Forums > Social Discussion > Hop Community - is it changing?

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Bubbles_
Bubbles_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: mancunian
Member Since: 25th Nov 2004
Total posts: 3383
Posted:disclaimer: ok i was going to just reply to the 'old hop heads v.s new hop heads' in social chat just going off the title, but then i realised that this may start a discussion so it would be appropriate here, i did do a search smile and couldnt find anything.

note: its been hard to word this properly and get out the points im trying to make. so please bear with me smile

'old hop heads v.s new hop heads' - and i know the original post was about the moves learnt in ages old tongue
But what i wonder is: there are so many people on hop i personally am thankful to have met and the community which i was introduced to is amazing hug I know im technically still a newbie, only being part of this community for just less than a year, but this is the point im going to raise.

Does anyone think that their may be segregation forming? im just being curious, because i for one, although met many of you, still find it hard to approach those i know especially if their with other hoppers theyve known for years. Because there are so many people now is it getting impersonal?
Now that there are larger amounts of people in this community, does everyone (although still friendly to everyone else) stick to those they met originally? i do understand that those who we've all know for longer are 'closer' or know each other better etc

The postcount has been removed to see if there is an impact on post whoring, and someone mentioned which i would have to admit to is that i look at the post count to see if the person speaking is 'credable', i.e. when making a point in disussion or giving advice, they are the ones most likely to be listened to? I know i hold back in replying to discussions or convosations because i dont want to be uninformed on the topic, or sound silly for not being able to get my point across properly, and especially if i see someone whos replyed who has been a member for a while, is well known and has a high post count.

its hard to try and get across what it is im actually trying to say. I supose the better way would be, i do find it hard to approach those ive already met or know, whether its since i first joined or someone ive met once. Is it the same with anyone else?

in basic i suppose its the following im trying to answer:

* will hop get to the stage of being such a big community that the friendlyness and community will become difficult to keep?

*will it end up as the old skool group and the newbies group?

*will the community become impersonal when theres so many people to remember?

its quiet difficult for me to get this into text out of my head so please bear with me smile im not trying to say it will be a definate a vs b
i think there may be other factors involved which may just be me personaly.

im going to stop there now lol any thoughts or opinions?


Disclaimer:im not responsible for what i say or do whether it be before,during and after drinking alcoholic substances (owned by BMVC).
Creater of Jenisms(TM)
Virginity like bubble,one prick all gone.

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Lemonkey
Lemonkey

Stalking amidst the desert, carrying an oversized scalpel...
Location: Huddersfield + Hull Uni... UK.
Member Since: 1st Aug 2005
Total posts: 1019
Posted:Written by: liquid_bubblegum
The postcount has been removed to see if there is an impact on post whoring, and someone mentioned which i would have to admit to is that i look at the post count to see if the person speaking is 'credable',



... and replaced with the Member #, an even better example for how long someone has been poi-ing/whatever.

In answer to your questions -

No - I remember when I was asked to join www.gaiaonline.com. Which is absurdly busy. They form their own little communities within threads and sub-forums.
No - new people need mentors. They'll come to the more experiencied oldies for information and advice, thus creating new friendship.
And No - same answer as for my initial No.


Willy - is bad for your health...

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:The community is always changing and evolving and often does so in circular fashion.

To adress your actual questions:
Yes, I think the friendliness and community is much harder to have in the bigger forum. There's sub-communities, but some of the overall stuff is gone or mixed. And I think its less approachable than it was in days gone by. Both older members with less time and newer members with less expirience seem to find this to be the case, for different reasons.

There's always old skool and newbie groups to some extent, but they fluctuate across time, and they're often there for some reason or another, and never absolute. And sometimes people are go thru cantankerous phases tongue wink

I don't think the community will become entirely impersonal tho. Its just too... whatever tongue


Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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house_of_mill
house_of_mill

old hand
Location: Manchester England
Member Since: 20th Jul 2004
Total posts: 896
Posted:I think what you also have to consider jen is around the world there has been and always will be thousands, millions of Jugglers its because your looking at it more now because its your interest that you realise there are so many and as you go to more High profile events(Cheers dunc) you see a more diverse array or skills that we dont have up here in Manc but we'l get there! hug

