WORT - if you are taking this suppliment (which boost serotonin levels) PLEASE CONSULT YOUR DOCTOR if you are taking anything else - even paracetamol or vitamin suppliments.. IT HAS BEEN NOTED IN SOMECASES TO CAUSE LIVER OR KIDNEY DAMAGE.. other than that it's great stuff..

Malcolm - bummer about the coeliac stuff.. I was nearly diagosed too.. but it was just IBS.. I'm also lactose intollerent - so I know what it's like to have to watch your diet.. yours is so much harder tho -

[ 30 October 2002, 23:00: Message edited by: Stix ]


I honour you as an aspect of myself..

You are never to old to storm a bouncey castle..

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Magnus


member
Location: Bath, UK

Total posts: 279
Posted:SAD always hits me pretty bad. This year I plan on vast amounts of St Johns Wort, meditation, twirling, and possibly a week in the sun somewhere.

Magnus... pay it forward

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flash fire
BRONZE Member since Jan 2001

flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2758
Posted:Just a quick side-note on St Johns Wort - women taking the contraceptive pill should not use it, as it reduces the effect of the Pill considerably.

HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:Other note on St Johns Wort, if you are already on any other form of anti-depressant medication, consult your doctor before taking it. My experience is that it sends you totally freakin' nuts (then again, I was fairly close to start with )

It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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flowingchalice
BRONZE Member since Jul 2002

flowingchalice

member
Location: Leicester, uk

Total posts: 180
Posted:Whoa, I nearly posted about this a week or so ago, but thought I might come off sounding a tad crazy... u'd think I'd know better by now huh?

I get this EVERY single bloomin' year... and by every summer I manage to convince myself that it wasn't really that bad! Nice to know I'm not the only grumpy bear out there holed up in their cave... grumping. For me, the dark nights set in and I feel like I can't even leave the house sometimes. I don't want to be outside, I can't be bothered to walk anywhere, and my energy levels really hit rock bottom. At least this year I've got fire!!! Yay!

Do you generally find that you make as much effort going out to spin in winter? I know the early nights are great cos you can spin sooner - but do you go out as much? Does anyone actually prefer winter spinning? Or even, dare I say, enjoy it? I know I enjoy coming in again... maybe I need a magikal winter experience to kick my butt into gear with me 'ol poi

Will definitely look into the lamps too... cheers you guys!

~frozen-chalice BbBrrRRrrr...


Who looks outside dreams; who looks inside wakes C G Jung

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:LOOK at our responses.

we aren't just representative of the populations at large in our areas; i sense a definite tendency for regular pyros like us to tend to have a greater play between depression and exhilaration.

even if as Pele told us in the beginning, 70% of people are affected by SAD so it's a general, broad phenomenon. our testament suggests we as a group feel it more.

(besides additional complications some of us have. Malcolm, say that link, a gluten allergy? how does the gluten harm your digestive tract? and of course we know others among us have other complications.)

without considering yet the discussion elsewhere about why we spin, those going for grace and technical difficulty, and even relaxation, vs. those who just love fire and are happy with simple moves and need a weekly fix, to those who light up for any anxiety, antsiness, even daily.

yes, we are as a group creatives, which certainly correlates with mood swings. . .not just born with deeper ranges of feelings in shorter times, but also instinct which savors them more, perhaps, than most. most of us are decidedly performers; our egos work that way when we dysfunction even in this family, and seeking the limelight, and to express ourselves, we are also, because we actually pursue these moments, liable to be depressed with our failures in the process, and with downtime from our emphatic moments, and perhaps to feel the dark ranges as part of our strong connection to life currents, just as we are more enthusiastic for drifts of elation. poets, painters, art athletes, musicians who vibe with beats as we do, full of this since forever, not a secret, and fount of much artwork.

i'm a sunlover like flash fire, and like warmth everywhere. not all of us like it as much, yet whatever our temperature preferences, the skin we have to flourish in sun or not, even our temperaments and personality types differing,

we all love the excitement of fire

beautiful, wicked, dangerous, tamed-seeming, elegant, raw, whatever flave

and we feel the absence, the antithesis of fire,
we feel the bone cold
we feel the daunting chill breeze
we feel the dull gray more than the blackness
we feel the foggy fuddiness not crisp flame
we feel the damp
we feel the bore
we feel

we want our flame

all my love to us all, myself included,
chilled at peering the other way,

~ Mikie

[ 31 October 2002, 18:31: Message edited by: FreMke ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:I'd like to believe that we are all some magical creative types as proven by our weird depressive dark sides. However I am coming to the conclusion that the modern world doesn't meet the spiritual needs of many people, hence the prevalance of these sort of feelings. Maybe our only advantage is that we acknowledge this side in ourselves, and try and find an outlet for it.