*Thats one of my favourite Nurseries over there,*

Roman, Trippie Hippie,On the way back from Play Festival

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Bubbles_
Bubbles_

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: mancunian
Member Since: 25th Nov 2004
Total posts: 3383
Posted:tongue
lol im not sure what im trying to say, i know im tired and going to go bed smile

hug cheers mill, i know what you mean, its been amazing to learn so much about/from this community, i think if anything i dont want to it to change in a bad way or to ever go away lol, cheesy smile

leminkey - i didnt actually see the members number bit, point taken
kyrian - Written by:
Yes, I think the friendliness and community is much harder to have in the bigger forum. There's sub-communities, but some of the overall stuff is gone or mixed. And I think its less approachable than it was in days gone by. Both older members with less time and newer members with less expirience seem to find this to be the case, for different reasons.

how come it took me mulitple paragraphs to try and say that lol


Disclaimer:im not responsible for what i say or do whether it be before,during and after drinking alcoholic substances (owned by BMVC).
Creater of Jenisms(TM)
Virginity like bubble,one prick all gone.

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:i'd go with Kyrian its a forum of 23000 people (is that the right number of 0's?) will never be as personal as a group of 30 people and i think an element of groups will evolve

there will be the old skool group, the newbie group and probably the post whore group

jsut ebcause differnt types of people will ineract in differnt ways and i think some people will be more approacable because they are less well known.

but in the same way my expierence of all the people ive met through this (and its not tons but it is a fair number now) is that most people will happily chat to you about anything smile

so while yes the community is changing and the dynamics of it are changeing these have always been changing as new people arrive and old people drift away

its still going to be amazing smile just in new and intersting ways


back

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Sporky
Sporky

addict
Location: Glasgow
Member Since: 25th Jul 2005
Total posts: 663
Posted:I've only been here for a few weeks but out of the 23000 members I can list about 30 people who I recognize straight away and would love to meet in person. I've met two other members, SatansUncleBob and Demonmatt, who are signed up but have never posted and hope to meet a few others in the near future (I'm going to try and make the next major event in the UK). I agree with linden's idea that the forum will evolve and become interesting in a different way but I hope that a core of 'old skool' people will remain and that at some point I'm considered 'old skool'.



I'm sure I'm not alone when I say that if you're ever planning to come up to St Andrews just PM me and I'll meet up for a spin and copius quantities of alcohol.



Edit: Plus I'm sure, if my housemates agree, you can stay on the couch...

EDITED_BY: onefinalstep (1124839343)


Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:I have no idea where st. andrews is, but i love the idea of a spin and copious amounts of alcohol, altho far less copius then i discovered in london. (there are bad things about liking the taste and everyone handing to you drinks which are too strong for them.,......)

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Sporky
Sporky

addict
Location: Glasgow
Member Since: 25th Jul 2005
Total posts: 663
Posted:St Andrews is where the Open Golf Championship was held this year and also is home to the university where prince William got his degree from. I actually got Jack Nicholas autograph on one of the new fivers even though I don't know the first thing about golf.

And as for alcohol... one of the local stores (Luvians) sells Absinthe biggrin


Have faith in what you can do and respect for what you can't

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:all things made are impermanent; in change!
we only get several dozen years to experience, appreciate what is beautiful.
(less if you fire breathe wink )
it is up to each of us to appreciate what we have while it is there.

is the HoP community changing? yes! it is folly to see otherwise.
does it still put the V in my Vegemite?

....you betcha!
:dances around and accidentally runs into wall:


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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Medusa
Medusa

veteran
Location: 8 days at Cloudbreak, 6 in Per...
Member Since: 25th Nov 2003
Total posts: 1433
Posted:I know this may cause me to get flamed but I am just speaking what I feel:

I joined here a while ago and always felt that there were cliques on this board...I know that many people don't mean it to be that way but there are certain people that just won't talk to new people....I still feel that there are certain people on here who just won't respond to some of the things that are posted.

I have also felt that there are certain members who even though they don't know me that well and have never spoken to me or responded to any of the normal threads that I may post in but in some of the more "contraversial" threads as soon as I have posted a different opinion to them I have felt that they went into attack mode...I try to avoid certain people on these boards for that reason.

Maybe I am just hyper sensitive but it is just something that has always been on my mind since I started on these boards.

Mind you I think it is probably that way on all the boards on the net with a substantial community.