I have kinda just been thinking. Today I inherited a small amount of money from my granfather. he passed away about two years ago now, but my grandmother was the executor of the will and not in a fit state to do so. So it took a while for my uncles to sort out his affairs (my grandpa was one of those who had many secret "mattresses" to store his money under).

My mum was so sad in passing over the money to me. I could see in her eyes the pain that thoughts of her dad not being there caused, that such a lovely man was reduced to a cheque. I have been trying to think of what I can buy to remember him by. But I am reading back over the top part of my post and thinking about why that thought upsets me. How can I buy a memory? Why on earth would I think that money can bring a sense of closeness to a person?

[ 31 October 2002, 18:34: Message edited by: Rozi ]


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:Rozi darling, don't forget the difficult challenges to magical creativity in older phases of the (merely short) human world so far; starting with the likelihood of dropping dead a lot sooner, no way for us all to meet and support and love each other like this (and trade intel, sure), and not the freedom or language to do it either. . .

and no, the mass of people were as terrified and likely to ward you off for your creativity, or in a bad year eat you and your horse (there's a great old movie, i don't remember, French? nobles in a carriage go into a village, the starving peeps stare at them, gaunt, wordless, the longest uncomfortable time, then butcher their horse and who knows what to the human travellers, and i remember a grandson boy chewing the flesh first to pulp to give his toothless granpa)

and we have so much media of all kinds. hey, how long have we had kevlar, to perform our fondest miracles of art and spirit today?

yes, there are many other dimensions of suppressing spirit today, some insidious, and well-explored by many over the last centuries. . . but altogether, hardly more suppressant than most times before.

even ancient Greek politicos acknowledged most rumors of "golden old days" were fond made-up memories, not realities.

so we face what creatives always face, with more tools and freedom and chances for friendship and love than ever before, Rozi.

the chance to make the wonderful world we wish, of which we are the authors, which we create by will, by our magical spirit, and by our hard work including the practice it takes to reach elegance in firetoys. we need eachother as encouragement, colleagues, family.

despite winter doldrums, it's ours to produce, ours to live, ours to savor.

never forget, always build, always love

that's functional, philosophical health in communion, eh?

with all my love, and especially tonight to you, Rozi, and drawing from all of you with me who share your lives with me, for which i am incredibly grateful,

~ Mikie


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Rozi:
How can I buy a memory? Why on earth would I think that money can bring a sense of closeness to a person?perhaps spend it on something which he'd like, or your mum too would like, to happen?

if i died, i would be so pleased for my heirs to do with what i left what would warm my heart to do, for myself, for them, for others. . .

then indeed, you are not so much close to your grandfather, you are your grandfather in action when he is not in mortal action himself. . .

[ 31 October 2002, 18:50: Message edited by: FreMke ]


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Rozi
SILVER Member since Jan 2002

100 characters max...
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia

Total posts: 2996
Posted:You are right. It has to be something special. I was even thinking about buying my mum a piece of jewelry with it. But I think it has to be more than that.

I am trying to set up my own business, and I know he would be so proud to help me establish that, so part of it is pinned for that.

But I want to also do something that my whole family will love. I didn't get to go to my grandfather's funeral, cos it was in the UK, and only my mum could go. So I would like to maybe have an event to remember him. Any ideas?


It was a day for screaming at inanimate objects.

What this calls for is a special mix of psychology and extreme violence...