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myco
myco


Location: melbourne, victoria, australia
Member Since: 2nd Nov 2004
Total posts: 2084
Posted:Written by: Lemonkey

...the Member #, an even better example for how long someone has been poi-ing/whatever.



i first found HoP one day in 2002, just looking at the lessons. if i had a bit more time on the computer that day i'd probably have registered, and not come back till last year, when i actually did register and actually did become interested in poi again. so i'd be just as (un)experienced as i am now, same post count as now, but i'd have an early reg date and member number.

it's a good thing that we're talking about these sorts of things, because it makes us conscious of how welcoming we are to others. the community is what we make of it. smile


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DeepSoulSheep
DeepSoulSheep

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Berlin
Member Since: 25th Sep 2002
Total posts: 2617
Posted:There is not and connot be old school and new school. It's all in the head! Who decides what the cut off number is?

When there's 200,000 members everyone here now will be old school, ever onward and upward...

Don't take anything on here or in the real world personally. It doesn't matter how people react to us and what we believe, but how we react to them that is important.

It's easy to get bogged down in all that stuff on board. Best thing to do is walk away and realise it's the internet....most cliques on here are people who know each other in the real world.

I don't expect someone I've never met to treat me the same way as someone I have...it's hard to remember that sometimes...

Generally people here are pretty good and being friendly anyway and that's what makes this a special place.... smile


I live in a world of infinite possibilities.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:Written by: bender

all things made are impermanent; in change!
we only get several dozen years to experience, appreciate what is beautiful.
(less if you fire breathe wink )
it is up to each of us to appreciate what we have while it is there.

is the HoP community changing? yes! it is folly to see otherwise.
does it still put the V in my Vegemite?

....you betcha!
:dances around and accidentally runs into wall:



Yeah! What he said!

(Well, except the Vegemite bit...) NUTELLA ALL THE WAY!!!


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:The community is in a constant state of flux. It has a mutating, changing, ever-shifting persona and I'm personally okay with that.

I agree that there are some cliques on the boards and whilst they may seem exclusionary, they are certainly not malicious. It's just like any social group... groups within groups.

There is no inner-circle however, and I think HOP is extremely welcoming. Sometimes you just have to make the effort before people will take notice... I'm sure all of us have experienced this when entering established scenes.

As an example, I'll talk about motorcycles. I've recently joined some riding clubs and forums, and have felt that "newbie" feeling all over again. Almost all of the established members, or 'cliques" if you will, will respond to me if I approach them, but they won't take the initiative and come to me. Why would they? It's not like they're taking applications for new friends; they're sorted in that regard. So, I pondered this for a while and without even realising it was already establishing my own little clique with other riders at the same level of newbieness. It's a peer group thing. I'm all learning how to corner and judge entry speed and am very limited in terms of my understanding and experience. Why would a very experienced rider want to discuss such things with me unless I approached them in a "please instruct me" kind of way? I have far more in common with people in the exact same situation as I am in - new rider with stars in their eyes and a lust for furthering technical aptitude and knowledge.

So yeah.... I think I'm trying to say it's a "generation" thing. It's not about exclusivity, but more about common ground.

Hope that all made sense.


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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mtbeer
mtbeer

ARRRR!
Location: Charlotte, NC, USA
Member Since: 11th Aug 2004
Total posts: 529
Posted:Yuck NUTELLA! smile

I felt the same way as you liquid_bubblegum, until I met a few of the old school spinners. They are cool people just like you. Maybe they know a bunch of tech moves or have insanely clean planes but they are spinning for the same reason as us. They just love to spin.

Keep spinning and be yourself. That's all you need.


"My skin is singed but it heals my heart and with glowing pride I'll wear my scars." -Davey Havok

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bender
still can't believe it's not butter
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Member Since: 14th Nov 2001
Total posts: 6979
Posted:hey mtbeer, you also left out that some of them prefer to talk about themselves in third person.
verily.


Laugh Often, Smile Much, Post lolcats Always

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pitchere
pitchere

Member
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Member Since: 11th Apr 2005
Total posts: 27
Posted:I'm very new here and have had a lot of trouble meeting people. I've posted a few times with no responses. Guess there aren't many poi people in my area of the world. Too bad because I enjoy learning. I can imagine you would stick to some of the first people who talk to you though, because they introduce you to the whole scene or community.

Erica


Whether you believe you can or can't you WILL be right.

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Mynci
Mynci

Macaque of all trades
Location: wombling free...
Member Since: 27th Apr 2005
Total posts: 8737
Posted:I think I'm quite lucky... I only started juggling / staff etc just over a year ago but being in southampton / bournemouth met people like strugz and 2 bags who seem to be well respected in the community.
They are a really nice guys (well except that strugz bloke... we got beef wink beerchug) and not only made me feel welcome but have taught me so much i have developed my skills quickly, I find if you actually meet these "old skoolers" they are really nice.
When I met UCoF and Mags at various Claphams they were very friendly and welcoming. But do agree it's harder to talk to people you don't know VERY well online.


A couple of balls short of a full cascade... or maybe a few cards short of a deck... we'll see how this all fans out.

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TinklePants
TinklePants

Clique Infiltrator, Cunning Linguist and Master Debator
Location: Edinburgh burgh burrrrrr
Member Since: 3rd Jul 2005
Total posts: 4217
Posted:It can be daunting trying to infiltrate the old skool barracks. ubblol
i admire every member of the HoP community for being so passionate about their favourite toys and are always willing to help newbies and not-so-newbies learn new moves.

Everyone is so laid back and happy to help it's ridiculous. At first i thought- can these people be for real?
Of course they can! hug

I love this place - I've never seen any horrible nasty posts and everyone looks out for each other. I've been posting on forums for years, on web and on mobile WAP and I've never seen anywhere so... so....(lost for words) - its heaven online!

I'm classed as nu skool obviously but I feel like I've been here forever! This this tag will dissipate when I finally get to meet some old skoolers (next year's play and falmouth maybe) and they see me for what i am - a shy welsh girl with a wicked sense of humour who learns really quick, who really isnt that shy and can talk a whole lot of sh*t before some tells her to shut the censored up!
shall I stop now?


Always use "so's your face" and "only on Tuesdays" in as many conversations possible

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Aryth
Aryth

in a beautiful daze....
Location: Liverpool, England
Member Since: 25th May 2005
Total posts: 134
Posted:Personally i think that this whole board/place is really welcoming, this is the first community thing i've ever posted on and since i started i've been felt really welcomed. Even when i've posted in some of the more serious discussions politics, religion etc... and have had a different opinion to other people noone has immidiatly launched an attack its all be like well thats your opinion here's mine this is where i think your wrong.

I guess what i'm trying to say is old or new everyone on here is dead nice as far as i know and although normally shy of meeting new people i recokon that when i do meet up with everyone (thats the plan) i'll easily be able to get on with you all and whether you've been spinning for 3 years or 3 months if you could teach me something or i could teach you something i'd be more than happy and presume that most of you feel the same.


Whatever happened to my green and pleasant land?

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flid
flid

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Warwickshire
Member Since: 27th Aug 2002
Total posts: 3136
Posted:Written by:
Does anyone think that their may be segregation forming?



I've been a member since summer 2002 and started meeting people from the boards in spring 2003. Since then I'd say that things are pretty much what they've always been. People come and go, and whilst there's more active people now, its not a significant number (the number of registered people isn't representive of how many people use the forums). You'll always get some rifts, politics and cliche groups of close friends in any community, and HoP offline as well as on is no exception. Inevitably some HoPpers will share houses, then fall out, or have relationships, then fall out, that's life. It has the knock on effect of friends of those people being forced to side, or feel uneasy about associating themselves with people who their friends have bad mouthed/called an enemy. I don't think anyone can be totally exempt from this, I've had complete bull (honestly, the 'evidence' really doesn't add up) spread about me in the past which resulted in a cliche group not talking to me anymore. It's sad, but life.

Obviously if anyone acts like a complete tit online and pisses everyone off (whether that be abusive posts, postwhoring etc), then offline they won't be off to a good start, but I don't think that's a segregation issue.


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ZeeBoo
ZeeBoo

member
Location: Melbourne
Member Since: 10th Aug 2004
Total posts: 167
Posted:I think that we all have to remember that this form of communication & type of community is very new (5years if that) so no one knows how it will develop in the future.



With over 20,000 members you could think of it as a town and look at how the social interactions within a town mirror (or not) the forum, so for example you may just say high to the guy at the end of the street but have a good old chin wag with your mate around the corner.

So by that you could infer that you will get segregation and communties within comunities forming as in life.



Also having elders to set the tone ( rolleyes ) and the rules is example of the forum copying life.



However I feel that because there is no face to face contact it breaks down the social barriers that most of us have and so we are more open to comment on a variety of subjects which is good.



We also share an interest which gives us the inital starting point and a common goal.



As to the posting count I'm as guilty as most in using it to discern whether or not someone point is valid (ouch, can't think of the right word) whereas in society you would most likely go on age or experiance.



I do think people feel they need a higher post count to feel like they have more right to belong so you inevieatably get post whoring to bump up their score & feel more popular so it will be interesting to see what happens without the post count.



Will it collaspe the community into dissarry eek start a coup spank or ..........