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SmallBoy - x


SmallBoy - x

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London

Total posts: 2737
Posted:Not sure if it's anything to do with lack of sunlight coz I used to love working night-shift when I was a nipper.......however Winter sucks.
I can be happy bouncy all summer without any effort what-so-ever (regardless of mad ex girlfriends or strange family members etc...) however when it's winter it doesn't matter how many hugz I get, how much I focus on all the good things or anything, it takes real effort to be happy.
Maybe it's just that every winter, everyone else just looks like they're about to slit their wrists, and has a knock on effect.
Maybe it's just co-incidental that every winter I get the worst run of bad luck ever.
Maybe I should just shut up and leave u guys to it.
L8rz


Small Lardy Person In Disguise

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Kurobei


member
Location: The Phire Kru

Total posts: 786
Posted:quote:Originally posted by SmallBoy:
...love working night-shift when I was a nipper.......A nipper, you? Nah!!! (hehehehe )


whats up with all the limitations?

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FireMikeZ


FireMikeZ

Laguna dude
Location: Laguna, California, US

Total posts: 1438
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Kurobei:
A nipper, you? Nah!!! (hehehehe )A nipper, you? Nah!!! (hehehehe )


molten cheers,

~ FireMike

FireMikeZ@yahoo.com (personal messages welcome, no promo spam, please!)
Laguna, California, US

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Doc Lightning
GOLD Member since May 2001

Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA

Total posts: 13920
Posted:quote:Originally posted by Pele:

Now, I know this is real. I have several friends who suffer from it. I think I might a bit too, but I can actually attribute mine to things other than sunlight deficiency.
A couple of my friends are trying the herbal suppliment approach (not pot, vitamins), but it isn't really helping much. One has turned to drinking. None of them want pharmacutical drugs because, well, let's face it, prozac isn't needed for something felt 1/3 of the year, and they don't want to do the whole chemical thing for winter blues.Pele, herbs, SSRI's like Prozac, and other drug approaches (yes, folks, herbs are drugs; Saint John's Wort is an SSRI) are all well and good. SSRI's, in particular, will effectively treat most cases of Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).

Peachy. But why?

In medicine, we have a mantra: "Treat the underlying caue."

SAD has two underlying causes, both of which must be present in order for it to be SAD: (1) a person who is susceptible to SAD and (2) decreased exposure to natural light.

Well, you can treat cause (1) by using a drug or herb. That's easy, inexpensive (if you have prescription coverage), and effective, but the best solution, in my opinion, is to treat cause (2). It takes a bit more work on the part of the sufferer, but it isn't a pill, the effects are very rapid (within a week, and sometimes within 2-3 days), and there are no negative side-effects. That treatment is daily exposure to bright light. There is no evidence that a "natural" spectrum helps if the light is bright, but I think that it certainly can't hurt.
So what's the downside? Well, you have to sit in front of the thing for a half hour every morning. If you're like me and you like to get up just in the nick of time to get ready to go to school, that may be a problem. Having said that, exposure to bright light first thing in the morning can help fight drowsiness. But you have to go to bed earlier.

What else? Well, light boxes are expensive. The Ott Biolight is about $300+S/H. So it's a lot harder and more expensive than just taking a pill, but if you can stick to the regimen, it's just as effective and there are no side-effects.

I would recommend this therapy before herbs or drugs. And needless to say, depressant drugs like alcohol and marijuana are just going to make it worse.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Kay O. Sweaver


member
Location: Calgary, Canada

Total posts: 2
Posted:Those of us who engage in predominantly outdoorsy pursuits, like fire spinning, lose an important part of ourselves when that "venue" is made unusable. There's snow and ice outside and its -10 degrees celcius. I don't particularly want to spin out there. It'd be an enormous pain in the ass, putting clothes on, taking them off, yatta, yatta. All that's left are glowsticks in gymnasiums...

Here's an amusing mp3 on the subject of SAD...

http://play.mp3.com/cgi-bin/play/play.cg...ember_Blahs.m3u
br>
Just try typing that!


===================================- Kay O. Sweaver

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Pele
BRONZE Member since Dec 2000

Pele

the henna lady
Location: WNY, USA

Total posts: 6193
Posted:SO who do you think suffers more, men or women?

I notice SAD mostly with my male friends, but then again 98% of my friends are male.
Spinning in the snow is really only beautiful at night, so that doesn't really help. During the day it just leaves all these marks in the snow that serve as a reminder of how much crap we really are releasing into the world by virute of spinning fire. Bleh! Black snow!


Pele
Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir
"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall
"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

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