We will just have to wait and see I guess. wink





[sligthly fragmented due to writing whilst not let the boss catch me...]

EDITED_BY: ZeeBoo (1124884978)


Just because I'm an adult doesn't make me responsible.

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Doc Lightning
Doc Lightning

HOP Mad Doctor
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Member Since: 28th May 2001
Total posts: 13920
Posted:I know I've changed since joining HOP in May of 2001. I was still at Stanford then, aged 23. Now it's August 2005 and I'm in New York and I'm a doctor, aged 28.

That's quite a change. With all the personal changes HOPers have, it would be a bit unlikely for HOP not to change, no?

And yet we can still have Marmite/Vegemite(yuck >.<)/NUTELLAubblove wars.


-Mike )'(
Certified Mad Doctor and HoP High Priest of Nutella

"A buckuht 'n a hooze!" -Valura

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Kyrian
Dreamer
Location: York, England
Member Since: 15th Mar 2002
Total posts: 4308
Posted:Ha, god I remember that. Yeah, I was still in HS when I joined!! ..... its been a long and fun road, but i can't even remember what i was like back then. not all of it happened whilst i was on HoP tho, as time pulls me to and fro like... a something.

Keep your dream alive
Dreamin is still how the strong survive

Shalom VeAhavah

New Hampshire has a point....

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Igirisujin
Igirisujin

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: Preston
Member Since: 10th Jul 2005
Total posts: 2666
Posted:Its getting bigger to say the least, theres about 3 new hoppers joining every 12 hours it seems, check out the explosion of posts that is the introductions!

Chief adviser to the Pharaoh, in one very snazzy mutli-coloured coat

'Time goes by so slowly for those who wait...' - Whatever Happend To Baby Madonna?

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:Written by: FenixFyre

I joined here a while ago and always felt that there were cliques on this board...I know that many people don't mean it to be that way but there are certain people that just won't talk to new people....I still feel that there are certain people on here who just won't respond to some of the things that are posted.




i would say thats probably a fair point to make - there are cliques - just as any large group will have cliques. i think flash fire was right when he said more established people will **often** not go quite as out of their way for newbies as they already have their friends etc

i would say that on here if you really want to talk to someone you will probably get a responce - especailly if you PM etc - so long as its respectful and polite smile

i think a lot of people (especailly in here) have fairly strong opinions and will voice them but i would also say they dont go into attack - it may feel like that but i think i can say in all my (5 months) on here ive never seen a truely malicous post.

another problem is getting used to peoples responces - when i first joined i wandered around discussion quite a lot but lost interest when a lot of what i said was 'ignored' i think part of the problem is that as soon as a discussion is on its second page unless you have something very special to say it will be skimmed over.

dont be too worried we are nice smile but a lot fo stuff gets posted so a lot will not get direct personal responces purely because of the nature of the boards

ok i think that makes sense


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flash fire
flash fire

Sporadically Prodigal
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Member Since: 25th Jan 2001
Total posts: 2758
Posted:Written by: linden rathen

. i think flash fire was right when he said more established people will **often** not go quite as out of their way for newbies as they already have their friends etc





psst.... I'm a "she". Check my gallery for further evidence of this fact.... smile


HoP Posting Guidelines
Is it the Truth?
Is it Fair to all concerned?
Will it build Goodwill and Better Friendships?
Will it be Beneficial to all concerned?
If you can answer YES to these 4 questions then you may post a reply.

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linden rathen
linden rathen

Carpal \'Tunnel
Location: London, UK
Member Since: 2nd Mar 2005
Total posts: 6942
Posted:sorry redface

*hides*

arghh ive even commented on one of those pics

*hides*

sorry sh*t memory redface

was a miss type honest :P


back

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house_of_mill
house_of_mill

old hand
Location: Manchester England
Member Since: 20th Jul 2004
Total posts: 896
Posted:Old school, new school were all in the same school
I think the main thing is CHANGE is good, seperation i think not were all parts of tiny circles that link up all over the world to make a chain, if you follow it through and through the miles and miles of links your'l get to NZ where the poi is at the end!

Question is where are the handles!


*Thats one of my favourite Nurseries over there,*

Roman, Trippie Hippie,On the way back from Play Festival

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Skulduggery
Skulduggery

Pirate Pixie Crew Captain
Location: Wales
Member Since: 12th Aug 2004
Total posts: 8428
Posted:ditto

Well said Millhouse! hug


Feed me Chocolate!!! Feed me NOW!

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